Why can't they just do Paper Mario: TTYD, but better?

  • 98 results
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
#1 Edited by FluxWaveZ (19307 posts) -

Seriously, why not? I'm not going to directly judge Sticker Star because I haven't played it, but all of the changes they're doing makes it seem like I'll find this game as bad as Super Paper Mario compared to the amazing experience that was The Thousand Year Door. This post in a NeoGAF thread aptly summarizes my concerns:

No partners.
No levelling up.
Limited battle moves.
Sticker gimmick.
Bowser kidnaps Peach storyline.

The sticker system seems interesting, but exchanging the entire battle system for those one-use stickers is a bit odd. The fact that there (potentially) won't be any cool and memorable partners, based on classic Mario enemies, instead having this weird crown thing is disconcerting as well.

I dunno, man. I'll be getting the game day one and I want to love it for sure, but I can't help but feel worried when I see what they're doing to a system that, in my opinion, worked perfectly fine in TTYD and that they shouldn't have messed with in the first place. In some ways, it feels like they're just modifying the game to appeal to the masses; maybe people who aren't familiar with turn-based RPGs and who need simplified mechanics to get through it.

Is anyone actually excited about the changes they're making?

#2 Posted by Bulby33 (546 posts) -

I agree. I've been waiting for a proper Paper Mario RPG since The Thousand-Year Door and this might not be the game. It still looks interesting, however. And though I didn't think Super Paper Mario was nearly as good as the first two Paper Mario games, it was still fun. I'm hoping Sticker Star will be better.

#3 Posted by YI_Orange (1128 posts) -

Really? What the hell Nintendo. It still seems kinda cool, but I was hoping for another TTYD too.

#4 Posted by BoG (5181 posts) -

I don't know if it's really possible to do better tha TTYD. They probably released that game, realized it was super duper good, and just gave up all hope for a third Paper Mario RPG.

#6 Edited by MooseyMcMan (10466 posts) -

They can't because Thousand Year Door was PERFECT.

Also, I should add that while I wasn't a huge fan of Super Paper Mario becoming a platformer, I still enjoyed the game and thought a lot of its writing was top notch.

So far as this new one goes... I guess that part where he summons the giant cat statue was kinda funny in its ridiculousness.

#7 Posted by Ravenlight (8040 posts) -

Just remake TTYD and have the player(s) do everything ten time more/longer. Call it Paper Mario: The Ten Thousand Year Door.

#8 Posted by Klei (1768 posts) -

I prefer Super Paper Mario over TTYD. Don't judge me :(

#9 Posted by TeflonBilly (4713 posts) -

Yeah, this seems to take more of a cue from Super Paper Mario (Which I didn't even bother finishing) than the absolutely fantastic TTYD.

A real shame :(

#10 Posted by Video_Game_King (35985 posts) -

@FluxWaveZ said:

I'll find this game as bad as Super Paper Mario compared to the amazing experience that was The Thousand Year Door.

Then don't.

#11 Posted by FluxWaveZ (19307 posts) -

@MooseyMcMan said:

Also, I should add that while I wasn't a huge fan of Super Paper Mario becoming a platformer, I still enjoyed the game and thought a lot of its writing was top notch.

Sure, Mr. L is one of the greatest Mario villains. But what made TTYD so memorable was the great writing combined with the awesome gameplay.

#12 Posted by MooseyMcMan (10466 posts) -

@FluxWaveZ said:

@MooseyMcMan said:

Also, I should add that while I wasn't a huge fan of Super Paper Mario becoming a platformer, I still enjoyed the game and thought a lot of its writing was top notch.

Sure, Mr. L is one of the greatest Mario villains. But what made TTYD so memorable was the great writing combined with the awesome gameplay.

I concur. I still remember how when I played it the final blow to the final boss was dealt by a meteor that just randomly decided to crash into the fight. Or at least I assume that was random.

#13 Posted by NoobSauceG7 (1232 posts) -

I would love if it was more like TTYD. Nintendo has been disappointing me lately...

#14 Posted by Hailinel (23868 posts) -

The lot of you sound like the people that complained about Zelda and wanted another Ocarina of Time, and then bitched when they got one in Twilight Princess. Even if the next Paper Mario were like TTYD, you'd just complain that it was too much like TTYD.

#15 Posted by SlightConfuse (3963 posts) -

why would they take the partners out

#16 Posted by TooWalrus (13135 posts) -

I don't know man, the Mario RPGs have always been great, it's too bad we haven't seen one for awhile (actually, I've heard good things about Bowser's Inside Story, but I kinda got bored after a few hours with it). I was hoping this new Paper Mario would join the ranks, but this news kinda bums me out, but I'll still wait and see. So what's the deal? Have most game companies just decided that long, in-depth RPGs are too expensive to make, and don't sell well enough to make them worthwhile?

#18 Posted by Irvandus (2818 posts) -

They don't understand what part of the Mario franchise people want innovation in.

#19 Posted by FluxWaveZ (19307 posts) -

@Hailinel said:

Even if the next Paper Mario were like TTYD, you'd just complain that it was too much like TTYD.

That's... a completely unimaginable scenario when it comes to this game.

#20 Posted by LordAndrew (14424 posts) -

No partners? Hasn't a Chain Chomp been confirmed as a partner? Or am I going crazy?

#21 Edited by FluxWaveZ (19307 posts) -

@LordAndrew said:

No partners? Hasn't a Chain Chomp been confirmed as a partner? Or am I going crazy?

I believe you're going crazy.

Though checking our wiki, it lists a Chain Chomp as a partner but that information might have just been speculation. Or it's outdated. In any case, there's no indication of any partners in recent media for the game.

#22 Edited by MikkaQ (10268 posts) -

Really? Oh man, you couldn't have deflated my interest any faster than taking out the partners and simplifying the battle system. The partnets added some much needed depth (not to mention memorable characters) to the already simple fighting mechanics, and kept things interesting by having a good variety of attacks and abilities.

I need something to play on the 3DS so I'll probably get it, but I feel like it's going to be as shitty as Super Paper Mario.

I don't think Ninendo has a great grasp of what their audience wants. They shower us with lame nostalgia and reusing the same characters and mechanics for years but then when something truly special comes along (Like TTYD), they never follow up on it well. It's like every Nintendo designer is taught to incorporate the first 10-15 years of Nintendo's gaming history into their work and told to ignore everything else.

#23 Posted by bartok (2417 posts) -

Going to hold off judgement until the game is actually reviewed.

#24 Posted by Hailinel (23868 posts) -
@FluxWaveZ

@Hailinel said:

Even if the next Paper Mario were like TTYD, you'd just complain that it was too much like TTYD.

That's... a completely unimaginable scenario when it comes to this game.

I just imagined it. So, yeah.
#25 Posted by FluxWaveZ (19307 posts) -

@Hailinel said:

@FluxWaveZ

That's... a completely unimaginable scenario when it comes to this game.

I just imagined it. So, yeah.

I mean unimaginable in the sense of comprehension. All you're doing is being a dissenter here, as it's obvious from the responses in this thread that no one would complain if Sticker Star was more like TTYD than what they're doing.

#26 Posted by Hailinel (23868 posts) -
@FluxWaveZ

@Hailinel said:

@FluxWaveZ

That's... a completely unimaginable scenario when it comes to this game.

I just imagined it. So, yeah.

I mean unimaginable in the sense of comprehension. All you're doing is being a dissenter here, as it's obvious from the responses in this thread that no one would complain if Sticker Star was more like TTYD than what they're doing.

That's similar to the tone taken after Wind Waked was announced. "Nintendo is dumb, give us more Ocarina!" And then when Twilight Princess came out, "It's too much like Ocarina! Give us something else!"

Mark my words, a Paper Mario sequel in the vein of TTYD would get a similar reaction. People clamoring for it, only to reject it because they got what they wanted.
#27 Posted by C_Cage (56 posts) -

I think it looks quite nice. It's not the same battle system from thousand year door but it has every thing I liked about that system in it. The stickers seem like a cool twist. The only thing I'm worried about is being stuck with just Mario. Hopefully you're gonna travel with more then one person because Mario has never been interesting enough to carry an rpg on his own. This is a step in the right direction super paper Mario was not. Nintendo makes tons of side scrolling Mario plat-formers already so we don't need Paper Mario turning into that.

#28 Posted by nintendoeats (5975 posts) -

It would be awfully difficult to top...

#29 Posted by Bocam (3670 posts) -

I still think Super Mario RPG was better.

#30 Posted by Hailinel (23868 posts) -

@Bocam said:

I still think Super Mario RPG was better.

I agree. Square really hit it out of the park with that one.

#31 Posted by JackSukeru (5903 posts) -

I think it looks like it will be pretty fun, but I don't expect it to top TTYD from what I've seen.

I won't lament it, it can do its own thing and we can hold off on the full scale, all in, Mario RPG for another time.

#32 Posted by Video_Game_King (35985 posts) -

@Hailinel said:

People clamoring for it, only to reject it because they got what they wanted.

That's how the industry works.

#33 Posted by jasondaplock (260 posts) -

I've lost a lot of my faith in Intelligent Systems the last few years. Between Advance Wars and Paper Mario they have a legacy anyone could proudly hang their hat on but, as much as it pains me to say it, I think they've forgotten what made their games compelling. I feel like the Zelda team has had this problem for a decade, and watching it spread through one of my favorite devs is heartbreaking.

I'm absolutely not about to dismiss Sticker Star out of hand, but I don't own a 3DS yet and as far as I can see this game will be my swingvote on its purchase; that's a high bar, higher than my expectations.

Still, surprises are always welcome.

#34 Posted by Molenator85 (219 posts) -

@jasondaplock said:

I've lost a lot of my faith in Intelligent Systems the last few years.

Pushmo would like to have a word with you.

#35 Posted by jasondaplock (260 posts) -

@Molenator85 said:

@jasondaplock said:

I've lost a lot of my faith in Intelligent Systems the last few years.

Pushmo would like to have a word with you.

That will certainly be on the list if I get a 3DS. I'll be more than willing to embrace them again if they turn around a Paper Mario game worthy of its predecessors.

#36 Posted by ajamafalous (11845 posts) -

I never got to finish TTYD. The disc I bought was scratched and it wouldn't let me past a certain screen in the castle at the end :(

#37 Posted by PK_Koopa (582 posts) -

@Hailinel said:

@FluxWaveZ

@Hailinel said:

@FluxWaveZ

That's... a completely unimaginable scenario when it comes to this game.

I just imagined it. So, yeah.

I mean unimaginable in the sense of comprehension. All you're doing is being a dissenter here, as it's obvious from the responses in this thread that no one would complain if Sticker Star was more like TTYD than what they're doing.

That's similar to the tone taken after Wind Waked was announced. "Nintendo is dumb, give us more Ocarina!" And then when Twilight Princess came out, "It's too much like Ocarina! Give us something else!" Mark my words, a Paper Mario sequel in the vein of TTYD would get a similar reaction. People clamoring for it, only to reject it because they got what they wanted.

I see what you're trying to say... but I think you're a little off. After all, the Paper Mario game to represent Wind Waker in that case should be Super Paper Mario, since it tried to radically change the gameplay mechanics, much like how Wind Waker changed the tone and graphical style, while still keeping the dungeon exploring, puzzle solving etc. (Similarly, Super Paper Mario keeps the same tone and dialogue.) So really, I think Paper Mario: Sticker Star would be more like Twilight Princess in that it's trying to go back to what fans wanted.

Except while Twilight Princess did pretty much go back to what it was (barring the barely used Wolf Link and the 'darker' tone), Sticker Star is going back, but also simplifying what it used to be. The whole 'Bowser kidnapping Peach' thing is like the original Paper Mario, but now they're stripping off parts such as the leveling system, limiting the battle moves, and more importantly, taking out the partners, since they were a huge part of why Paper Mario has so much character. Yeah, there's the Sticker gimmick, but for the most part, it just seems like a downgrade to what a new Paper Mario game could be.

Oh yeah, and I also think people here are whining way less than when people were complaining about Wind Waker. So far the general thoughts seem to be: "That's a huge shame but I'm sure it'll still be great."

#38 Edited by Timing (618 posts) -

This new video shows that the stickers are really one-time use and according to the guy playing you'd have no means of attacking were you to run out. The stickers found in the area do appear to respawn once you exit and return though, supposedly making it possible to just farm them. Either way, I rarely use consumable items in RPGs unless I absolutely have to, so this whole system of 'finite battling means' doesn't seem very appealing to me.

Also, the game's areas seem to be connected via an overworld map, suggesting a level-based structure as in Super Paper Mario as opposed to the interconnected worlds of the other two games. This was also hinted at in the latest E3 trailer when Mario reaches a 'goal', similar to the end-level star blocks in Super Paper Mario.

I also wish it still had partners and experience gained from battling, though I'm still cautiously optimistic about the rest of the game.

Edit: And this is apparently the box art. Baby Bowser... meh.

#39 Posted by BrockNRolla (1702 posts) -

I'm holding out hope, but it's not looking good. Then again, if Nintendo understood what their fans wanted, they wouldn't be Nintendo.

#40 Posted by Phatmac (5721 posts) -

I like judging a game that I haven't played too! DISHONORED IS GONNA SUCK ASS!!

#41 Posted by PK_Koopa (582 posts) -

Box art looks quite lovely, though the dead space on the upper right side of Mario looks a bit odd to me. I suppose more stickers would just make it too clustered.

Also, I'm pretty sure that's Bowser Jr., not baby Bowser, though I could be wrong. They do look damn similar, but you can see his napkin thing that's exclusive to Jr.

#42 Posted by FluxWaveZ (19307 posts) -

@Phatmac said:

I like judging a game that I haven't played too! DISHONORED IS GONNA SUCK ASS!!

Yep, it's not as if I wrote "I'm not going to directly judge Sticker Star because I haven't played it" in the second sentence of the OP and it's not as though people are coming up with valid arguments to be worried about a sequel to a game they loved. Oh wait, they are.

No one's saying the game's going to suck, but I think people can look at what's being presented and be worried about it. You know, critical thinking.

#43 Posted by Bulby33 (546 posts) -
@Timing said:
         

This new video shows that the stickers are really one-time use and according to the guy playing you'd have no means of attacking were you to run out. The stickers found in the area do appear to respawn once you exit and return though, supposedly making it possible to just farm them. Either way, I rarely use consumable items in RPGs unless I absolutely have to, so this whole system of 'finite battling means' doesn't seem very appealing to me.

Also, the game's areas seem to be connected via an overworld map, suggesting a level-based structure as in Super Paper Mario as opposed to the interconnected worlds of the other two games. This was also hinted at in the latest E3 trailer when Mario reaches a 'goal', similar to the end-level star blocks in Super Paper Mario.

I also wish it still had partners and experience gained from battling, though I'm still cautiously optimistic about the rest of the game.

That really bums be out. I'm really bummed out now.
#44 Posted by TheMasterDS (2015 posts) -

Everything I hear about this game bums me the fuck out. Baby Bowser's on the box. What the fuck? Really? Why! What? Paper Mario Box Arts are traditionally smorgasmorgs of the enemies you'll be facing and the friends you'll meet and travel with. The fact that the box has only one distinct one of each, the friend being a Tippi looking crown, is a really fucking bad sign. Not to mention the lack of XP, which is the only good reason to fight dudes in the Paper Mario games besides the sheer fun of it, the way attacks are all items now which is just about the worst thing you could do to the combat system I can think of seeing as I NEVER USE ITEMS. Always use jumps with loads of power pluses. Speaking of power, I also hate how they've raised the numbers. You should be doing 1 damage per hit until you get upgrades and get up to 3! That way the numbers are nice and small and doing 5 damage per hit can be super awesome! Why inflate the goddamn health economy? Now we hear it's level based like Super Paper Mario. Jesus fucking Christ. Not to mention the lack of partners, the ridiculous plot which doesn't fit the Paper Mario vibe at all (seriously, a sticker festival?) and the fact it seems to be taking after goddamn Super Paper Mario more than the stronger games in the series.

I think... I think I'm out. Like Jesse Pinkman. I can't... I can't buy this. This is blasphemy. This is the worst. I don't want to support this because they might think I want more in this vein. No matter how much I like Paper Mario and am invested in the series... I gotta take my Paper Mario and Thousand Year Door and leave.

#45 Edited by C_Cage (56 posts) -

I've been thinking about the removal of experience in this game and I don't think it's that big of a deal now. In the past paper mario games experience helped you increase 3 things: hit points, flower points and badge points. There were no actual stats that were affected by levelling up.

Let's look at the new elements in sticker star. We still have hit points but instead of badges and flower power we have stickers and a sticker book. Considering that the sticker book has limited space means that the sticker book performs a similar function that badge points did. It's a limiter that forces you to pick and choose what you feel is most important. Since stickers are finite this must mean that the game throws more stickers at you then you are able to carry or else the sticker book is pointless.

Stickers take the place of regular attacks, special badge attacks and items. This means the stickers you have are pretty much the determining factor in how powerful you actually are. This would have to obviously mean that more powerful stickers can be found and purchased in later leves (Fucking no duh). This way the designers can limit your power with what types of stickers you have vs how much experience you've obtained and can guarantee a similar rate of growth. There's also no need for something like flower power since the stickers all have limited use.

Gaining hp through helping people is pretty self explanatory so there must be enough quests you can do through the game to have the same rate of growth as the others. What I'm wondering is if you can get more pages for your sticker book so you can increase the number of larger more powerful stickers you can carry at once.

It pretty much is more similar to paper mario 64 and thousand year door then it is to smp.

Some thing I'm worried about is the strategy in battle and if different stickers are stronger against certain enemies. If that's the case then hopefully there will be a way to store certain stickers away aside from your sticker book and use them when you really need them instead of being forced to use them up. I hope they don't just throw the right stickers at you depending on the level. The other big problem about this system is there's no real incentive to battle since battles are now just an obstacle and not an opportunity for growth. This probably means there'll be a larger focus on puzzles and less battling then other games in the series. So let's hope those puzzles are damn good and not just "Place sticker here".

#46 Posted by FluxWaveZ (19307 posts) -

Reading the new Sticker Star details, I might be coming around on the idea of the sticker system instead of a more traditional battle system. Still, a bunch of other stuff about the game has me a bit weary (no partners is still an issue). I'll be there day 1 regardless.

#47 Posted by TooWalrus (13135 posts) -

This whole thing seems weird- but I'm not really sure how to discribe it. Though I had the same feeling about Super Mario 3D Land, and that turned out great, so who knows. I'll definitely check it out, though.

I'm a little more bummed that they keep pushing back Luigi's Mansion 2... er, I guess it's Dark Moon now, eh? That's the 3DS game I really want. I hope that turns out good, Luigi's Mansion was universally voted the Game of the Decade, wasn't it?

#48 Posted by FluxWaveZ (19307 posts) -

Sadly, it seems as though my fears were not averted going from peoples' impressions. It's a shame.

#49 Posted by CrazyBagMan (836 posts) -

So far it's awesome. I was somewhat concerned about not having a leveling up system, but now I'm having too much fun playing it to care.

#50 Posted by Hailinel (23868 posts) -

@FluxWaveZ said:

Sadly, it seems as though my fears were not averted going from peoples' impressions. It's a shame.

@CrazyBagMan said:

So far it's awesome. I was somewhat concerned about not having a leveling up system, but now I'm having too much fun playing it to care.

Heh.

This edit will also create new pages on Giant Bomb for:

Beware, you are proposing to add brand new pages to the wiki along with your edits. Make sure this is what you intended. This will likely increase the time it takes for your changes to go live.

Comment and Save

Until you earn 1000 points all your submissions need to be vetted by other Giant Bomb users. This process takes no more than a few hours and we'll send you an email once approved.