I feel like more content should be being added then we're getting

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#1 Posted by CL60 (16906 posts) -

Does anybody else feel that Notch(And whoever else is working on the game) are not working nearly as hard as they should be on a product that people have bought while it was still in Alpha, and still hasn't even been fully released? I look at the Terraria(Haven't played it, so I'm not some Terraria fanboy or anything) patch notes, and each patch tons of stuff gets added and tweaked and each patch comes out quickly, then I look at the recent patch notes(Within the last few months) of Minecraft and all that's been added is Weather, Achievements, Pistons, Shears and Wolves,  with some minor tweaks to stuff, and a ton of broken shit that wasn't broken before each patch. Some of which were mods before in the first place. A nd they all take a month+ to come out. With some minor tweaks to stuff, and a ton of broken shit that wasn't broken before each patch. Some of which were mods before in the first place. 
 
I dunno, I just feel like they could be working a little harder on a product that we have purchased before it even came out 
 
  

#2 Posted by The_Laughing_Man (13629 posts) -

You mean stuff like this? 
 
  

#3 Edited by CL60 (16906 posts) -
@The_Laughing_Man said:

You mean stuff like this? 
 
  

Yes. Stuff like that. I see modders doing things like that, while all I see in the patch notes for months is. We added pistons and wolves and broke everything!!
#4 Posted by The_Laughing_Man (13629 posts) -
@CL60 said:
@The_Laughing_Man said:

You mean stuff like this? 
 
  

Yes. Stuff like that. I see modders doing things like that, while all I see in the patch notes for months is. We added pistons and wolves and broke everything!!
Thats why I turned to Terreia as of late. They have crazy amounts of stuff added wile The modding community on Minecraft are right now the ones doing work. The team for Terreia is 2 people vs how many people for Minecraft? 
#5 Posted by Aronman789 (2671 posts) -

Minecraft used to have secret fridays where he would add some stuff as well as a secret for people to find , but he only did it for like a month and then started doing things slow as hell. 
 
My guess is he no longer cares, since he has money. He hasn't even tried to make it at all like Dwarf Fortress, which was what minecraft was supposed to be, Dwarf Fortress in 3D. Now he's just fucking around and doing some bullshit card game.

#6 Posted by benpicko (2005 posts) -

He's adding NPC villages, giant mushrooms, new mobs, and 42 more things in the next update.

#7 Edited by The_Laughing_Man (13629 posts) -
@benpicko said:

He's adding NPC villages, giant mushrooms, new mobs, and 42 more things in the next update.

All of which are all ready in the game with certain mods. A few things hes added are infact ripped right from user mods.  
#8 Posted by Jadeskye (4368 posts) -

I have to imagine the developers are fighting against a torrent of problems involved in actually making the game possible to sell at retail.

They have to get ratings, iron out tons of stuff, adhere to hundreds of pages of regulation on what your game needs to be before it can ship. All while adding stuff to the game while it's still incomplete.

And besides all that, isn't minecraft still run by like 4 dudes or something?

Temper your expectations a little, at least until it hits retail.

#9 Posted by benpicko (2005 posts) -
@The_Laughing_Man said:
@benpicko said:

He's adding NPC villages, giant mushrooms, new mobs, and 42 more things in the next update.

All of which are all ready in the game with certain mods. A few things hes added are infact ripped right from user mods.  
Yeah I know, but seeing as I only play multiplayer, I'm pretty happy with these going in.
#10 Edited by onarum (2287 posts) -

People have been saying this for ages now, personally I don't even care anymore, minecraft burned out quite quickly for me because I see no point on building useless things just for the heck of it, I might check it out again once the final version comes out though, but I doubt it will be able to keep my interest for more than a day anyway.
 
But the main thing that he must do imo is adding official modding support, giving actual tools for modders and making it more flexible, then the community will take charge and make the most out of it, once he does that, and if he does it intelligently (like adding an ingame browser where you can check a repository of mods and download them, making the whole process painless), he can then just literally sit back and fix the odd bug that may rise.

#11 Posted by Jadeskye (4368 posts) -

@onarum: You're talking about an entirely different skillset and high level systems which are subject to retail status being imposed first.

in order to setup a system as you've described would require significant development time, likely with people from multiple skillsets (i'm not sure what minecraft developers have under their belts) to build development tools and integration for the community and the from scratch building of a seperate but connected infrastructure system.

Thats very high tech stuff you're talking about, and yes, it would be awesome to see it. But i think thats a little outside the realm of a beta level patch.

#12 Posted by SaFt (390 posts) -
@The_Laughing_Man: Two people on the Minecraft team as well.  
 
They're currently working on "The Adventure update". 
The game is supposed to be "Done" in november and Notch recently talked about some of the plans for the game before its release on his blog.
  
http://notch.tumblr.com/
#13 Posted by SoldierG654342 (1819 posts) -

1.8 looks to be pretty goddamn crazy, but yeah I feel you. I feel like they've kind of jumped the gun and gone into post release support mode before the game has even officially launched.  
 
But I'm in no real position to complain, given the hours I've gotten for my $17 investment. 

#14 Posted by onarum (2287 posts) -
@jadeskye said:

@onarum: You're talking about an entirely different skillset and high level systems which are subject to retail status being imposed first.

in order to setup a system as you've described would require significant development time, likely with people from multiple skillsets (i'm not sure what minecraft developers have under their belts) to build development tools and integration for the community and the from scratch building of a seperate but connected infrastructure system.

Thats very high tech stuff you're talking about, and yes, it would be awesome to see it. But i think thats a little outside the realm of a beta level patch.

Yes definitively, l wouldn't expect him adding something like that before the final build, also as I understand Jens has extensive experience on web backend development, I reckon it wouldn't be that hard adding something like that, hell the wii has a homebrew repository browser app that lists everything with images, description and ratings, downloads and unpacks it for you, and it was done by one guy so...
 
But that's just me thinking shit up, he probably will make it so it's the same as the skin system right now, you just drop the compacted mod in a folder and then you can enable it ingame.
#15 Posted by demonknightinuyasha (476 posts) -

Anything they want to do to slow down me playing more minecraft is fine by me. The way it is now, I get obsessed for a couple days then put it down. 1.8 kinda scares me ._.;;;

#16 Posted by Jadeskye (4368 posts) -

@onarum: No i agree with you entirely that, that is where this needs to go. I just think it's a little nuts to even attempt something like that at this stage.

Right now they need to make sure they're up to code and completely compliant for the regulations for retail release.

Which no doubt means all kinds of weird shit.

#17 Posted by PixelPrinny (1050 posts) -
@The_Laughing_Man said:
@benpicko said:

He's adding NPC villages, giant mushrooms, new mobs, and 42 more things in the next update.

All of which are all ready in the game with certain mods. A few things hes added are infact ripped right from user mods.  
Soooo you want him to come up with things that AREN'T already in mods? Like what? List something and I'm sure someone will say, "There's already a mod for that". 
 
Also, have you tried the NPC villages mod? It's a wonderful idea, but dude, that mod is broken as hell. It devours ram, the NPC interactions are super buggy, city layouts can be very hit or miss (ie they'll claim there's no room to build on a huge, flat plain but have no problems making land over water), etc. If we see this sort of thing incorporated into the real game with the kinks worked out, that would be terrific! 
 
And I think the same can be said about many of the mods out there right now -- great ideas in concept, but poorly executed (not necessarily due to the modder's fault so much as limitations of the access to the code they have or inherent game bugs/limitations/etc). Incorporating things into the real game that the community creates is a terrific idea, in my opinion. 
 
Anyhow, in regards to the OP's main point of expecting more content faster than it's coming out.... Nah, I'm happy. I paid a one-time fee for a game and I got a game. It works great, it's a lot of fun, and it has plenty of mods that can enhance or change the experience. Would I like to see more stuff added? Of course, who wouldn't? But I'm not going to tap my foot expectantly waiting to be appeased with more content just because I paid $20. I pay more than that for a meal.  Maybe I've gained some sort of appreciation for one-time fees for games after having played plenty of MMOs with monthly fees that offered even less content, less frequently with their patches and had equally buggy experiences for the first few weeks after every patch. *shrugs*

There's so many more things that I can build while waiting for the next patch. I can't imagine there is anyone out there who can honestly say, "Yep, I can't build anything more till they add such and such to the game." That'd be like having a massive box of Lego and complaining nothing can be built because you're missing a single piece.  
#18 Posted by Inkerman (1455 posts) -

I think he's trying to get minecraft 'done' for the release, so he doesn't want to release anything big until like a month before, so he can then spend that month patching shit. If you think about it, most games aren't actually 'done' until a month after they're released, with patches fixing whatever bugs there might be. While I do feel he's being slow on the updates, I don't want MC to be full of gimmicks. Having said that, he should raise the height limit by a shit-ton sometime soon.

#19 Posted by MikkaQ (10344 posts) -

I noticed the same thing too, the game seemed a lot more ambitious when I first bought it like 8 months ago. Terraria has been catching my attention lately as they've packed a more in their world in their initial release than basically all of minecraft's output. Lots of enemies, piles and piles of loot, lots of shit to craft, plus pretty good and regular updates.

#20 Posted by DEMONOLOGY_24 (521 posts) -

@The_Laughing_Man said:

You mean stuff like this? 
 
  


I love Yogscast. and to answer your question notch can't hear you over his mountain of cash 

#21 Posted by Sitoxity (544 posts) -

I think you're honestly being pretty selfish thinking this. They've added a hell of a lot to the game and you don't seem to be appreciating anything they do. Just because some fans have been making mods, doesn't diminish what they've been doing at Mojang. Working out bugs is a lot of work, adding new features also does this.

With the 1.8 "Adventure Update" coming, it's going to change the way you play the game entirely, and all the stuff they've mentioned doesn't skim the surface of what secrets they're not telling us.

Don't forget about Maps too, which initially blew my mind, and when seen in practice, is fucking awesome. They're trying to make an awesome game here, and clearly Terraria had more of an idea where it was going when it came out. It's also a finished product, while Minecraft isn't.

I'm 100% happy with the work Notch and his crew are doing, I can't wait to see how 1.8 changes the game, and I'm even more curious to see how Minecraft for Xbox turns out.

#22 Posted by Yanngc33 (4461 posts) -

You guys did (and are still doing) loads of stuff with the basic features which probably why they're in no rush

#23 Edited by Mikemcn (7018 posts) -

It's still a team of 5 dudes or so (Although only Notch and Jeb really do any work on the game.). Patience. Most of what you want out of Minecraft is already in the game.

And Terraria is a 2D game, its much easier to code, and Minecraft is Java based so of course everything breaks constantly. Also, the updates don't come out for it that often either.

#24 Posted by hinderk (690 posts) -

I'm fine with what's been released so far. I also think what they've shown of the 1.8 update looks amazing. The team making minecraft is pretty small and they are probably working plenty hard on making the game.

#25 Posted by Demokk (167 posts) -

While I agree with you on the fact that Minecraft's updates have felt kinda slow in comparison to Terraria; have in mind that most of Mojang's employees are focusing on their new game "Scrolls".
 
Rest assured that you'll get all and any future content that Notch adds to the game.

#26 Posted by Toms115 (2317 posts) -

deal w/it

#27 Posted by theguy (797 posts) -
In fairness adding an item to a 2D game is as simple as changing the picture and numbers of another. If you remember how small a team Mojang is and that its a 3D game I think they're doing ok. Plus there is the adventure update to look forward to.
#28 Posted by AlexW00d (6431 posts) -

@The_Laughing_Man said:

@CL60 said:
@The_Laughing_Man said:

You mean stuff like this?

Yes. Stuff like that. I see modders doing things like that, while all I see in the patch notes for months is. We added pistons and wolves and broke everything!!
Thats why I turned to Terreia as of late. They have crazy amounts of stuff added wile The modding community on Minecraft are right now the ones doing work. The team for Terreia is 2 people vs how many people for Minecraft?

3.

#29 Posted by CL60 (16906 posts) -
@theguy said:
In fairness adding an item to a 2D game is as simple as changing the picture and numbers of another. If you remember how small a team Mojang is and that its a 3D game I think they're doing ok. Plus there is the adventure update to look forward to.
Well It's not like Minecraft is high quality 3d. It's just squares.
#30 Posted by Magicallystoopid (466 posts) -

Honestly it wouldn't surprise me too if he has one more big update when the game goes out of beta.  It'd be a waste not to, and a good time to really try and bring home any last second converts into buying the game.

#31 Posted by Red12b (9085 posts) -
@CL60: you gave him your money already....why does he need to do anything? shitloads of people gave him shitloads of money are you paying a monthly fee? is there any reason why he should update it beyond, "I want more, give me more." 
yeah it might be slightly shitty, but, it was your choice to give the dude money.   
#32 Posted by Synthballs (2193 posts) -

The adventure update better be fucking spectacular.

The game is about to be released and right now it's a dick building simulator.

#33 Posted by dudeglove (8265 posts) -

Notch talks about updates FREQUENTLY on twitter and how the game is progressing and on how his team is working out bugs. Saying "wah wah it's just squares wah wah" is infantile. You speak as if it was made in Garry's Mod. He coded the damn game from scratch, engine and everything.

#34 Posted by Jams (2966 posts) -

@dudeglove said:

Notch talks about updates FREQUENTLY on twitter and how the game is progressing and on how his team is working out bugs. Saying "wah wah it's just squares wah wah" is infantile. You speak as if it was made in Garry's Mod. He coded the damn game from scratch, engine and everything.

Every other twitter post is about him either going on vacation or coming back from vacation.

#35 Posted by The_Laughing_Man (13629 posts) -
@jams said:

@dudeglove said:

Notch talks about updates FREQUENTLY on twitter and how the game is progressing and on how his team is working out bugs. Saying "wah wah it's just squares wah wah" is infantile. You speak as if it was made in Garry's Mod. He coded the damn game from scratch, engine and everything.

Every other twitter post is about him either going on vacation or coming back from vacation.

Thats true. 
#36 Posted by CL60 (16906 posts) -
@Red12b said:
@CL60: you gave him your money already....why does he need to do anything? shitloads of people gave him shitloads of money are you paying a monthly fee? is there any reason why he should update it beyond, "I want more, give me more." yeah it might be slightly shitty, but, it was your choice to give the dude money.   
We gave him money for an unfinished product that he promised to work hard on to finish, and I'm honestly not seeing the hard work. It shouldn't be taking him as long as it does to give us minor features.
#37 Edited by Pinworm45 (4088 posts) -
@dudeglove said:

 Saying "wah wah it's just squares wah wah" is infantile. You speak as if it was made in Garry's Mod. He coded the damn game from scratch, engine and everything.

This might have something to do with anything if the engine wasn't already coded.
#38 Posted by SSully (4316 posts) -

I've completely moved on to Terrarria for the most part because of how slow he is going with these updates. It's not like I need new content every week, but it literally look a good month or 2 for him to add pistons. He says that the adventure update is barley close to being done, so my guess is September. It is just hard to believe that the stuff he is adding takes awhile to add into the game when you have modders putting shit out faster then he does.

That's why I play Terraria more now. Theres a new update every few weeks, all of which make big improvements to the game while adding a good deal of content.

#39 Posted by VilhelmNielsen (1743 posts) -

Doesn't Alpha mean everything is in the game? Or am I getting my terminology wrong?

#40 Posted by Pinworm45 (4088 posts) -
@VilhelmNielsen said:

Doesn't Alpha mean everything is in the game? Or am I getting my terminology wrong?

It's not set in stone, but Alpha is generally "the pieces exist and we're putting them together" where as beta is "the pieces have been put together, we're just finding any problems that resulted in putting them together and fixing them". 
 
But that doesn't mean content can't or won't be added in either of these stages, especially in the case of an indie game like this that isn't following a traditional schedule. 
 
If the game was a high profile release like say Battlefield 3, and you played the beta, though, there's very little chance new content will be added.
#41 Posted by SirOptimusPrime (2030 posts) -
@VilhelmNielsen: Alpha generally means or is similar to "first" ("The alpha and the omega, the beginning and the end, etc etc), I think, so that would imply the first version. So no.  
 
You know betas right? Those are the pre-release public "demos"? Well, the alpha version is the first stable/"completed" code that you can show off. So, that makes this a barely compiled game; something no one should complain about (it is still in alpha right?). 
#42 Posted by xyzygy (10077 posts) -

Do you think maybe the 360 version is getting the most attention right now from the recent announcement? I'm thinking maybe they are just really busy with that. I don't even know if it's the same team working on it though.

#43 Posted by The_Laughing_Man (13629 posts) -
@xyzygy said:
Do you think maybe the 360 version is getting the most attention right now from the recent announcement? I'm thinking maybe they are just really busy with that. I don't even know if it's the same team working on it though.
It is someone separate porting it I think. 
#44 Posted by roc_553 (210 posts) -

@CL60 said:

@Red12b said:
@CL60: you gave him your money already....why does he need to do anything? shitloads of people gave him shitloads of money are you paying a monthly fee? is there any reason why he should update it beyond, "I want more, give me more." yeah it might be slightly shitty, but, it was your choice to give the dude money.
We gave him money for an unfinished product that he promised to work hard on to finish, and I'm honestly not seeing the hard work. It shouldn't be taking him as long as it does to give us minor features.

I think you've just stumbled across the problem. Publishers aren't charging for the first half of a book; film studios aren't releasing unfinished movies. No other form of media would get away with charging for an unfinished product, why should games be any different? If anyone is unhappy with the direction Notch has taken Minecraft, well, maybe they should have waited to see what the finished result was before giving him money for it.

#45 Posted by CL60 (16906 posts) -
@roc_553 said:

@CL60 said:

@Red12b said:
@CL60: you gave him your money already....why does he need to do anything? shitloads of people gave him shitloads of money are you paying a monthly fee? is there any reason why he should update it beyond, "I want more, give me more." yeah it might be slightly shitty, but, it was your choice to give the dude money.
We gave him money for an unfinished product that he promised to work hard on to finish, and I'm honestly not seeing the hard work. It shouldn't be taking him as long as it does to give us minor features.

I think you've just stumbled across the problem. Publishers aren't charging for the first half of a book; film studios aren't releasing unfinished movies. No other form of media would get away with charging for an unfinished product, why should games be any different? If anyone is unhappy with the direction Notch has taken Minecraft, well, maybe they should have waited to see what the finished result was before giving him money for it.

But I'm not unhappy on the direction the game has taken, I'm unhappy on how slow they seem to be when it comes to actually working on the game.
#46 Posted by Pinworm45 (4088 posts) -
@roc_553 said:

@CL60 said:

@Red12b said:
@CL60: you gave him your money already....why does he need to do anything? shitloads of people gave him shitloads of money are you paying a monthly fee? is there any reason why he should update it beyond, "I want more, give me more." yeah it might be slightly shitty, but, it was your choice to give the dude money.
We gave him money for an unfinished product that he promised to work hard on to finish, and I'm honestly not seeing the hard work. It shouldn't be taking him as long as it does to give us minor features.

I think you've just stumbled across the problem. Publishers aren't charging for the first half of a book; film studios aren't releasing unfinished movies. No other form of media would get away with charging for an unfinished product, why should games be any different? If anyone is unhappy with the direction Notch has taken Minecraft, well, maybe they should have waited to see what the finished result was before giving him money for it.

Or maybe they could just express their displeasure at having a literal promise broken and being unsatisfied with a product. Your point is invalid, anyway. He pre-purchased the product with the ability to play in Alpha, which also gives him access to the "complete" version of the game, which you seem to think he should wait for until he judges the product. Except his issue is how long it is taking to get to that state, especially when modders are producing the content so much faster than the creator
#47 Posted by Example1013 (4807 posts) -

@CL60 said:

@Red12b said:
@CL60: you gave him your money already....why does he need to do anything? shitloads of people gave him shitloads of money are you paying a monthly fee? is there any reason why he should update it beyond, "I want more, give me more." yeah it might be slightly shitty, but, it was your choice to give the dude money.
We gave him money for an unfinished product
#48 Posted by SeriouslyNow (8534 posts) -

@Pinworm45 said:

@roc_553 said:

@CL60 said:

@Red12b said:
@CL60: you gave him your money already....why does he need to do anything? shitloads of people gave him shitloads of money are you paying a monthly fee? is there any reason why he should update it beyond, "I want more, give me more." yeah it might be slightly shitty, but, it was your choice to give the dude money.
We gave him money for an unfinished product that he promised to work hard on to finish, and I'm honestly not seeing the hard work. It shouldn't be taking him as long as it does to give us minor features.

I think you've just stumbled across the problem. Publishers aren't charging for the first half of a book; film studios aren't releasing unfinished movies. No other form of media would get away with charging for an unfinished product, why should games be any different? If anyone is unhappy with the direction Notch has taken Minecraft, well, maybe they should have waited to see what the finished result was before giving him money for it.

Or maybe they could just express their displeasure at having a literal promise broken and being unsatisfied with a product. Your point is invalid, anyway. He pre-purchased the product with the ability to play in Alpha, which also gives him access to the "complete" version of the game, which you seem to think he should wait for until he judges the product. Except his issue is how long it is taking to get to that state, especially when modders are producing the content so much faster than the creator

Modders are producing content. Content. They are not debugging engine code, doing load testing, making sure netcode scales high or even doing any of the other aspects which allow for the game to reach other platforms. People who aren't actually involved in the development process shouldn't be complaining about the development process because, frankly, they don't understand the development process. People paid for early access to the Alpha, knowing that the beta and final products were not ready yet. Nobody 'gave' anything. Mojang isn't a charity and they never promised a lead time. If they're still not done in a year, then complain. That's what I think.

#49 Posted by Subjugation (4740 posts) -

@SirOptimusPrime: No, Minecraft went into beta a while back. Beta 1.7.2 I believe currently.

Yeah, it is a little embarrassing to watch independent modders release more content with usually more drastic changes than what the actual development team does. However you need to remember that Mojang also burns time fixing bugs and that if you were to consider all of the independent modders together it would likely be many fold larger than Mojang's coding team. All of these modders are separate entities working on different projects simultaneously. So yeah, it does seem like they are pushing out more content but honestly by virtue of having so many people tinkering away that should almost be expected.

I'm not condoning Mojang's practices or anything since it does seem like a fair amount of their "new content" is them folding in community made mods into the game, but I also think people are overlooking logistics to a degree. I don't want Notch to move on to a new game just yet though, at least not until he implements some true community mod support tools to keep the game fresh.

#50 Posted by SirOptimusPrime (2030 posts) -
@weeman105 said:

@SirOptimusPrime: No, Minecraft went into beta a while back. Beta 1.7.2 I believe currently.

Yeah, it is a little embarrassing to watch independent modders release more content with usually more drastic changes than what the actual development team does. However you need to remember that Mojang also burns time fixing bugs and that if you were to consider all of the independent modders together it would likely be many fold larger than Mojang's coding team. All of these modders are separate entities working on different projects simultaneously. So yeah, it does seem like they are pushing out more content but honestly by virtue of having so many people tinkering away that should almost be expected.

I'm not condoning Mojang's practices or anything since it does seem like a fair amount of their "new content" is them folding in community made mods into the game, but I also think people are overlooking logistics to a degree. I don't want Notch to move on to a new game just yet though, at least not until he implements some true community mod support tools to keep the game fresh.

Well, fuck. Beta 1.7.2? Seriously?  
 
They should stop releasing "lolol updates" then. Jesus, by now they should have a fully functioning game with most of the stuff you guys are talking about. Oh well, it is like 4 dudes or something. I wouldn't know, I've avoided Minecraft like the plague ever since I played it for like 10 minutes at a friend's house and knew it would drain my life.  
 
Good call on my part, apparently. 

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