3D Effect Can Be Switched Off

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#1 Posted by Linkyshinks (9881 posts) -
Nintendo's president, Satoru Iwata, has revealed the stereoscopic 3D effect used in "3DS", is optional. Iwata-san speaking in a recent investors meeting acknowledged that some gamers may not want to use the feature, and also and that some, because of underlying health conditions, could suffer some mild side-effects. As a result 3D can be disabled. 
  
Since the "3DS" was announced, I've suspected Nintendo are holding back on something huge, I really don't think the 3D effect is the biggest draw and incentive to buy this of this new machine, this news for me only confirms my suspicions.  
 
This years E3 will of course tell all.  
 
I'm personally hoping for, what I am calling "Virtual Gameboy, I think such a feature could effectively kill the handheld competition for years to come. Contemplate just how many awesome games have appeared on the Gameboy lines throughout the years. 
 

http://www.nintendo.co.jp/corporate/index.html    

#2 Posted by dustbunny (37 posts) -

Virtual Gameboy or Virtual Boy. Don't forget how stupid the Virtual Boy was. So called "3D gaming" doesn't seem appealing at all considering how hard it is on the eyes.

#3 Posted by oldschool (7264 posts) -

I think I may be one of those that could get sick.  Hell, there is the occasional handheld game that can make me sick, Animal Crossing for one.  I agree, there is far more news being kept for the official launch and 3D was just the opener.  Count me excited at the prospect.

#4 Posted by Icemael (6312 posts) -

Best news I've heard all week. I couldn't stand the "groundbreaking", "amazing" 3D effects in Avatar, so I can't even imagine how much I'd hate (presumably) significantly worse 3D on a small handheld device. I like my games the way they are and being forced to play, say, the next Castlevania or Pokemon with awful 3D effects would've be a serious turnoff.

#5 Posted by gunslingerNZ (1899 posts) -

Oh so the one reason they're touting for the upgrade doesn't even need to be used *laughs*. Still I guess it's good people are being given options but the option not to buy seems most appealing so far.

#6 Posted by Icemael (6312 posts) -
@gunslingerNZ: It's the new Nintendo handheld. It's going to have Mario, Zelda, Castlevania, Pokemon, Ace Attorney, Final Fantasy and Mega Man. 
 
Trust me, you'll buy it. In fact, they could completely remove the 3D feature, and you'd probably still buy it.
#7 Posted by Meowayne (6084 posts) -

Horrible news. Imagine the DS was designed in a way that there could not be games that required the touchscreen. 
 
Making it optional for developers to use - yes. Of course. They are (probably) using parallax barrier technology, so the 3D effect can be turned on and off from the software.  I like that there are games on the DS that require neither double screens, nor touch screen, nor the microphone or any of that. 

Making it optional for the gamers to turn on and off - no. Because that means no games build around the technology, turning it into a gimmick. 
 
I was looking forward to game design inspired by a new technology and new possibilities. Bummer. :(
 

 

#8 Posted by Shirogane (3563 posts) -

Dissidia on PSP makes me sick, so it's probably a good thing to be able to turn it off. Whether i get a 3DS is another story though. I feel that by the time it comes out, handheld gaming won't be a major thing for me anymore, or i'll be spending all my time on SC2 and D3.
#9 Posted by Al3xand3r (7574 posts) -
@Meowayne said:
Horrible news. Imagine the DS was designed in a way that there could not be games that required the touchscreen.   Making it optional for developers to use - yes. Of course. They are (probably) using parallax barrier technology, so the 3D effect can be turned on and off from the software.  I like that there are games on the DS that require neither double screens, nor touch screen, nor the microphone or any of that.  Making it optional for the gamers to turn on and off - no. Because that means no games build around the technology, turning it into a gimmick.   I was looking forward to game design inspired by a new technology and new possibilities. Bummer. :(
Um? Pray tell how a 3D screen technology would enhance gameplay... It's just a visual gimmick at all times so it's good it can be turned off.
#10 Posted by Icemael (6312 posts) -
@Meowayne said:
"Making it optional for the gamers to turn on and off - no. Because that means no games build around the technology, turning it into a gimmick."
3D has always been, and will always be (until we have the tech for virtual reality) a gimmick. It's just a neat little visual trick. Not some great innovation that can be cleverly integrated into a game's mechanics.
#11 Posted by Xpgamer7 (2377 posts) -

I really don't care for 3D effects at the moment. But in the future when nintendo makes game with high end graphics I can imagine it. just thinking of those cards that you can see depth in pictures or those TVs at airports that show 3D make me believe that eventually it won't be like the virtual boy but actual good looking 3D. But first nintendo needs to make their consoles stronger.
#12 Posted by MB (11988 posts) -
@Linkyshinks: Do you think switching the 3D off could improve battery life on this device? I'm only asking because you probably have been following this thing closer than anyone else on the site.
Moderator
#13 Edited by Al3xand3r (7574 posts) -
@Linkyshinks said:

There is this one game that uses a 3D effect, by way of motion detection via the DS camera, but that's it.

Yup. So in 3D in something like this elements could appar as if they pop out of the screen, or are further away, but that's just an illusion. The game's obviously perfectly playable in the "2D" DSi (all it seems to do is headtracking using the camera basically), and 3D would just enhance its visual style.

I really can't think of how 3D can change gameplay, not with the way these technologies work. Maybe when they have 3D holograms you can interact with, like a touch screen with actual depth rather than a flat surface. Maybe 5 gens from now :P
#14 Posted by WilliamRLBaker (4777 posts) -

Good To hear because otherwise I'd never buy it.

#15 Posted by gunslingerNZ (1899 posts) -
@Icemael: Why get it if it's not offering anything over the good old DS? Nintendo's already shown they're not willing to make exclusive games for their hardware 'revisions', just look at DSi. The only reason people will buy it is if they make exclusive games for it and if they do that they're banking a lot on those millions of DS owners opening their wallets.
#16 Edited by Al3xand3r (7574 posts) -
@gunslingerNZ said:

"@Icemael: Why get it if it's not offering anything over the good old DS?"

Why did people get a PS2 after a PS1? It only had better graphics and stuff. The 3DS is not another revision as far as we know, it's their new handheld, and keeps the DS brand because of its popularity (and the way having two screens differentiates them from the normal), just like Game Boy Advance did the same before the DS. Also, it's kinda early to judge a system we know next to nothing of, other than that it's 3D capable and also has two screens, don't you think? As for the first DS, it's not like they're the only company to make different revisions of their hardware, it's nothing out of the ordinary. How many PS3 and 360 models are there? How many PSP models? Even PS1 had a redesign. New revisions are mostly for new buyers, not for people to buy a second system, though with the improvements some of the DS models brought, many people did just that, but that was up to them and there was no promise of exclusive content, other than DSiWare which fulfills its purpose. The DS will be just about 6 years old when the 3DS launches, it's a very reasonable time frame for a successor.
#17 Edited by Icemael (6312 posts) -
@gunslingerNZ: The 3DS isn't a simple hardware revision like the DS Lite or the DSi. It's a whole new device. It is to the DS what the Game Boy Advance was to the Game Boy Color.
 
So you better believe it's going to have exclusive games. Mario, Zelda, Pokemon et al.
#18 Posted by get2sammyb (6412 posts) -

I don't understand. What's the point in having it then? That's like being able to "turn off" the touchscreen of the DS right? I'll refrain further judgement until I see it in action, mind.

#19 Edited by Al3xand3r (7574 posts) -

The point of having it is that it's cool. The point of being able to disable it is that it may cause issues for certain individuals. I dunno what's hard to get? It's not comparable to the touch screen seeing as it's a mere visual effect and not a core gameplay feature like the touchscreen was to many games. Unless we assume Nintendo isn't using a 3D screen as speculated but instead invented interactive 3D holograms in which case, yes, it's like disabling the touch screen.

#20 Edited by Meowayne (6084 posts) -
@Al3xand3r said:

"Um? Pray tell how a 3D screen technology would enhance gameplay... It's just a visual gimmick at all times so it's good it can be turned off. "

I'm not a developer. I asked myself the same question when I first saw the DS: "How is having two screens going to make for interesting games?"; five years later I have played many games that made me think what a great move by Nintendo this was, and how the two separate screens prompted some interesting and unique gameplay and design decisions. Everything about the DS seemed extremely gimmicky at the time, but developers have made great use of all its features.  The same goes for the Wii.
 
When news of the 3DS hit the web, my first reaction was: This is the next stage of Nintendo introducing crazy hardware and forcing themselves and devs to explore new lands and have us do stuff we never did or thought of doing before.
Now this news, basically, is the following: "This device will only have games that can also function WITHOUT the new technology". I find that immensely disappointing.Whats left is the new Nintendo handheld with better graphics that also has the cool little optional ability to display the game worlds in 3D. Which is cool, but not enough for me to warrant a new Nintendo platform. 
 
I was hoping for new gaming experiences. Not "just" stuff I have done before with better visuals.
#21 Posted by Icemael (6312 posts) -
@Meowayne: The advantages of having two screens and touch control are painfully obvious. The second screen allows for more information to be displayed, and the touch screen offers a method of control that, in certain cases, is superior to buttons. 
 
3D effects offer no such benefits. If the 3DS had a Natal-like camera that picked up your movement in 3D space, I suppose there'd be uses for the 3D effects. But it doesn't, and there aren't.
#22 Edited by Meowayne (6084 posts) -

No one could have predicted The World Ends With You or Hotel Dusk when the DS was launched. Therefore, "3D wouldn't have made for interesting games anyway" is not an argument. 
 
We are talking perceptible depth and interactivity here. No way in hell you can tell me a clever designer wouldn't create something amazing with it.

#23 Posted by JeffGoldblum (3700 posts) -
@get2sammyb said:
" I don't understand. What's the point in having it then? That's like being able to "turn off" the touchscreen of the DS right? I'll refrain further judgement until I see it in action, mind. "
Well there are plenty of DS games that don't use the touchscreen, but I'm with the OP on this one. I think 3D will be a minor new feature on a device with many new features.
#24 Posted by Meowayne (6084 posts) -
@JeffGoldblum said:
" @get2sammyb said:
" I don't understand. What's the point in having it then? That's like being able to "turn off" the touchscreen of the DS right? I'll refrain further judgement until I see it in action, mind. "
Well there are plenty of DS games that don't use the touchscreen"
Yes, and there should be plenty of 3DS games that don't use the 3D effect. But a developer who wants to make a game requiring 3D should be able to do so.
#25 Edited by Al3xand3r (7574 posts) -
@Meowayne said:

" No one could have predicted The World Ends With You or Hotel Dusk when the DS was launched. Therefore, "3D wouldn't have made for interesting games anyway" is not an argument.   We are talking perceptible depth and interactivity here. No way in hell you can tell me a clever designer wouldn't create something amazing with it. "

We're not talking perceptible depth and interactivity, we're talking things seeming to have depth, but with no added interactivity. Ie, an image will appear to be popping out of the screen, but in gameplay terms it's the exact same in 2D. It's not further away than the other objects around it when seen in 3D or anything of the sort, it just looks more, well, real. You can't make the 3D interactive when it's just a visual trick on a screen that's still 2D. What will you do, touch an object without touching the screen because it looks to be popping out of it? Or lean around it to view and poke its side? How would that be possible when the touch screen is still a flat surface? 3D is just a visual trick, it adds nothing to the gameplay, not without more potential technologies added on top of just the 3D effect.
#26 Posted by Meowayne (6084 posts) -

Where did I say anything about 3D manipulation?

#27 Edited by Icemael (6312 posts) -
@Meowayne said:

" No one could have predicted The World Ends With You or Hotel Dusk when the DS was launched. Therefore, "3D wouldn't have made for interesting games anyway" is not an argument.   We are talking perceptible depth and interactivity here. No way in hell you can tell me a clever designer wouldn't create something amazing with it. "

I haven't played Hotel Dusk so I don't know what that game did, but The World Ends With You was just an application of the benefits I mentioned; more information (battles at both screens at once) and a method of control that's sometimes superior to buttons (touch controlled combat on the lower screen).
 
Could I have predicted that a developer would use those assets in the specific way The World Ends With You did? Probably not. Could I have predicted that those assets would be used? Yes; and I did. And I'm telling you that without a Natal-like camera (or possibly tilt control, depending on how exactly the 3D will work) 3D isn't something that can be integrated into a game's mechanics. We already have perceptible depth in regular "3D" games, so that doesn't add shit.
#28 Posted by Rallier (1739 posts) -

Well looks like I am Meowayne are the only two who are not all that pleased with this news. 
 
Surely this quote is not about some kind of switch on the side of the new thing that turns it off for all games? That would be ridiculous.

#29 Edited by Al3xand3r (7574 posts) -
@Icemael said:

And I'm telling you that without a Natal-like camera (or possibly tilt control, depending on how exactly the 3D will work) 3D isn't something that can be integrated into a game's mechanics.

Yep, it's like the video linky posted in the last page, that's using the camera to basically let you control the game with your head, but it does it in a way that makes it look 3D, like looking out of a window, with the way it changes the perspective as you move the DS around, ie, your head moves in comparison to the DS. 3D could possibly enhance the visual look of the game but it's a concept that works fine in 2D and isn't enhanced by 3D in any gameplay way.

@Rallier said:

Surely this quote is not about some kind of switch on the side of the new thing that turns it off for all games? That would be ridiculous.

It's exactly what they should do actually, so people with issues can easily turn it off without even navigating menus or anything. With the info we have now the 3D is just a visual effect, if they don't disclose added features that could potentially allow for new gameplay only in cojunction with the 3D, this is the best way.
#30 Posted by xyzygy (9895 posts) -
@Meowayne said:
" Horrible news. Imagine the DS was designed in a way that there could not be games that required the touchscreen.                                           "
My favorite games on the DS require absolute zero use of the touchscreen.
#31 Posted by Rallier (1739 posts) -
@Al3xand3r said:


@Rallier said:

Surely this quote is not about some kind of switch on the side of the new thing that turns it off for all games? That would be ridiculous.

It's exactly what they should do actually, so people with issues can easily turn it off without even navigating menus or anything. With the info we have now the 3D is just a visual effect, if they don't disclose added features that could potentially allow for new gameplay only in cojunction with the 3D, this is the best way. "
Heck no, the option to switch it of for games should be present in the option menus of the game that only use it for a visual effect. Having such a switch will surely discourage developers to experiment with new mechanics that use the 3D function since users will start to expect that games should play the same with it on or off.
#32 Edited by Al3xand3r (7574 posts) -

Like what function can there be other than a visual effect? That's all these 3D techs are. What do you expect, interactive holograms? In any case it's not hard for a game to have "Please keep the 3D function enabled for the full experience" on the cover, or the back of it. Heck, it should be stated if it requires that anyway (still don't see how it can require it, but anyway) for people who have trouble with that tech, so they can easily avoid purchasing it. That's like saying having a wi-fi switch is the reason people don't make online PSP games (which they don't, but that's not the cause).

#33 Posted by FreakAche (2949 posts) -

Hopefully, this announcement will change the minds of some of the naysayers. I for one know the 3DS will be a worthwhile purchase. How can I know that? Because it's a Nintendo handheld.

#34 Posted by Meowayne (6084 posts) -
@xyzygy said:
" @Meowayne said:
" Horrible news. Imagine the DS was designed in a way that there could not be games that required the touchscreen.                                           "
My favorite games on the DS require absolute zero use of the touchscreen. "
That's absolutely fine. There are plenty of good games available that don't use it. But developers who want to make a game that needs a touchscreen can make a game that needs a touchscreen.
 
Al3x: Color is a visual effect as well. That doesn't mean it can't be used for gameplay. 
 
Rallier gets my point. There is no specific thing I want or imagine with the 3D technology. But I want developers to experiment with it and maybe come up with something. A 3D on/off switch on the device for the user to use to his/her liking discourages that experimentation, and that is what I don't want.
#35 Edited by Rallier (1739 posts) -

UI design is the main thing that comes to mind. 
 
People said the same thing about the DS its two screens when that came out. Afterall that also is just a visual effect and see how many games have benefited from it. 
 
Looks like i'm repeating what others have already said before me.

#36 Edited by Willy105 (4688 posts) -

Just like how the second screen of the DS can be switched off, and how the microphone can be switched off.
 
I doubt many developers will choose to not use it.
 
@gunslingerNZ said:

" Oh so the one reason they're touting for the upgrade doesn't even need to be used *laughs*. Still I guess it's good people are being given options but the option not to buy seems most appealing so far. "


Sounds like a stupid reason to stay with a last gen console and not go into next-gen. You probably never bought a current gen console because you thought HD and motion control were dumb gimmicks. Why get a new one when the PS2, Xbox, and Gamecube still work fine?
 
@Linkyshinks said:

" There is this one game that uses a 3D effect, by way of motion detection via the DS camera, but that's it.
 

But there's no reason for the 3DS to be like that. That is not real 3D. It's 2D when you look at it in real life. It only looks 3D because of the visual imperfections of 2D video.
#37 Edited by Al3xand3r (7574 posts) -
@Rallier said:

" UI design is the main thing that comes to mind. "

Um, okay, and how is that more than a 3D effect that works just the same in terms of gameplay whether enabled or disabled?

@Willy105 said:

Sounds like a stupid reason to stay with a last gen console and not go into next-gen. You probably never bought a current gen console because you thought HD and motion control were dumb gimmicks. Why get a new one when the PS2, Xbox, and Gamecube still work fine?

Dude, SEGA Saturn is where it's at, Shining Force III, Grandia, Nights, Panzer Dragoon, and a lack of Sonic games, what more do you need?
#38 Posted by Rallier (1739 posts) -
@Al3xand3r said:
" @Rallier said:

" UI design is the main thing that comes to mind. "

Um, okay, and how is that more than a 3D effect that works just the same in terms of gameplay whether enabled or disabled? "
How about a tab that start floating when a character is ready for an attack in a RPG?
 
Man i should be a game designer
#39 Edited by Al3xand3r (7574 posts) -
@Rallier said:

" @Al3xand3r said:

" @Rallier said:

" UI design is the main thing that comes to mind. "

Um, okay, and how is that more than a 3D effect that works just the same in terms of gameplay whether enabled or disabled? "
How about a tab that start floating when a character is ready for an attack in a RPG? Man i should be a game designer "
Okay, so it's floating when you have 3D enabled, and is not floating when it's disabled, How does that affect the gameplay, for the design to be compromised if the designers feel that many users will turn the 3D off? It's the same game and just has a 3D effect, when enabled. How is that more than a 3D effect?
#40 Posted by Meowayne (6084 posts) -
@Rallier said:
How about a tab that start floating when a character is ready for an attack in a RPG? Man i should be a game designer "
No, this is not the stuff I'm talking about. This is nothing new, just a slight visual enhancement.
#41 Edited by Rallier (1739 posts) -
@Al3xand3r said:

" @Rallier said:

" UI design is the main thing that comes to mind. "

Um, okay, and how is that more than a 3D effect that works just the same in terms of gameplay whether enabled or disabled?

@Willy105

said:

Sounds like a stupid reason to stay with a last gen console and not go into next-gen. You probably never bought a current gen console because you thought HD and motion control were dumb gimmicks. Why get a new one when the PS2, Xbox, and Gamecube still work fine?

Dude, SEGA Saturn is where it's at, Shining Force III, Grandia, Nights, Panzer Dragoon, and a lack of Sonic games, what more do you need? "
Well if the played would turn it of he would not see if the character is ready for the attack and the developer would have to completely redesign the game to also work when the mode is turned off. 
 
I'm thinking of starting "Rallier Future Game Design" or "Refugade"
 
@Meowayne said:
" @Rallier said:
How about a tab that start floating when a character is ready for an attack in a RPG? Man i should be a game designer "
No, this is not the stuff I'm talking about. This is nothing new, just a slight visual enhancement. "

Well i just started my company ^^ I'll come up with something better for my next game. I'm quite curious what actual good ideas actual developers will come up with. 
#42 Edited by Al3xand3r (7574 posts) -

Okay, it means a lot that's the best you can come up with, a mere GUI element that works just the same with or without 3D. How about solving that all important issue by having the tab both float AND blink in a different color AND have a sound effect so that people who turn the thing off and people who are colorblind can all tell when they can attack (unless they're deaf and colorblind I guess)? Problem solved, design not compromised, hurray.

#43 Posted by Milkman (16531 posts) -

Why center your console around a feature that can be turned off? It doesn't make any sense. If Nintendo wanted to call the console the "DS 2" and then say "some games are going to be in 3D if you want", then fine. But calling your console the 3DS (I know it's not the official name yet) and then saying that 3D isn't essential is completely backwards logic.

#44 Posted by Linkyshinks (9881 posts) -

Their both right dude. You should give up your hopes of becoming a designer :) 
 
I'm personally baffled when contemplating how any developer could use it in a way which brings about new gameplay. I think It may be impossible unless it's used in addition with another feature the 3DS may have. 
 
 
@Meowayne said:

" @Rallier said:
How about a tab that start floating when a character is ready for an attack in a RPG? Man i should be a game designer "
No, this is not the stuff I'm talking about. This is nothing new, just a slight visual enhancement. "
 
Well what are you talking about, you've yet to give us one example.
#45 Posted by Icemael (6312 posts) -
@Rallier said:
" @Al3xand3r said:
" @Rallier said:

" UI design is the main thing that comes to mind. "

Um, okay, and how is that more than a 3D effect that works just the same in terms of gameplay whether enabled or disabled?"
Well if the played would turn it of he would not see if the character is ready for the attack and the developer would have to completely redesign the game to also work when the mode is turned off.   I'm thinking of starting "Rallier Future Game Design" or "Refugade" "
You could simply have the tab change colour, start blinking or having its text go bold when the character's ready to attack. Not only would those effects fill the exact same function as the tab popping up -- they'd be better at it, too, as they'd catch your attention far more effectively than the tab rising slightly above the screen. 
 
Face it, without some complementary function such as a Natal camera or tilt control, there's absolutely nothing you can do with 3D beyond visual enhancement. Even Nintendo agrees, as proven by their choice to make it optional.
#46 Posted by Willy105 (4688 posts) -
@Milkman said:
" Why center your console around a feature that can be turned off? It doesn't make any sense. If Nintendo wanted to call the console the "DS 2" and then say "some games are going to be in 3D if you want", then fine. But calling your console the 3DS (I know it's not the official name yet) and then saying that 3D isn't essential is completely backwards logic. "
You can make your Xbox 360 and PS3 only display in SD, you know. You can also make it so that it won't go online. It's backwards logic that is a necessity for every console, because the main selling point of a console may not be why you bought it.
#47 Posted by HandsomeDead (11863 posts) -

I don't see why you'd make 3D the seeling point of a device if you can turn it off, especially when it's a brand new device. Seems like a lack of confidence in the idea.

#48 Posted by Al3xand3r (7574 posts) -

Dude, girls could also play the Game Boy! Just like people who have trouble with 3D techs can play the 3DS! Wow! Nintendo's so silly with their names!

#49 Posted by Icemael (6312 posts) -
@HandsomeDead said:
" I don't see why you'd make 3D the seeling point of a device if you can turn it off, especially when it's a brand new device. Seems like a lack of confidence in the idea. "
The 3D effects were Avatar's main selling point, and you could watch that in 2D if you wanted to. It has nothing to do with a lack of confidence.
#50 Posted by ryanwho (12082 posts) -
@Meowayne said:
" Because that means no games build around the technology, turning it into a gimmick.                                            "
So when the DS came out the stylus was basically mandatory and a bunch of gimmick games came out. They let up on that and games only used it when it made sense. When the Wii came out the Wiimote was basically mandatory, gimmick games, they let up, and mostly only games that made sense used it. So not only are you wrong, you're 180 degrees wrong. You're Bizzaro Superman.

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