So I've been playing it for a few hours, running around trying to kill some captains, and so far I've died three times. However every time it's come completely out of the blue. I'm not failing at countering, I keep killing orcs and all of a sudden my HP disappears. I guess I keep getting hit by arrows or something, but I see none of the indicators or any prompt that tells me when to dodge. Is the trick to surviving to constantly be dodging in hopes of avoiding the projectiles ?

I probably should just play more story to unlock more powerful abilities, since atm even if I'm doing my best at slaughtering orcs I can't keep up with the constant swarm.

There's no dodge/counter indicator for archers. If you're in the middle of a battle and you see the prompt that an archer is attacking, you're best off running away unless you're almost done. They'll screw up your combo chain so you can't do the combat finisher move, which is no bueno. This game is cool in that it really rewards you for stacking the deck in your favor. You want to run around and kill all archers in the area when a captain is around. And then, if you can manage it, shoot down a fly hive to distract nearby enemies who may respond to a captain's call to arms, then ambush the captain.

Is it anything like the Arkham games where you can keep your combo going by jumping over another enemy to get around attacks that can't be countered?

@baillie: Yes. In fact, that's the only way to make it through some encounters.

fight smarter, sometimes running around a corner makes a huge difference in narrowing down how many guys you're fighting. also try to get an idea where archers are beforehand so you can wipe them out first, or jump up to where they are during the fight.

It's probably arrows, gotta take those fuckers out.

It was overwhelming for me at first too. It took me around a half hour or so of beating my head against a couple foes before it started to click. I made two pretty big enemies early on just by chance of crossing their paths first thing. They killed me about three times before things came together for me. I ended up hammering at the game and figuring out most of its base mechanics through trial and error, not the tutorials that followed. You're probably better off knocking out the first few missions because they seem like they're setting things up, then start messing around with picking fights.

You can die in the game? I'm finding it to be really easy, killed 2 captains and a few normal enemies at the same time... The counter move works so perfectly and can interrupt anything your doing that I can get through almost every fight without getting hit once.

Fun game but VERY easy.

@pocky4th3win: You should join the club of being proud about mad video game skills and using numbers for letters. Be warned though, nobody likes those folks.

Also, I wouldn't worry about the dying. That actually is a big part of the nemesis mechanic. If you didn't die, you wouldn't really get to experience the whole bit where you make an enemy.

Archers, they really screw you over. If an archer indicator is on your screen then dodge as much as possible and try to lead the hoard somewhere else or try to take out the archers by scaling the walls.

@pocky4th3win: I promise you, you will eat your words eventually. Yes 2 captains and a few guys is easy but try 3 or 4 elite captains with single nearly pointless weaknesses and a good 25 to 30 lesser Uruks. Not to mention eventually you'll come up against captains that you literally cannot counter. I agree that the combat is pretty versatile in allowing you to avoid damage but calling it very easy is a bit of a stretch.

I'll pre face this with saying I fucking loath the arkham games. I fucking hate this style of combat. So my view on this game is probably jaded. As I am insanely disappointed in this game due to the style of combat.

I feel I am also dying for no reason. I am not getting hit by anyone. The screen does not say anything about archers attacking. I go from full health to death saving cut scene in the matter of seconds. With no indication as to why. I played for two hours and I died 9 times. Fuck those assholes that got promoted. Pricks. I'm probably done with this game. It is not what I wanted, or expected it to be. This is a good reason to start paying attention to games I think I might be interested in. Rather that just saying I will avoid everything about it to go in fresh. As I could have avoided wasting $60 on this and picked it up next year for $10.

Having watched the Quick Look, the thing that seems super annoying is poison. Whenever Brad got it by it his health drained SUPER fast and it seemed quite sudden, when he'd get inflicted by it.

@sterling: It's a LOT more Arkham than I was expecting. Like, the combat is straight out of the Arkham games. Finishers, multipliers, stuns, enemies you have to jump over. The Assassin's Creed comparisons seem largely misplaced actually. The climbing feels much more like an extension of movement in the Arkham games rather than an emulation of the Assassin's games. The combat so far feels less smooth than either though, granted the Arkham games got the smoothest combat around.

But yeah, I find my health going down real fast sometimes too. Fights sometimes get a bit hectic with everything going on and the slowdowns (blame it on the lag, har har), but I straight up got a message in the middle of a fight earlier tonight that said "An Archer is attacking", so I dunno what the deal is. Maybe you're just really weak at the start of the game or something. I'm gettin the feeling I shouldn't be playing it like the Arkham games, just walking into a horde of enemies like I'm... well, like I'm Batman.

You can fight in hordes and it gets easier as you level up but the best tactic is to try and lead half the guys astray and then cause a distraction then run back and pick off the target with a much smaller platoon of orcs defending them.

I don't find the game hard, I just suck at it (and didn't play much of the Arkham series).

What I have found to work is cutting down on numbers, run away a lot, climb when you can, kill archers early, and try to build your max health up as soon as you can.

Not much help, but it's about all I have gotten in 8 hours or so of playing, and dying a lot (twice in a row got killed by corragars about 20 feet from the tower i spawned in, beat that!).

@azrailx: Y0U AR3 TH3 70RD 04 V1D30 G4M35

I don't know about you guys but it's been a while since I played an Arkham game and I just find the whole combat system takes time to master.

I can feel myself improving, but it's embarrassing to see how my skills have deteriorated since my last romp as the Bat.

Just wait until you fight archer captains....

and i've gotten killed twice buy those stupid dog monsters,lol, i have no clue how to fight them.

@oursin_360: Ye I fought an archer captain pretty early that was just ridiculous. He had a full archer posse, shot volleys and poisoned (and after dying to him once he got immune to the vault stun). I literally couldn't stand still for a second.

As for my initial impression, I've found that as I got deeper into the game the big game-changer was the finishers, especially getting the quicker charge. Being able to thin out the herd while being invulnerable (instead of actually beating up every single orc) makes things much easier. It's sorta unfortunate though. One of the great things about the Arkham games is how they reward you for getting a big combo going without using your finishers. While this game certainly has the same kinda talents to reward it, the combat itself seems to not accomodate it very well.

On a slightly different note. The more I've played it the more it actually reminds me of Ryse. It might just be because I played that game more recently, but while it doesn't have the QTE for the executions it has the same sorta focus on them. And it's also as rudimentary with the combat (hit, block, stun, dodge), lacking the gadgets from Arkham games. There's just something about all the different ways you chop up orcs that's giving me a strong Ryse vibe.

There's an upgrade that lets you counter them but until you get that you should just fire 2 fully charged arrows into their face.

I know what you mean, I found myself being surrounded and outnumbered a couple of times and doing fine with counters but all of a sudden your screen turns red and you fall to your knees, I think it's just orcs throwing stuff, spears and hitting you while you focus on other orcs.

The first time I died was due to an archer, and I didn't even realize it until after it happened. Then I remembered this topic.

Archers are stupidly powerful...it's sort of funny that I can take on a group of 10+ orcs who are all intent on stabbing me to death with ease, but add in one archer 50 meters away and I'm toast.

Boromir knows how you feel.

@hatking: thanks you for your compliment kind sir, may your day be full of kittens, sunshine and l33t pwning skillz

@sterling: why did you buy this game if you know you hate the Arkham combat?

When you take out your bow it slows down time; you can easily dodge a little way out of combat and headshot any archers that are annoying you and keep your combo going.

@counterclockwork87: Because I had no idea it had that style of combat. As I said I didn't pay attention to any of the press stuff. I tend to ignore games I think I will be into, so when they come out I know nothing about them. And can go in fresh. And the little I did know about the game, and what I had seen, I was under the impression it was more like AC games in that regard. And its nothing like that style of combat.

@sterling said:

For what it's worth, even if you avoided trailers, like every single time that the GB staff have mentioned this game on a podcast or stream, they've pretty much always called it LotR Batman.

My only death so far in the game, granted I've only played about an hour, was in the first five minutes, where I was struck twice by rocks hurled by a cave troll. I agree with what others are saying, archers are most likely what are sapping your health away during fights.

The dodge mechanic in this is such poop compared to the rest of the combat moves in this game that it pisses me off to no end. The attacks and counters always trigger without delay but the dodging for me only ever works when I'm not doing anything, and when you're surrounded and those shield dudes are mixed in, it sucks balls.

Yup, I've never read articles or looked at full length gameplay demos but I've always heard that the combat is pretty much taken from the Rocksteady Batman games. It was pretty much one of the things I associate that game with other than it being open world and having the nemesis system.

I understand, but this is why review/quick looks exist in this industry/on this site..sometimes you have to see if a certain game is "for you." Maybe this experience will change your purchasing habits and you'll only make a purchase after seeing how the game plays, perhaps that will make sure you don't waste your money and spend it on something you'll enjoy more.

My biggest tip: Never, EVER, be afraid to get the hell out of a situation if it has gone to shit. Strongholds are absolutely FILLED with ways to fuck the orcs up. Run like hell and slowly wittle down the bastards and things go a hell of a lot easier.

First thing I noticed when it came to difficulty is that the archers do a shit load of damage, while the melee attackers aren't as threatening as they could be.

I just fought a guy who was immune to ranged, stealth, and combo finishers. I could vault over him and stun him, but he would interrupt the wraith combo before it could finish. Nothing I tried was effective.

Eventually one of the guys I branded came through and killed him for me. What a weird game.

You fucking win this thread. Even Boromir laughed.

You aren't very far in the game. Sooner or later you run into captains that have things like.... wraith stun block, block all leaps, immunity to stealth, immunity to range, poisoned weapons, and combat finishers only hurt them (not kill them), and yes... you can get all that on one guy. I once found a captain who (thank god) was weak to stealth. Why thank god? Cause he was immune to combat finishers, ranged, couldn't be jumped, had a horn to summon allies, and couldn't be wraith stunned. So fighting him mano a mano would have been lets say... hard.

You will also run into captains who can't be countered, do attacks you can only dodge, or have combo attacks you have to counter multiple times. The combo's can get really brutal, especially if you have to fight more than one captain and one or two guys at once. The enemy types start stacking up too, like berserkers who counter you if you don't stun, defenders you can only hit from behind, multiple kinds of ranged mobs, etc etc. Not to mention the crazy freakin trolls that can one shot you, and the carragor's that will come out of nowhere and hit you once for over half your health from off screen....

Let's just say you are going to die in this game here and there :P.

This thread title is really dark.

yeah I think that's partially why there's no difficulty setting- they deliberately make it difficult so you'll see orcs getting promoted and stuff.

So I forced myself to play for a few hours. Now that I understand surroundings better, and don't just try to use the combat system as intended (like those piss poor batman games. yeah I said it, so what big whoop, you wanna fight about it?) I'm dying less and actually having a little more fun with it now. I still get very frustrated with the controls at times, while trying to run. And how the camera flips out and does dumb things on its own sometimes. (almost like ASScreed games) But overall I am just having fun with the nemesis system. I don't really care about the story or the combat. But playing around with the orcs lives if fun.

@hunter5024: heh, didn't think about that. Guess it only shows how much context matters =)

@pocky4th3win I don't know if you changed this setting in the menu, but if you want to you can turn off the various on-screen hints, most importantly the counter warning and sound effect that play whenever that's applicable. You have to play while having much better spatial awareness as you can't just wait for a huge pop-up to appear.

You can also turn off various sneak aids and such, but the former is the main difficulty increase.

I turned off all those settings from the get go and I've found the combat really satisfying, fun and more difficult than i expect i would have otherwise. Also the game looks a bit cleaner without those HUD elements.

I feel that I've died quite a few times but at the same time I blame myself each time I've died. I think the game generously gives you all the tools you need to survive in the form of button prompts for countering and even when an uncounterable attack is coming it'll prompt you to press A. Even arrows/spears off screen have an indicator, I just hit A perpendicular from where that indicator is and I've dodged it everytime I've paid attention to it. If archers are staying back pelting you, you could even just focus for a bit and shadow strike those archers leaving the melee guys behind unaware. Ghul damage seems to be unavoidable I think but they barely hurt and don't decrease combo counter. I've also had some bad run in's with caragors (It's a caragor!) where I feel the A prompt response has a smaller window of opportunity. But for the most part I think it's very fair and I've always known how I died and what I can do about it the next time.