This game was fucking retarded. I played it and it back when it came out and finished the series but this is where things went stupid. Arsenal's AI GW is also supposed to go into the infrastructure of the world to create censorship and the Patriots also used this Shell incident as a training simulation to be similar to Shadow Moses. Kojima is a terrible story teller. Creative I guess but he has no fucking idea how to piece a story together well, what should or shouldn't go in, and just figures it out as he goes along. You could tell he never planned any of this fucking series out. And I think it is pretty sad no one had the balls to say, that shit don't make sense or hey, we really don't need that shit to be so over the top if you want to tell a real story or give something emotional significance. A fat guy on roller skates? Fuck you Kojima.

@FLStyle said:

@kashif1 said:

@I_smell said:

@N7 said:

The whole incident was a cover for the S3 Program. The Solid Snake Simulation. The whole thing was a cookie-cutter reenactment of the Shadow Moses incident to turn Raiden into a soldier better than Snake. This fell through. Solidus was trying to destroy The Patriots by going the extremest route, and Ocelot was the mastermind behind it all so he could get the data on The Patriots.

Oh my goooooooooooddddd! This is like my favourite game, and my only complaint about it was always that "It's basically a carbon copy of MGS1". Knowing now that that was the point of the game (which I never noticed) is insane, and somehow makes me like this even more.

Its wierder than that. The patriots wanted to prove they could control a person in the most extreme situation possible. The most extreme situation they had on record was Sadow Moses. Now here is where it gets weird, Raiden never questioned his orders, most players never question Raiden's orders. Therefor the Patriots are not only able to control raiden but also the player. Kojima controls you.

Ahhh, the hidden depth of MGS2, too insightful for its own good. Kojima should've saved this kind of thought process for a non-MGS franchise, then it wouldn't have been buried under the nerd-rage from anti-Raiden fans.

He was just joking. Raiden questioned EVERYTHING HE POSSIBLY COULD. Because he was new to the series, and embodied players new to the game and how they would most likely be confused by everything.

I've played this game multiple times and couldn't give you a summary of what the hell happened without wikipedia. God, that game was basically plot twists and nonsense, and I love it for it.

@Sackmanjones: It did thanks, just wanted to see it from a different perspective.

@N7 said:

@FLStyle said:

@kashif1 said:

@I_smell said:

@N7 said:

The whole incident was a cover for the S3 Program. The Solid Snake Simulation. The whole thing was a cookie-cutter reenactment of the Shadow Moses incident to turn Raiden into a soldier better than Snake. This fell through. Solidus was trying to destroy The Patriots by going the extremest route, and Ocelot was the mastermind behind it all so he could get the data on The Patriots.

Oh my goooooooooooddddd! This is like my favourite game, and my only complaint about it was always that "It's basically a carbon copy of MGS1". Knowing now that that was the point of the game (which I never noticed) is insane, and somehow makes me like this even more.

Its wierder than that. The patriots wanted to prove they could control a person in the most extreme situation possible. The most extreme situation they had on record was Sadow Moses. Now here is where it gets weird, Raiden never questioned his orders, most players never question Raiden's orders. Therefor the Patriots are not only able to control raiden but also the player. Kojima controls you.

Ahhh, the hidden depth of MGS2, too insightful for its own good. Kojima should've saved this kind of thought process for a non-MGS franchise, then it wouldn't have been buried under the nerd-rage from anti-Raiden fans.

He was just joking. Raiden questioned EVERYTHING HE POSSIBLY COULD. Because he was new to the series, and embodied players new to the game and how they would most likely be confused by everything.

He was questioning the general wierdness of the events of the game. He didnt really question his orders until near the end of the game and at that point he had no choice but to do what he was told to survive.

Well prepare to be dissapointed . Metal gear Solid 3 is much much much much much worse in terms of story.

I suggest you should download the MGS Database on the PS3. It has a lot of information and can be pretty useful.

Video games are dumb

@Toms115 said:

well good luck with mgs4 because that shit is nonsensical as fuck

The whole series is pretty nonsensical

@TheHBK said:

This game was fucking retarded. I played it and it back when it came out and finished the series but this is where things went stupid. Arsenal's AI GW is also supposed to go into the infrastructure of the world to create censorship and the Patriots also used this Shell incident as a training simulation to be similar to Shadow Moses. Kojima is a terrible story teller. Creative I guess but he has no fucking idea how to piece a story together well, what should or shouldn't go in, and just figures it out as he goes along. You could tell he never planned any of this fucking series out. And I think it is pretty sad no one had the balls to say, that shit don't make sense or hey, we really don't need that shit to be so over the top if you want to tell a real story or give something emotional significance. A fat guy on roller skates? Fuck you Kojima.

I love this series and have a great nostalgia for it, but yea Kojima put very little structure into the story. You could tell he put his heart into it though.

@Juicebox said:

Well prepare to be dissapointed . Metal gear Solid 3 is much much much much much worse in terms of story.

I don't think that opinion is widely held.

@BisonHero said:

@Juicebox said:

Well prepare to be dissapointed . Metal gear Solid 3 is much much much much much worse in terms of story.

I don't think that opinion is widely held.

Metal Gear Solid 3 is more conventional. Conventionality being relative.

@Sackmanjones said:

SPOILERS OBVIOUSLY So I just beat this for the first time on the hd collection and holy shit that ending. Now I've played most of one except the very end which I read about and got the jist of it but I was hoping someone could proofread me. Ocelot believed that arsenal was a simulation to basically turn people (raiden in this case) into the solider that big boss was based off of te shadow Moses incident. But this wasn't actually true and this is where I get lost. How exactly was this a test of them using censorship? By deceiving ocelot? Overall other than a few camera/control issues I enjoyed the game and can't wait to play up to 4 again and be able to put the pieces together Thanks for the help!

I urge you watch this video when you have some free time. It helps explain/ point out some things.

As well as this essay. http://www.deltaheadtranslation.com/MGS2/DOTM_TOC.htm

Also has anyone else realized that MGS3 has the same basic story as MGS2. Just as MGs2 copied MGS1 and MGS1 copied MG2. Jack, has to face his mentor.

@I_smell said:

@N7 said:

The whole incident was a cover for the S3 Program. The Solid Snake Simulation. The whole thing was a cookie-cutter reenactment of the Shadow Moses incident to turn Raiden into a soldier better than Snake. This fell through. Solidus was trying to destroy The Patriots by going the extremest route, and Ocelot was the mastermind behind it all so he could get the data on The Patriots.

Oh my goooooooooooddddd! This is like my favourite game, and my only complaint about it was always that "It's basically a carbon copy of MGS1". Knowing now that that was the point of the game (which I never noticed) is insane, and somehow makes me like this even more.

Its wierder than that. The patriots wanted to prove they could control a person in the most extreme situation possible. The most extreme situation they had on record was Sadow Moses. Now here is where it gets weird, Raiden never questioned his orders, most players never question Raiden's orders. Therefor the Patriots are not only able to control raiden but also the player. Kojima controls you.

@SSValis said:

@Toms115 said:

well good luck with mgs4 because that shit is nonsensical as fuck

The whole series is pretty nonsensical

mgs1 and 3 are mostly pretty straightforward, but yeah, pretty ridiculous series overall.

@I_smell: for sure, i just think 1 and 3 are the least crazy in comparison to the other main entries in the series.

Even though this was my first PS2 game back in 2003, and even though I've played it about 10 times.

Some of this stuff is new to me.

And now, as far as I'm concerned, one of the best moments of MGS2.

@Nottle: "Many regard the Metal Gear Solid series as the most intelligently written game series around, if not the most intelligently written series in modern entertainment."

While nothing is explicitly wrong about that statement given how loosely defined "many" is, by choosing to preface his video with that phrase, it really puts a negative bias on the rest of the video for me.

I mean, fine, give an influential series a reasonable amount of praise in your introduction for context, but Jesus Christ, don't go around suggesting that anything is "the most intelligently written series in modern entertainment". That should be something that is incredibly hard to decide on, and tossing it out so casually makes it sound like the guy who made that video must be deciding that based on a very small pool of modern entertainment. He put in "many" as a weasel word, but that statement is so broad and ridiculous that it undermines the credibility of everything that comes after it. It's just bad rhetoric.

And as my own personal judgment, anyone who says that the Metal Gear Solid series is "the most intelligently written series in modern entertainment" has to be wildly ignorant of some of the other extremely well written series that currently exist in modern entertainment. Yes, Kojima and his writers are given more freedom in a big budget game than you usually see, so some interesting and provocative ideas have made their way in there, but acting like the MGS series is some intellectual tour de force that puts the rest of modern entertainment to shame is a bit much.