Yet another fun ass game ruined by it's hard ass difficulty.

Did meatboy start this trend??

really who enjoys these die die die die die die die die die die die die die die die die die die die die die games?

it sucks because it's really fun so far but the diffuculty is just up the ass Mortal kombat kintaro hard .

It's back to barbie super pony tales for me.

the first time I played it I had a few issues but I think that's cause I was on my laptop. When I was playing on my PC I was owning shit up.. never even got close to the rift. I don't really see how it's hard. What layouts are you using for your traps?

I just played through 10 levels on the 360 version and didn't die at all. Does it get a lot harder after that?

Hard-ass game, or hard ass game?  I shudder to think of how many hard ass games there are out there.

@SLUSHiNaToR said:

the first time I played it I had a few issues but I think that's cause I was on my laptop. When I was playing on my PC I was owning shit up.. never even got close to the rift. I don't really see how it's hard. What layouts are you using for your traps?

Where did you get the game, exactly? According to both Steam and the game's official site, the PC version won't be released until October 12th.

@Juicebox: Did you try playing on the easiest difficulty? You don't seem to mention which mode you chose for that :)

@BisonHero: PC demo is out already I'm pretty sure. Also the demo levels are hell of easy compared to later in the game

The difficulty of Meat Boy was what made it rewarding, and the near-instant restart times and short levels are what made it tolerable. There's definitely a place for hard-ass games, but I don't want them ALL to be like that. Sometimes I play games just for the delusion that I'm competent at something.

@MysteriousFawx: Yeah, I've played the PC demo, and those first 3 levels are incredibly easy. From what Juicebox is saying about the XBLA version, the later levels sound quite difficult.

Overall, I'm still not sure about the mix of relying on traps for kills, and getting the kills yourself. It still feels like I have to get a considerable majority of the kills myself, especially early on, given how few traps you can build and how long their recharge time is. Also, those exploding barrels seem like a waste of money since they don't respawn; at best, I guess they're something you would build on the fly if you get really overwhelmed and want to take out a swarm of guys, although in the time it takes to build that barrel and successfully trigger it, you probably could've just shot the guys instead.

Yea it feels like I'm missing something crucial when it comes to trap placement and management now. Im quite a bit into it now and cannot for the life of me hold them all of with the money I'm given.

How do you guys usually place traps and what kind? And where?

Since moving up on levels, I realised its impossible to stress barricades enough. They let you perfectly filter orcs down an exact line of destruction, and provided you dont make them completely block the path to the nexus, orcs will never attack them.

One of the easiest levels to use as an example is Lunch Break, the orcs have to run up the stairs but then they can split left or right, if you block the right entry it makes them have to run further (giving you more time to fire headshots) and makes the position a hell of a lot easier to hold. I'll admit spending money on barricades does get expensive, but most paths you'll want to block will only ever need a couple, its also far more effective than using 2 walltraps that catch 5 then let another 20 through

OK, now I want to buy the game.

@Alphazero: I approve of that messages :)

@MysteriousFawx said:

Since moving up on levels, I realised its impossible to stress barricades enough. They let you perfectly filter orcs down an exact line of destruction, and provided you dont make them completely block the path to the nexus, orcs will never attack them.

One of the easiest levels to use as an example is Lunch Break, the orcs have to run up the stairs but then they can split left or right, if you block the right entry it makes them have to run further (giving you more time to fire headshots) and makes the position a hell of a lot easier to hold. I'll admit spending money on barricades does get expensive, but most paths you'll want to block will only ever need a couple, its also far more effective than using 2 walltraps that catch 5 then let another 20 through

So how do you manage barricades vs the upgrade tree? Priorotize 1 barricade before 1 spec point?

@Jimbo_N:

Get the upgrade that costs skulls for the barricade, the money saved is small but it adds up quickly. I find myself able to hold the first waves (before the 'break') pretty much just with the crossbow and magic, so usually my starting money is dumped into fixing a path for the orcs to run so I have far more control. Once you get the fire gauntlets, its secondary use, the flame wall, makes it very easy to take them down.

As for the upgrade tree, I find myself mainly using the Steel Weaver, which is useless to buy until you've trapped everything up anyway, so it works out quite nicely.

Hope it helps!

The first 10 levels or so of the game aren't bad at all, but some of the levels in the back half of the game are pretty tough. I'm currently stuck on the final level at the moment, it's no joke - basically 8 orc doors (2 on each side) surrounding you with the rift in the middle.
 
Generally, the levels where there are two symmetrical paths leading into the rift (with combinations of air and ground enemies) gave me the most trouble. Early on in those levels, I end up having to resort to a strategy where I trap the shit out of one path and try to hold down the other on my own. The ice ring + sword is incredibly useful for creating your own little bottleneck and then choppin' up the orcs, and also does wonders on the larger enemies. Also, buy the archer upgrade! They seem to be useful in almost every level on the back half of the game. And the wall arrow trap you get in the first couple levels is insanely useful throughout the whole game. Pretty damn effective for only costing 600 coins, especially if you throw some tar in the path of it.
 
@MysteriousFawx: I agree on getting the barricade upgrade and trying to make good use of it. On some of the earlier maps it's useful for blocking off big parts of it to constrain where the orcs are walking. In the later levels, there's not as much of that, but in narrower hallways I generally use it to funnel the orcs closer to the wall by putting blockades in the middle to kill them with some of the stronger wall traps like the grinder and blades. Love the Steel Weaver tree! I use the archers a lot, so having regen + fire arrows on them is super useful, plus the first upgrade is fairly cheap and gives you a bit more money for trap kills, which adds up quick.

Hearing it's really difficult just makes me want to buy it more.

I guess its back to Barbie Super Pony Tails for-

Oh nevermind.

So hey, Tower defense shit has been around for a while. At some point they should presume a certain level of proficiency in the player. If the same thing worked every time, you'd just be waiting around for the round to end and be bored as shit (like 90% of all tower defense games)

How to play -

Play every level on Apprentice that dominates you on the first wave, that way you unlock the powers and traps.

Now, go back to the levels you previously couldn't master and with your new arsenal, powers, and weapons, reak havoc.

There were a couple of levels that I couldn't even touch on Warmage until I had some later powers and traps. Chokepoint is a great example, Frost Amulet <3.

@Jimbo_N said:

Yea it feels like I'm missing something crucial when it comes to trap placement and management now. Im quite a bit into it now and cannot for the life of me hold them all of with the money I'm given.

How do you guys usually place traps and what kind? And where?

Tar pits. Just rows and rows of tar pits, then arrow traps and archers and your dude kill everything because the whole horde slows down. And tar has no cooldown, it just keeps being tar and slowing dudes down.

Not quite finished the game yet, but it seems to me that upgraded tar + upgraded swinging mace can basically lock down a passage anywhere you can set it up.

Hopefully it's not as difficult as you say, because a) I'm super interested in this game, and b) I hate hard-ass games.

i would have bought this game if there would have been some online co op to it, i am not big tower defense fan in the first place but with a game like trenched it was great fun online with friends. And from the sounds of it the difficulty would be perfect for co op teams.

I've almost finished war mage without completing any apprentice levels. The usefulness of trap set ups has been subjective on a per level basis but for me I always have tar and barricades. As far as I'm concerned the barricades are the godsend for the rest of the game. No matter the level you can use them to artificially funnel waves into super tight choke points as well as into your own unique trap lines. It's much more effective to funnel them like that as opposed to simply blocking lanes only to have the barricades destroyed seconds later. This game is super fun but like everyone else I think co op would have been splendid but also maybe too easy.

@Ares42 said:

Not quite finished the game yet, but it seems to me that upgraded tar + upgraded swinging mace can basically lock down a passage anywhere you can set it up.

Yes, I'm three levels away from beating the game and unless something drastically changes I'm reasonably convinced this is the best trap combo in the game. I've beaten everything on war mage except for Hard Climb, which I plan to go back to, and that one combo has turned some impossible looking levels into very manageable ones. It's all the more better when you can afford to sit in front of it and shoot out enemy stunning arrows.

@Barrabas: The last level of the game will mess that plan up for you sadly, its stupidly open and requires insanely good timing and planning. Until then however, tar + mace is instant death for anything that cant fly. Even Ogres get mashed by it.

Not quite finished the game yet, but it seems to me that upgraded tar + upgraded swinging mace can basically lock down a passage anywhere you can set it up.

@Barrabas: The last level of the game will mess that plan up for you sadly, its stupidly open and requires insanely good timing and planning. Until then however, tar + mace is instant death for anything that cant fly. Even Ogres get mashed by it.

i like the difficulty in the game. it really does just take some thinking about it and finding the best possible combination for the situation. reminds me a lot of plants vs zombies in that sense

@ryanwho said:

@Jimbo_N said:

Yea it feels like I'm missing something crucial when it comes to trap placement and management now. Im quite a bit into it now and cannot for the life of me hold them all of with the money I'm given.

How do you guys usually place traps and what kind? And where?

Tar pits. Just rows and rows of tar pits, then arrow traps and archers and your dude kill everything because the whole horde slows down. And tar has no cooldown, it just keeps being tar and slowing dudes down.

yes. tar pits, tons of archers, and guardian spec weaving thing

i always buy the 'traps give 66% more gold' before the 1st round, really helps make things easier later

I thought this game had a great combination of levels that frustrated you with their difficulty and levels that made you feel like an orc slaying master. It keeps you from feeling totally overpowered and generally challenged the entire time, while still leaving that rewarding feeling of dominating a wave without them getting past your first line of defenses. Honestly if you're going to complain about anything in this game it should be the lack of any sort of coop or endless mode, this game would be a 10 out of 10 with those.

It's a leaderboard game, so I think the difficulty is warranted. So far I haven't found it all that hard to finish any given level... it's getting the five skull rating and beating your friends on the leaderboards that's tought IMO.

It's isn't that hard to be honest, but it requires trial and error, and a bit of experimentation.

I am 4 levels before the end, and it is quite hard now I think. At least with my playstyle. But if you played a few tower defense games it is certainly manageable - IMHO always take the Steel Weaver. It's a pretty cool game actually. Not many enemy types though.

@notha said:

@ryanwho said:

@Jimbo_N said:

Yea it feels like I'm missing something crucial when it comes to trap placement and management now. Im quite a bit into it now and cannot for the life of me hold them all of with the money I'm given.

How do you guys usually place traps and what kind? And where?

Tar pits. Just rows and rows of tar pits, then arrow traps and archers and your dude kill everything because the whole horde slows down. And tar has no cooldown, it just keeps being tar and slowing dudes down.

yes. tar pits, tons of archers, and guardian spec weaving thing

i always buy the 'traps give 66% more gold' before the 1st round, really helps make things easier later

After playing through the whole game, my new advice is always always always go for a headshot. And barricades can be used to bar off an entire avenue of approach, so you can funnel everyone down a single path which you can doubly layer in traps. Near the end I would funnel everyone down a path, then have a couple barricades up forcing everyone down a single tileset, and on the wall there would be one of the super high attack close range machines like the grinder with tar on the floor Or if there's a cieling, that pendulum swinging thing is a beast once its upgraded. So yeah. Tar+traps right on top of the tar. And head shots. Especially after you unlock the weavers.

@ryanwho said:

@notha said:

@ryanwho said:

@Jimbo_N said:

Yea it feels like I'm missing something crucial when it comes to trap placement and management now. Im quite a bit into it now and cannot for the life of me hold them all of with the money I'm given.

How do you guys usually place traps and what kind? And where?

Tar pits. Just rows and rows of tar pits, then arrow traps and archers and your dude kill everything because the whole horde slows down. And tar has no cooldown, it just keeps being tar and slowing dudes down.

yes. tar pits, tons of archers, and guardian spec weaving thing

i always buy the 'traps give 66% more gold' before the 1st round, really helps make things easier later

After playing through the whole game, my new advice is always always always go for a headshot. And barricades can be used to bar off an entire avenue of approach, so you can funnel everyone down a single path which you can doubly layer in traps. Near the end I would funnel everyone down a path, then have a couple barricades up forcing everyone down a single tileset, and on the wall there would be one of the super high attack close range machines like the grinder with tar on the floor Or if there's a cieling, that pendulum swinging thing is a beast once its upgraded. So yeah. Tar+traps right on top of the tar. And head shots. Especially after you unlock the weavers.

Also keep in mind that (at least on War Mage) you can always sell traps for the SAME AMOUNT you bought them for (quite untypical). So if you know the sequence of wave you can move one bad ass setup from one lane to another. Helpful early game.

I take everthing back. Nightmage IS hard!

Yeah Nightmare really gets challenging. I'm at maybe level 15 on Nightmare and it's a bitch. I just don't have enough time to build the traps I want to without wasting time I could be attacking the orcs.

I thought the game was mad hard initially but the levels that gave me trouble I could probably do easily now, I got 5 skulls on every level on War Mage for the achievement. It's more about strategy than DPS.

Just finished a nightmare 5 skull series on my Nimothar youtube account, it maybe of some use. I only had two traps upgraded, the coinforge and the grinders, this was to allow others who may have wasted there upgrades on not so useful traps to still be able to play my styles to complete the maps and achieve the 5 skulls. The videos are in 1080p HD with commentary, please enjoy ^_^

Start of the playlist - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvpMvR8V1T8&feature;=list_related&playnext;=1&list;=SPCAE6739AF01F9B85

The Hallway - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGMg4rVNJ6M

The Fork - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4v8-N04ZuU

The Corner - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qknmpq4HwmE

The Baths - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDy_0HMJtKI

Runner's Alley - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYLUaXXymic

Overpass - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2CX_oEcXzfo

Twin Halls - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXaxnN01V6k

Lunch Break - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UO-C9aFtPh8

The Stream - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ch0LuLBjEXI

Sludge Hole - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRTmy56FsPE

Chaos Chamber - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lTdYXNU3gr0

Choke Point - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1nxwa4pTSmM

The Arena - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zno5zC405Rg

The Balcony - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pwg6qFVDExo

The Tower - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1h__-fyIv8

The Library - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SWV2wLjup68

The Bridge - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SWV2wLjup68

Killing Fields - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3hk97JOUhpc

Rebirth - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ez6MK7R6EdA

Gateway - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_gRP2VifIVo

Hard Climb - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kDif2JZXjNk

The Squeeze - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PsM1-MwjZH4

The Stairs of Doom - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4Xk9ngTJ2I

Finale - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-VUWDBDQKI

There is also a DLC#1 vid on the channel

Cheers,

The game is nowhere as hard as many people make it out to be. They just use tactics wich either don't work or are really stressfull. Often there are far easier tactics people simply don't know about. I had a look at a few of those vids from Nimothar and it's the same there. His tactics work, but they're alot of work. For most maps the only thing you need are tar pits, the crossbow, barricades and the lightning ring (2nd ability).

Just so people don't think I'm making up stuff, http://www.robotentertainment.com/user/Deleth/mygames/orcsmustdie/steam if there weren't so many guides out there allready I would do my own. Picked the game up way to late. ;(