Like many fellow duders and dudettes, I've started replaying the Metal Gear games to keep up with Dan and Drew in their latest Premium members-only feature series. I just finished up Metal Gear Solid 2 the other day, beating it for maybe the second or third time in like ten years. The controls are a wee bit better, and the plot is just as zany as it always was, but something still never seemed clear to me by the end.

THE BUGS.

No, not of the game-breaking ilk. THESE ONES, SPECIFICALLY:

They are covering the walls when you first begin the Plant chapter as Raiden. You also spot one crawling out from underneath Plisken as he is taking a breather on some steps. And later, they mix with the gameplay, as you have to spray coolant on them to clear a safe path for Emma.

I just don't understand why the bugs are there at all. Is it a call back to Decoy Octopus and that corner of the cell from Metal Gear Solid? Is it explained via some CODEC call I missed?

I distinctly remember (and the internet backs me up) that they were genetically engineered or something. There's probably some weird analog with Snake, Solidus breaking free from their genetic programming.

If you can go back to them, go back and call the Colonel.

I think its hinting that Pliskin infiltrated the Big Shell from the water (since they are sea lice). The colonel explains a bit about them if you call him while looking at the bugs.

@nasar7: Wow, didn't even make that connection about Snake sneaking in underwater! I feel like that's one case where a short, mandatory call reveals that info. Otherwise, I was kind of confused about their purpose, other than bugs being bugs. Or rather, wharf roaches.

Yep, that's pretty much it. Always thought that it was a pretty neat hint.

But there are SO MANY BUGS. That's a really stupid explanation.

They were meant to clean up the oil left over from the tanker incident. They break down the oil by consuming it.

Remember when Raiden sneaks into the plant there's a bunch of guys already knocked out and a guy with a bandana riding the elevator up? Otacon is the one who came in through helicopter.

There were also holes already cut into the gate that Raiden swims through. After you first meet Vamp you can see a sea louse escape from Pliskin's person.

That's what he says, but it's a lie.

Raiden asks how he got here, Pliskin says by helicopter. Cue cockroach/lice crawling around his suit, Raiden's expression alludes to him believing his story. Looking at the bugs and calling Campbell gives you some insight of what they are. All kind of sums up to assuming Pliskin is Snake and he swam in like Raiden. It's all pretty convoluted, it's why MGS 2 annoys me.

Pretty straight forward. Don't know how that is the part of MGS2 that annoys you. Not the La Li Lu Le Lo, not Fortune's source of power, not Liquid in the arm, but a pretty calm and well set up twist.

No, I wasn't meaning that part is what annoys me, I mean the whole game is like this.

ugghhh, the damn La li lu le lo... I forgot about that. I remember being so mystified by that... I wondered if that was something from the first game(that i hadn't played at that time). What was that even about? I feel like I looked it up once and was not impressed.

If there's one thing I'm really looking forward to in terms of Drew's reaction when they hit Metal Gear Solid 2, it's the first time that Marine Corps fellow says "La Li Lu Le Lo" on the Tanker. I know I couldn't help but go, "The whaaa...?"

@super2j: It's just another name for The Patriots.

It's an untranslatable name for the Patriots - nanomachines make people use the codename instead of actually saying "Patriots". In Japanese, there is no "L" sound, so it's pronounced "Ra Ri Ru Re Ro", so not only is the name of their organization censored, it's also literally unpronounceable. It's a clever idea, however, the joke is lost in English, where it's just random gibberish.

Oh, I knew about the nanomachines making them say it and making their name basically censored, but I didn't get the unpronounceable bit.

@ghostiet: I never considered the Japanese language aspect of it. That makes it even cooler!

@ghostiet said:

When do they actually confirm that nanomachines are the thing forcing people to use this dumb codename instead of saying "Patriots"? I just remember that hanging in the air forever until they actually addressed why everyone is saying this dumb gibberish name.

@super2j: Some people in the MGS universe are unable to say "The Patriots" due to they're nanomachines, so they're forced to say La-Le-Lu-Li-Lo or whatever.

How about the purified hydrogen bomb that's mentioned, like, twice and then never comes up again?

hmmmm, they only bother me when they actually do eat your rations when you crawl among them. It still looks like a nice effect almost 13 years later.

I'm not 100% sure, but I think it was confirmed in the MGS database. I remember it being somewhat inconsistent in 2 and 4, but I'm not sure if that's not just translation convention the same way alien talk in Mass Effect works, where they just said "La Li Lu Le Lo" once to establish it in a conversation and moved on to the Patriots.

But yeah, the point of the wordplay was to have it be the laymen codename that's unpronounceable.

A mention of bugs is turning into a lengthy thread.

Metal Gear's the best.

It was a lie,as Ocelot exposed on top of arsenal near the end.

Oh man I forgot about that until now. That was dumb.

@bigboss1911: Are you sure? I don't remember that and the leading source of Metal Gear wisdom, the Metal Gear wiki, does not mention this!

@crithon: Oh man, I had no idea that could happen! Pretty neat, if brutal when low on health.

Its been covered but, yes, Snake comes in through a hole in the oil fence and Otacon choppers in with Stillman. I'm also convinced that Snake and Otacon are only friends because Snake needs something from him.

• 1. Destroy Metal Gear
• 2. Fly a helicopter

Otherwise, these two men have nothing in common. TANGENT!

@shindig: After MGS1, Snake got way into Otacon's Japanese anime collection. They've been anime bros ever since.

Until I hear Snake say, "Its like one of my Japanese Animes!" I won't believe it.

I'm playing the game for the first time (well, sort of... I played the Snake intro part 2 years ago)..im 13 hours into the Raiden part now).

I figured the bugs were there exclusively to give Raiden suspicion that Pliskin was the person who entered via the water before him. Right in one of the first calls to the Colonel Raiden says that he believes someone had already entered ahead of him. I'm not sure if he specifically references the fact that there was already a hole in the fencing, but i'm pretty sure he references the fact that a few guards were already KOd or something.

So when they very specifically show a bug crawl out from under Pliskin, it seems to confirm he is the mystery person.

Also, with the E.E. part, i just put her in a choke hold and dragged her through the bugs. lol

After seeing the ending again on Metal Gear Scanlon, I also have a thing that bugs me (ending spoiler): Why do the Patriots let Raiden and Snake go at the end? They both have detailed knowledge about the S3 plan, why would they just be allowed to leave with that information? Has this ever been addressed?

I don't think that it was ever explicitly explained why in game. I think there are several explanations though (Spoilers for future MGS games): 1. While Snake/Raiden knew about the S3 plan, the Patriots are still pretty much in control of how information flows, so its not like that information would be easily let loose on the public with the Patriots around. 2. At this point Snake would start aging at a very rapid rate; either the Patriots may have decided that Snake wouldn't be able to do much against them in that state or the Patriots may have decided they needed Snake to deal with Liquid Ocelot. 3. Raiden was actually eventually captured sometime in this period, and the Patriots used Raiden as a test subject until he was broken free. Again none of this is super explicit in the games, but that is the only way I can make sense of this.

Just a little thing on Fortune having powers at the end: I think it was a scene that was meant to show that despite Ocelot going on this rant that everything was planned by the Patriots and that free will is essentially pointless, there are in fact things that the Patriots cannot control and that human nature is not necessarily always logical or understandable. Fortune used the nanomachines in her body out of pure force of will, even though Ocelot was controlling them remotely. That is a random variable that was not accounted for, and there will be other variables that the Patriots will just not be able to understand or foresee despite thinking that they understand humans better then they understand themselves.

Snake is labeled a terrorist because of them (tanker incident) and Raiden was forced to undergo a cyborg ninja experiment after being captured by the Patriots.

@c2c said:

The better question is: why did the Patriots ever reveal ANY of that stuff to Raiden and/or Snake? Some of it got accidentally revealed through Solidus and President Johnson not giving a fuck, but GW (speaking as the Colonel and Rose) and to some extent Ocelot revealed an enormous amount of information for basically no good reason. You could make the argument that the virus was making GW screw up, but aside from the Colonel speaking gibberish for a bit, GW seemed pretty coherent as it laid out its master plan to Raiden. The Patriots basically come across as this:

I can see GW telling Raiden all that to rub it in his face that he has no choice but to follow their directions because they are so powerful. Then they outline to him why they are so powerful and why he has no choice but to do what they say. I don't think they would have told them if he hadn't found out about the patriots before hand. The A.I. even saw humanity as toys to play with.

Ocelot (and Liquid) was always a cocky bastard so I can see him gloating about the S3 plan and how he tricked everyone. In MGS4 it makes a lot of sense why he would tell Snake everything.

The part where all the S3 revelations to Raiden still seems to kinda fall apart is when you dwell on the fact that somebody programmed GW, an AI, to be a special kind of super villain petty by rubbing it in Raiden's face. Then again, with games past MGS3 you can actually start to believe that Zero is the kind of person that would totally tell a dude to program The Patriots to be that kind of petty.

I love that bugs in the context of a metal gear related question spark so much conversation.

In MGS4 it was stated that the A.I. got out of Zero's control and while it did start out with his ideals it became sentient and developed its own plans and other things.

Reading up on the Metal Gear Wiki, it reminded me that it is Raiden that rescues Sunny from the Patriots and gives her to Snake and Otacon, and it's Sunny who programs the virus that shuts down the Patriots. So in that sense, not killing Raiden at the end of 2 directly leads to their end.

The answer to the bug question has been staring us in the face this entire time. It's Metal Gear, right? And what's always the answer when you have a question about Metal Gear?

It's so obvious now.

They're giant Nano-machines! Wait, would that make them kilo-machines? Mega-machines?

Yeah there was a clear pretty clear explanation for those. I didn't question it to much.

Nanomachines.

At least the MGS series is semi-consistent with its narrative and usually leaves a breadcrumb trail towards its next objective/controversy.

I would love for someone to try and make sense of Kingdom Hearts. I still don't know what it means or what the hell is going on.