Might and Magic: Clash of Heroes Difficulty Curve

Posted by Sarumarine (2224 posts) -
A Helpful Visual for your Information
Times like these is when I'm glad I don't have photoshop. I'm pretty sure I'd never use it for anything good. But if my MS Paint mock up is any indication... I feel like this game doesn't have any idea how hard it is or wants to be.

Might and Magic: Clash of Random Chance

This is the second time I've written a blog about a game I have overwhelming feelings against (the first is Okamiden, if you're absolutely curious.) Usually I favor keeping it to myself if there's something I really dislike. Most of the time a good rant is just instant gratification where you can feel good for a few minutes at the cost of accidentally or intentionally putting down a bunch of people at the same time. But in the case of Might and Magic: Clash of Heroes, I want to get to the bottom of this. I feel like there's some fun to be had in this game. The puzzle system seems pretty cool and would probably work great if I wasn't mauled by something I can't control every time I fight a battle. I'm talking about whatever system the game uses to decide troop patterns for my side and the computer's side. This also includes when you reinforce.

There's either a serious problem or I just can't handle the rules of engagement. Giant Bomb, help me out!

More about Chance than Skill

I've put some time into campaign mode. I just reached the third area and I would compare this game to Poker. You can understand some basic combinations and rule sets (like chaining and fusing core units) but ultimately it comes down luck. Or in my case, a whole shit ton of luck. It seems like every battle the computer begins with some cushy set up where it can triple chain a bunch of units and activate it's 4x4 special unit of death on the first turn. On my first turn I have to delete a bunch of units and juggle my much more manageable (or so I thought) 2 block units. Or I'm choked full of 4x4 special units (to the point I never use them anymore because they always get killed). It never seems fair. And I'm not talking about the standard CPU advantage because as a human I'm way more capable. It just seems uneven. And unlike Poker, there's no choice to fold and wait for the next hand. You take those losses and lose those resources, or like I do get so angry I quit out of the game and reload the save file.

The other bad end of this is whenever I reinforce and the spread dumps units all over setups I've been working on. This is especially bad for 4x4 units where it decides who wins and who loses. Without fail, every time reinforcements will choose to bury my special units under an avalanche and not even cases where I can easily delete a guy and create a wall or link something so units move to the back of the line. Facing the computer, you get as much time as you need, so it's not about missing the patterns. I just have nothing to work with. It makes for some really vicious swings where a nice lead can quickly turn into defeat.  This is when the computer opponent gets bunch of special units gift wrapped with everything they need to activate them and I end up throwing middle fingers at game code and something that literally can't care if I win or lose.

Because of this, the experience system means absolutely nothing to me. Why does the Lv.8 guy roll over like a dead log when the Lv.5 guy is like Nemesis and just won't die? The first boss in story mode was a complete joke compared to the random Elf on the side of the road. No, he wasn't a bounty. Just some random guy you could choose to fight. All that matters is how the units are placed at the beginning of the battle. It's almost impossible to build any confidence. Sometimes it's just funny when I managed to buy all the special units for the second campaign before the game introduced them to me.

The Other Very Real Possibility

The other side is that I may be really, really terrible at this game. More than I realize. I can accept that. But I was pretty bad at Super Meat Boy, another unforgiving game. The difference is that I could eventually get better at Super Meat Boy where in Clash of Heroes, I can never get better at random unit placements. Also, no one else seems to have this problem from what I've been able to find. It could be that they understand it's just part of the game and you deal with it. In that case let me know, please!

I had to post about this because there's three other areas left in the game, and if it's going to be like this through the rest of the game I'm not interested. And if this is how it works online with real people then forget that.
#1 Posted by Sarumarine (2224 posts) -
A Helpful Visual for your Information
Times like these is when I'm glad I don't have photoshop. I'm pretty sure I'd never use it for anything good. But if my MS Paint mock up is any indication... I feel like this game doesn't have any idea how hard it is or wants to be.

Might and Magic: Clash of Random Chance

This is the second time I've written a blog about a game I have overwhelming feelings against (the first is Okamiden, if you're absolutely curious.) Usually I favor keeping it to myself if there's something I really dislike. Most of the time a good rant is just instant gratification where you can feel good for a few minutes at the cost of accidentally or intentionally putting down a bunch of people at the same time. But in the case of Might and Magic: Clash of Heroes, I want to get to the bottom of this. I feel like there's some fun to be had in this game. The puzzle system seems pretty cool and would probably work great if I wasn't mauled by something I can't control every time I fight a battle. I'm talking about whatever system the game uses to decide troop patterns for my side and the computer's side. This also includes when you reinforce.

There's either a serious problem or I just can't handle the rules of engagement. Giant Bomb, help me out!

More about Chance than Skill

I've put some time into campaign mode. I just reached the third area and I would compare this game to Poker. You can understand some basic combinations and rule sets (like chaining and fusing core units) but ultimately it comes down luck. Or in my case, a whole shit ton of luck. It seems like every battle the computer begins with some cushy set up where it can triple chain a bunch of units and activate it's 4x4 special unit of death on the first turn. On my first turn I have to delete a bunch of units and juggle my much more manageable (or so I thought) 2 block units. Or I'm choked full of 4x4 special units (to the point I never use them anymore because they always get killed). It never seems fair. And I'm not talking about the standard CPU advantage because as a human I'm way more capable. It just seems uneven. And unlike Poker, there's no choice to fold and wait for the next hand. You take those losses and lose those resources, or like I do get so angry I quit out of the game and reload the save file.

The other bad end of this is whenever I reinforce and the spread dumps units all over setups I've been working on. This is especially bad for 4x4 units where it decides who wins and who loses. Without fail, every time reinforcements will choose to bury my special units under an avalanche and not even cases where I can easily delete a guy and create a wall or link something so units move to the back of the line. Facing the computer, you get as much time as you need, so it's not about missing the patterns. I just have nothing to work with. It makes for some really vicious swings where a nice lead can quickly turn into defeat.  This is when the computer opponent gets bunch of special units gift wrapped with everything they need to activate them and I end up throwing middle fingers at game code and something that literally can't care if I win or lose.

Because of this, the experience system means absolutely nothing to me. Why does the Lv.8 guy roll over like a dead log when the Lv.5 guy is like Nemesis and just won't die? The first boss in story mode was a complete joke compared to the random Elf on the side of the road. No, he wasn't a bounty. Just some random guy you could choose to fight. All that matters is how the units are placed at the beginning of the battle. It's almost impossible to build any confidence. Sometimes it's just funny when I managed to buy all the special units for the second campaign before the game introduced them to me.

The Other Very Real Possibility

The other side is that I may be really, really terrible at this game. More than I realize. I can accept that. But I was pretty bad at Super Meat Boy, another unforgiving game. The difference is that I could eventually get better at Super Meat Boy where in Clash of Heroes, I can never get better at random unit placements. Also, no one else seems to have this problem from what I've been able to find. It could be that they understand it's just part of the game and you deal with it. In that case let me know, please!

I had to post about this because there's three other areas left in the game, and if it's going to be like this through the rest of the game I'm not interested. And if this is how it works online with real people then forget that.
#2 Posted by amomjc (977 posts) -

I like it, and I can't hide the fact that the graph made me lol inside.

#3 Edited by mwng (931 posts) -

I know the feeling, I prefer the battles where it just starts the CPU with their 4x4 units already up and running. That way I know it's ment to be like this. I've taken to treating it like the puzzle game it is now, and instead of tactically activating a 4x4 unit, I'm just going for any kind of combination that gives me a free move.

Also to save you a bit of heartache if you're interested in achievements. If you started from the trial version, the complete the game achievement will not pop. You have to start a fresh save file after buying the game for it to work.

10 GAME LOSS STREAK ONLINE TOO! WOO! Mainly as I suck though.

Edit: I still love this game for some reason, mainly as I'm a masochist.

#4 Posted by Sarumarine (2224 posts) -
@mwng said:
Also to save you a bit of heartache if you're interested in achievements. If you started from the trial version, the complete the game achievement will not pop. You have to start a fresh save file after buying the game for it to work.

10 GAME LOSS STREAK ONLINE TOO! WOO! Mainly as I suck though.

Edit: I still love this game for some reason, mainly as I'm a masochist.
Whew, that's rough. At least there are moments when you have fun, right? As for the trial version problems, I don't have to worry about that. I just up and bought it.

I've played a little more and I'm still going back and forth. There are moments when I pull off some awesome stuff, but it feels like I have to pay for any great moments with a dozen battles of getting curb stomped by crazy setups on the computer's side. Still playing it though. You may have something there with the masochist thing. I know what I'm in for... but I keep playing it.
#5 Posted by Undeadpool (4924 posts) -

When they said it's like Puzzle Quest, they weren't kidding. Puzzle Quest had the EXACT same problem, and I have issues with this game in the same vein as well. What it really comes down to is you need to work with what you have. I'm at the same place you are, and I'm LOVING it so far, but you need to accept that A) Luck is a MASSIVE factor and B) USE THOSE CHAMPION UNITS. When they come up, make them priority #1. If you have to sacrifice multiple turns to power them up, so be it. Pick the one that you like the most, and focus on it. Remember: units you sacrifice go straight back into your queue, so don't worry about having to delete units. That was one mental block I had to get over.

#6 Posted by mwng (931 posts) -

AFTER 13 LOSSES I WON A GAME ONLINE!

YOU DON'T NEED TO KNOW THIS, BUT I MUST MAKE SURE IT IS IMMORTALISED IN TEXT FORM!

#7 Posted by Surkov (992 posts) -

I feel like luck plays a relatively small role. I just started the 4th campaign (red guy, I don't care to know his name) and I've been blowing through most enemies. Most of the time when I lose a match, it's because I'm under leveled, but I have never felt unlucky after a loss.  
 
As Undeadpool said, champion units take precedence. Charge them up at any almost any cost and don't afraid to move them. They are also very good at absorbing damage, I always place them in the way of something if I know I'm gonna take a lot of damage. Another hint would be, time your hero spells. Especially in the Human campaign.  
 
On a side note, this game is long. I'm 19 hours in and I'm halfway through the red guy's campaign with one still to do. I haven't even been doing any of the puzzles either. I'd like to nominate this game for best value ever.    

#8 Edited by pweidman (2326 posts) -

I found the game pretty easy honestly. Just the right diff imo, if you are not badly underleveled at least.

Yeah the AI gets 'organized drops' constantly, but you always have the advantage w/the accessory, and special skill. And as matches draw out the AI will also routinely make some silly moves leaving you scratching your head as you win. There's only one area that had me cursing a bit, and that felt cheap. It's a diff spike at the beginning of the last area.

My advice would be to get champions up and linked yeah, but also build those walls. They suck up some serious damage and allow you time to build sets. Also find all accessories as there are some that just give a huge advantage, like the one that gives an extra move for instance....sooo awesome. And some grinding is necessary imo, to at least to lvl your fav champs, and also for some achieves. The campaign took me over 60 hrs, so the value is awesome for this little game.

#9 Edited by Catolf (2653 posts) -
@Sarumarine: I gotta agree with the above, Luck plays a small role, not completely wrong but just a small one. I have beaten the game, and if you think your having issues now wait for the last boss(es) you will RIP OUT YOUR HAIR. If you can always put champion unit's first and make walls/ use artifacts to buy time. Artifacts and walsl will save your ass a lot, so make sure you use them effectivly or the AI will reme you in your butt for not doing so. If you feel overwhelmed do something else and come back with a clear head.
 
@pweidman: holy crap 60 hours? You must have done a lot of leveling, I clocked out at 39 hours.
 
@mwng: If your having issues with the online go into matches without artifacts/complete the game first so you have all the elite units to use. I learned my lesson early on when I tried the online XD
#10 Posted by Blargonaut (146 posts) -

I just beat this game. The luck factor really didn't become a huge pain in the ass for me until the last campaign, specifically the final boss. I finally adjusted my strategy a bit and was able to beat bike after a few tries. The last campaign in general to me was weaker than the others.

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