Trailer from Kojima's PAX Prime 2012 panel

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#151 Posted by N7 (3570 posts) -

@jakob187 said:

HEY, LOOK! IT'S A NEW ENGINE SHOWN OFF ONLY THROUGH CINEMATICS!

-_______-

Putting my general "meh" feeling for the entirety of the MGS franchise (except 3, which was pretty good), I hate it when developers/publishers show off a new engine with goddamn cinematics. Watch Dogs was a much better example of showing off an engine because it was full-on GAMEPLAY! I want to see what the engine can do in a real gameplay situation.

Then again, this IS a Metal Gear Solid game...which means it's 25 hours of cinematics and 30 minutes of gameplay, right? Seems appropriate, I guess.

Anyways, y'all can get back to your fanboy pants-pissing. I'm done shitting on the parade.

It's all real time though. And they did show gameplay.

#152 Posted by JasonR86 (9381 posts) -

@AhmadMetallic said:

@AuthenticM said:

@realph said:

Looks incredible! Glad to have Big Boss back. I do think a couple outlets exaggerated on the graphics though. I mean, they're great, but I wouldn't say they're next-gen after seeing 1313. I also think Beyond might look better than this.

The graphics are not next-gen. It's running on a PC speced similarly to the PS3 and 360. That's what's making it impressive.

You really believe the PC they're using to show this stunning game is specced similarly to the PS3 and 360? 5-7 year old RAM, CPU and GPU? Then why not use a PS3/360 to show it?

Clearly they're pulling the same old trick that was used for Battlefield 3, Watch_Dogs and other next-gen-looking games: Run it on a PC to make it look real nice and emphasize on the fact that it's a console game for current gen consoles, which is an indirect way of making people think the console versions will look as good, and they do believe it, hence the hype in this thread.

Why would they bother? That strategy will inevitably fall apart and lead to cynicism. So what's the point? Hype doesn't necessarily equate to sales.

#153 Posted by StarvingGamer (7581 posts) -

@cannonballBAM: According the to 8-4 Play podcast the entire trailer is being rendered in real-time.

#154 Posted by Nikzilla90 (20 posts) -

@AhmadMetallic said:

@AuthenticM said:

@realph said:

Looks incredible! Glad to have Big Boss back. I do think a couple outlets exaggerated on the graphics though. I mean, they're great, but I wouldn't say they're next-gen after seeing 1313. I also think Beyond might look better than this.

The graphics are not next-gen. It's running on a PC speced similarly to the PS3 and 360. That's what's making it impressive.

You really believe the PC they're using to show this stunning game is specced similarly to the PS3 and 360? 5-7 year old RAM, CPU and GPU? Then why not use a PS3/360 to show it?

Clearly they're pulling the same old trick that was used for Battlefield 3, Watch_Dogs and other next-gen-looking games: Run it on a PC to make it look real nice and emphasize on the fact that it's a console game for current gen consoles, which is an indirect way of making people think the console versions will look as good, and they do believe it, hence the hype in this thread.

All the info from Kojima says exactly that, this is running on a PC similar to PS3 (and ergo X360). You don't make games. You don't know what the new FOX engine can do. There was no PC platform logo at the end, only PS3/X360 - using a debug press demo on PC is very common for PS3/X360 games since ALL GAMES ARE MADE USING PCs so until proven otherwise you people need to stop saying "NOT CURRENT GEN HERPDERP I KNOW MORE THAN DEVS CONTRADICTING ME HERPDERP".

#155 Posted by N7 (3570 posts) -

@StarvingGamer said:

@cannonballBAM: According the to 8-4 Play podcast the entire trailer is being rendered in real-time.

All Metal Gear Solid games have real-time cutscenes. MGS3, your camo and facepaint change how you look no matter what. In MGS4, you can actually change octo-camo back to default by shaking the controller.

#156 Posted by Milkman (16232 posts) -
@FilipHolm said:

@Milkman said:

What I'm about to say is probably going to make a lot of people very angry but... More like MGS 4, less like MGS 3 please.

I actually agree on some level. The directing and gameplay in MGS4 was superior in my opinion (and yes I like the 90 minute cut-scenes). However, MGS3 has to me the best atmosphere and most interesting setting. So a mix of the two would be kind of a good idea.

@Nottle said:

@Milkman said:

What I'm about to say is probably going to make a lot of people very angry but... More like MGS 4, less like MGS 3 please.

It really depends on what you mean by that. MGS4 had better controls than the rest of the series and some interesting mechanics, but I think it was lacking in terms of its environment and what they did with some of the characters. Compared to the jungles of Russia, MGS4 doesn't hold up.

I'm talking from a solely gameplay perspective. I agree that the setting of MGS 3 is much more interesting.
#157 Posted by Sooty (8082 posts) -

I just hope it's better than 4. Octocamo was a shit system.

#158 Posted by Nottle (1912 posts) -

@Milkman said:

@FilipHolm said:

@Milkman said:

What I'm about to say is probably going to make a lot of people very angry but... More like MGS 4, less like MGS 3 please.

I actually agree on some level. The directing and gameplay in MGS4 was superior in my opinion (and yes I like the 90 minute cut-scenes). However, MGS3 has to me the best atmosphere and most interesting setting. So a mix of the two would be kind of a good idea.

@Nottle said:

@Milkman said:

What I'm about to say is probably going to make a lot of people very angry but... More like MGS 4, less like MGS 3 please.

It really depends on what you mean by that. MGS4 had better controls than the rest of the series and some interesting mechanics, but I think it was lacking in terms of its environment and what they did with some of the characters. Compared to the jungles of Russia, MGS4 doesn't hold up.

I'm talking from a solely gameplay perspective. I agree that the setting of MGS 3 is much more interesting.

Ok then, I don't think you'd find many people that like to aim with R1 + the left stick and shoot with square or have a camera that is always fixed in somewhat inconvenient positions. MGS 4 gave you a better CQC system and you could only use it effectively for two acts which was kind of lame.

#159 Posted by Mixwizzard (83 posts) -

Holy balls.

#160 Edited by PenguinDust (12414 posts) -

I've never played an MGS game and I always feel like I'm missing most of the cool references whenever I see a trailer. I always tell myself, this will be the one that gets me into the franchise, but I never take the plunge. I watched this one and thought, wow that looks amazing. I wondered how long it would be before we saw games looking like this on home consoles and then the transition happened toward the end. I'm not convinced this is the PS3/360 version, but I could see it running off the specs for 2013's to-be-announced next gen consoles. Still, if this is what we have in store for us late next year, I am totally excited. This trailer has me sold for now.

#161 Posted by Nottle (1912 posts) -

@PenguinDust: You should probably pick up some form of MGS1 and the HD collection sometime. At that point you'd own a majority of the franchise. PLUS your avatar is PenPen, so you'll probably like it, Metal Gear has a lot of robots and characters with tragic backstories.

#162 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (811 posts) -
@Nottle said:

@PenguinDust: You should probably pick up some form of MGS1 and the HD collection sometime. At that point you'd own a majority of the franchise. PLUS your avatar is PenPen, so you'll probably like it, Metal Gear has a lot of robots and characters with tragic backstories.

Yea,you really should check out the other games first, because I could see you not having a clue when something is referenced and you'd end up missing out  
#163 Posted by mrpandaman (836 posts) -

@Nikzilla90 said:

@AhmadMetallic said:

@AuthenticM said:

@realph said:

Looks incredible! Glad to have Big Boss back. I do think a couple outlets exaggerated on the graphics though. I mean, they're great, but I wouldn't say they're next-gen after seeing 1313. I also think Beyond might look better than this.

The graphics are not next-gen. It's running on a PC speced similarly to the PS3 and 360. That's what's making it impressive.

You really believe the PC they're using to show this stunning game is specced similarly to the PS3 and 360? 5-7 year old RAM, CPU and GPU? Then why not use a PS3/360 to show it?

Clearly they're pulling the same old trick that was used for Battlefield 3, Watch_Dogs and other next-gen-looking games: Run it on a PC to make it look real nice and emphasize on the fact that it's a console game for current gen consoles, which is an indirect way of making people think the console versions will look as good, and they do believe it, hence the hype in this thread.

All the info from Kojima says exactly that, this is running on a PC similar to PS3 (and ergo X360). You don't make games. You don't know what the new FOX engine can do. There was no PC platform logo at the end, only PS3/X360 - using a debug press demo on PC is very common for PS3/X360 games since ALL GAMES ARE MADE USING PCs so until proven otherwise you people need to stop saying "NOT CURRENT GEN HERPDERP I KNOW MORE THAN DEVS CONTRADICTING ME HERPDERP".

I was going to say the same as dickish way :p

Also, other than that, it's pretty common to run a demo for a third party published game on a PC, nowadays, unless Sony or MS paid them to show it on a 360 or PS3 or if it is a console exclusive(Usually happens at first party events or very prominently at E3). This is as much as a demo for the next MGS as it is demoing what the FOX engine can potentially do on these current generation systems as well as what it can also potentially do on future consoles.

On a side note, even if this new MGS was slated for a next gen release, I would still suspect that the game would be released on these current gen consoles, especially if the install base for next gen isn't slated what publishers and developers project it to be or if the next MGS is coming out next year or the year after that.

#164 Posted by BRYN (90 posts) -
@Mendelson9: I just finished work for the day, and got back to see your message. Thanks.
 
First post updated with GameSpot's full panel video embed and YouTube. Also added the YouTube link to the IGN extended clip that was posted here earlier. Finally finished off with some lovely headers. Wish I could changed the thread title though...
#165 Posted by Humanity (7995 posts) -

Kojima doesn't disappoint once again.

Every time I see a MGS trailer I get all hyped up - something that rarely happens these days anymore. Thanks Kojima.

#166 Posted by Taku128 (727 posts) -

I'm honestly more excited for Rising, after Metal Gear Solid 4 I'm cautious of a new traditional Metal Gear.

#167 Posted by Joey2683 (351 posts) -

@Demoskinos said:

Uh... still did nothing for me. Dunno we'll see. One thing though absolutely ZERO chance of this being on current hardware. This is going to obviously be a launch title for the new consoles. Also, with assets that crazy Im wondering if a single blu-ray will even be enough?

Actually if you listen to the Special Metal Gear Podcast that 8-4 Play posted last week, Kojima said this is for current gen systems. I know it's hard to believe.

#168 Posted by ArtisanBreads (3597 posts) -

@Joey2683 said:

@Demoskinos said:

Uh... still did nothing for me. Dunno we'll see. One thing though absolutely ZERO chance of this being on current hardware. This is going to obviously be a launch title for the new consoles. Also, with assets that crazy Im wondering if a single blu-ray will even be enough?

Actually if you listen to the Special Metal Gear Podcast that 8-4 Play posted last week, Kojima said this is for current gen systems. I know it's hard to believe.

I could possibly see a "Hitman Blood Money" situation where the game is on next-gen and current. But yes they've been clear this is a current gen game.

I bet it doesn't look as good as that demo on current consoles, but I don't think its ridiculous to think it will be pretty close. There have already been extremely impressive games and I don't think this is so much better it's unbelievable. Some things coming up are on par.

Remember the end of the last gen and Splinter Cell Chaos Theory: that game was UNBELIEVABLE. It looked better than 360 titles for a long time.

Another point is that I don't believe the game is actually open world, which helps it seem more possible on current systems. I think you will be able to choose to go to various areas perhaps in the order of your choosing and then the areas themselves will be open and non linear compared to the previous MGS titles. I bet when you take the chopper out you return to a home base and then choose where to go from there.

They've said it will take place in multiple countries, so there's really no way it'd be open world like say GTA or Just Cause 2. I think it's just more nonlinear with larger areas.

#169 Posted by SolidSauce (2 posts) -

If FOX engine looks this good on current-gen, I cant wait to see what MGS 5 looks like on next-gen.

#170 Posted by N7 (3570 posts) -

@ArtisanBreads: Kojima's been working on this project for the past two years, and the FOX Engine for the past five years. And it's been a year now since we've known(Since he's said, anyway) that he's working on an open world game. A game that's all happening in real time. That enemy who's walking that route right now? He'll be there walking even if you are on the other side of the map.

He wanted to capitalize this in Peace Walker. He wanted the game to have twice as many players that it did, but all playing at once(So instead of story missions limiting you to 1 additional player, and boss battles limiting you to 3 additional players, he wanted 8 all the time) but the technology wasn't there. Another thing he wanted was an open world game that was actually alive. Too many games are "open world" but it's become so sterile. It's a blank-check city with not a lot to do, for the most part. He wanted a game with a living and breathing world, not filled to the brim with mini-games like most other open worlds.

So far he's said you can wander around this world, exploring for well over 100 hours, and there will always be something there to see. There is always something happening and it's always happening in real time. So even if that's not true - take Peace Walker for example. That game had more missions than they knew what to do with.

Just think, if you will, for a moment about what the new theme is. Well, not new in thought, but new in practice. No more infiltrating a base and then, oh no, I triggered an alarm, better knock people out and hide in this corner. Now the concept is built around both infiltrating and escaping. Get caught? Get the hell out of there before you get killed!

I think if the game wasn't REALLY open world, you'd have to be infiltrating the same bases over and over again, right? If it's not open world, there'd only be a set number of bases or facilities, and from what they've said so far, that is not what the reality of this situation is. It's a lot more expansive than people are giving it credit for. I mean, you can drive vehicles and capture things like tanks. Presumably, you can do the same for helicopters too. If it's not that big of a world, they'd let us know right away, instead of hyping it up as an open world game. Because we'll start to notice when we're flying our helicopter into invisible walls the second we fly away from the only military base on this section.

#171 Posted by Devil240Z (3054 posts) -

After what has been seen of MGS RIsing. THIS LOOKS AMAZING. Like I'm MGS freaking. It makes me want to play ever MGS game over again just to better understands the trailer, especially Peace Walker.

#172 Edited by ArtisanBreads (3597 posts) -

@N7 said:

@ArtisanBreads: Kojima's been working on this project for the past two years, and the FOX Engine for the past five years. And it's been a year now since we've known(Since he's said, anyway) that he's working on an open world game. A game that's all happening in real time. That enemy who's walking that route right now? He'll be there walking even if you are on the other side of the map.

He wanted to capitalize this in Peace Walker. He wanted the game to have twice as many players that it did, but all playing at once(So instead of story missions limiting you to 1 additional player, and boss battles limiting you to 3 additional players, he wanted 8 all the time) but the technology wasn't there. Another thing he wanted was an open world game that was actually alive. Too many games are "open world" but it's become so sterile. It's a blank-check city with not a lot to do, for the most part. He wanted a game with a living and breathing world, not filled to the brim with mini-games like most other open worlds.

So far he's said you can wander around this world, exploring for well over 100 hours, and there will always be something there to see. There is always something happening and it's always happening in real time. So even if that's not true - take Peace Walker for example. That game had more missions than they knew what to do with.

Just think, if you will, for a moment about what the new theme is. Well, not new in thought, but new in practice. No more infiltrating a base and then, oh no, I triggered an alarm, better knock people out and hide in this corner. Now the concept is built around both infiltrating and escaping. Get caught? Get the hell out of there before you get killed!

I think if the game wasn't REALLY open world, you'd have to be infiltrating the same bases over and over again, right? If it's not open world, there'd only be a set number of bases or facilities, and from what they've said so far, that is not what the reality of this situation is. It's a lot more expansive than people are giving it credit for. I mean, you can drive vehicles and capture things like tanks. Presumably, you can do the same for helicopters too. If it's not that big of a world, they'd let us know right away, instead of hyping it up as an open world game. Because we'll start to notice when we're flying our helicopter into invisible walls the second we fly away from the only military base on this section.

The way you are setting up the open world of this game would be bigger than any other game ever made. As I said, I believe Kojima can do wonders, but I simply don't think this is possible on current gen systems. The only game that has done anything close to that is Just Cause 2 and it didn't have this graphical fidelity or complexity of systems. I personally feel a game that is nonlinear with large, open hubs that allow great freedom is perfectly fine to call open world. I wouldn't be let down by this, it'd be very cool and an evolution of MGS. If you think about it in some ways, it wouldn't be much different than say driving across a bridge in GTA if you had to take a helicopter to a new area. Of course this would be more cut off but I don't think it would break any sense of it being an open world if the rest of the game is done in this manner.

As far as your question about if you'd have to be infiltrating the same bases over and over again: no you wouldn't in this set up I proposed. For example the base Camp Omega from the demo could be one location, perhaps a one off or perhaps you revisit it, but it could have hours of gameplay in that area. Other areas could not just be a base like that one, but say forest/jungle areas or mountainous areas similar to MGS3. These could have large wilderness areas to explore, multiple outposts, etc. and would be fit for driving or flying about in. Camp Omega looked massive in the trailer. There could be similar outdoor areas.

Kojima released images of the Fox Engine previously and some of them are set in mountainous and jungle areas and they look great and there is a huge sense of scale.

#173 Posted by N7 (3570 posts) -

@ArtisanBreads: Well, there is also the question that maybe everyone is giving the game so much credit we can't imagine it being on current gen consoles, but he's confirmed that the demo was running at PS3 specs.

It's important to note, however, that every MGS since MGS1 has all been real-time. If you leave and reenter an area, guards will still be patrolling along their paths. It never did much in MGS1-4 because it was so linear that it didn't really matter, it was just something really neat to do. It's been a trademark of the series forever, and for it to be open-world would be nuts, yes, but they've built this engine from the ground up specifically tailored to whatever they want to do. They also said a benefit of the FOX Engine is that ports will all be seamless. PC and 360 and PS3 will all be equal. And considering their mastery of the PS3 with MGS4, I have every right to believe them.

I mean, all the game is really going to be, when you get down to it is: Open world, MGS3 dreamlike jungles and military bases scattered all around the globe. Guards are everywhere, constantly patrolling by land sea and air. Everything is happening in real time and on top of that, there's weather and a day and night cycle to make it look pretty. Certainly everything I've ever dreamed for. And of course on top of whatever else they're adding into the game that I can't account for. It's going to be big, but not industry shakingly huge. And also, just look at Just Cause 2. If they could get half a world that big with half a graphics boost, then it will be a pretty big deal, but other than that I'm no so certain it'll be impossible.

#174 Edited by ArtisanBreads (3597 posts) -

@N7 said:

@ArtisanBreads: Well, there is also the question that maybe everyone is giving the game so much credit we can't imagine it being on current gen consoles, but he's confirmed that the demo was running at PS3 specs.

It's important to note, however, that every MGS since MGS1 has all been real-time. If you leave and reenter an area, guards will still be patrolling along their paths. It never did much in MGS1-4 because it was so linear that it didn't really matter, it was just something really neat to do. It's been a trademark of the series forever, and for it to be open-world would be nuts, yes, but they've built this engine from the ground up specifically tailored to whatever they want to do. They also said a benefit of the FOX Engine is that ports will all be seamless. PC and 360 and PS3 will all be equal. And considering their mastery of the PS3 with MGS4, I have every right to believe them.

I mean, all the game is really going to be, when you get down to it is: Open world, MGS3 dreamlike jungles and military bases scattered all around the globe. Guards are everywhere, constantly patrolling by land sea and air. Everything is happening in real time and on top of that, there's weather and a day and night cycle to make it look pretty. Certainly everything I've ever dreamed for. And of course on top of whatever else they're adding into the game that I can't account for. It's going to be big, but not industry shakingly huge. And also, just look at Just Cause 2. If they could get half a world that big with half a graphics boost, then it will be a pretty big deal, but other than that I'm no so certain it'll be impossible.

I feel like everything will be far less connected then you are setting it up to be, but with this sense of scale, it doesn't matter. I won't be able to see enemies in another country going about their work.

I am assuming the game will take place in say Africa, Cuba, perhaps other islands... so obviously it can't be like Just Cause 2. That would be ridiculous, the scale of these places would make it silly. And I wouldn't want to fly from Africa to Cuba if they even did make it realistic and open in that way, that would be boring.

Like in the trailer when Snake gets in the heli and the door closes, that is what I think will happen. The game will load a new area from there, maybe masking it with a custscene or codec conversation. Then you will be in the new area. From there it is open. I assume you can go directly to other places and there is some kind of hub base.

#175 Posted by N7 (3570 posts) -

@ArtisanBreads: Well the funny part about that scene in the chopper is if you listen to the live presentation they did, they guy literally says, at that very second "This is all open world. See that area all the way over there? It's all in game, you can go over there."

#176 Posted by ArtisanBreads (3597 posts) -

@N7 said:

@ArtisanBreads: Well the funny part about that scene in the chopper is if you listen to the live presentation they did, they guy literally says, at that very second "This is all open world. See that area all the way over there? It's all in game, you can go over there."

Well that area is part of the base correct? I don't doubt that. I'm saying other islands and such would be their own areas.

#177 Posted by N7 (3570 posts) -

@ArtisanBreads: Well yeah. It can't be the whole world. It's probably going to be regions. And those regions will be open world. It's not like they are going to be tiny little Peace Walker maps. That shot they showed a long time ago showed some Afghanistan looking area and it was very mountainous and open. That screenshot alone looked massive.

#178 Posted by falserelic (4954 posts) -

Big Boss would give his life.....

#179 Posted by ArtisanBreads (3597 posts) -

@N7 said:

@ArtisanBreads: Well yeah. It can't be the whole world. It's probably going to be regions. And those regions will be open world. It's not like they are going to be tiny little Peace Walker maps. That shot they showed a long time ago showed some Afghanistan looking area and it was very mountainous and open. That screenshot alone looked massive.

Yeah then we are in total agreement, that was what I was saying with my posts. I think it'll be large open non-linear areas rather than a single open world. But that's fine and can allow a ton of freedom.

The image you are talking about it the one I was referring to in my post. It showed an APC very similar to the one in the demo so I think it might be from this game as well, and yes it showed a vast mountainous area. The jungle also looked awesome from other shots. I expect some of the areas will be installations like Camp Omega but others will be outposts and wilderness, more in the vein of MGS3.

#180 Posted by Liquidus (940 posts) -

I just realized, Big Boss has the Fox emblem on his suit. What's up with that?

#181 Posted by ArtisanBreads (3597 posts) -

@Liquidus said:

I just realized, Big Boss has the Fox emblem on his suit. What's up with that?

In the trailer it looked like MSF, but I've seen both. Maybe one on each shoulder? I think it's still not understood.

#182 Posted by Wrighteous86 (3642 posts) -

@ArtisanBreads said:

@Liquidus said:

I just realized, Big Boss has the Fox emblem on his suit. What's up with that?

In the trailer it looked like MSF, but I've seen both. Maybe one on each shoulder? I think it's still not understood.

Half of the game you're Big Boss setting up Outer Heaven, half of it you're Snake breaking into it based on MG 1 and 2. Boom. Game of the forever.

The Godfather 2 of video games.

#183 Posted by ArtisanBreads (3597 posts) -

@Wrighteous86 said:

@ArtisanBreads said:

@Liquidus said:

I just realized, Big Boss has the Fox emblem on his suit. What's up with that?

In the trailer it looked like MSF, but I've seen both. Maybe one on each shoulder? I think it's still not understood.

Half of the game you're Big Boss setting up Outer Heaven, half of it you're Snake breaking into it based on MG 1 and 2. Boom. Game of the forever.

The Godfather 2 of video games.

That would certainly be interesting. I feel like the MG 1 and 2 reimagining could happen as MGS 5. Kojima has said this game is a prequel to MGS 5.

Who knows though, of course. Hard to predict Kojima.

#184 Posted by crazyleaves (629 posts) -
@Wrighteous86 My mind is blowed!

I played MGS when it first came out and rented the NES port of MG with my brother, but we could never get past the desert puzzle. Saying that, I just beat MGS4 and holy shit! 12 hours later this!!! Now it's Snake Eater HD off of PSN...

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