Even Microsoft hates GFWL

#1 Posted by chiablo (934 posts) -

This is the error message I get when I try to play Dirt 3, a Games for Windows Live title, in Windows 8:

The game runs fine, I just think it's hilarious that this would happen. GFWL truly is the cancer of PC gaming.

#2 Posted by believer258 (11929 posts) -

When they decide to stop supporting this, I really hope there's an easy way around it when I want to activate a future game that uses this. There are some good games stuck behind this piece of shit.

#3 Posted by MikkaQ (10294 posts) -

Yeah Windows 8 and GFWL don't play nicely together. It was (or is) probably Microsoft's worst gaming initiative ever.

#4 Posted by VACkillers (1063 posts) -

GFWL is just.................awful....... there is no other words for it........ and is mostly the reason why most games that ended up on that, were never that popular.....

#5 Posted by BestUsernameEver (4825 posts) -

@mikkaq said:

Yeah Windows 8 and GFWL don't play nicely together. It was (or is) probably Microsoft's worst gaming initiative ever.

I thought well before Win8 came out Microsoft had said there would be a built in game app for the OS, did that never happen?

#6 Posted by TooWalrus (13208 posts) -

I actually never had a problem with GFWL until recently, I bought Bioshock 2 cheap during the Steam sale, because I've never played Minerva's Den... However GFWL flat out wont let me by it, due to some unspecified error. It's really bullshit.

#7 Posted by TooWalrus (13208 posts) -

The DLC, I mean. I can install Bioshock 2 but can't buy Minerva's Den.

#8 Posted by Belegorm (407 posts) -

Worst feeling ever is when you try to play SF4 off of steam and then have to go through that GFWL shit.

#9 Edited by xyzygy (9999 posts) -

Honestly I've never had any problems with it, but I don't play a ton of games on PC so maybe that's why.

#10 Posted by GaspoweR (3056 posts) -

@mikkaq said:

Yeah Windows 8 and GFWL don't play nicely together. It was (or is) probably Microsoft's worst gaming initiative ever.

Well yes but that same initiative also brought about more standardized gamepad support in Windows, too. That was probably the only good thing that it brought that I can recall.

#11 Edited by BIGJEFFREY (5055 posts) -

I've never had a problem with GFWL, I've use it plenty on Windows® 8 when playing classics like Halo 2 PC, RE5, GTA4, some Batman Arkham City.

No seriously ive never had a problem w/ it.

Online
#12 Edited by hollitz (1527 posts) -

I liked getting achievements when I cared about achievements.

#13 Posted by Belegorm (407 posts) -

@gaspower said:

@mikkaq said:

Yeah Windows 8 and GFWL don't play nicely together. It was (or is) probably Microsoft's worst gaming initiative ever.

Well yes but that same initiative also brought about more standardized gamepad support in Windows, too. That was probably the only good thing that it brought that I can recall.

You mean whatever lead to every game assuming you have a 360 controller, instead of a good controller? I'm still pissed that I can't play Dust: An Elysian Tail w/out emulating the 360 controller.

#14 Posted by Humanity (9306 posts) -

Never had any problems with it.

#15 Posted by Nictel (2412 posts) -

@toowalrus: Not through Steam either? Cause would be weird if GFWL can block that.

Also it never really gave me any problems, that is half of the time it didn't work for me, I couldn't log in or it didn't register any achievements but I see that more as a feature in this case.

#16 Posted by JoeyRavn (4974 posts) -

@belegorm said:

@gaspower said:

@mikkaq said:

Yeah Windows 8 and GFWL don't play nicely together. It was (or is) probably Microsoft's worst gaming initiative ever.

Well yes but that same initiative also brought about more standardized gamepad support in Windows, too. That was probably the only good thing that it brought that I can recall.

You mean whatever lead to every game assuming you have a 360 controller, instead of a good controller? I'm still pissed that I can't play Dust: An Elysian Tail w/out emulating the 360 controller.

If opinions are facts, then the 360 gamepad is the best gamepad ever, IMO. So, care to explain?

#17 Posted by Cold_Wolven (2221 posts) -

I remember the headaches I got trying to activate Batman Arkham Asylum with GFWL back when it first came out. Definitely one of the worst services for PC games in recent memory.

#18 Edited by rebgav (1429 posts) -

I actually never had a problem with GFWL until recently, I bought Bioshock 2 cheap during the Steam sale, because I've never played Minerva's Den... However GFWL flat out wont let me by it, due to some unspecified error. It's really bullshit.

Is it quoting the price in MS points? I had a problem buying it and I think that I had to use the marketplace app to make the transaction happen.

#19 Edited by BaconGames (3424 posts) -
@rebgav said:

@toowalrus said:

I actually never had a problem with GFWL until recently, I bought Bioshock 2 cheap during the Steam sale, because I've never played Minerva's Den... However GFWL flat out wont let me by it, due to some unspecified error. It's really bullshit.

Is it quoting the price in MS points? I had a problem buying it and I think that I had to use the marketplace app to make the transaction happen.

Having just recently loaded up Minerva's den, I bought Minerva's Den directly from Xbox on the website and it registered to the GFW Marketplace. Once I loaded up Bioshock 2, it wouldn't download through the in-game client, instead prompting me to load up the marketplace, download it from there, and once that happened it was all good.

Online
#20 Edited by Cloudenvy (5891 posts) -

Just the other day, GFWL disassociated my Dark Souls product key with my account and said I had to input a new one to play. That was fun.

#21 Posted by GaspoweR (3056 posts) -

@belegorm said:

@gaspower said:

@mikkaq said:

Yeah Windows 8 and GFWL don't play nicely together. It was (or is) probably Microsoft's worst gaming initiative ever.

Well yes but that same initiative also brought about more standardized gamepad support in Windows, too. That was probably the only good thing that it brought that I can recall.

You mean whatever lead to every game assuming you have a 360 controller, instead of a good controller? I'm still pissed that I can't play Dust: An Elysian Tail w/out emulating the 360 controller.

What kind of controller are you using?

#22 Posted by jdh5153 (1034 posts) -

Works fine for me with Dirt 3 in Windows 8 (and any other GFWL game on Windows 8). I actually love it because I can keep in touch with my Xbox friends while playing games on PC. I wish all PC games required GFWL so I could keep in touch online and also earn meaningful achievements (Steam achievements are crap).

#23 Edited by TobbRobb (4654 posts) -

@belegorm: Psst, google DS3 tool and play with a PS3 controller. Works with Dust for me.

#24 Edited by Alpha1 (254 posts) -

@humanity said:

Never had any problems with it.

#25 Posted by Belegorm (407 posts) -

@joeyravn said:

@belegorm said:

@gaspower said:

@mikkaq said:

Yeah Windows 8 and GFWL don't play nicely together. It was (or is) probably Microsoft's worst gaming initiative ever.

Well yes but that same initiative also brought about more standardized gamepad support in Windows, too. That was probably the only good thing that it brought that I can recall.

You mean whatever lead to every game assuming you have a 360 controller, instead of a good controller? I'm still pissed that I can't play Dust: An Elysian Tail w/out emulating the 360 controller.

If opinions are facts, then the 360 gamepad is the best gamepad ever, IMO. So, care to explain?

Ooh, sarcasm. However, when did I say that the 360 controller is a bad controller? What I said in other words is that I'd rather use a good controller, instead of the 360 controller. My opinion on the 360 controller is that it's a mediocre controller, and this opinion is based on facts. The 360 controller works fine for certain genres, and fails horribly on others. This is due to the problems with the controller. When people say they use a 360 controller on PC it is usually related to how easy it is to install; this is unrelated to how good of a controller it is. I recently gave reasons over why I'd prefer a dualshock 1 or 2 in a different thread. It is based on facts of the 360 controller's problems; these are facts as you can pick up a 360 controller and see the problems yourself. Please notice that at no point do I call the 360 controller a "bad controller" in the whole thing:

"Probably do what I've always done and use my good old dualshock 1 or 2. It gets irritating that it can be hard to get the damn thing working for some games (there aren't even any controller settings in some games O.o), but I have no confidence in Microsoft making a good controller after the 360 controller. Being forced to emulate the 360 controller for certain games is insulting as all hell, considering the 360 controller. The d-pad is one of the most useless ones I've ever used; whether for attempting to input a qcf in a fighting game, or complicated moves in a platformer, it feels useless. The bumpers feel dumb as hell, give me a real shoulder button. The triggers are an interesting idea but I'm not prepared to sacrifice the digital feeling of a good old R2 or L2 button. I need to hit my buttons fast, not this analogue crap. The face buttons feel dumb, but I can live with that I guess.

The 360 controller's decent I guess for shooters, racing games and sports games, but I don't play racing games or sports games, and why would I take a controller over a mouse and keyboard for shooters? It's beyond useless for fighting games, and feels awkward for 2D platformers with the bad d-pad. It also feels weird with basically any game that you could use the d-pad in. The controller's very big and heavy too, like a tank, which I don't really want.

For all I know they can make a better controller, but considering the original xbox controller was terrible as well, their track record's pretty bad. I don't like the cheap plasticky feeling of the ps3 controller either, but at least it's closer to a good controller. However I still feel fine with using my dualshock 1 or dualshock 2."

BTW I do know that I can use my ps3 controller to play dust; this is done by emulating the 360 controller through software. It doesn't work with a dualshock 1 or 2 sadly.

Also do you have any facts to support your opinion that the 360 controller is "the best gamepad ever?" The theory "I can plug it into a PC and use it" doesn't work. Additionally, for a point of comparison, can you even give any reason over why the 360 controller could be better than a dualshock 2? If it's the best pad ever then obviously it's better than a dualshock 2.

#26 Posted by MikkaQ (10294 posts) -

@belegorm:

Seems odd to be criticizing any controller for playing fighting games since anyone past week two on most fighting games should be using a proper stick and not a controller.

But anyway my personal reason for preferring the 360 controller to a dualshock is the more ergonomic stick placement and indentation, the ergonomic handles, the triggers, and the 8-way/4-way transforming d-pad (on the improved model). I'd say my biggest beef with the dualshock are those handles. They're so small that half my hand hangs off them and it's not as comfortable to hold for long periods of time. It's a fine controller though, one of the better ones but not as nice as the 360. As for the "best" controller, that's a hard call. I'd say the 360's high compatibility on PC plus it's other advantages just cheats it past the dualshock for me. But if we're saying in terms of being iconic and awesome well... the NES controller is a pretty awesome choice. Still feels great to play the classics on that bad boy. Even if it's just a rectangle, the d-pad and two buttons are so good, and they still work so well after like 25+ years that I'd say it's one of the best ever made.

#27 Edited by GaspoweR (3056 posts) -

@belegorm: Yeah for fighting games it is hard to play on the OLD 360 controller but it is A LOT better with the transforming d-pad (which is what I use now) but I do agree somewhat that the DS2 dpad in some ways does feel a lot better but unfortunately the DS controllers are not compatible PC's unfortunately so converters or emulators are needed. Also let's not keep saying that these are FACTS since what was stated was mostly about personal preferences (e.g. you preferring the flatter feel of the DS than the bumper's of the 360) and there's nothing wrong with that at all and you did bring up good points but we can't keep saying that one is in "fact" better than the other but we can say that we prefer one over the other.

I actually don't mind the bumpers but I do like the placement of the sticks on the 360 better than the DS since all the DS analog stick designs always felt awkward to me (since PSX). A really great hybrid for me would be the 360 stick placement and the DShock's D-pad. :)

#28 Edited by Belegorm (407 posts) -

@mikkaq:

That is incorrect: many of the top fighting game players are pad players these days. Also, while I do use a stick myself, it took me and most people I know with a stick far more than 2 weeks to decide to put down a big chunk of cash on an arcade stick; it'd have been an impulse buy at 2 weeks. I guess I do tend to rate controllers based on their use for fighters though, since fighting games are one of a very few number of genres where you would prefer to have it on a console and not a PC, and with a good controller, rather than a mouse and keyboard. Kind of like "if this controller is accurate and useful enough for a fighting game it'll be so for other games I enjoy."

I do respect your reasoning to prefer the 360 controller; however for me the handles feel big and bulky, the triggers don't work well for the games I want them to, and I've never met anyone with improved model that has the better d-pad that I've heard of.

@gaspower:

However the bumpers are objectively worse for some games in ways the R1 and L1 buttons aren't. Ever try playing the DMC HD collection on the 360? You're forced to use the bumpers to lock on and it hurts your hand after a while because those bumpers are terrible as lock on buttons. The triggers are also bad to switch weapons with. Additionally, the d-pad and bumpers do not in any way improve on prior d-pads or L1 or R1 buttons; they're just worse. The improved d-pad on one of the improved 360 controllers is nice, but if you haven't bought one of those newer models (and the number of people who haven't is pretty large), then you're stuck with the old one.

Additionally, a converter for 2 dualshock 1/2's is under $10; you can get a DS1 and a converter cheaper than a 360 controller.

What is definitely a fact is that while gaming with a pad may be easier now for someone willing to use a 360 controller, for anyone else it's worse than ever before. Gone are the days where you just enter your inputs into an options menu; you now need to go download extra crap to fool the game into thinking you're using a 360 controller.

#29 Posted by Troispoint (267 posts) -

@belegorm: Many? They're still very rare outside NRS games. And pretty much most pad players uses the Sega Saturn pad for fighting games. lol So I wouldn't want to use their controller anyway. And the dual shock is awkward to hold, it's not ergonomic at all. I have small hands myself and the 360 controller is not bulky at all, it fits in my hands perfectly. I honestly don't understand where you're coming from with this. This isn't the duke of the original Xbox days.

#30 Posted by Simplexity (1382 posts) -

Still remember the time I bought red faction guerilla for 2 bucks on Steam and GWFL completely cockblocked me from ever playing it for absolutely no reason.

#31 Edited by Belegorm (407 posts) -

@troispoint:

I haven't followed the FGC in some time, but 2 years ago commentators at EVO were commenting on how pad users were becoming more common. Pad users that were able to use a dualshock 3 at EVO (at least that thing's usable, though not the best). I recall at least 2 of the top C.Viper players using a pad.

Thing is, if I'm trying to get some friends into playing fighting games, and I only have my own stick, and the controller, I can just give them the dualshock and they're good. You can't just do that with a 360 controller; you pretty much need a stick, or a different controller.

#32 Posted by Korwin (2866 posts) -

The GFWL client is pretty busted on Win 8. What you need to to is remove the existing install, download the stand alone installer for it, and then run the installer in compatibility mode for Win 7.

The fact that it doesn't work properly is a testament to how much of a spectacular mess GFWL was.

#33 Posted by Krullban (1038 posts) -

I've never had a problem with GFWL, I've use it plenty on Windows® 8 when playing classics like Halo 2 PC, RE5, GTA4, some Batman Arkham City.

No seriously ive never had a problem w/ it.

I haven't either. Always works perfectly for me.

#34 Edited by GaspoweR (3056 posts) -

@belegorm

: Yeah but that's pretty much a hedge case for a particular game or games. You did give out good points and concerns but that's pretty much something that is a problem for specific games, not all types of games and possibly also dependent on how each individual would also play them. All in all, my anecdotal experience with the bumpers haven't been problematic or have caused any kind of pain.

Also if you got a gamepad that is compatible with the PC anyway you wouldn't have to download and any extra applications, etc, unless ofcourse the controller wasn't compatible and required an adapter/emulator so of course there would be hoops to jump through. All in all, you did bring up great points using a particular game like DMC as an example but really in my experience you would only experience that kind of pain anyway if you were holding down on the controller too hard or in a awkward angle, etc. but I can see why it'd be preferable to use the DS controller because it's more optimal in some ways for particular genres (e.g. competitive Smash players using a Gamecube pad over the Wii Classic Controller or Tekken players using the older gen DS controllers instead of the DS3).

#35 Posted by rickyyo (143 posts) -

So, I had the issue with dark souls. The fix is to uninstall GFWL and the Marketplace. Then go to the GFWL download page on Xbox.com. Download that executable and install it. Microsoft did provide a fix... At least for Darksouls on win 8 by way of a patched executable.

@korwin said:

The GFWL client is pretty busted on Win 8. What you need to to is remove the existing install, download the stand alone installer for it, and then run the installer in compatibility mode for Win 7.

The fact that it doesn't work properly is a testament to how much of a spectacular mess GFWL was.

Didn't read all the posts but yeah this.

#36 Posted by MikkaQ (10294 posts) -

@belegorm: I'd say for reference the improved d-pad doesn't feel quite as good as the one on the dualshock, but is so massively improved over the old style one that it saves the 360 controller of it's biggest flaw (being that old d-pad).

Still I'd argue finding a program to emulate the 360 controller is easier than the olden days of setting manual control, mostly because buttons were numbered non-sensically and button prompts in those PC games were incomprehensible. I remember games with QTEs being impossible because they'd give you a button prompt like "button 10" or something that meant nothing to anyone. Now at least that it all maps to 360 buttons, it's easy to translate that mentally (A=Cross, Y=Triangle, etc). I think having that standard makes it easier even without a 360 controller (and I have plenty of generic non-360 USB controllers myself).

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