Do you want to know how Big Boss came to be?

#1 Edited by Jeust (10680 posts) -

According to Hideo Kojima:

"This episode [Metal Gear Solid V: The Phantom Pain] is the story of how Snake became Big Boss. It is important for me to explain to the players how this hero became an evil threatening the entire world. That’s why it needed to become a very dramatic story.”

Source: http://gamewise.co/brainwaves/6468/Metal-Gear-Solid-5-Tells-How-Snake-Became-a-Villain

Are you curious?

#2 Posted by ViciousBearMauling (1121 posts) -

I'll take anything Big Boss related. He is the more interesting character, I always found Solid boring in comparison.

I also think it's fun to see the "Die the hero or live long enough to be the villain" thing play out.

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#3 Edited by crithon (3311 posts) -

just reminded in peace walker he still believes in Santa claus

No, I'm not curious, because he's going to turn into one of those anime villains who go off on "you don't really know but I'm doing this because these other guys are worse. I have to go and do some other awesome stuff you just think is evil." At some point he's not going to be PURE EVIL! We are going to need Solid Snake's perspective instead..... but even then we got the hug it out moment in MGS4 because no one really understands Big Boss' problems.

#4 Posted by Clonedzero (4200 posts) -

realistic villians with proper motivations and such are often the most memorable and enjoyable characters in fiction.

So if the game can properly pull off him slowly turning into a "villian" then i will enjoy the shit out of the game. honestly the is the first MGS game ive been interested in since 3, and i though 2 was garbage.

#5 Posted by NTM (7411 posts) -

Of course I'm curious, though I'm also curious as to how Zero turned from the James Bond loving character, to the almighty evil person; not just how Snake turned bad. I mean, they don't go into great detail about it is all. We know the events that took place, but not the sudden change in personality.

#6 Posted by lord_canti (1515 posts) -

I don't really care that much about big boss and the cold war setting. I would rather a continuation from solids story in that world as more and more of big bosses stuff feels shoe horned in like peace walker ( and to me that game is the lowest point in the series)

#7 Posted by falserelic (5445 posts) -

Hopefully he doesn't start releasing parts of the game as episodes, then charging people 30 bucks when it launches.

#8 Posted by TheHT (11389 posts) -

Great! I do enjoy a good 'fall from grace' story.

#9 Posted by Stealthmaster86 (659 posts) -

I do. I hope, but I doubt it, that half way through the game we start being the villain.

#10 Posted by Petiew (1351 posts) -

Yes I am. I'm also curious to see if he becomes an actual villain or if it's something similar to what the Boss went through.

#11 Posted by Nodima (1226 posts) -

If I have to get any MGS at this point I'd prefer it's with Big Boss. MGS4 was such a bag of hot air / fan service overload and its setting was so bleak and weirdly anime that I don't really want any more of it.

On a side note, I miss the days when people in the MGS universe wore actual boots. I wish I understood why Ground Zeroes Snake is dressed nearly as sci-fi as MGS4 Snake.

#12 Posted by Dixavd (1358 posts) -

I thought this series was about a cardboard box. Where's the backstory in that, man? I need to know!

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#13 Edited by GERALTITUDE (3351 posts) -

As someone who's played and loved all the Metal Gears I'm still unclear on who Original Big Boss was, so seeing the "transformation" feels besides the point since I'm not sure what his personaliy is supposed to be anyways.

I mean was he really an evil person in MG1 & 2? And didn't he always believe he was fighting for the greater good? The greater good just happened to cost many innocent lives.

I should replay those games..

#14 Edited by csl316 (8775 posts) -

@geraltitude said:

As someone who's played and loved all the Metal Gears I'm still unclear on who Original Big Boss was, so seeing the "transformation" feels besides the point since I'm not sure what his personaliy is supposed to be anyways.

I mean was he really an evil person in MG1 & 2? And didn't he always believe he was fighting for the greater good? The greater good just happened to cost many innocent lives.

I should replay those games..

Same, I know the basic story of the original games but I always felt like Outer Heaven was just a glorified PMC. That's what MSF became, anyway. And hell, they even had ZEKE.

Can someone explain why he's considered such a bad dude? Did he start thinking world domination?

#15 Posted by MonkeyKing1969 (2821 posts) -

#16 Posted by The_Ruiner (1065 posts) -

Honestly I'd rather have a game about The Boss.

#17 Posted by DonutFever (3551 posts) -

Kinda, it all depends on what exactly caused the change.

#18 Posted by DonChipotle (2768 posts) -

Big Boss is not character to be idolized or some noble villain. Dude was not a good person and I don't trust Kojima enough to make a compelling narrative about the guy's face-heel turn.

#19 Posted by Abendlaender (2812 posts) -

I really feel like some things should just remain a mystery. Explaining too much always ruins things. It might be great this time or it might be another case of "midichlorians"

#20 Posted by Sooty (8082 posts) -

I don't really care that much because I think Metal Gear Solid went too far up its own ass. If they can create a compelling, somewhat self contained story with a great game behind it, then that's great and all I really want.

#21 Edited by Village_Guy (2598 posts) -

I don't give a shit about the other Metal Gear Solid games, but I'm super interested in The Phantom Pain, the tonal shift really feels like Kojima is doing what he wanted to do for a years now - a shame they wouldn't let him create a new universe for it though. But I like the direction Ground Zeroes took and what it promises for The Phantom Pain.

#22 Edited by GERALTITUDE (3351 posts) -
#23 Posted by DonChipotle (2768 posts) -

@donchipotle: why is Big Boss such a bad person?

The guy is so disillusioned and hung up over the only woman he's ever loved that he turns into a war criminal, even using children to further his goals of destabilizing the world to create an ideal place for soldiers. Nevermind the ordinary non-soldiers of the world. In the first Metal Gear, Big Boss is trying to establish Outer Heaven's military supremacy with their nukes and their giant robot nuke launcher. Big Boss thrives on a cycle of war and it's consumed his whole being. 'Start a war, fan its flames, and create victims... then save them, train them... and feed them back onto the battlefield.'

Sure, someone can claim that Big Boss had noble intentions or that he's not 'really' a bad guy in the grande scheme of morality, or even go as far as to call him an 'anti-hero', since that's the catch-all term for 'protagonists who don't act like typical heroes'. If we're getting that specific then the 'bad guy' is someone like Volgin who was just reprehensible. He's not a good guy. Before the series became what it was, he was a straight up villain and warmonger. A villain corrupted by his own perspectives and warped ideologies is still a villain. Even in MGS 4 he was full of regret for all the terrible shit he was responsible for.

Big Boss is not a good person.

#24 Posted by Turambar (6790 posts) -

Honestly I'd rather have a game about The Boss.

The Boss and America is the best love story in the history of video games.

#25 Posted by Oldirtybearon (4826 posts) -

@donchipotle said:

Big Boss is not a good person.

I think MGS3 and Peace Walker did a lot to muddy the waters on that. Add into it the reason why Big Boss did what he did (the retcon in MGS4 that made the government and military industrial complex the villains of MGS and not the, well, episodic antagonists) and it gets even more clouded. The funny thing about all of the revolutions in the MGS series, the failed ones stopped by Solid Snake or Raiden, all of the antagonists in those games were actually noble people. Solidus was a war criminal who used child soldiers, but his goal was to free the world from the Patriots' oppression. He was trying to live up to the ideals set by the American founding fathers. He got smacked back down by the Patriots because, ultimately, one man against the war machine of America is still just one man.

Then you have Big Boss, who believed wholeheartedly in his country and its values. Until his country betrays him by betraying the most important person in his life. That's his start of darkness, and his optimism, hope, and ultimately his humanity are stripped from him because every cause he comes to believe in is corrupted and perverted by the very war machine that destroyed his innocence (or naivety) in MGS3.

Then you have Ocelot. Son of The Boss and The Sorrow. This guy. Goddamn. Just look up a wiki for his story. It's pretty depressing when taken into the greater context of the MGS series.

I suppose all of this is to point out that every antagonist in the MGS series (save for Volgin who is just a piece of shit) would be a hero had they succeeded. They didn't want power, they didn't want to rule the world, all they sought to do was free it from the oppression of the Patriots. To free people and allow them to choose for themselves what kind of society they want to live in, what kind of people they want to be. Each "villain" in the MGS series is essentially another retelling of Prometheus. Who himself sought to grant the power of the gods to the common people, and ultimately he pays for this sin against the all powerful for eternity.

What was my point again? Oh, right, yeah, while you may subjectively look at a character and say "that's not a good person" I would argue that their goals, their hopes and dreams also have merit. These may not be "good" people by your definition, but they are nevertheless people who chose to act on behalf of those who could not defend themselves.

#26 Edited by Quarters (1721 posts) -

Sure, though I'm way more interested in seeing MG1 and MG2 remade into proper MGS games, since they are such an important part of the series.

#27 Posted by ViciousBearMauling (1121 posts) -

@turambar said:

@the_ruiner said:

Honestly I'd rather have a game about The Boss.

The Boss and America is the best love story in the history of video games.

The Boss and her men storming the beaches of Normandy.

Nothing else would make me shed such a tear of happiness.

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#28 Posted by bybeach (4848 posts) -

Many of you may be pre-innervated of the good guy goes bad routine and well, too bad. Kojima or video games didn't originate that. My fear is more like, will Kojima be pulling more bizarre and weirder b.s. out of his rear end for the story ark. I mean, like I caught myself before it happened( I was already preparing myself for Octagon's big sob-out and wanting to hide) but was I really supposed to feel empathy for Vamp?

I do like some of what Kojima does, sometimes he hits some good notes. But much I just find forced and ill-fitting. And I think that Quiet or Silence character running around a environmentally hazardous battlefield in lingerie a good point of this. Yes I know I am supposed to have it coming because I have not seen the full story yet. The game is a year out. But she looks ridiculous(and kind of hot).

#29 Posted by LaszloKovacs (1145 posts) -

I mean, I don't really play Metal Gear for the story, I play it because it's a fun stealth action game, and the sandbox angle to the new one seems really promising.

Metal Gear's story has pretty much always been dumb anime nonsense, but it's a fun justification for the action. It's silly and ham-fisted but it's interesting because there's not really anything else quite like it.

#30 Edited by csl316 (8775 posts) -

Metal Gear's story has pretty much always been dumb anime nonsense, but it's a fun justification for the action. It's silly and ham-fisted but it's interesting because there's not really anything else quite like it.

I dunno, Snake Eater had a very riveting narrative. Loyalty, ideology, questioning the nature and meaning of your actions.

The lightning man was just there because video games.

#31 Posted by Stealthmaster86 (659 posts) -

@csl316 said:

@laszlokovacs said:

Metal Gear's story has pretty much always been dumb anime nonsense, but it's a fun justification for the action. It's silly and ham-fisted but it's interesting because there's not really anything else quite like it.

I dunno, Snake Eater had a very riveting narrative. Loyalty, ideology, questioning the nature and meaning of your actions.

The lightning man was just there because video games.

Every joke, ever forth wall break, every humor this series has is because video games.

#32 Edited by ch3burashka (5089 posts) -

Don't we already kind of know? He was a soldier, became disillusioned with America, started his PMC.

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