Warhammer - Heroes of Wrath is Not a Good Free to Play Game

Posted by G0rd0nFr33m4n (762 posts) -

** I posted this in the WoH Forums but I was so proud of my math I thought I would post it here too :P

I have checked out the game and yes, the heros are god damn expensive.

For those of who are wondering the Lowest amount of in game currency you can get is approximately 55 gold for playing a match which you get in a random "roll".

You get this single "roll" for completing the match and based on how you did during the match you can earn more rolls, which can give you the chance at more gold or items.

Factors such as if you were in a group, if you got first place, if you got a killstreak of 6 or more, etc. these can all give you bonus "rolls" at the end of the match.

For each roll you earn you get a chance of randomly getting 55 gold, more gold, or a chest with an item in it. I think the max number of rolls you can earn in a match is 6, so lets say (to keep it simple) you get 6 rolls of 55 gold so you get 330 gold, which isn't bad, that means you will be able to purchase and permanently unlock a hero in 90 games and with each game lasting around 12 minutes that will take you 18 hours of playing the game, which really.... when you think about it a person could play 2 hours a day and get a hero unlock within 9 days... which is fine.

But lets paint a more realistic picture.

You have 1 free hero for completing the tutorial, which has no stun or snare... in the PVP MMO world we can classify this hero as "worthless". So chances are you will only get 1 or 2 out of the 6 rolls, you get 2 rolls for playing a round (not going afk) and another roll for winning the round (so 2 rolls). Lets go with the worst case scenario, you only get 1 of the 6 rolls for all the games you play.

That's 55 gold per match, to get 30 000 gold you need to play 545 matches, and with each match lasting around 12 minutes that's 6540 minutes, which is 109 hours of playing the game. At 2 hours of playing the game a day it will take you *drum roll* duh duh duh* .... 54.5 DAYS ! ALMOST 2 MONTHS OF PLAYING THE GAME !

To compare with League of Legends you earn on average 100 in game currency for playing a match (whether you win or lose), a top champion costs 6000 in game currency and each match takes around 25 minutes to complete. So with LoL you would have to play 60 matches, which would take you 1500 minutes, or 25 hours. Playing 2 hours a day, it would take 12.5 days. So just under 2 weeks.

Now of course I ignored things like "The First Win of the Day" which gives a boost to the currency you earn for one match, so my numbers will be a bit off but you can clearly see to put this scientifically.... this is fucked up.

With my math, it takes you 4.36 times as long to earn a champion in WoH than it does in LoL and many people would agree 12.5 days isn't really short but it's fair... if you really like the game you can play it for 12.5 days without too much issue and still have the thrill of unlocking content... but 2 months.... fuck!

That's less carrot tied to stick type encouragement for the player as it is carrot placed on top of a mountain.

End rant.

#1 Posted by G0rd0nFr33m4n (762 posts) -

** I posted this in the WoH Forums but I was so proud of my math I thought I would post it here too :P

I have checked out the game and yes, the heros are god damn expensive.

For those of who are wondering the Lowest amount of in game currency you can get is approximately 55 gold for playing a match which you get in a random "roll".

You get this single "roll" for completing the match and based on how you did during the match you can earn more rolls, which can give you the chance at more gold or items.

Factors such as if you were in a group, if you got first place, if you got a killstreak of 6 or more, etc. these can all give you bonus "rolls" at the end of the match.

For each roll you earn you get a chance of randomly getting 55 gold, more gold, or a chest with an item in it. I think the max number of rolls you can earn in a match is 6, so lets say (to keep it simple) you get 6 rolls of 55 gold so you get 330 gold, which isn't bad, that means you will be able to purchase and permanently unlock a hero in 90 games and with each game lasting around 12 minutes that will take you 18 hours of playing the game, which really.... when you think about it a person could play 2 hours a day and get a hero unlock within 9 days... which is fine.

But lets paint a more realistic picture.

You have 1 free hero for completing the tutorial, which has no stun or snare... in the PVP MMO world we can classify this hero as "worthless". So chances are you will only get 1 or 2 out of the 6 rolls, you get 2 rolls for playing a round (not going afk) and another roll for winning the round (so 2 rolls). Lets go with the worst case scenario, you only get 1 of the 6 rolls for all the games you play.

That's 55 gold per match, to get 30 000 gold you need to play 545 matches, and with each match lasting around 12 minutes that's 6540 minutes, which is 109 hours of playing the game. At 2 hours of playing the game a day it will take you *drum roll* duh duh duh* .... 54.5 DAYS ! ALMOST 2 MONTHS OF PLAYING THE GAME !

To compare with League of Legends you earn on average 100 in game currency for playing a match (whether you win or lose), a top champion costs 6000 in game currency and each match takes around 25 minutes to complete. So with LoL you would have to play 60 matches, which would take you 1500 minutes, or 25 hours. Playing 2 hours a day, it would take 12.5 days. So just under 2 weeks.

Now of course I ignored things like "The First Win of the Day" which gives a boost to the currency you earn for one match, so my numbers will be a bit off but you can clearly see to put this scientifically.... this is fucked up.

With my math, it takes you 4.36 times as long to earn a champion in WoH than it does in LoL and many people would agree 12.5 days isn't really short but it's fair... if you really like the game you can play it for 12.5 days without too much issue and still have the thrill of unlocking content... but 2 months.... fuck!

That's less carrot tied to stick type encouragement for the player as it is carrot placed on top of a mountain.

End rant.

#2 Posted by BigChickenDinner (766 posts) -

I didn't think this game was ever good?

I mean, this is kinda like saying, "Hey guys, this shit I found over here in this pile, is a pile of shit"

But yeah, good job for noticing that, I guess?

#3 Posted by G0rd0nFr33m4n (762 posts) -

@BigChickenDinner said:

I didn't think this game was ever good?

I mean, this is kinda like saying, "Hey guys, this shit I found over here in this pile, is a pile of shit"

But yeah, good job for noticing that, I guess?

Wait are you saying you don't think the game is good? And are slamming me for stating the obvious? Or something else?

Also the about statement is how you use Question Marks.... Make note of that dude...

#4 Posted by BigChickenDinner (766 posts) -

@G0rd0nFr33m4n: Well I've always thought that the game was supposed to be a shitty MMO. Hence the "?" on the first line. Second line was not really "slamming you", just kinda saying, there is a point to beating this dead horse? kind of a thing. Also, as the math here really wasn't to intensive, I can't really hand out an award to you for your mathematics, as much as you may be impressed by it XD.

"Also the about statement is how you use Question Marks.... Make note of that dude..." <-- for some reason I can't make sense of that? please forgive me if its just me. I'm a bit of an insomniac.

#5 Posted by Ares42 (2610 posts) -

I can't help but think you're sorta missing a point about free to play games.. the whole point is to try to get you to spend money. Complaining about the inability to play it completely free is exactly what they want. Also, why on earth would they care about what the people who play it without paying anything want ?

#6 Posted by G0rd0nFr33m4n (762 posts) -

@BigChickenDinner said:

@G0rd0nFr33m4n: Well I've always thought that the game was supposed to be a shitty MMO. Hence the "?" on the first line. Second line was not really "slamming you", just kinda saying, there is a point to beating this dead horse? kind of a thing. Also, as the math here really wasn't to intensive, I can't really hand out an award to you for your mathematics, as much as you may be impressed by it XD.

"Also the about statement is how you use Question Marks.... Make note of that dude..." <-- for some reason I can't make sense of that? please forgive me if its just me. I'm a bit of an insomniac.

I am not going to waste any more time on you, so I'll just say this, my whole post, is not even about the MMO it's on the F2P game they just released. And you are the one beating a dead horse by trying to make fun of my math... as I already beat you to it, by putting a ":P" at the end of that statement. I know you like pictures so I'll end this in a way I know you'll understand :)

#7 Edited by G0rd0nFr33m4n (762 posts) -

@Ares42 said:

I can't help but think you're sorta missing a point about free to play games.. the whole point is to try to get you to spend money. Complaining about the inability to play it completely free is exactly what they want. Also, why on earth would they care about what the people who play it without paying anything want ?

I am not saying make the heroes easy to unlock but attainable in a reasonable time would be nice don't you think ?

2 months to unlock 1 hero?

Common that's kind of nuts, especially since the successful model (aka LoL) always you to progress and unlock things on a "regular" basis.

#8 Posted by Jrinswand (1698 posts) -

I have skipped the entire contents of the thread thus far to bring you this message: "You know what F2P game isn't shitty? Tribes. You should all be playing it right now."

#9 Edited by BigChickenDinner (766 posts) -

@G0rd0nFr33m4n: TBH I thought that this game was a F2P release of the Warhammer MMO (which is totally a thing) , not an entirely separate game. If you take that into account, you can see my confusion. You also seem cranky. Try to get some sleep or something, instead of hunting the forums to try and attack me when you misinterpreted my misunderstanding as a personal attack on you. Why do you seem so angry? Is it just me? It must be. There would be no reason for a human to act so irrationally.

EDIT: I just didn't research enough, I googled the game name, but didn't click on the site, if i did I would of gotten the page which shows 2 warhammer MMO's that are F2P.

#10 Posted by G0rd0nFr33m4n (762 posts) -

@Jrinswand said:

I have skipped the entire contents of the thread thus far to bring you this message: "You know what F2P game isn't shitty? Tribes. You should all be playing it right now."

I have, and it is really good I agree.

#11 Posted by Vorbis (2750 posts) -

Their rotations are broken, they're trying to copy LoL but they don't realise you need at least 1 support character available every rotation otherwise the team without support will get dominated.

I played 20 matches, earned 2000 gold, I needed 58,000 more to unlock the only healer in the game. That is fucking ridiculous.

The only way to get a healer is to pay real money or have played a ton of the closed beta so you had coin saved up.This leads to some teams having support and some not, guess which teams always gets steamrolled.

Without even mentioning the quality of the game, their F2P model is straight up broken and it put me off the game.

#12 Posted by G0rd0nFr33m4n (762 posts) -

@Vorbis said:

Their rotations are broken, they're trying to copy LoL but they don't realise you need at least 1 support character available every rotation otherwise the team without support will get dominated.

I played 20 matches, earned 2000 gold, I needed 58,000 more to unlock the only healer in the game. That is fucking ridiculous.

The only way to get a healer is to pay real money or have played a ton of the closed beta so you had coin saved up.This leads to some teams having support and some not, guess which teams always gets steamrolled.

Without even mentioning the quality of the game, their F2P model is straight up broken and it put me off the game.

Hmm I never really considered the rotation being a factor until now... good point, that is totally true.

#13 Posted by TentPole (1858 posts) -

@BigChickenDinner said:

@G0rd0nFr33m4n: TBH I thought that this game was a F2P release of the Warhammer MMO (which is totally a thing) , not an entirely separate game. If you take that into account, you can see my confusion. You also seem cranky. Try to get some sleep or something, instead of hunting the forums to try and attack me when you misinterpreted my misunderstanding as a personal attack on you. Why do you seem so angry? Is it just me? It must be. There would be no reason for a human to act so irrationally.

EDIT: I just didn't research enough, I googled the game name, but didn't click on the site, if i did I would of gotten the page which shows 2 warhammer MMO's that are F2P.

What are you talking about? You are the one who is cranky. Misunderstanding this entire post and personally attacking him. Sure he responded in kind but in his defense you were kinda being a jerk.

#14 Edited by BigChickenDinner (766 posts) -

@TentPole: Well to be fair, I really wasn't trying to be rude, I guess you can see it that way?

I'm used to being in the military where when I talk to a man I can talk to him kinda like a superior/dick in good natured humor and his fucking panties wont get in a bunch. <--- see i did it again.

And what I was talking about was this http://warhammeronline.com/ Its still in a fucking beta. At least that's what their site said. So I thought that when the original Warhammer MMO went F2P They changed the title from reckoning? I've heard nothing of this warhammer game. I thought there was only 1, the Reckoning one, which I thought sucked. Hence my joke.

Which takes us back to, I'm used to being able to call a man a bitch, or to tell him to get the fucking sand out of his vagina, with out him freaking out and seeking out my posts in other threads to attack me.

Needless to say, I wasn't "personally attacking him" that would be me telling you to go fuck yourself and allow two men to talk without your fag fairy fuck self coming to his defense. He handle the situation perfectly fine, he didn't need a "in his defense" from some random third party. <-- see, that was a personal attack.

And hell ya I'm cranky, he came into another thread, just to piss on me.

PLEASE don't take my personal attack thing personally or seriously, I literally did that to show you the difference. I really didn't mean my first post to be rude, its just in my nature, I haven't gotten used to civilians again yet.

*forgot to link XD*

#15 Edited by Ares42 (2610 posts) -

@G0rd0nFr33m4n said:

@Ares42 said:

I can't help but think you're sorta missing a point about free to play games.. the whole point is to try to get you to spend money. Complaining about the inability to play it completely free is exactly what they want. Also, why on earth would they care about what the people who play it without paying anything want ?

I am not saying make the heroes easy to unlock but attainable in a reasonable time would be nice don't you think ?

2 months to unlock 1 hero?

Common that's kind of nuts, especially since the successful model (aka LoL) always you to progress and unlock things on a "regular" basis.

Well, their model is probably just designed with the idea that people will/should buy 1-2 characters at once and then they can unlock more over time. They're just trying to push you into the first investment quicker than others have. If you put that scenario into your "math" the time it would take to unlock would most likely be cut in half, probably even more. With just that minor investment the numbers would quickly look very similar to your other example. There's probably a reason why their unlock pattern scales based on performance, rather than the more static model you say LoL have. It's designed to have big difference between your "worst case scenario" with no investment and "average luck/performance" with a small investment deliberately to discourage free-riding.

#16 Edited by G0rd0nFr33m4n (762 posts) -

@Ares42 said:

@G0rd0nFr33m4n said:

@Ares42 said:

I can't help but think you're sorta missing a point about free to play games.. the whole point is to try to get you to spend money. Complaining about the inability to play it completely free is exactly what they want. Also, why on earth would they care about what the people who play it without paying anything want ?

I am not saying make the heroes easy to unlock but attainable in a reasonable time would be nice don't you think ?

2 months to unlock 1 hero?

Common that's kind of nuts, especially since the successful model (aka LoL) always you to progress and unlock things on a "regular" basis.

Well, their model is probably just designed with the idea that people will/should buy 1-2 characters at once and then they can unlock more over time. They're just trying to push you into the first investment quicker than others have. If you put that scenario into your "math" the time it would take to unlock would most likely be cut in half, probably even more. With just that minor investment the numbers would quickly look very similar to your other example. There's probably a reason why their unlock pattern scales based on performance, rather than the more static model you say LoL have. It's designed to have big difference between your "worst case scenario" with no investment and "average luck/performance" with a small investment deliberately to discourage free-riding.

You make fair points, but most free to play games like to hook you with the fun of unlocking stuff first, then over time as you get comfortable and invest time into the game you purchase stuff to save yourself time, look cool etc. not the other way around :/

Essentially what they've created here with this "supportless" character rotation is people have to drop money first and then it becomes a free to play game.... which is weird.

#17 Posted by Vodun (2370 posts) -

@BigChickenDinner said:

PLEASE don't take my personal attack thing personally or seriously, I literally did that to show you the difference. I really didn't mean my first post to be rude, its just in my nature, I haven't gotten used to civilians again yet.

Funnily enough there's actually a fairly large amount of military folk on these forums. But they don't seem to have this problem...at some point you're just going to have to live with the fact that you're a dick.

#18 Posted by G0rd0nFr33m4n (762 posts) -

@BigChickenDinner said:

PLEASE don't take my personal attack thing personally or seriously, I literally did that to show you the difference. I really didn't mean my first post to be rude, its just in my nature, I haven't gotten used to civilians again yet.

*forgot to link XD*

Hey man it's all cool, I was being a dick too there so it's only fair I got some receiving flak back.

#19 Posted by GunslingerPanda (4689 posts) -

This sounds like every F2P game I've ever played ever.

#20 Posted by Pazy (2563 posts) -

Its rather dissapointing. I like the idea of MMO PvP but I dont like that there is a "correct" build for PvP and more so I hate that its really gear based. Most MMO's seperate out PvP and PvE gear so when I turn up at end-game ready to play "the real game" there are people there with PvP gear that just so much more overpowered I have no chance. I can get that same gear but I have to PvP a thousand times against those people who are so much more overpowered just to get to equal footing with them, by which time Im bored with those maps.

The idea of having that kind of gameplay in a "ready state" where I can play with people who are mechanically on the same level sounds amazing since I actually find the idea of PvP very fun, and when it works its great, but if the unlocking is so wierd and scewed as that its really off-putting. League of Legends isnt perfect there, for me, but its a low enough amount of time to unlock I still work towards it but far enough away I still have to learn to play each new character.

I really hope that when this game gets out of Beta they have addressed this issue, I could really get into a game like that. As it stands I think Guild Wars 2 is the place to PvP for me since they give everyone a set of PvP gear (that is not moddable or upgradable) so its a more level playing field. Fingers crossed though, I love the Warhamemr style and would like to play Heroes of Wrath if its worked on a little more before "release".

#21 Posted by Naughton (188 posts) -

A little late getting in on this "discussion", but your original post is just silly. You've set up this "worst case scenario" wherein you're playing the worst character in the game, not playing in a group, never winning a game, and never completing the modest amount of objectives needed to get more spins. That's just unrealistic. I played for a week(1-2 hours a day) with the free heroes and had enough gold to buy a hero. If you're only getting one spin per round, you're doing it way wrong. Last night, I played in a warband on a crazy win streak, and made 30k in 6 hours(with a gold boost, but even without, that's 15k in 6 hours, which is a far reach from your "math" earlier.)

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