Dangit, Hideo... (Mad spoilers for MGS in general)

#1 Posted by MikkaQ (10317 posts) -

Okay, as much as I love this game, the story, the addictive pokemon-like nature of kidnapping troops... I now have a few story related problems. This game's plot simply breaks the MGS story, and punctures holes in the plot the size of my fist. I'm not really angry about it, but it's bothered me because of how well connected the story of all the other games seemed at that point. Especially if your point of reference is that official MGS database they have on the PS3. 
 
And, really... all of it could have been avoided if snake didn't call his base Outer Heaven. But he did. According to the database, it was founded in the 90s (instead of the 70s, here) by Big Boss, and in South Africa, not the caribbean sea. Kinda wierd, but I could roll with it. Yet another problem though is when the Database mentions he formed FOXHOUND with the CIA, and had been leading it in some form or another till the 90s. I thought this whole game was about how he's turned his back on the government for making him do what he did, and whatnot. Just a lot of things like that, that don't really add up at all. 
 
Whatever, it's not a big deal, it's just that MGS 4 wrapped everything up so tightly, that inevitably any sequel would have messed a lot of things up. Oh well. Maybe it's better that MGS continually confuses everybody, and remains a mystery. More fun that way hahah.

#2 Posted by KaosAngel (13765 posts) -

It's Kojima, he can retcon the entire series and no one would care.  Just let it go, and take in the new retcon.  >.>

#3 Posted by MooseyMcMan (11302 posts) -

You're asking too many questions. After Ocelot's mind was taken over by Liquid (and then it turned out it wasn't), I just stopped trying to make sense of it.  
  
However, I too was a little miffed at Outer Heaven being a sea base, because in the original game Outer Heaven is clearly on land. However, it's possible that in the 20-ish years between Peace Walker and Metal Gear they moved.  
 
And just wait until Rising comes out. I'm sure that will find tons of new ways to mess up the continuity. 

Moderator
#4 Posted by Emilio (3380 posts) -

ahahahahahaha MGS story making sense... omfg hahahaha.... hahahaha ohhh boy.... hahahahaha 
 
Ah, thank you for this.

#5 Posted by MikkaQ (10317 posts) -
@KaosAngel: I like the newer continuity better anyway, Big Boss is less of a villain. He was still kindof a dick in the timeline anything past like Snake Eater. 
 
@MooseyMcMan: Yeah, I know I am. But I don't feel like I've really beaten a game till I get the damn plot. This series has been bothering me since 1998. Like I can even get why Big Boss was hostile to Snake at the end. He was just a CIA dog at that point... but then Big Boss was too. ARGHGHHGBRAINMELTING. Stopping thought processes now.  
 
 @Emilio:  Yeah, funny. But seriously, the MGS database actually made sense of the entire plot. I think 90% of the confusing elements of the plot is because Kojima named everything the same, or similarly, even when they have no connection. (Like Fox Unit, and FOXHOUND, or the million versions of Metal Gear that have nothing to do with each other, or the fact that there no less than 4 characters named Snake in that series.) 
#6 Posted by KaosAngel (13765 posts) -
@XII_Sniper: Solid Snake, Liquid Snake, Solidus Snake, and Naked Snake.   
 
Simple!  :P
#7 Posted by Zhen_88 (4 posts) -

I have to disagree on this one.  
 
It could very well be another Outer Heaven that was made in Zanzibar Land.   
And all the Metal Gear's had other names attached : Rex, Ray, Arsenal Gear, Metal Gear D, etc.  
The important thing to remember is that Peace Walker is the turning point for Big Boss, so there is still story left to tell.  
Plus ******SPOILER ALERT!!!******  At the end of PW, he does save the U.S. from starting a Nuclear War, making friends with the brass again. Who's to say he won't use that in the future to help out his own agenda. He took the word of the KGB for crying out loud! 

#8 Posted by MikkaQ (10317 posts) -
@Zhen_88:  True, I accept that they could have rebuilt.
 But the very reason the US gets Solid Snake to attack Outer Heaven is because they have a nuclear-equipped Metal Gear, which is exactly what you get in Peace Walker. And it was considered a secret that Big Boss is the leader of MSF, and that his main "public" (well to the CIA anyway) image was running FOXHOUND. I'd like to see exactly how the hell that happened.  
 
Other wierd-ass thing is that it's said Big Boss founded his army with the Philosopher's legacy. Blaaah. Confusion. 
#9 Posted by Hitchenson (4682 posts) -
#10 Posted by MikkaQ (10317 posts) -
@Hitchenson:  I'm calling it, metal gear rising to include midichlorians. 
#11 Edited by TwoOneFive (9459 posts) -
@Zhen_88 said:

" I have to disagree on this one.    It could very well be another Outer Heaven that was made in Zanzibar Land.   And all the Metal Gear's had other names attached : Rex, Ray, Arsenal Gear, Metal Gear D, etc.  The important thing to remember is that Peace Walker is the turning point for Big Boss, so there is still story left to tell.  Plus ******SPOILER ALERT!!!******  At the end of PW, he does save the U.S. from starting a Nuclear War, making friends with the brass again. Who's to say he won't use that in the future to help out his own agenda. He took the word of the KGB for crying out loud!  "

i was thinking this as well.  
i think it all still makes mostly sense.  
 
only thing is that we can almost bet the RISING does nothing but confuse us even more... 
 
i cant wait to get my hands on that funky title. 
#12 Posted by ryanwho (12082 posts) -

Didn't think it was possible to break the story. Really, something happened to throw off the gay immortal vampire/ mind controlling arm/ ninja cyborg/ Im dead Im alive Im dead timeline?

#13 Posted by JeffGoldblum (3707 posts) -

Well it's been proven that only Leigh understands Kojima. Maybe you should ask her to clear things up for you.

#14 Posted by FLStyle (4768 posts) -
@XII_Sniper said:
" Okay, as much as I love this game, the story, the addictive pokemon-like nature of kidnapping troops... I now have a few story related problems. This game's plot simply breaks the MGS story, and punctures holes in the plot the size of my fist. I'm not really angry about it, but it's bothered me because of how well connected the story of all the other games seemed at that point. Especially if your point of reference is that official MGS database they have on the PS3.  And, really... all of it could have been avoided if snake didn't call his base Outer Heaven. But he did. According to the database, it was founded in the 90s (instead of the 70s, here) by Big Boss, and in South Africa, not the caribbean sea. Kinda wierd, but I could roll with it. Yet another problem though is when the Database mentions he formed FOXHOUND with the CIA, and had been leading it in some form or another till the 90s. I thought this whole game was about how he's turned his back on the government for making him do what he did, and whatnot. Just a lot of things like that, that don't really add up at all.  Whatever, it's not a big deal, it's just that MGS 4 wrapped everything up so tightly, that inevitably any sequel would have messed a lot of things up. Oh well. Maybe it's better that MGS continually confuses everybody, and remains a mystery. More fun that way hahah. "
Big Boss was referring to Mother Base as an ideology of Outer Heaven. As Liquid and Liquid Ocelot do about their respective bases in MGS1 and MGS4. There is only one Outer Heaven base and that's as you stated, in South Africa that you infiltrate in Metal Gear 1. It's been common knowledge since Metal Gear 1 that Big Boss returned to the USA to form FOXHOUND. Otherwise how could you work the angle of the big surprise that it was Snake's commander Big Boss was the one in charge and the final boss of Outer Heaven? How else could BB keep it a secret that he was in charge of Outer Heaven from Zero? If Zero had known, FOXHOUND would've never been in charge of getting rid of Outer Heaven, FOXHOUND would've been declared enemies of the USA on the spot.
 
As far as I'm concerned the story makes perfect sense and doesn't tread on the MGS history at all.
#15 Posted by sate2801 (345 posts) -

I think Kojima's probably going to remake MG sometime later
all things introduced in peace walker makes sense in terms of the MGS timeline
but it's still hard to see how BigBoss in PW transit into the BigBoss in MG

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