"From FOX, two phantoms were born"

#1 Posted by Mixwizzard (83 posts) -

Origin story for Snake & Liquid, anyone?

#2 Edited by N7 (3594 posts) -

Snake and Liquid don't need an origin story. Most of Snake's story is known, while Liquid is the mysterious one. What we do know is: He was British SAS, captured as a POW during the Gulf War. After that, he went AWOL and was hellbent on taking down the Patriots(Que MGS1). In Peace Walker, they wanted to include a bit with Liquid, to show us exactly how this happened, but we never got to see that. So it's my thought process that we'll see it in this game.

This is most likely the story of how Big Boss and Zero fell out, hence the name "Ground Zeroes". In MGS1, Big Boss is referred to as the worlds greatest mercenary. We haven't seen that yet. We've seen his rise to Big Boss in MGS3. His rise to private military contracts in Portable Ops(Or rather the idea, but disregard Portable Ops, that game was just awful). The rise of Outer Heaven in Peace Walker, and now the fallout between him and Zero, which causes him to become the worlds greatest mercenary leading the worlds greatest PMC: Outer Heaven.

I'm excited for the story implications here. In MG1 and MG2, Big Boss was a "terrorist" who used extreme methods such as children soldiers and other dastardly things. MGS4 tells us that, no, Big Boss wasn't actually as evil as he appeared to be. He was pushed too far by Zero, and faced with the threat of The Patriots of basically taking over the world, so he did what he had to do to stop them. But, it would be interesting to see it as it happens. To see Big Boss get pushed over that mental edge for the last time. To see him train Sniper Wolf in the art of sniping and Solid Snake in CQC.

The implications of this game are severe and we don't even know the plot. It's easy to lose yourself in speculation. It's also exciting to look forward to something again.

EDIT: Also, the reasons Snake and Liquid don't need an origin story is because they weren't really close before MGS1. So, they knew of each other, they just didn't really do anything about it.

#3 Posted by Hailinel (25179 posts) -

It would be interesting if Ground Zeroes covers the Les Enfants Terribles project in any capacity. One of the things that I'm personally most curious about is Para-Medic, who according to MGS4, apparently lost her marbles at some point and was basically the scientist in charge of it and and the exoskeletal experiments that resulted in Gray Fox becoming the Cyborg Ninja. I'd be disappointed if that wasn't explained in this new game.

#4 Posted by Harpell (174 posts) -

Yeah, this is likely to tell the story of Big Boss going against the Zero and the Patriots. I doubt this will have much to do with Solid or Liquid, aside from a cameo at best.

#5 Posted by Sarge506 (87 posts) -

Given the use of military vehicles names (and nicknames) being used as character names in previous MGS games, I wonder if the 2 phantoms are characters named so after the F4 Phantom.

A Phantom is also an apparition, illusion, or something ghostly. Some new enemy bosses?

#6 Posted by falserelic (5463 posts) -

The story in the mgs series always threw me through a loop. If its not one thing then its another. There's always some type of conspiracy going on.

#7 Posted by coakroach (2492 posts) -

It tells the exciting origin story of Decoy Octopus

#8 Edited by _Soki_ (101 posts) -

@Hailinel: I think going into the Les Enfants Terribles and Para-Medic stories in Ground Zero would be an awesome idea, at least go into them a little bit.

#9 Edited by BoOzak (964 posts) -

Knowing Kojima you'll probably play as a dog or something... still looking foward to it ;p

#10 Posted by AuthenticM (3759 posts) -

I think that phrase refers to Big Boss and Zero. I expect their feud to be explored in greater depth. I'd also like to see more of both Para-Medic and Sigint. They weren't in neither Portable Ops nor Peace Walker; as founding members of The Patriots, along with Big Boss and Zero, they are very important characters to the Metal Gear lore. Seeing more of them would do them justice. As Hailinel said, I want to see Para-Medic change from the reserved and gentle lady that she was in Snake Eater to the mad scientist that Naomi says she was. I'd also like to see both Naomi and Frank Yaeger's origin story. I want to see Frank kill Naomi's parents and then take her under his wing to atone for what he's done.

So much potential ! I cannot wait.

#11 Posted by RenMcKormack (1074 posts) -

I want to put a post on Craigslist where asking form someone to play the metal gear games in front of me while i watch. I love all the ancillary stuff about MG and the wild ass story and cut-scenes and this new thing does not disappoint. that said the games, particularly the early ones, were super unforgiving and kind of clunky. Anyway, anyone into this...no eye contact of course.

#12 Edited by mordukai (7157 posts) -

@Hailinel said:

It would be interesting if Ground Zeroes covers the Les Enfants Terribles project in any capacity. One of the things that I'm personally most curious about is Para-Medic, who according to MGS4, apparently lost her marbles at some point and was basically the scientist in charge of it and and the exoskeletal experiments that resulted in Gray Fox becoming the Cyborg Ninja. I'd be disappointed if that wasn't explained in this new game.

I remember reading an article on it by a guy who apparently predicted with very fine details the plot for GTA 4 and some other game. He predicted that not only will it cover the les Enfants Terribles but it will also feature Sneak as a child. I'll try to find it again.

EDIT: The articale I talked about was feature on PSM3 and was written by a guy named Dan Dawkins.

#13 Posted by N7 (3594 posts) -

@mordukai said:

@Hailinel said:

It would be interesting if Ground Zeroes covers the Les Enfants Terribles project in any capacity. One of the things that I'm personally most curious about is Para-Medic, who according to MGS4, apparently lost her marbles at some point and was basically the scientist in charge of it and and the exoskeletal experiments that resulted in Gray Fox becoming the Cyborg Ninja. I'd be disappointed if that wasn't explained in this new game.

I remember reading an article on it by a guy who apparently predicted with very fine details the plot for GTA 4 and some other game. He predicted that not only will it cover the les Enfants Terribles but it will also feature Sneak as a child. I'll try to find it again.

EDIT: The articale I talked about was feature on PSM3 and was written by a guy named Dan Dawkins.

There's a theory that "Ground Zeroes" means Outer Heaven and Zanzibar. If that's the case, we'll see him and Liquid as children, training them, and then eventually being killed twice by Solid Snake.

#14 Posted by JasonR86 (9742 posts) -

Wouldn't the origin story for snake and liquid be big boss?

Online
#15 Posted by HellBrendy (994 posts) -

@JasonR86 said:

Wouldn't the origin story for snake and liquid be big boss?

Close Quarter Sexing.

#16 Posted by tallTuck94 (553 posts) -

I was so ready to be done with everything Metal Gear after revengence but now I have have to play through every game to quell my excitement.

This will cover in some way the Les Enfants Terribles or has that happen already in the timeline? I'm guessing this is after Peace Walker.

#17 Posted by theveej (839 posts) -

I hope its not just a prequel. I think Big Boss's era is fairly well covered with MGS3 + portable ops + peace walker. If there was a prequel I would have loved to see WWII MGS game with The Boss and Cobra unit and having naked snake being trained by the Boss. I hope this game involves some stuff in the present with old snake, there is only so much you can do story wise with Big Boss, I personally don't need every single event of his life to be spelled out for me.

#18 Posted by SortedeVaras (111 posts) -

Prequel staring Liquid would be epic, walking around shirtless, fist fighting fools on top of tall structures, yelling a lot.

#19 Posted by Mixwizzard (83 posts) -

@N7 said:

Snake and Liquid don't need an origin story. Most of Snake's story is known, while Liquid is the mysterious one. What we do know is: He was British SAS, captured as a POW during the Gulf War. After that, he went AWOL and was hellbent on taking down the Patriots(Que MGS1). In Peace Walker, they wanted to include a bit with Liquid, to show us exactly how this happened, but we never got to see that. So it's my thought process that we'll see it in this game.

This is most likely the story of how Big Boss and Zero fell out, hence the name "Ground Zeroes". In MGS1, Big Boss is referred to as the worlds greatest mercenary. We haven't seen that yet. We've seen his rise to Big Boss in MGS3. His rise to private military contracts in Portable Ops(Or rather the idea, but disregard Portable Ops, that game was just awful). The rise of Outer Heaven in Peace Walker, and now the fallout between him and Zero, which causes him to become the worlds greatest mercenary leading the worlds greatest PMC: Outer Heaven.

I'm excited for the story implications here. In MG1 and MG2, Big Boss was a "terrorist" who used extreme methods such as children soldiers and other dastardly things. MGS4 tells us that, no, Big Boss wasn't actually as evil as he appeared to be. He was pushed too far by Zero, and faced with the threat of The Patriots of basically taking over the world, so he did what he had to do to stop them. But, it would be interesting to see it as it happens. To see Big Boss get pushed over that mental edge for the last time. To see him train Sniper Wolf in the art of sniping and Solid Snake in CQC.

The implications of this game are severe and we don't even know the plot. It's easy to lose yourself in speculation. It's also exciting to look forward to something again.

EDIT: Also, the reasons Snake and Liquid don't need an origin story is because they weren't really close before MGS1. So, they knew of each other, they just didn't really do anything about it.

Thats all true. I meant that the game might end up following Solid/Liquids creation. But will probably have Big Boss as central character. Kojima has said he still wants to follow Snake, despite having him die sometime after 4. Hopefully that's more of a prequel thing rather than retconing and making it a little more convoluted than the timeline already is.

#20 Edited by sate2801 (345 posts) -

maybe it simply means outer heaven and this new XOF thing?

boss came from FOX and established outer heaven, and this XOF stuffs probably have guys from FOX or even be a re-organized FOX?

#21 Posted by Nottle (1917 posts) -

@coakroach said:

It tells the exciting origin story of Decoy Octopus

You jest but what if you play the entire game playing as Big Boss then right at the end BAM he's Decoy Octopus.

#22 Posted by DocHaus (1349 posts) -

I predict the epilogue of this game will be Hideo Kojima begging the audience to please let him make a non-Metal Gear game because Konami representatives keep tasering him every time he tries to propose a brand new story, and he's running out of ways to retcon the MGS universe. Then Kojima will break down in tears as the credits roll.

#23 Edited by Oni (2104 posts) -

Crazy idea maybe, but since this is Kojima we're talking about: is it possible that this game will sort of combine MG1 and MG2's stories into a new package, retconning the old games and being the 'true' bridge between PW and MGS1? If we look at MG1 and 2 as the origins, or 'ground zeroes', the title makes sense, and since MG1+2 are so old and unsophisticated at this point, remaking them to truly tie in with the rest of the series would be possible. Maybe there will be a change in perspectives between Big Boss and Snake, or we'll see it all from BB's perspective.

Also is the kid in the trailer Raiden? I don't remember much of his specific backstory besides him being raised as a child soldier. And I have not played PW.

#24 Posted by Hailinel (25179 posts) -

@Oni said:

Crazy idea maybe, but since this is Kojima we're talking about: is it possible that this game will sort of combine MG1 and MG2's stories into a new package, retconning the old games and being the 'true' bridge between PW and MGS1? If we look at MG1 and 2 as the origins, or 'ground zeroes', the title makes sense, and since MG1+2 are so old and unsophisticated at this point, remaking them to truly tie in with the rest of the series would be possible. Maybe there will be a change in perspectives between Big Boss and Snake, or we'll see it all from BB's perspective.

Also is the kid in the trailer Raiden? I don't remember much of his specific backstory besides him being raised as a child soldier. And I have not played PW.

It's not going to overwrite the original Metal Gear or Metal Gear 2.

#25 Edited by Yummylee (22041 posts) -

@Oni said:

Crazy idea maybe, but since this is Kojima we're talking about: is it possible that this game will sort of combine MG1 and MG2's stories into a new package, retconning the old games and being the 'true' bridge between PW and MGS1? If we look at MG1 and 2 as the origins, or 'ground zeroes', the title makes sense, and since MG1+2 are so old and unsophisticated at this point, remaking them to truly tie in with the rest of the series would be possible. Maybe there will be a change in perspectives between Big Boss and Snake, or we'll see it all from BB's perspective.

Also is the kid in the trailer Raiden? I don't remember much of his specific backstory besides him being raised as a child soldier. And I have not played PW.

I think those stories will be saved for MGS5. Ground Zeroes is most likely here to tell the story of Major Zero and Big Boss falling out and when he abandons the Patriots... or the official conception of the Patriots. I haven't played Peace Walker either (OK, I've actually played like an hour) so I'm not exactly up to date about which pieces of MGS history have been adapted into a game and which haven't.

Also no the kid is called Chico, another character from Peace Walker. I really oughta play Peace Walker... but from what i have played, i wasn't into the stealth gameplay all that much. I mean you can't even go prone! Maybe once I can conform to how it plays, which is evidently not like your ordinary MGS game, I'll learn to enjoy it more.

#26 Posted by Sploder (917 posts) -

What I want to know is what happened to Militaires Sans Frontieres after Peace Walker, I built that big awesome base and shit and it's never mentioned in the other games (and yeah I realise PW is the latest game in the franchise), is it what they refer to as Outer Heaven?

#27 Posted by SoldierG654342 (1783 posts) -

@Nottle said:

@coakroach said:

It tells the exciting origin story of Decoy Octopus

You jest but what if you play the entire game playing as Big Boss then right at the end BAM he's Decoy Octopus.

Then that would be the best game.

#28 Posted by Yummylee (22041 posts) -

@Sploder said:

What I want to know is what happened to Militaires Sans Frontieres after Peace Walker, I built that big awesome base and shit and it's never mentioned in the other games (and yeah I realise PW is the latest game in the franchise), is it what they refer to as Outer Heaven?

I think MSF is the precursor to Outer Heaven.

#29 Edited by Nottle (1917 posts) -

@SoldierG654342 said:

@Nottle said:

@coakroach said:

It tells the exciting origin story of Decoy Octopus

You jest but what if you play the entire game playing as Big Boss then right at the end BAM he's Decoy Octopus.

Then that would be the best game.

Then decoy octopus puts on a Raiden mask just to piss everyone off and his CO tells him to take off that ridiculous thing.

#30 Posted by krazy_kyle (715 posts) -

Was that Hiroshima victim looking guy not Colonel Volgin?

#31 Posted by MikkaQ (10317 posts) -

I think the "From FOX, two phantoms were born" probably refers to Big Boss and Zero, this is probably going to be the full story of how the patriots formed, and how their rivalry started.

#32 Posted by Sploder (917 posts) -
@Yummylee said:

@Sploder said:

What I want to know is what happened to Militaires Sans Frontieres after Peace Walker, I built that big awesome base and shit and it's never mentioned in the other games (and yeah I realise PW is the latest game in the franchise), is it what they refer to as Outer Heaven?

I think MSF is the precursor to Outer Heaven.

That's cool, I hope they show some of that transition in this game.
#33 Posted by DocHaus (1349 posts) -

@Yummylee: It's a bit grind-y to get to the real ending and the areas are definitely smaller what with the game being originally designed for PSP. Even so if you love MGS you'll love Peace Walker.

#34 Posted by SortedeVaras (111 posts) -

@sate2801 said:

maybe it simply means outer heaven and this new XOF thing?

boss came from FOX and established outer heaven, and this XOF stuffs probably have guys from FOX or even be a re-organized FOX?

I took it to mean Outer Heaven from FOX and the Patriots from XOF.

#35 Posted by Zaccheus (1797 posts) -

@RenMcKormack said:

I want to put a post on Craigslist where asking form someone to play the metal gear games in front of me while i watch. I love all the ancillary stuff about MG and the wild ass story and cut-scenes and this new thing does not disappoint. that said the games, particularly the early ones, were super unforgiving and kind of clunky. Anyway, anyone into this...no eye contact of course.

Youtube, have you heard about it? :>

#36 Posted by Lydian_Sel (2488 posts) -

@RenMcKormack said:

I want to put a post on Craigslist where asking form someone to play the metal gear games in front of me while i watch. I love all the ancillary stuff about MG and the wild ass story and cut-scenes and this new thing does not disappoint. that said the games, particularly the early ones, were super unforgiving and kind of clunky. Anyway, anyone into this...no eye contact of course.

I just started playing MGS4, my first ever Kojima game, for pretty much the same reason. I'd advise just looking it all up on youtube. The story stuff is interesting but I really dislike all of the gameplay.

#37 Edited by Quarters (1748 posts) -

The game takes place after LET, so they won't directly cover that, unless there are flashbacks. They might talk about it though, given that LET is what caused the divide between Zero and BB. Like others have said, this seems like it will be about BB vs. Zero. Makes sense, since they finally brought Zero up at the end of Peace Walker.

#38 Posted by iGooner7 (136 posts) -

Big Boss + Major Zero = "From FOX, two phantoms were born"

Ground Zeroes is taking place a year or two after Peace Walker!

Saw Chico? He didnt change that much from Peace Walker, and this what made me say the GZ's is taking place a year or two from PW

At the end of Peace Walker they brought up Zero, which makes sense to what i am saying.

Now about that burned guy who said to Chico: "Say hello to your boss" which he means the Big Boss

He could be a new character which i dont think and he could be Volgin and thats what I really think.

Cause guys if you remember at the end of Volgin's fight he got hit by a lightning which makes sense that this guy is him.

At the end, thats what i think and it shouldn't be true but thats what makes sense to me. But with Kojima, there's no sense at all he likes mind games obviously.

Cheers!

#39 Edited by Dixego (386 posts) -

This edit will also create new pages on Giant Bomb for:

Beware, you are proposing to add brand new pages to the wiki along with your edits. Make sure this is what you intended. This will likely increase the time it takes for your changes to go live.

Comment and Save

Until you earn 1000 points all your submissions need to be vetted by other Giant Bomb users. This process takes no more than a few hours and we'll send you an email once approved.