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Added by Jeff Gerstmann on June 30, 2009

I've been chewing on this Digital Spy story for a bit now. Last week, they spoke with Daniel Jones, the managing director at Binary Tweed, an independent game developer that released Clover , a watercolor-styled platforming game that was released as a Community Game on the Xbox 360 via the XNA Creators program. In the story, Jones comes across as disappointed with the sales for Clover. Here's what he had to say:

"It's a shame to say that Clover has not sold as many copies as we'd hoped for. As it stands, through Community Games alone, we definitely won't recoup costs."

I gave the trial for Clover a shot, and as it has a reference to UK: Resistance in it, I'm just going to go ahead and say that it's probably pretty cool. I guess what I'm trying to say is that I'm not trying to say anything about the quality of this specific product. But at what point did people start expecting that the Xbox Community Games thing was going to be a means to create a profitable business? Wasn't this whole thing always aimed at bedroom developer type people who are kind of just creating things in their spare time, perhaps with hopes of learning something along the way?

The XNA Creators Club site certainly doesn't go out of its way to claim that it's there so people can go about the business of doing business. It's all about dreams and wishes and free development tools:

If you’ve ever dreamed of making your own video games and sharing them with the world, then the XNA Creators Club and community games are for you. It’s game development for everybody – games created by the community, reviewed by the community, and played by everyone.

Obviously, yes, they let you set a price for your final product once you get it posted up in the difficult-to-navigate Community Games section on Xbox Live. So there's certainly the potential for getting some money coming in. But if anyone thought this was going to be some kind of weird road-to-the-riches, I think they've been led astray.

So it's hard for me to feel too sorry for people who are discovering that this whole process is not economically viable. I don't really think this whole thing was ever supposed to be a get rich quick scheme. Heck, they won't even send you a check until your cut of your game's sales hits $150. I have to imagine that almost all of the developers out there putting these games out aren't hitting that mark. Does any of this surprise you? Do you think that this should be a path to success for independent developers?

Speaking of being "not economically viable," I leave you with this important and obviously relevant video:
 
  

Filed under : Clover

68 Comments

LiquidPrince
on June 30, 2009
Yes, relevant indeed.

Luke
on June 30, 2009
One of my boys is currently making an XNA game. 

He's shown me a couple of videos of him playing it and I'm probably gunna help him test it here soon. 

Maybe I should link him to this Article? 

Ouroboros
on June 30, 2009
I've bought a whole heap of Community games, albeit only the good ones (around 15 or so) and I do love them dearly.  My only gripe is that they can only be played while online.  I think the major issues are 1) the development time and cost and 2) the actual cut Microsoft syphons from the sale.  I think if people are actually serious about developing games it can be used to springboard them to something bigger but I think the think big or go home mentality should be common sense and they should develop for something more significant then XNA if they dont want to be dissapointed.  The problem is that there is a lot of crap out there, not just XNA games that true talent really does get lost in the mess.

StarFoxA
on June 30, 2009
I've only bought one Community Game, and that was because I had a left over 200 points (I bought Johnny Platform's Biscuit Romp because I heard it was decent).

Crixaliz
on June 30, 2009
What movie is that from?

Spoonman
on June 30, 2009
 With the kind of success people are having on the iphone it's kind of hard for people to not try and translate that into success on other platforms.  XNA seems to be more of giving people a taste of game development rather than actually making them into any measure of a developer.  Granted there are some people that are making some really interesting things on XNA, but until microsoft sees fit to give community games a real chance to shine up next to the arcade games i can't imagine many games really making money.

NickM
on June 30, 2009
Didn't Hamst3r earn a shitload of cash by making a Community Game?

Funger
on June 30, 2009
The problem with Community games is the very nature of the games themselves.  All that I want to experience from a community game I can get from a short demo.

Keyser_Soze
on June 30, 2009
@Crixaliz: Falling Down. I think it's supposed to signify that if GiantBomb doesn't ever work out, Jeff is gonna go on a murder spree and make a Giant-Bomb statement.

Sweep
on June 30, 2009
The first dude to just say "Fuck It" and release his game free is going to be sorted - Because everyone will download it. This will get him noticed, and hopefully hired into a real dev team. That's when he gets his money back. Hoping to make a profit on the cost of the game alone is dumb.

Although to be fair, this is all Microsoft being an idiot. All community games should be free to the public and microsoft should just pay the dudes what make the games, straight up.

Venatio
on June 30, 2009
Falling Down is an awesome movie

STEVEOO6
on June 30, 2009
Falling Down (with Michael Douglas)

Meltbrain is online
on June 30, 2009
@Crixaliz said:
" What movie is that from? "
Falling Down.

JJOR64 is online
on June 30, 2009
$20 says they would sell more if they had achievements.

ZmillA
on June 30, 2009
falling down is a great movie

sneaky77
on June 30, 2009
People that thought they were going to be able to make a living just by community games had the wrong idea from the beginning.

End_Boss
on June 30, 2009
@Sweep said:
" The first dude to just say "Fuck It" and release his game free is going to be sorted - Because everyone will download it. This will get him noticed, and hopefully hired into a real dev team. That's when he gets his money back. Hoping to make a profit on the cost of the game alone is dumb.Although to be fair, this is all Microsoft being an idiot. All community games should be free to the public and microsoft should just pay the dudes what make the games, straight up. "
Dude, that is just not a reasonable thing to do, as a business. Yeah, Microsoft has the resources to do it without blinking an eyelash but... Where are the pros, from their point of view?

Azteck
on June 30, 2009
XNA always seemed like more of a home-developer kind of thing, you won't make real cash unless it's in a box on top of a shelf.

However, I'm sure you could make a few bucks off a good game which isn't priced super high priced.

evaNERV
on June 30, 2009
I personally think the issue with the Independent Games on X360 is the market of the X360. I have gone in there and bought two games... and snooped around and tried others. My feelings are when I'm firing up a $300 machine, on my LCD, with internet connection... I'll go play one of my overpriced $60 online games with my friends or a much more robust game. I have limited time to to play my consoles and especially the more involved console games (Fallout, Fable 2, Burnout).

If I want a low production value game, I'll grab my PSP, DS, or iTouch to do that where I can play it anywhere. Those systems I can pop out and play those types of games when I have 10-20 minutes of downtime... cooking, grilling, waiting in line, whatever.

For me, there is no need for smaller games on the X360. I have more than enough devices to play them on and in a more convenient matter.

HomemadeZiggurat
on June 30, 2009
I love Falling Down.


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