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    Noitu Love 2: Devolution

    Game » consists of 6 releases. Released Apr 18, 2008

    A fast paced 2D sidescrolling action game.The players takes control of multiple characters in an attempt to take down the evil Darns.

    Noitu Love 2 Goes WiiWare

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    Al3xand3r

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    #1  Edited By Al3xand3r
    Noitu Love 2 comes to WiiWare :)
    I won't get it since I already bought it for PC ages ago but it's a perfect match for pointer use and it's a great, GREAT indie game available for just $10. I suppose the Wii version will be 1000 points as well when it hits. This is good news for people who don't game on PC, though any old PC should be able to run this.

    PS: the trailer doesn't do it justice, shitty quality and a cursor.
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    Linkyshinks

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    #2  Edited By Linkyshinks

    It's awesome news. I told the creator of the game two years ago that I thought it would be a perfect title for WiiWare.   
     
     
      

      
     
     

    My Interview With Joakim Sandberg 

    Joakim Sandberg
    Joakim Sandberg
    I recently got the opportunity to interview indie games developer Joakim Sandberg, here is that interview in full.
     
    Joakim
    Hello! I will answer as best I can. 

    Q: Do you have any plans to submit Noitu Love 2 to Nintendo for approval onto Wii Ware?. I myself think that the Wii is perfect given the nature of the control scheme you have devised, in fact I would say it could possibly improve upon the existing method. Do you think the same also?



    I would absolutely love to see it on the service as, yes, it is very fitting of the gameplay, but given the nature the game was made it would basically have to be rewritten as a dedicated Wii project, which really sucks, because I don't know any portable programming language. Maybe someday I'll have the resources to, or someone else is willing to help me.

     

    Q: What are your overall thoughts on the service Nintendo are now providing?. Have you managed to play any of these Wii Ware games yourself, like say Lost Winds etc, and what are your thoughts on them?.



    Of course I like it, it lets smaller studios get their ideas out there. I've played Lost Winds so far and I enjoyed it. I do find it a bit of a problem with storage space on the console, though, as most other avid gamers, but it's not as large an issue for me just yet as I don't download a lot of games.


    Q: Is what Nintendo are offering with Wii Ware attractive to you as a indie developer?



    Of course. If I had a small group of people (a small studio, if you will), I'd go for WiiWare first as I love to think of new ways of playing games. The process seems painless, but it seems you can't really know exactly when your game hits the service once you've submitted it. I might be wrong. But definitely, I'd love to work on it.

    caption
    caption

















    Q: What have been your favourite Nintendo games over the years, and what gaming systems were you raised on and from what age?



    I played a lot of Sega when I didn't own a console and just rented one, but when I finally got some it was always Nintendo for some reason. First of those systems was the NES, and I've owned all of them since sans the Virtual Boy. Out of all games ever my favorites are Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's Island, Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask and Metroid Fusion. From those three one can tell I love it whenever Nintendo tries something different with their main franchises.

    Q: What are your thoughts on the direction Nintendo have taken with the Wii & DS?.



    It has been very successful to them and it was the right move. Personally, as a gamer for many years, I don't play the new "casual"-labeled games much as I like games with action. I don't play many new games anymore, though. It's not that I am lost in nostalgia, I just don't find many games appealing anymore.

    Q: Is there any possibility of a DS version?


     
    It's the same dilemma as with Wii; it's not easy to port, unfortunately.

    Q: If so are you able to see ways now in which you could utilize the unique capabilties of the DS such as dual screens and microphone in a Noitu Love game?



    I wouldn't use the microphone. I see the Wii as having a lot more better features for the game. Compare it to how you make a special move by flicking the mouse right. On Wii you would just flick your wrist regardless of the edge of the screen, while the DS does have its boundaries. You could just lift the stylus and drag over and over, but I think Wii would work better for overall fluency.

    Q: Considering the success of Gunstar Future Heroes and Astroboy on GBA, Noitu Love 2 which has many similarities also seems perfect for a handheld version. 


    Maybe so. To me I play all games at home anyway, I don't really make use of the "portable" aspect. I think most "hardcore" gamers do as well. I've played very little true action games; I often tend to make games in genres I don't really play for some reason. I do love Metal Slug and Contra 3 though, but those are hardly portable.

    caption
    caption

















    Q: Is there any possibility for a fully fledged Wii game with greater polish and strengths all round in future?.

    The possibilities is entirely in the hands of some company that would hire me to do so. I have one idea, I'd love to develop for it.

    Q :Are you currently seeking to tie up some investment into such a project or you open to the idea of working with another licensed Wii developer in order to make that happen?



    I think I'd rather get hired by someone considering I don't really know the people to form my own business at that scale.

    Q: If not, are you a one man show and intend on staying that way?



    I don't particularly enjoy being a one-man army anymore as it gets tiring. I want to make bigger games now, but I don't have the resources just yet.


    What's next for Noitu Love?, and what's next for you?



    I'm not making a sequel to Noitu Love anytime soon if we're talking about making games the way I made NL2. I love that universe though, and I'd like to get back to it sometime. Right now I am still sort of contemplating my next move, but I am still trying things on the same platform as NL2.

    Q: Do you have any projects you are working on that you can give me some sneaky info on in teaser form?



    I constantly change my mind on these matters. Since I'm still starting with new things it could change tomorrow, but as of right now I am working a little on a game that involves a suitcase.


    Linkyshinks: 


    Thank you for your time Joakim, I wish you and the game all the success you can muster  :)

    Joakim: 

    No problem, it was a pleasure ;)


    Free PC Demo:  http://www.konjak.org/



    IGF 08 Seumas McNally Grand Prize Nominees:



        * Audiosurf
        * Crayon Physics Deluxe :::winner:::
        * Hammerfall
        * Noitu Love 2: Devolution
        * World of Goo

       


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    Icemael

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    #3  Edited By Icemael

    There are plenty of games, both for consoles and PC, that would benefit -- or at least not suffer -- from Wii controls. Noitu Love 2 is not one of them.

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    Al3xand3r

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    #4  Edited By Al3xand3r

    Eh, yes it is, it's mainly cursor controls which the Wii does great. I suppose if you wanna nitpick then it's less than ideal to use the nunchuck's analog stick to move instead of a d-pad (then again, using keys as on PC is less than ideal too, while it wouldn't translate well on a standard gamepad that lacks good cursor controls), but that's minor especially given this game's style. Anyway, since that trailer sucks here's some dude's playthrough of level 1.

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    Linkyshinks

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    #5  Edited By Linkyshinks
    @Icemael said:

    " There are plenty of games, both for consoles and PC, that would benefit -- or at least not suffer -- from Wii controls. Noitu Love 2 is not one of them. "

     
    You think a game which uses a pointer prominently as this game does, wont be great on WiiWare, why exactly :? Have you played the game? If you have, I'm really puzzled how anyone could think that the Wii's controls wouldn't benefit this game - It could use the Nunchuck instead of a keyboard for control, and the Wii Remote's IR instead of mouse - on both cases better control for this game than the PC original. 
     
    The game is perfect for WiiWare, I said that to the games creator in my interview above, and he replied by agreeing with me.  
     

       

    Q: Do you have any plans to submit Noitu Love 2 to Nintendo for approval onto Wii Ware?. I myself think that the Wii is perfect given the nature of the control scheme you have devised, in fact I would say it could possibly improve upon the existing method. Do you think the same also?



    I would absolutely love to see it on the service as, yes, it is very fitting of the gameplay, but given the nature the game was made it would basically have to be rewritten as a dedicated Wii project, which really sucks, because I don't know any portable programming language. Maybe someday I'll have the resources to, or someone else is willing to help me.
     

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    Icemael

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    #6  Edited By Icemael
    @Linkyshinks said:
    " @Icemael said:

    " There are plenty of games, both for consoles and PC, that would benefit -- or at least not suffer -- from Wii controls. Noitu Love 2 is not one of them. "

    You think a game which uses a pointer prominently as this game does, wont be great on WiiWare, why exactly :? Have you played the game? If you have, I'm really puzzled how anyone could think that the Wii's controls wouldn't benefit this game - It could use the Nunchuck instead of a keyboard for control, and the Wii Remote's IR instead of mouse - on both cases better control for this game than the PC original. 
     
    The game is perfect for WiiWare, I said that to the games creator in my interview above, and he replied by agreeing with me."
    I have played it. The Wii's IR control is far too shaky and imprecise for it -- not to mention that having to hold the Wiimote locked on an enemy until you've killed it sounds really uncomfortable -- and I'm pretty sure it'd severely hurt the game.
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    Al3xand3r

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    #7  Edited By Al3xand3r

    That sounds like user error, the pointer works perfectly well outside a tiny minority of games that haven't implemented it right (like Zelda's port, where it's quite laggy, but thankfully it doesn't require fast paced twitch shooting from the players). Holding the pointer @ particular points of the screen is not a problem either.

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    I_smell

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    #8  Edited By I_smell

    I can personally confirm that yo this game is fuckin sick.
    All Konjak's games are great.
     
    If you like this, try Legend of Princess.

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    Icemael

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    #9  Edited By Icemael
    @Al3xand3r said:

    " That sounds like user error, the pointer works perfectly well. Holding the pointer @ particular points of the screen is not a problem either. "

    No, it doesn't. More or less everyone that went to the Playstation Move press conference, including GiantBomb (sixth paragraph, " the Move felt like a natural and precise way to aim my weapon, without the swimminess or jitter that you sometimes get when using the Wii Remote as a pointing device"), mentioned that it's superior to the Wii in that regard. In more slow-paced games (Resident Evil 4), or games that don't require a great deal of precision (Metroid Prime 3) the jitter isn't a problem at all, which probably is why you haven't noticed it; in a game like Noitu Love 2, however, which is both (very) fast-paced and requires precision, it's going to get in the way.
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    Googly

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    #10  Edited By Googly

    Great news.  I've wanted to play this but my PC at home is broken.  Now I have no excuse not to try it.

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    Al3xand3r

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    #11  Edited By Al3xand3r
    @Icemael said:

    @Al3xand3r said:

    That sounds like user error, the pointer works perfectly well. Holding the pointer @ particular points of the screen is not a problem either.

    No, it doesn't.
    Yes it does, the pointer works perfectly well outside a tiny minority of games that haven't implemented it right (like Zelda's port, where it's quite laggy, but thankfully it doesn't require fast paced twitch shooting from the players). Holding the pointer @ particular points of the screen is not a problem either.
    Also, the GB crew suck at playing on Wii so, once again, a clear case of user error outside a tiny minority of games that haven't implemented it right.

    I suppose I should have known these posts you've been making were going to lead into Move hype/praise at the expense of Wii despite the completely different topic. Lol. And no, it's not more or less everyone that agrees, at least from actual trustworthy sources (which GB isn't when it comes to Wii related topics).

    From engadget:

    We hate to say this about "pre-alpha" software, but we're feeling lag. An on-rails shooter we tried out, dubbed The Shoot, was discernibly inferior to shooting experiences we've had on the Wii, both in precision and refresh rate of the aiming cursor.

    Other sources even mentioned the need to recalibrate the controller during The Shoot play, which shouldn't be the case as it's merely a rail shooter but whatever, it's early. Of course, the generally suspect sources failed to mention most anything negative whatsoever about the Move. Big surprise there!
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    rallier

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    #12  Edited By rallier
    @Icemael said:

    " @Al3xand3r said:

    " That sounds like user error, the pointer works perfectly well. Holding the pointer @ particular points of the screen is not a problem either. "

    No, it doesn't. More or less everyone that went to the Playstation Move press conference, including GiantBomb (sixth paragraph, " the Move felt like a natural and precise way to aim my weapon, without the swimminess or jitter that you sometimes get when using the Wii Remote as a pointing device"), mentioned that it's superior to the Wii in that regard. In more slow-paced games (Resident Evil 4), or games that don't require a great deal of precision (Metroid Prime 3) the jitter isn't a problem at all, which probably is why you haven't noticed it; in a game like Noitu Love 2, however, which is both (very) fast-paced and requires precision, it's going to get in the way. "

    Poor sensor bar placement and over lighting makes the IR sensor jitter which is easy to resolve. Sometimes the "press" does not now what the heck they are talking about. Im sure that some people would think that I am cheating when playing Ghost Squad, it is all in the wrist.
     
    Good news that this game is making it to the service. I remember "back in the day" when playing the demo wanting to try and set up the IR sensor on my PC, I already had the wiimote hooked up via bluetooth.
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    eroticfishcake

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    #13  Edited By eroticfishcake

    Interesting. I was just thinking about playing this game a few days ago since I'm going through and indie game phase. I'll probably get it on the PC but it's good to know it's on the Wii as well.

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    Al3xand3r

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    #14  Edited By Al3xand3r

    Get it wherever, it's fuckawesome. A bit short but highly replayable given its difficulty and high score based gameplay, as well as grand unlockables.

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    Icemael

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    #15  Edited By Icemael
    @Al3xand3r said:
    " @Icemael said:

    @Al3xand3r said:

    " That sounds like user error, the pointer works perfectly well. Holding the pointer @ particular points of the screen is not a problem either. "

    No, it doesn't.
    Yes it does, it works perfectly well. Also, the GB crew suck at playing on Wii so, again, user error."
    Try holding something in the air completely still. Impossible, isn't it? Yeah. And the Wiimote's IR reflects that by jittering. So unless you're some kind of robot, you either haven't actually used the Wiimote's IR, or you're lying. Hell, even in the video you provided, the cursor jitters constantly; not by much, of course, but in a game like Noitu Love 2, it's going to noticeable and, when it gets in the way -- which it will -- frustrating.
     
    @Al3xand3r said:
    "I suppose I should have known these posts you've been making were going to lead into Move hype/praise at the expense of Wii despite the completely different topic. Lol. And no, it's not more or less everyone that agrees, at least from actual trustworthy sources (which GB isn't about Wii related comments honestly)."
    Fanboy logic at its best. I provided the Playstation Move article as an example of someone mentioning the Wii controls' jittering, but of course, you interpret that as some kind of Playstation Move promotion. Here's some news for you, pal: I don't care about the Playstation Move. I think it's ridiculous, I have no intention of getting it, and I'm certainly not going to encourage others to go out and buy it. And as you said, that wasn't even the topic. The topic was the Wiimote's IR.
     
    That's why I quoted the specific sentence pertaining to the Wiimote's IR. And boldfaced the specific part of the sentence pertaining to the aspects of the Wiimote's IR we were discussing. Had you turned on your brain for two seconds, you would have realized this.
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    rallier

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    #16  Edited By rallier
    @Icemael said:

    " @Al3xand3r said:

    " @Icemael said:

    @Al3xand3r said:

    " That sounds like user error, the pointer works perfectly well. Holding the pointer @ particular points of the screen is not a problem either. "

    No, it doesn't.
    Yes it does, it works perfectly well. Also, the GB crew suck at playing on Wii so, again, user error."
    Try holding something in the air completely still. Impossible, isn't it? Yeah. And the Wiimote's IR reflects that by jittering. So unless you're some kind of robot, you either haven't actually used the Wiimote's IR, or you're lying. Hell, even in the video you provided, the cursor jitters constantly; not by much, of course, but in a game like Noitu Love 2, it's going to noticeable and, when it gets in the way -- which it will -- frustrating.

    I do not hold it in the air but pose my wrist on my lap, that is how I managed to finish Trauma Center. Give it a go and you'll see that there will be no jitter and that you'll be able to hold the cursor perfectly still.
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    Al3xand3r

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    #17  Edited By Al3xand3r
    @Icemael said:

    " @Al3xand3r said:

    " @Icemael said:

    @Al3xand3r said:

    " That sounds like user error, the pointer works perfectly well. Holding the pointer @ particular points of the screen is not a problem either. "

    No, it doesn't.
    Yes it does, it works perfectly well. Also, the GB crew suck at playing on Wii so, again, user error."
    Try holding something in the air completely still. Impossible, isn't it? Yeah. And the Wiimote's IR reflects that by jittering. So unless you're some kind of robot, you either haven't actually used the Wiimote's IR, or you're lying. Hell, even in the video you provided, the cursor jitters constantly; not by much, of course, but in a game like Noitu Love 2, it's going to noticeable and, when it gets in the way -- which it will -- frustrating.
    It sounds like you're lying and/or playing wrong. Outside playing SEGA's lightgun games, you don't generally hold it in the air (unless you want to, but then why complain, it's still exactly what I said, user error), in which case there's still no jitter, there's your own movement reflected (if your arm actually jitters as opposed to being very slightly unsteady, you should get it checked). In shooting games you generally rest your arm in your lap like any controller (or slightly against your body if standing) and work with wrist movements. Does your wrist jitter? Again, you should get that checked if so. Plenty Wii games however also have cursor smoothing (Metroid Prime 3, Red Steel 2 for example) that ignores extra tiny movements like that, but there's a fine balance to maintain as it's obviously going against precision (you totally wouldn't want any such smoothing while playing an arcade lightgun shooter like SEGA's)  so it's again a preference (of the developer or the player) thing, not a flaw in the tech. You also made a point that this "jitter" would hinder the playability of this game, as if it requires pixel perfect accuracy to go on the enemy, or as if said "jitter" can cause that much inaccuracy, and both are wrong. Calling out the Wii for such "jitter" is like saying arcade lightgun games are flawed because they don't help keep you steady and you have to actually aim. There's no jitter, there's perfectly accurate pointer control, that if you jitter, will obviously also jitter. Saying "it" jitters implies it does it on its own without input. It doesn't jitter.
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    Icemael

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    #18  Edited By Icemael
    @Rallier said:

    " @Icemael said:

    "Try holding something in the air completely still. Impossible, isn't it? Yeah. And the Wiimote's IR reflects that by jittering. So unless you're some kind of robot, you either haven't actually used the Wiimote's IR, or you're lying. Hell, even in the video you provided, the cursor jitters constantly; not by much, of course, but in a game like Noitu Love 2, it's going to noticeable and, when it gets in the way -- which it will -- frustrating.

    I do not hold it in the air but pose my wrist on my lap, that is how I managed to finish Trauma Center. Give it a go and you'll see that there will be no jitter and that you'll be able to hold the cursor perfectly still. "
    That works when you're just trying to hold it still. Noitu Love 2 is not a game where you just hold your cursor still. It's a game where you swiftly move your cursor around, stopping only for a couple of seconds at a time. To hold the cursor perfectly still after swiftly moving it around, you requires a second or two to settle down even if you're resting the Wiimote on your lap (which I sometimes do, and sometimes don't, depending on how I feel like holding it at that particular moment); this is most evident in Resident Evil 4. You can move the cursor to the general area of an enemy's head very quickly, but to get a good, steady lock, you need a second. In a game where enemies slowly plod towards you -- like, well, Resident Evil 4 -- this is fine. In a game where shit is constantly (and quickly) happening all over the screen, it's not. 
     
    @Al3xand3r said:
    " @Icemael said:
    "Try holding something in the air completely still. Impossible, isn't it? Yeah. And the Wiimote's IR reflects that by jittering. So unless you're some kind of robot, you either haven't actually used the Wiimote's IR, or you're lying. Hell, even in the video you provided, the cursor jitters constantly; not by much, of course, but in a game like Noitu Love 2, it's going to noticeable and, when it gets in the way -- which it will -- frustrating.
    It sounds like you're lying and/or playing wrong. Outside lightgun games, you don't hold it in the air (unless you want to, but then why complain), in which case there's still no "jitter", there's your own movement reflected. Plenty Wii games however have cursor smoothing (Metroid Prime 3, Red Steel 2 for example) that ignores tiny movements like that, however, but there's a fine balance as it's going against precision. "
    See my above response.
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    Al3xand3r

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    #19  Edited By Al3xand3r

    Your "above response" is still blatantly false. Resting the remote in your lap or against your body doesn't make you unable to instantly, perfectly, steadily aim anywhere on the screen using slight wrist movements. You don't nail it down. Plus, all my previous responses which still very much apply against everything you've claimed here. It's honestly quite baffling how some people (see you, the GB crew, and the like) are so clueless and/or so unable to play such simple Wii games perfectly well. There are plenty games where you need to aim accurately and fast, as in the video I've posted here twice, and plenty more, like all the SEGA lightgun shooters, and it's perfectly, easily (with some practice, as in any challenging game of course) doable outside a tiny minority of games that haven't implemented it right. In any case, you seem set on your ways so I'll agree to disagree. Fine, you get jitter, I don't, you can't do this or that, I can. By you I mean the likes of you as in the previous parenthesis and by me I mean pretty much everybody else. End of the story as far as I'm concerned, you can keep trying to convince people who don't know/do better. In other news, NOITU LOVE 2 ROCKS, GET IT ON PC OR WII PEOPLE, IT'S SO TOTALLY WORTH IT.

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    Icemael

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    #20  Edited By Icemael
    @Al3xand3r said:

    "(if your arm actually jitters as opposed to being very slightly unsteady, you should get it checked)."

    @Al3xand3r said:

    "Does your wrist jitter?"

    My arm and, if I'm resting my hand in my lap, my wrist, is slightly unsteady. The cursor jitters. It does this because a slight movement of the controller can make a huge difference on the screen. If one wanted to, one might say that the movement is magnified.
     
    I don't want to, though. Instead, I'm gonna say that it's embiggened, much like a the smallest man is embiggened by a noble spirit. 
     

    @Al3xand3r

    said:

    "Calling out the Wii for such "jitter" is like saying arcade lightgun games are flawed because they don't help keep you steady and you have to actually aim. There's no jitter, there's perfectly accurate pointer control, that if you jitter, will obviously also jitter. Saying "it" jitters implies it does it on its own without input. It doesn't jitter."

    It jitters because I move. I move because I'm human. Are you human?
     

    @Al3xand3r

     said: 

    " Your "above response" is still blatantly false. Resting the remote in your lap or against your body doesn't make you unable to instantly, perfectly, steadily aim anywhere on the screen using slight wrist movements."

    I never said resting the remote in my lap doesn't make me unable to instantly, perfectly, steadily aim anywhere on the screen using slight wrist movements. That's always impossible. 
     

    @Al3xand3r

     said: 

    "You don't nail it down. It's honestly quite baffling how some people (see you, the GB crew, and the like) are so clueless and/or unable to play such simple Wii games perfectly well. There are plenty games where you need to aim accurately and fast, as in the video I've posted here twice, and plenty more, like all the lightgun shooters, and it's perfectly, easily (with some practice, as in any challenging game) doable. "

    The video you posted, where all the targets are huge and only take one hit? 
     
    Try scoring headshot kills in Resident Evil 4 at that speed. It's doesn't work. The reason it doesn't work is that for precise aiming, you require a second of two to steady your aim. I said this in my previous post. Maybe you didn't read it.
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    AgentJ

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    #21  Edited By AgentJ

    GETTING BACK TO DISCUSSION ABOUT THE ACTUAL GAME (Alexander/Icemael, you've hijacked the thread. Take Wii accuracy elsewhere) I've never played it, but it seems like a natural fit after Cave Story made the leap. Wishlist add!
     
    Oh, and it came out on my birthday in its original release! Kickass!

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    rallier

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    #22  Edited By rallier

    Well i suppose that the conclusion of this all is that i am a robot ^^
     
    I have no problem whatsoever with fast paced Wii IR games. Trauma Center is just as hectic if not more then this game. Anyway i suppose that the special moves might be triggered by motion controls in this case and that the cursor will be used less then in the PC version/

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    Linkyshinks

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    #23  Edited By Linkyshinks

    Trying to get a follow up interview ;p

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    Al3xand3r

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    #24  Edited By Al3xand3r

    Ask him if he's a robot like me and Rallier. Maybe this whole thing is a world domination scheme. Xoda can't save you!

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