Is Nintendo "future-proofing" their games? Wii HD coming?

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#1 Posted by Willy105 (4688 posts) -

 
Rumors have been going around for a while that Nintendo is already finalizing their successor to the Wii, with many calling it the "Wii HD". Patcher has been blabbing about for ages about how there will be a Wii HD unveiled the next year (although wrong every year), and even more important, a guy from Nintendo of France "leaking" the specs of the next Wii (from the same guy that leaked the CORRECT specs of the Wii itself before anyone else did).
 
Thanks to the latest in computer graphics, the long running emulator Dolphin finally became capable of running Gamecube and Wii games on a computer, in any screen resolution you want. But guys around the net have been noting that things you didn't notice on the Wii can now be visible thanks to the larger definition. Which is weird, because that shouldn't happen. If you make an SD game, no need to make a texture bigger than what can be shown from the resolution on a part of the game where you never get close to inspect in-game.
 
This has been noted on New Super Mario Bros. Wii:
 

The top is NSMBWii at 1080p, and under that is an actual-size version. Below that is the 480p version. Notice how the HUD is not stretched, it's actually at it's native resolution in 1080p. Why the heck would that HUD be at that resolution when the letters are never zoomed in upon, and always display on a 480p screen? 
 
Also notice the backgrounds. The mountains in the back include details not visible in 480p (like the Mario comic-book dots, usually only visible when you get close to a wall in Mario Galaxy), the bushes are also high res, the character models are incredibly detailed for objects that take up such a tiny part of a 480p screen. You can even see Mario's lips! The Goomba's eyes are incredibly sharp as well, which would only be seen as a small blot of pixels in 480p, also for the Koopa's shells.
 
So why is there so much detail when it is never used in the game?
 
A backwards-compatible Wii HD is in the works that can render Wii games in HD?
 
We are halfway thru the gen, heck, the 360 is already as old as the first Xbox was when it was replaced by it's HD successor. Consoles takes a long time to be developed (the Wii started development the day the Gamecube was launched), so the Wii's next gen brother might be starting to form, and Nintendo has some ideas for it's older games on the new system. 
 
Or it could all be just a crazy conspiracy, and proof that gamers are totally nerds and I shouldn't listen to them....they told me that the PS3 would have seven player local multiplayer and that FF7 was getting remade for it.....
 
#2 Posted by TooWalrus (13137 posts) -

I love it when crazy conspiracies have photographic evidence. Wii HD sounds good to me.

#3 Posted by WilliamRLBaker (4777 posts) -

I hope not, im not going to spend more money on a system that should have been hd to begin with it couldn't have been that hard to slap a hdmi or use the component and slap a scaler chip in there.

#4 Edited by Linkyshinks (9881 posts) -

I will not be surprised if it does happen. Only yesterday I was looking a Super Mario Galaxy 2 pondering if this was Nintendo's first official HD game, a game which has graphics designed to be output in HD also. 

#5 Posted by Willy105 (4688 posts) -
@WilliamRLBaker said:
" I hope not, im not going to spend more money on a system that should have been hd to begin with it couldn't have been that hard to slap a hdmi or use the component and slap a scaler chip in there. "
Wii HD would be the Wii's successor, the same as the PS4 and the next Xbox.
 
It's kinda dumb saying you shouldn't have bought the PS2 since the PS3 would have come out 6 years later.
 
And remember that the Wii being in HD back in 2006 would have resulted costing even more than a PS3 (the most expensive things of the Wii was the motion control technology), which would have had instant failure when the depression came in 2008.
#6 Posted by AgentJ (8778 posts) -

Its an interesting topic. Sure weird to think that the 360 has already been around as long as the original XBOX.

#7 Edited by Linkyshinks (9881 posts) -
Nintendo Scalling Back Wii Production 
 
It's been revealed that the Kyoto Company has now started to reduce the amount of Wii consoles it manufactures. Consequently, this has led to two Japanese companies - Mitsumi and Hosiden - seeing a hefty drop in revenue this year thanks to what is described as "declining fortunes" that has led to a "drop-off in orders from Nintendo to assemble game systems." 


http://kotaku.com/5416686/report-nintendo-scaling-back-wii-production


http://www.nni.nikkei.co.jp/e/ac/tnks/Nni20091202D01JFF03.htm   
#8 Edited by Al3xand3r (7574 posts) -

No, they aren't. Day 1 Wii games looked just as good and great in HD. Why would they make content lower quality than they're capable? I'm not sure what they think is "invisible" in 480p, that 480p image doesn't reflect what it's really like, some TVs may have better upscalers than the shit shown.

Scaling back production numbers sounds like a perfectly natural result of the slower, yet still great, Wii sales. I mean, they did have to keep ramping up production to meet demand until late 2008 or later. It makes sense that now the demand is more than simply met they scale back down. Clearly they couldn't keep producing the same insane numbers they did when the system was struggling to meet the public's demand.

#9 Posted by Meowayne (6084 posts) -

NSMBWii is a 300mb game that is based on the DS game's engine. Maybe, just maybe, they didn't reduce asset size because there was no damn need to do it?

#10 Edited by MrKlorox (11206 posts) -

The "native resolution" of the hud is certainly less than 1080p. 720p perhaps, but it's too blurry and smudgy to be 1:1 at the 1080p zoom level. 
 
Even the fonts look blurrier than they would be if it was 1080p. Look at the lack of sharp line between the black and white edges: there's a few pixels of blurring going on.
 
Also yeah, even some elements of the SSBB hud looks sharper than 480p. However that's not to say Wii games look bad in 1080p. In fact they look much better than expected.

#11 Posted by oldschool (7264 posts) -

When the change comes, I will change with it.  I am not bothered one way or the other.  I look forward to Wii HD when it comes and I hope it is just a simple upgrade of the current Wii.

#12 Posted by Alexander (1721 posts) -
@Willy105 said:
" @WilliamRLBaker said:
" I hope not, im not going to spend more money on a system that should have been hd to begin with it couldn't have been that hard to slap a hdmi or use the component and slap a scaler chip in there. "
Wii HD would be the Wii's successor, the same as the PS4 and the next Xbox.  It's kinda dumb saying you shouldn't have bought the PS2 since the PS3 would have come out 6 years later.  And remember that the Wii being in HD back in 2006 would have resulted costing even more than a PS3 (the most expensive things of the Wii was the motion control technology), which would have had instant failure when the depression came in 2008. "
It may be a dumb thing to make the PS2-PS3, Wii-WiiHD comparison. The PS3 is not a PS2 with High Def.
#13 Edited by Al3xand3r (7574 posts) -
@Alexander said:

" @Willy105 said:

" @WilliamRLBaker said:

" I hope not, im not going to spend more money on a system that should have been hd to begin with it couldn't have been that hard to slap a hdmi or use the component and slap a scaler chip in there. "
Wii HD would be the Wii's successor, the same as the PS4 and the next Xbox.  It's kinda dumb saying you shouldn't have bought the PS2 since the PS3 would have come out 6 years later.  And remember that the Wii being in HD back in 2006 would have resulted costing even more than a PS3 (the most expensive things of the Wii was the motion control technology), which would have had instant failure when the depression came in 2008. "
It may be a dumb thing to make the PS2-PS3, Wii-WiiHD comparison. The PS3 is not a PS2 with High Def. "
It may be a dumb thing to make claims about what a currently nonexistent or at least not revealed system is or isn't. Wii HD is simply an abstract description. For some it may mean a Wii with HD output, which sounds very unlikely, for others it's the Wii's successor, with whatever new features and capabilities Nintendo wishes to include. In the case of Willi105 I guess it reffers to the next Nintendo system, whatever it ends up being.
#14 Posted by Alexander (1721 posts) -
@Al3xand3r said:

" @Alexander said:

" @Willy105 said:

" @WilliamRLBaker said:

" I hope not, im not going to spend more money on a system that should have been hd to begin with it couldn't have been that hard to slap a hdmi or use the component and slap a scaler chip in there. "
Wii HD would be the Wii's successor, the same as the PS4 and the next Xbox.  It's kinda dumb saying you shouldn't have bought the PS2 since the PS3 would have come out 6 years later.  And remember that the Wii being in HD back in 2006 would have resulted costing even more than a PS3 (the most expensive things of the Wii was the motion control technology), which would have had instant failure when the depression came in 2008. "
It may be a dumb thing to make the PS2-PS3, Wii-WiiHD comparison. The PS3 is not a PS2 with High Def. "
It may be a dumb thing to make claims about what a currently nonexistent or at least not revealed system is or isn't. Wii HD is simply an abstract description. For some it may mean a Wii with HD output, which sounds very unlikely, for others it's the Wii's successor, with whatever new features and capabilities Nintendo wishes to include. In the case of Willi105 I guess it reffers to the next Nintendo system, whatever it ends up being. "
 

may

  • modal verb ( 3rd sing. present may; past might) 1 expressing possibility. 2 expressing permission. 3 expressing a wish or hope. 
 
See number 1 and try harder.

#15 Posted by Willy105 (4688 posts) -
@Alexander said:
" @Willy105 said:
" @WilliamRLBaker said:
" I hope not, im not going to spend more money on a system that should have been hd to begin with it couldn't have been that hard to slap a hdmi or use the component and slap a scaler chip in there. "
Wii HD would be the Wii's successor, the same as the PS4 and the next Xbox.  It's kinda dumb saying you shouldn't have bought the PS2 since the PS3 would have come out 6 years later.  And remember that the Wii being in HD back in 2006 would have resulted costing even more than a PS3 (the most expensive things of the Wii was the motion control technology), which would have had instant failure when the depression came in 2008. "
It may be a dumb thing to make the PS2-PS3, Wii-WiiHD comparison. The PS3 is not a PS2 with High Def. "
...yes it is. If the Wii is a Gamecube with a new controller, then the PS3 is the PS2 with HD.  Forgive me for using fanboyish terms, but that's how you are doing it.
 

 PS2
 PS3
It's very fanboyish, but they even follow the same design. It plays the same type of games, it uses the same controller, plays movies, and is everything what the PS2 stood for.
 
Say what you want about the Wii, but it definitely is less like it's predecessor than the PS3 is.
#16 Posted by Alexander (1721 posts) -
@Willy105: We're working on the assumption that a Wii HD will be a Wii that plays Wii games in High Definition. If that were to be the case the difference between the Wii and the Wii HD couldn't be compared to the PS2 and PS3. That's all I'm saying, I don't see what the Gamecube has to do with it.
#17 Edited by Al3xand3r (7574 posts) -

And I don't see why you're working with that particular assumption and wish for everyone to work with that assumption. Willy started this thread with his own assumptions of what a WiiHD may be, which is clearly just the Wii's successor. He could have said Wii2 or Wii plus. Whatever. We don't know. His opening line explains that he's talking about a potential Wii successor and not any particular assumption over what it is well enough.

#18 Posted by Alexander (1721 posts) -
@Al3xand3r: In the context of what I was saying:
 
If that were to be the case the difference between the Wii and the Wii HD couldn't be compared to the PS2 and PS3.
 
the assumption is that the Wii HD will be a Wii that plays games in High Definition. What I should have done was omitted "We're", it proved confusing.
 
I have not said what I think the next Wii will look like.
#19 Posted by Willy105 (4688 posts) -
@Alexander said:
" @Willy105: We're working on the assumption that a Wii HD will be a Wii that plays Wii games in High Definition. If that were to be the case the difference between the Wii and the Wii HD couldn't be compared to the PS2 and PS3. That's all I'm saying, I don't see what the Gamecube has to do with it. "
I meant the successor to the Wii would be backwards compatible with the Wii, just like it is with the Gamecube and how the PS2 was with the PS1. Except unlike those, Wii games would be able to be rendered in higher resolution than before. The next Nintendo system (which has been referred to as Wii HD since the Wii came out) will have it's own games and that won't play in the old Wii, but the old Wii games can be played with HD graphics on the new system.
 
That's it.
#20 Posted by MysteriousBob (6272 posts) -

Weren't a lot of Dreamcast game textures at a higher res than the machine could handle? I remember them saying that with the XBLA release of MvC2.

#21 Posted by EvilTwin (3324 posts) -
@Willy105 said:
"...yes it is. If the Wii is a Gamecube with a new controller, then the PS3 is the PS2 with HD.  Forgive me for using fanboyish terms, but that's how you are doing it.
 
It's very fanboyish, but they even follow the same design. It plays the same type of games, it uses the same controller, plays movies, and is everything what the PS2 stood for.  Say what you want about the Wii, but it definitely is less like it's predecessor than the PS3 is."
Maybe from a philosophical standpoint, but not from a technological one. 
#22 Posted by Alexander (1721 posts) -
@Willy105: aha, clear to me now I did jump the gun a bit.
#23 Posted by Willy105 (4688 posts) -

Anyway, these are just rumors.
 
We never know what will happen next-gen.
 
Nobody predicted how this gen would go for sure.

#24 Edited by ThomasP (1655 posts) -

If they do, I hope Capcom ports their 360 / PS3 titles over to the Wii... if that would be possible with the "new" specs.

#25 Edited by Diamond (8634 posts) -

It would take a lot more than creating a handful of higher quality assets to run Wii games on higher spec hardware properly.  Emulators are a different story, you're using far more expensive and high end hardware, that's doing a lot more work.  That wouldn't be a commercially viable solution.
 
Whenever you're dealing with polygonal scaling or texture scaling of any kind, most of the time you're not going to have perfect 1:1 assets to resolution equality.  edit - hell that's why texture filtering and mip mapping exist!
 
Details such as those 'comic book' dot patterns for the backgrounds could just as easily be dithering of lower bit depth textures.

#26 Posted by Skald (4367 posts) -

Nice to know pirates are doing better than legitimate customers in the graphics department.

#27 Edited by ryanwho (12082 posts) -

I'm not sure what I'm looking for here. All 3d games look better going through a PC emulator. How do you know they're not using some kind of shader addon or any number of other things which has seemingly 'added' to the texture? And its not a significant bump either. Sometimes textures seem to have more detail because the texture is made with a certain max size in mind, the largest it will show up in the game, and is rendered accordingly with that. So obviously you take that same texture and make it smaller for some smaller object, you'll suddenly have "new" textures pop in when you play it on the high res emulator. There are legitimate reasons for the textures to be there, and I think its probably pretty common, especially in a game like this that repurposes multiple textures so the game "feels" the same throughout. What was in the background is now in the foreground, and so on.

#28 Edited by Al3xand3r (7574 posts) -
@extremeradical said:

"Nice to know pirates are doing better than legitimate customers in the graphics department."

A) You don't have to be a pirate to use this. The better advantage goes to those who pay more, much more in this case, while stilll having plenty of issues with frame rate and visual glitches. You could always go for a mid-range solution by paying for a HDTV that includes a decent upscaler so that the Wii looks alright on it, or buying a CRT flatscreen TV to use with it. Unless you sit 5 feet from it you won't have a huge difference.
 
B) PC gamers who spend enough money (and in most cases less money than you'd need to run this emulator at decent speeds for a handful of specific games that actually work ok) beat any console in the graphics department, and other areas. At least all the benefit they get with Wii is the increased resolution, whereas since the majority of popular mainstream HD games get proper ports on PC their benefits are far greater.
#29 Posted by ryanwho (12082 posts) -

But uh. You are a pirate if you use Dolphin, because you're downloading illegal bios. 

#30 Edited by Al3xand3r (7574 posts) -
@ryanwho said:

" But uh. You are a pirate if you use Dolphin, because you're downloading illegal bios.  "

It doesn't need a bios.
#31 Posted by Alex_V (614 posts) -

I don't think there will be a Wii HD in the near-future, because I just don't think the market really demands it. And I don't think it suits Nintendo's style anyway.

#32 Posted by Emilio (3380 posts) -

I was kinda thinking of this when I played the game on an SD TV. 
For the longest time, it seems that only Nintendo (and rarely if ever, third parties) output their games in a full widescreen. Some other games are usually in a 4:3 stretched mode, leaving two black bars at the sides. 
So it surprised me when I saw that NSMBWii was running in a widescreen resolution on an SD TV. The game was kept in a letterbox format instead of a 4:3 format. 
 
Just saying...

#33 Posted by SeriouslyNow (8534 posts) -
@Willy105: 
 
Dude, I hate to disappoint you but if you look at those pics, you'll note that the platform textures look exactly the same in both 1080p and 480p.  You're confusing higher triangle counts (koopa head, eyes etc is scaled up to the same size in a larger area 720x480 vs 1920x1080 so the triangle count is also increased to compensate) and anti aliasing (frramebuffer multiplied by AA mode type then scaled down to target resolution) on the actual 3D rendered items and characters with potential WiiHD future proofing.  This is a common trait of 3D emulation and higher target resolutions.
#34 Posted by Willy105 (4688 posts) -
@SeriouslyNow said:
" @Willy105:   Dude, I hate to disappoint you but if you look at those pics, you'll note that the platform textures look exactly the same in both 1080p and 480p.  You're confusing higher triangle counts (koopa head, eyes etc is scaled up to the same size in a larger area 720x480 vs 1920x1080 so the triangle count is also increased to compensate) and anti aliasing (frramebuffer multiplied by AA mode type then scaled down to target resolution) on the actual 3D rendered items and characters with potential WiiHD future proofing.  This is a common trait of 3D emulation and higher target resolutions. "
Well the textures are not going to change, but you can definitely see more of them that you couldn't before. Which is the reason for this post.
#35 Posted by get2sammyb (6412 posts) -

Confirmed then?

#36 Posted by Al3xand3r (7574 posts) -

No.

#37 Posted by SeriouslyNow (8534 posts) -
@Willy105 said:
" @SeriouslyNow said:
" @Willy105:   Dude, I hate to disappoint you but if you look at those pics, you'll note that the platform textures look exactly the same in both 1080p and 480p.  You're confusing higher triangle counts (koopa head, eyes etc is scaled up to the same size in a larger area 720x480 vs 1920x1080 so the triangle count is also increased to compensate) and anti aliasing (frramebuffer multiplied by AA mode type then scaled down to target resolution) on the actual 3D rendered items and characters with potential WiiHD future proofing.  This is a common trait of 3D emulation and higher target resolutions. "
Well the textures are not going to change, but you can definitely see more of them that you couldn't before. Which is the reason for this post. "
No mate.  The textures are made for the target resolution and the reason you can 'see more of them' use due to raised aniso and FSAA.  That's all.  This is very common with 3D emulation.  For example the Sony Playstation did not have hardware perspective correction yet this is a common feature of all modern PC 3D acceleration cards since the 3Dfx Voodoo days, so games like Gran Turismo when emulated via ESPXE or Bleem! (two popular Playstation emulators) it looked so much better than it did on a real Playstation because the road and side details didn't get warped as they did on a real Playstation.
#38 Posted by Willy105 (4688 posts) -
@SeriouslyNow said:
" @Willy105 said:
" @SeriouslyNow said:
" @Willy105:   Dude, I hate to disappoint you but if you look at those pics, you'll note that the platform textures look exactly the same in both 1080p and 480p.  You're confusing higher triangle counts (koopa head, eyes etc is scaled up to the same size in a larger area 720x480 vs 1920x1080 so the triangle count is also increased to compensate) and anti aliasing (frramebuffer multiplied by AA mode type then scaled down to target resolution) on the actual 3D rendered items and characters with potential WiiHD future proofing.  This is a common trait of 3D emulation and higher target resolutions. "
Well the textures are not going to change, but you can definitely see more of them that you couldn't before. Which is the reason for this post. "
No mate.  The textures are made for the target resolution and the reason you can 'see more of them' use due to raised aniso and FSAA.  That's all.  This is very common with 3D emulation.  For example the Sony Playstation did not have hardware perspective correction yet this is a common feature of all modern PC 3D acceleration cards since the 3Dfx Voodoo days, so games like Gran Turismo when emulated via ESPXE or Bleem! (two popular Playstation emulators) it looked so much better than it did on a real Playstation because the road and side details didn't get warped as they did on a real Playstation. "
That's completely different. Perspective correction is made by the emulator, not the developer. But textures and polygon counts are.
 
The appropriate comeback would be that when emulated the game would have MORE polygons. That would be a big giveaway, because it would be something the developers added in, not the emulator. But an emulator fixing the polygons from moving like jello is not something the developers intended, they intended how much polygons the object has and how they are placed.
 
But this is a texture, which is made by the developer themselves and put into the game. Increasing the screen resolution won't change the resolution of the texture. The emulator could filter the texture, but this doesn't make it higher resolution and add more detail, it just makes it blurrier so that the pixels the texture is made out off aren't as annoying. It won't magically add details to something that was never there.
#39 Edited by SeriouslyNow (8534 posts) -
@Willy105: 
 
Sorry mate, wrong again.  Either you didn't read what I wrote or don't understand it.  Perspective Correction is not made by the emulation software, it's default feature of all modern 3D acceleration graphics chipsets and cards which support bilinear filtering (which means all of them since the era of the 3Dfx Voodoo).   
 
The Polygon increase comment applies to all 3D emulated games as long as the target resolution is larger.  Perspective Correction was used as another example where default features of one type increase the quality of the output of the thing being emulated .
 
As to the texture, FSAA is about increasing the IQ of the rendered screen.  It's hard to know what AA type was applied but if it was any of the Q modes then the picture is broken into blocks and the edges are analysed in a grid, that grid is rotated, sharpened, rotated back and then passed  back to the framebuffer where each frame is stitched back together.  This will indeed sharpen some textures, especially those at the edges of polys. Nvidia also has some texture sharpening support for OpenGL which can by enabled independently of AA via Rivatuner.  Texture sharpening does not indicate a higher resolution texture.

You're grasping at straws mate.  Really.  I'm not making bad comparisons,  You're just hoping I am.
#40 Posted by Willy105 (4688 posts) -
@SeriouslyNow said:
" @Willy105: 
 
Sorry mate, wrong again.  Either you didn't read what I wrote or don't understand it.  Perspective Correction is not made by the emulation software, it's default feature of all modern 3D acceleration graphics chipsets and cards which support bilinear filtering (which means all of them since the era of the 3Dfx Voodoo).      The Polygon increase comment applies to all 3D emulated games as long as the target resolution is larger.  Perspective Correction was used as another example where default features of one type increase the quality of the output of the thing being emulated .  As to the texture, FSAA is about increasing the IQ of the rendered screen.  It's hard to know what AA type was applied but if it was any of the Q modes then the picture is broken into blocks and the edges are analysed in a grid, that grid is rotated, sharpened, rotated back and then passed  back to the framebuffer where each frame is stitched back together.  This will indeed sharpen some textures, especially those at the edges of polys. Nvidia also has some texture sharpening support for OpenGL which can by enabled independently of AA via Rivatuner.  Texture sharpening does not indicate a higher resolution texture.You're grasping at straws mate.  Really.  I'm not making bad comparisons,  You're just hoping I am. "
It may be the default of what modern graphics cards can do now, but it wasn't on the Playstation, which you brought up. Developers had to live with the PSX's jello walls because they couldn't fix it. Polygon count is also becoming like that with Tessalation. But until those new cards come out, polygon count is determined by the developers, just like textures.
 
You explain how textures are filtered, but you know that detail can't be added to them, just made smoother, so you see less pixels composing up the texture. It doesn't generate lips on Mario''s face or fur texture on Sonic. It has to be added by the developer. 
 
I am not hoping you are making bad comparisons, because it doesn't help the argument. But you still haven't proved the conspiracy theory wrong.
#41 Posted by SeriouslyNow (8534 posts) -
@Willy105: 
 
Again.  High resolution and high poly counts are NOT features of the Wii, yet Dolphin with FSAA and Aniso makes those emulated Wii games look more detailed than they really are.  Please don't confuse hardware tessellation with natural tessellation as a part of telling the GPU to draw a thing of certain size in an area which also been scaled up.
 
Also Texture Sharpening.  Look it up, don't just shake your head and pretend it doesn't exist.
 
I'm not here to prove anything.  I'm just dealing with the facts.  You're trying to prove me wrong to justify your idea.  It's not working mate.
#42 Posted by torus (1096 posts) -
@SeriouslyNow: Is this a joke? You cannot add polygons to a 3d model. A GPU can add polygons to a patch, but an emulator is not going to add polygons to a model. The resolution of a 3d model is completely independent of the display resolution. I call bullshit unless you can provide me documentation otherwise. 
#43 Posted by SeriouslyNow (8534 posts) -
@torus said:
" @SeriouslyNow: Is this a joke? You cannot add polygons to a 3d model. A GPU can add polygons to a patch, but an emulator is not going to add polygons to a model. The resolution of a 3d model is completely independent of the display resolution. I call bullshit unless you can provide me documentation otherwise.  "
That depends on whether the emulation is Low Level (LLE) or High Level (HLE).  Dolphin is a High Level emulator, much like the first working Nintendo 64 emulator; UltraHLE .  It doesn't require a bios because it does not emulate what is not necessary.  The Gamecube and Wii both use rather old and commonly known practices when it comes to screen rendering, so HLE is enough to be able to get many games to run.  So when the emulator is told to draw the screen space at a resolution which the Wii could never do it scales all the 3D objects via tessellation to match the target res, so that the rest of the scene will look referentially the same as it would on a real Wii.  Call bullshit all you want, I'm not going supply anything.  Go look for yourself. :)
#44 Edited by torus (1096 posts) -
@SeriouslyNow said:

" @torus said:

" @SeriouslyNow: Is this a joke? You cannot add polygons to a 3d model. A GPU can add polygons to a patch, but an emulator is not going to add polygons to a model. The resolution of a 3d model is completely independent of the display resolution. I call bullshit unless you can provide me documentation otherwise.  "
That depends on whether the emulation is Low Level (LLE) or High Level (HLE).  Dolphin is a High Level emulator, much like the first working Nintendo 64 emulator; UltraHLE .  It doesn't require a bios because it does not emulate what is not necessary.  The Gamecube and Wii both use rather old and commonly known practices when it comes to screen rendering, so HLE is enough to be able to get many games to run.  So when the emulator is told to draw the screen space at a resolution which the Wii could never do it scales all the 3D objects via tessellation to match the target res, so that the rest of the scene will look referentially the same as it would on a real Wii.  Call bullshit all you want, I'm not going supply anything.  Go look for yourself. :) "
The first part of this post is irrelevant. The second is just a reiteration of what you already posted, with no backing to your statement. You are flat out wrong. An emulator can't 'tessellate' more detail into a model than already exists. This is simply not how tessellation works. There are ways to make a model look better through software, such as displacement mapping, but this isn't going to magically improve the image quality beyond what is created by the developer. 
 
This guy doesn't know what he's talking about.
#45 Posted by SeriouslyNow (8534 posts) -
@torus said:
" @SeriouslyNow said:

" @torus said:

" @SeriouslyNow: Is this a joke? You cannot add polygons to a 3d model. A GPU can add polygons to a patch, but an emulator is not going to add polygons to a model. The resolution of a 3d model is completely independent of the display resolution. I call bullshit unless you can provide me documentation otherwise.  "
That depends on whether the emulation is Low Level (LLE) or High Level (HLE).  Dolphin is a High Level emulator, much like the first working Nintendo 64 emulator; UltraHLE .  It doesn't require a bios because it does not emulate what is not necessary.  The Gamecube and Wii both use rather old and commonly known practices when it comes to screen rendering, so HLE is enough to be able to get many games to run.  So when the emulator is told to draw the screen space at a resolution which the Wii could never do it scales all the 3D objects via tessellation to match the target res, so that the rest of the scene will look referentially the same as it would on a real Wii.  Call bullshit all you want, I'm not going supply anything.  Go look for yourself. :) "
The first part of this post is irrelevant. The second is just a reiteration of what you already posted, with no backing to your statement. You are flat out wrong. An emulator can't 'tessellate' more detail into a model than already exists. This is simply not how tessellation works. There are ways to make a model look better through software, such as displacement mapping, but this isn't going to magically improve the image quality beyond what is created by the developer.  This guy doesn't know what he's talking about. "
Sure mate.  :)
#46 Posted by torus (1096 posts) -
@SeriouslyNow: Smiley-face all you want, but that doesn't change the fact that you're talking out of your ass.
#47 Posted by SeriouslyNow (8534 posts) -

LOL

#48 Posted by Willy105 (4688 posts) -
@SeriouslyNow said:
" LOL "
Remember:
 

 Increasing the screen resolution won't make this....

 

 ...to become into this.
#49 Posted by SeriouslyNow (8534 posts) -
@Willy105: 
 
Duh.  You're not making your stance any clearer with THAT kind of stupidity.
#50 Posted by LiquidPrince (15843 posts) -

Meh. I just want to play Muramasa.

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