" 1) Wow, nice post, bro. Meowayne said nothing about me and posted his own opinion. I also said nothing of Meowayne, only posted my opinion.
2) No, but that's off topic. Go back to talking of arse licking fanboys, that's much more constructive and much better than my posts, you're so cool.

You said that game looks muddy (and it does) and any immersion the controls could add is lost with the visuals (sounds true). No mention? Yeah, you said it in relation to each other, as if I said anything about immersion, or said anything to praise MOH2's graphics. Controls were the topic and the only reason I mentioned the game you singled out of several, just to bash its visuals which I would too if it was the subject. It wasn't.

Wii FPS controls are definitely on par, if not better than, controls on the HD consoles. Not on par with the PC. Critics opinions show that much, since with the low-effort shoddy porting of the FPS titles it's had so far, they only earn points for the controls and end up with a similar enough metascore, as that is what most reviews mention. You can like them less, I can like them more, calling them sub par is simply your opinion.As for the problems, well, duh, no control methods are perfect. You agree PC controls are superior, that implies problems with HD controls too. "

"Wii FPS controls are definitely on par, if not better than, controls on the HD consoles." Al3xand3r

" I was not aware that Matt Casamassina was the be-all-end-all opinion giver on control mechanisms. "

It seems to me that after a moderator talk or whatever you pmed me about (because you thought I accused you no less, which I never did, but that's another story for another day I suppose) you start pointing the finger at other Wii owners to take the stigma off your back because you're scared of God knows what. And of course you won't respond to the statament you made huge and underlinedbecause there's nothing to respond to a mere fact (as it is for those who like them). And since you're not gonna respond to that, I don't know why the fuck you respond to me at all. The controls is all of what I've been talking about, the controls isn't what you wanna talk about, yet you keep spewing bullshit about ass licking fanboys. Perhaps you should take a look in the mirror before you point the finger at whoever you think harms the forums or is absurd.

Yes, some people are incompetent with Wii controls, we know that much. Guess what, some (perhaps mostly PC gamers who don't play much on consoles) are incompetent with gamepad controls, that doesn't make them bad either. Some are competent but still dislike or even hate them.  Many a PC gamer hates dual analog controls but they don't go around in every thread spewing bullshit about how they suck. Well, some do. I don't. Whatever. People have different preferences, I thought I've been saying exactly that in all these discussions. As for Matt, I never brought him up as proof of anything. I said critics, in general. Other than a few, ahem, stubborn writers like Jeff, many find the controls "just fine" and "on par" to say the least. Other than that, many Wii owners find them "on par" and "just fine" to say the least.

It is therefor your mere personal opinion which makes them "under-par" for you and nothing more. Again, they're not perfect and I never said they are. They're not on par with PC controls and I never said they are. And since you also find PC controls superior of the three, it seems that you accept there are issues, different issues, with HD controls. Perhaps issues you can live with. Perhaps Wii controls have issues you can't live with and others can. I also never disputed issues exist with Wii controls. All control schemes have their issues.

Some, like you, do not like them. Fine. Did I tell you to like them? I can accept you hate them. What I can't understand is why you aren't able to accept that others find them great, with the positives outdoing the negatives for them, and that this doesn't mean they're retarded and like shit things, for that to mean that Wii controls are indeed shit merely because you, Jayge, Jeff, and many others find them to be so. Gawd. Seriously?

As for the wow factor issue, what else would you be reffering to if not visuals? I'm so sorry I misunderstood after you had spoken of how muddy MOH2 looks, but I don't see how controls can be impressive, if that's what you reffered to. Controls are a damn expected standard after sometime. I was impressed the first time I played on PC yes. Now it's a standard I expect from all FPS games, with the tweaks required for each game's quirks. I was impressed the first time I played on Wii. Now that's also an expected standard. Hell, I expect more, I don't want to see a game have the turning speed issues of MP3 again for example, despite enjoying it greatly back when I first got it. Hell, I was impressed the first time I played with an analogue stick. That also became an expected standard soon enough. So, nothing impresses me about FPS controls.

So, what, that is actually our subject, could make you go wow? Metroid Prime 3 sure made people go wow given its metascore of 90. Perhaps less wow than if it didn't have 2 prequels already, but still, that's pretty damn impressive. Other than that, I never claimed any killer app pure FPS title for the Wii, and it's something that is completely off topic when discussing the simple subject of CONTROLS, which is what I have been doing, while you have merely been moving the goal posts from how muddy MOH2 looks to how there has been no FPS that makes you go wow on the Wii because Metroid Prime 3 if a FPA and not a FPS or whatever. No, nobody's made a killer app Wii FPS, and I never said anyone did, so that is a completely off topic argument I never tried to discuss or shoot down. What I have been discussing is the controls.

To recap. No, Wii controls aren't divine and I never said they are. No, the Wii has no pure FPS killer app and I never said it has one. But these two facts don't mean shit for what I've been saying, which is that a) no, Wii controls aren't shit, they're at least on par with HD controls for many, and b) your objections based on your personal preferences don't change that to make the controls factually, universally shitty and under par for anyone but you and those who share the same opinion, since you seem to have many people around with the opposite opinion, and I'm not talking just on here, where you'll claim it's just me and Meowayne, the ass licking fanboys, but also on other communities like NeoGAF, and also among critics, as, once again, the metacritic scores, and the actual text reviews of many such Wii titles show.

Edit: Congrats for using a lightgun-esque shell to play The Conduit (and other FPS?), the rumble blaster or whatever, then complaining that it felt "lightgunny" to you... From my experience it would also restrict your control tweaking to a degree considering that if you hold it as a gun you get extremely weird access to the top buttons and you also can't easily use the two different motion functions, one on the nunchuck and one on the remote. Not to mention without 1:1 aiming it just hinders your play style than helps it. There's no point in using a gun shell and aiming as with a gun if you're merely controlling a cursor that doesn't have 1:1 aiming calibration like House of the Dead has. Just take that thing off, use the remote and nunchuck as normal, in your lap, with slight wrist movements and easier, more natural access to the main top buttons. This is just an obersvation, a hint of advice, nothing more. I'm not making any other point, the points I had to make are in the bulk of the text...

I feel like I should write 30 walls of text just to fit in here.  I'll try to make this as simple and as blunt as possible.

• Modern Warfare 2 (which this topic is supposedly about) is not coming to the Wii.  Ever.
• The Conduit (the "other" topic apparently) is simply an average shooter from what I've seen so far.
• Jeff knows more about shooters than Matt Casamassina therefore I take Jeff's word over Matt's word on this subject anytime.
• I personally haven't played The Conduit so I could be wrong on points 2 and 3.  I need to play it for myself.
  
• I still think Metroid Prime 3 is the standard for Wii shooters, but the only shooters I've played on the Wii are Call of Duty 3 and Metroid Prime 3... which brings up my next point.
  
• I don't play many shooters myself, but I can't say that the Wii Remote is better or worse than a traditional pad or a mouse/keyboard combo.  It's different.  A talented developer like Infinity Ward can make Modern Warfare 2 awesome on the Wii if they put the resources to it.  Nobody has yet to do it although High Voltage gave it a shot and failed according to some.
  
• Al3xand3r, you need to learn how to state your opinion in less than 100 words... without major edits... while not looking like you know it all and we don't know jack shit.  It has gotten very annoying.
  
• This thread needs to die since it has outlived its usefulness 100 or so posts ago.

1-Plausible
2-True
3-Don't care for Matt, or Jeff
4-Ok
5-I can see where you're coming from, try WaW also
6-Great
7-Sorry, can only take so much Wii bs before exploding, edits are usually to shorten them/make them easier to read
8-True, I revived it with some pre-order slips of MW2 Wii from European stores, my bad

For the record, I was just using Casamassina because he (besides Bozon) is the only Wii-centric journalist I know, and he's also a bit of a wingnut. I did not intend for this to become a discussion on Matt's FPS experiences, lol.

Come on peeps if there is a Wii version on the way it's not made by infinity ward. And Activision is the publisher so I would expect anything less of them it comming to the Wii....

Well I'm sure Wii-only peeps will be happy! (as long as the game doesn't suck on the Wii)

" Come on peeps if there is a Wii version on the way it's not made by infinity ward. And Activision is the publisher so I would expect anything less of them it comming to the Wii.... "

This doesn't surprise me at all.

" @MasterOfPenguins_Zell said:

" @Arkthemaniac: Are the people who play Bad Company and the people who play MW2 even the same people? I've looked through many of my CoD4 friends "played games" list on my 360, and don't remember ever seeing Bad Company. I can't see someone heading to the store for MW2 and then end up buying Bad Company instead, or hearing/seeing Bad Company and buying it instead, if anything they'll get both. I really doubt that Bad Company coming out around the same time will subtract from MW2 sales. "

No, but it'll be a better game.

BWAHAHAHA!"

Regardless, Modern Warfare 2 will do buttloads on BC2, it's not even a comparison in terms of sales potential :-/

You guys are fucking stiffer than I could possibly concieve. I'll leave and let you get serious at each other over meaningless crap.

I think this topic has now hit an all time low where constructive discussion has been thrown to the side in favour of pointless arguing and bitching at one another instead of discussing the subject at hand in a more productive and mature way. I'm sure we can all hazard a guess as to who is responsible for derailing this topic. I'd like to remind everyone that trolling, flaming and all round zealous fanboy rage that derails topics is not only rude but completely kills the chances of your fellow users taking you seriously in a discussion.

I am slowly losing patience with people who think Giant Bomb is System Wars. Take a step back and check your fanboyish attitudes at the door before hitting the 'rage' key.

Locked.