Microsoft Knew, Turk 182

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Posted by Jeff (3400 posts) -
The Seattle Post-Ingelligencer (it's a newspaper and a website!) has a story up in its Microsoft-focused blog detailing some newly released documents stating that the Xbox 360 manufacturer was aware of issues with the Xbox 360 that would lead to it placing deep, game-destroying scratches onto discs. Specifically, the discs can wobble if the console is moved while the machine is still turned on and rub up against some plastic bits that'll engrave your discs with pretty circles. This happened to me a few times when I had my console up on its side. After losing two games, I wised up and laid it back down. I wasn't even trying to reorient the console when that copy of Prey went down. Honest!

This stuff is all coming to light as part of potential class action lawsuit. Microsoft has since responded and claimed that the issue isn't unique to the Xbox 360. I once dropped a really crappy portable CD player and the disc inside was ruined in nearly the same exact way as the 360 game discs are, so I guess I can vouch for Microsoft's rebuttal, too. Still, the degree of movement to ruin 360 discs always seemed to be really small, like it was the sort of thing that could easily happen by mistake.

In the below clip, the part of my Prey disc is being played by the man in the body cast. The guy in the hat represents the class action lawsuit, and the lady is uh... a lawyer or something. Look, it's been a long time since I've seen Turk 182, OK? Back off.

  


Also, hey, have you ever ruined any discs by moving the thing that was playing them?
Staff
#1 Posted by Jeff (3400 posts) -
The Seattle Post-Ingelligencer (it's a newspaper and a website!) has a story up in its Microsoft-focused blog detailing some newly released documents stating that the Xbox 360 manufacturer was aware of issues with the Xbox 360 that would lead to it placing deep, game-destroying scratches onto discs. Specifically, the discs can wobble if the console is moved while the machine is still turned on and rub up against some plastic bits that'll engrave your discs with pretty circles. This happened to me a few times when I had my console up on its side. After losing two games, I wised up and laid it back down. I wasn't even trying to reorient the console when that copy of Prey went down. Honest!

This stuff is all coming to light as part of potential class action lawsuit. Microsoft has since responded and claimed that the issue isn't unique to the Xbox 360. I once dropped a really crappy portable CD player and the disc inside was ruined in nearly the same exact way as the 360 game discs are, so I guess I can vouch for Microsoft's rebuttal, too. Still, the degree of movement to ruin 360 discs always seemed to be really small, like it was the sort of thing that could easily happen by mistake.

In the below clip, the part of my Prey disc is being played by the man in the body cast. The guy in the hat represents the class action lawsuit, and the lady is uh... a lawyer or something. Look, it's been a long time since I've seen Turk 182, OK? Back off.

  


Also, hey, have you ever ruined any discs by moving the thing that was playing them?
Staff
#2 Posted by OmegaPirate (5523 posts) -

Wow, i had no idea that could cause disc damage :( - every console from now on is being nailed to the floor

#3 Posted by Bartiemus (253 posts) -

My copys of bioshock and oblivion died in the same way cant play them anymore.

#4 Posted by InfiniteGeass (2050 posts) -

Nope, I haven't ruined any disks because I know that you shouldn't move the thing playing them while it is on.

#5 Posted by spiredcrescent (189 posts) -

i have had discs scratched before because of movement but not with my 360.  I have been keeping my stuff out of accident zones and wireless technology really helps.  Oh my poor ol Smackdown shut your mouth for ps2 i will miss you

#6 Posted by MKHavoc (1306 posts) -

That happened to me with Rock Band 1 and The Orange Box, but with RB the 360 was lying down.  I was playing with a group of people so someone might have moved it.  When I was playing Orange Box, my younger cousin ran into the room while I was playing and knocked over my 360.  I can't really fault MS for that one.

#7 Posted by AndrewB (7438 posts) -

Why didn't Microsoft shop a little more when they were looking for a DVD rom drive to include in their expensive console? Because really, there are two big hardware defects that nobody who owns an older 360 can deny. It has heating issues that could simply have been solved with slightly more expensive heatsinks, and it has a terrible and almost defective DVD drive. This thing is the loudest drive I've ever heard in my life. And have you ever heard of a drive with sharp parts on the inside that can scratch the disc if your computer is moved? Why couldn't MS have just made the thing upgradable? Does having a faster DVD spin give somebody an edge in multiplayer games? No? Then what would be reason for not allowing it? Obviously, you put in a disclaimer saying tech support would not be offered to consoles with modified internals (opening it would void the warranty anyway), so you avoid the support hassels entailed...

#8 Posted by BelowStupid (36 posts) -

never happened to my xbox, but it did happen once to my ps2 when it fell flat on it's face while playing mgs3...stupid controler cables...

#9 Posted by j_meyer_13 (386 posts) -

I had a copy of CoD4 get scratched when my brother bumped the 360... it wouldn't load one of the single-player levels, but otherwise, it worked fine. :S  I traded it in at a Gamestop :D  Also, my copy of GTA:IV somehow got a scratch in it, so it won't load the game at all... no idea how that happened, since the 360 was flat at the time. :s

#10 Posted by jakob187 (21640 posts) -

The thing is that the relatively small amount of movement can simply be from hitting the eject button on your console!!!  I mean, we've got 20 Xbox 360s strapped down to a Gorilla rack at work, and the only movement those things get is hitting the eject button and swapping games out.  Rings on at least half of the games we own.  The games still play, but regardless, it's still pretty much bullshit.

However, I completely understand Microsoft's rebuttal to the whole thing, as this also happened with my PS2 and my PS1.  Sooooooo....looks likes this suit isn't goin' anywhere.
#11 Posted by TheHBK (5458 posts) -

I did move my 360 once and heard a really bad noise come out of it, opened the tray and saw my copy of perfect dark in there.  Thankfully the game still worked but it did have a new scar on it..

#12 Posted by TabooTongue (113 posts) -

Only thing I've moved and screwed up the disc playing inside was my 360.

#13 Posted by MordeaniisChaos (5730 posts) -

Yeah, of course it can, any disk drive can. The console was designed to be vertical or horizontal, but people figure it doesn't matter if you flip it while a game is in the tray. Most of the times shit happens to disks, its when the console is moved around, not just randomly. But your computer on its side when there is a disk spinning and chances are the same will happen.

#14 Posted by akumasan (29 posts) -

My FFXI disk managed to get snapped in the drive down one side (from the middle out to the edge from one point) and a couple of other games are now unplayable too (THP8 is the biggie).

#15 Posted by Lumley (941 posts) -

I thought I was done for when I took apart my 360 while a disc was still in it..

it worked absolutely fine though after!

#16 Posted by KinjiroSSD (694 posts) -

I started to getting disc read error after disc read error when I stood my 360 up. I quickly laid it on it side so it wouldn't ruin Mass Effect.

#17 Posted by agentboolen (1749 posts) -

The PS2 would do the same thing, I had a friend destroy a game when he decided that he wanted to put it on the side when the machine was one...  Just for the fact that he thought it would look cooler!!!  I have always had my systems down and I know not to move it when its playing a game.  To me in the end this isn't a big deal. Now if the system was scratching disc while standing still, then we have a problem.

#18 Posted by darkjester74 (1566 posts) -

I had a launch console (until it went RROD) and it never scratched a single disk.  Of course, my console was always oriented horizontally.  Vertical orientation seems to be common thread here.

#19 Edited by Rowr (5474 posts) -

I ruined my Gears of War disc with this issue.

Not to mention the disc drive is fucked now, i often get dirty disc errors with brand new discs.

#20 Posted by ahoodedfigure (4238 posts) -

Dude, your disc got trashed.  But he's got spirit!

#21 Posted by RenegadeSaint (1519 posts) -

I've never had a problem with this.  I've also never moved my console while it's spinning a disc.

#22 Posted by F1 (346 posts) -

I learned from my original Xbox not to move the console without first removing discs. It does fuck up the disc drive, as well as the disc. My 360 actually causes some minor scratching to discs for no reason. I don't even move it!

#23 Posted by slayerofheroes (214 posts) -

I see a couple of comments saying that it has happened with the ps2 as well. Are you reffering to the old model or the slim line? Cuz I always move the slim line while playing a disc (both games and dvd) cuz I have it in a awkward spot and have to take it out to chnage a disc which I usually do while the thing is on and nothing like that has ever happened.

You think that that could be the reason why Microsoft all of a sudden want to change to full game downloads on the hard drive? Just a thought.

#24 Posted by GalvanizedNails (552 posts) -

I've ruined one copy of COD4 and two copies of Forza 2 just by accidently tapping the console with my foot. Its way too sensitive to any type of movement

#25 Posted by MikeyZeroG (46 posts) -
This just happened to me the other day!  I got my copy of Far Cy 2 from Amazon and had played it for all of 20 min.  I had paused the game to check my email, and on my way back my leg knocked the system just enough to give it a little wobble (my system has always stood up -- I figured it's a little better for ventilation).

Anyway, I hear a bit of a grinding noise, and as I go back to my game, it's telling me that it's unreadable.  Sure enough, there was the circle of death engraved on it.  I called Ubisoft for a replacement, and they said they'd do it for like 15 bucks shipping and handling.  Fortunately, Amazon told me that they'd replace it -- it's probably waiting at my doorstep as I write this (I have to send the bad one back). 
#26 Edited by MrKlorox (11197 posts) -

My first 360 started doing this while laying on its side and no movement. But the power reset when it happened and the drive wouldn't respond until well after I manually ejected the disc. I think my issue was a faulty wire going to/from the drive.

And while it was being RMA'd to MS, UPS fucked up and dropped the box, cracking some plastic of the back near the power plugin, causing MS to define the console as "tampered with" and refused to repair it, after I had already payed $108 USD for said repairs. MS support seriously sucks encrusted hemorrhoid. I guess I can always mod it since the optical drive is all that is fucked up.

GTA4 and BF:Bad Company were fucked up prety bad, but luckily I knew where my ten year old Disc Doctor buffing tool was. Had to order more fluid, but the games became playable again.

#27 Posted by ArbitraryWater (11414 posts) -

Happened with my stupid younger siblings knocking it over once, thankfully the game was Scene it and not something good.

#28 Posted by Dastan (14 posts) -

This is stupid, any optical drive those that, the cheaper ones (I'm looking at you MS) even more so.

Maybe the PS3 users are smarter (or were simply burned before with the PS2) for not making the same mistakes. Also, keep in mind that a Blue Ray optic drive is around 10 times more expensive than a normal DVD drive so I guess that also makes a difference.

#29 Posted by dsplayer1010 (2227 posts) -

They didn't see a need to fix this?

#30 Posted by ahriman22 (2747 posts) -

"

This is stupid, any optical drive those that, the cheaper ones (I'm looking at you MS) even more so.

Maybe the PS3 users are smarter (or were simply burned before with the PS2) for not making the same mistakes. Also, keep in mind that a Blue Ray optic drive is around 10 times more expensive than a normal DVD drive so I guess that also makes a difference.

Dude, don't turn this into a System War. As for me, my optical drive broke completely, one of the gears broke, a piece flew into the disc and made a nice crack on it, game was Mass Effect. The system was completely still. Unfortunately MS refused to accept it because I have open the tray with a butter knife to retreive the game (Which was rented). So my uncle fixed it, but broken/unbroken, that damn drive is the loudest thing ever in a damn console!
#31 Posted by malxmusician212 (48 posts) -

dude:

1) y would u think that having ur 360 standing is more efficient than laying it on the ground, that's just common sense
2) i can understand if ur playing an intense game like Gears and u push ur 360 by accident, happened to my friend, but if ur like me and put it in a cabinet on it's side it'll be fine
#32 Posted by Aaox (1657 posts) -

Happened to me with Fable 2 and GTA IV. But I'm just rollin' with the punches, baby. Yee... Haw. Also, saving to hard drives help.

Yee... Haw.
#33 Posted by Arkthemaniac (6535 posts) -

No crap they knew. They would have figuered it out at some point during testing.

#34 Posted by Ututu222 (102 posts) -

Funny thing is, the one time this happened to me, it was a game I didn't even really enjoy (Forza Motorsport, I'm not that into cars). My dad was 'inspecting' my 360 because he thinks he's a professional because he can search shit on google and tipped it while I was playing. A huge 'EEERRRRRRRRKKKKKK' ensued, and my dad didn't seem to notice, but my game crashed. Open the disc drive, boom, one circular scar of awesome on the Forza disc.

#35 Posted by ashton (310 posts) -

awwww man peter boyle :(

#36 Posted by Driadon (2995 posts) -

My 360 has been vertical all its 2 year career and I've never had a problem with scratched discs.

#37 Posted by Verge (47 posts) -

While vertical my 360 used to scratch the disc basically at random. I wouldn't be touching the console at all, then I'd hear a strange noise and when I'd take out the disc for a look it'd have a ring scratched in to it. Mass Effect and Rock Band gave me read errors because of this. I was so happy to get the NXE installed, don't really have to worry about that anymore. Haven't really had any problems since my 360 is placed flat too.

#38 Edited by crusnchill (856 posts) -

Note before reading this: This post is for anyone who dosn't know about going to get it rebuffed.

If your lucky and you take the disk that is ruined to a video store nearby they can put your disk into a CD/DVD buffing machine, for a nominal fee that is. This sometimes doesn't fix it because the scratch is simply too deep, but hopefully  you guys can go back home happy again.

Now I personally fucked up My mass effect disk whilst having a coughing fit from being flued up and accidently knocked my XBOX 360, so I tried the toothpaste trick. (Google: "how do I maually fix my scratched DVD from home?" to find a link that'll tell you more.) This method actually got me into the start menu, I previously couldn't get past a system freeze that kept happening at the microsoft logo.)
I then took it to a video store nearby, came home and instantly I loaded my latest save straight away with no fuss. The scratches were VERY deep btw, so try it, it just might work for you too.

Good luck guys! I know how you feel.

#39 Posted by grainger (330 posts) -

i see this at work daily, it only happens on the 360 and it's always a pain in the arse trying to explain it to brain dead retards and their parents

#40 Posted by TheWesman (378 posts) -

I might be wrong, but I think it says in the system manual as well as the game manuals that you should NOT move the system while it is turned on.  Seriously, how hard is this rule to follow?

#41 Posted by Jedted (2317 posts) -

I always play with my xbox liying down so i never had a problem with scratched discs.  Except for the time i rented Assassin's Creed from blockbuster.

#42 Posted by d0x (131 posts) -

Ive never moved my 360 while it was on so that's never damaged a disk but my (launch) Dreamcast and first couple (year 1 and 2) PS2's had that nasty habit.

#43 Posted by TomA (2531 posts) -

Micorsoft are fucking assholes,both my 360's have scratched discs and the xbox is lying horizontaly flat and i havent moved it at all.They need to get their shit together.

#44 Posted by whackmypinata (941 posts) -

One time I was reorganizing and I hit the 360 by mistake while it was off and my Top Spin 2 disc froze constantly afterwards.
After getting RRoD on that console (2 years baby, rest in peace) my new console started scratching discs randomly without prompt. Ruined 3 discs, all rentals..

#45 Posted by grainger (330 posts) -

it doesnt have to be a serious knock to cause it, somtimes its the slightest vibration and even nothing at all, the laser moves closer to the disc and voila microsoft just burnt a ring into £40 of your hard earned cash.

#46 Posted by dtran1212 (299 posts) -

fuck you M$, my GTA4 disc was ruined because of you, i had to go out and buy a new copy. instead of spending 60 dollars on a game, i ended up having to pay more than 120 dollars just to play GTA4, HEY M$, SUCK MY DI**!!!!

#47 Edited by Gameboi (653 posts) -

Honestly, Jeff... Did we ever have any doubt about MS knowing more than what they led us to believe? Having said that, common sense should prevail when it comes to it not being a good idea to move your console while it has a $60 disk spinning inside.

The underlying truth of it all is that the Xbox brand didn't suffer as a result. People continued to buy them, regardless of  this and other issues coming to light.  As far as MS was concerned,  they  got lucky, so there was no reason to bring a bigger magnifying glass -- of their own --  to further scrutinize the situation.

#48 Posted by chimaera989 (2 posts) -

My 360 has also damaged disks without me even getting close to it, damn thing ate 4 of my games.

#49 Posted by Vager (1653 posts) -

Just happened to my Gear 2 disc a few days ago. I never moved the damn thing, so I have no clue why it scratched it to an unreadable state.

#50 Edited by dtran1212 (299 posts) -

fuck you M$, my GTA4 disc was ruined because of you, i had to go out and buy a new copy. instead of spending 60 dollars on a game, i ended up having to pay more than 120 dollars just to play GTA4, HEY M$, SUCK MY DI**!!!! AND GIVE ME MY 60 DOLLARS BACK U FUCKIN COMMUNIST!!!

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