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    The PC (Personal Computer) is a highly configurable and upgradable gaming platform that, among home systems, sports the widest variety of control methods, largest library of games, and cutting edge graphics and sound capabilities.

    Gaming PCs: Best Performance for the Price (April 1, 2010)

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    Geno

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    #1  Edited By Geno

    Ok, sorry for the duplicate thread, the forum was bugging up for some reason. 
     
    Edit: Fixed up the spacing, GB forum code doesn't mesh well with Word I guess. 
     

    Table of Contents 


    i.                      Introduction

    ii.                    Methodology

    iii.                   Terminology

    iv.                  Graphics Card Rankings

    v.                    $600 Build (Mid end)

    vi.                  $1,000 Build (High end)

    vii.                 $1,400 Build (Extreme)

    viii.               What’s Ahead

    ix.                  Closing Comments

    x.                    Disclaimer and Terms of Use 


    i.                      Introduction 


    This is a new series which will be updated monthly and be used to showcase the most value and performance that can be bought for a gaming PC at 3 price points. These price points will be: $600, $1000, and $1400, providing a good range of builds. I’ve seen many people asking for help building a PC or buying parts at a particular price point, so hopefully this guide will prove useful. The following will be the guidelines to my methodology, along with a glossary containing brief definitions and descriptions of commonly used phrases and abbreviations that you will see a lot when reading about hardware. You can skip around by using Ctrl+F to get to the section that you want. 

    Nvidia’s long awaited GTX 400 series has finally launched in late March, but how does that affect the graphics card market in terms of pricing? Well as it turns out, not very much. The GTX 480 and 470 both outperform the corresponding the HD Radeon 5870 and HD Radeon 5850, but at a higher price point as well. Therefore ATI should feel no pressure as it comfortably sits in the price brackets it currently dominates. We might see some greater conflict later on when Nvidia releases their lower derivative cards, or when they decide to drop prices on their current GT400 series cards, though that might not be for a while.

    For this month, the GTX 400 series will not be under consideration. They have officially launched, but availability isn’t for another 1-2 weeks. We will see how they do next month.

    In response to reader feedback I have closed the $2,000 build section because it seemed the least pertinent to the spirit of the guide, and that is to provide users with the best possible build they can get at a certain price point. Someone who is willing to spend $2,000 or more on a build is probably less focused on value. To cover a larger area of interest, I have changed the build spread from 800,1400,2000 to 600,1000,1400. The lower bound is what I believe to be the minimum budget required in order to achieve the performance outlined in my methodology.

    In this edition I have also fixed some typos, clarified a few things, removed some definitions and added others to the glossary, and done some overall cleanup. I have also improved the graphics card hierarchy for greater accuracy (laughably, last month I placed the HD 5830 quite high when it is actually only slightly better than the 5770), and condensed the build information using pictures.

    Thank you to mrhankey, monkeyroach and other users for corrections and suggestions. 


    ii.                    Methodology 


    Builds must have an acceptable performance in most of the latest games at high to highest quality settings. “Acceptable performance” is defined at a minimum of 40fps average, above 60 preferably. “High settings” is normally what you can enable in the game options menu minus things like high antialiasing (8x+ MSAA), ambient occlusion or tessellation which are extremely taxing for most systems. "Highest settings” is all slider bars pushed to max, including those options not included in “high settings”, and supersampling for older/less demanding games. The highest resolution for a ~$200 monitor will be the default resolution in consideration, which at the current moment is 1920x1080. 4xAA will be the default antialiasing setting since most reviews look at that level of antialiasing, and it provides a significant image quality improvement over 0xAA in most games.

    All pricing will be from newegg.com, the largest North American e-tailer of computer components. Its prices are competitive, it has a good reputation amongst customers, and sticking with one website will keep pricing consistent. For Canadians there is newegg.ca, where prices are generally about 10% higher in Canadian dollars. Combo deals, rebates and sales will generally not be considered because they are extremely transient. Pricing and availability is subject to change and dependent entirely on the retailer, and other places where you may find similar or the same items are Amazon and TigerDirect. Prices used will be as recent as possible, about three days before the publishing date or less.  I will give myself about a 5% leeway in the final cost (meaning an “$600” build may cost up to $630).

    All components will have a reasonable amount of quality to them. If a poorly-reviewed generic motherboard is $20 cheaper to a brand-name, well-reviewed motherboard while carrying the same specs, I am likely to choose the brand-name, well-reviewed motherboard because long term stability is worth more than $20.

    Build considerations will not include exterior features to components such as overclocking potential, core unlocking potential, wattage, temps etc. Many of those things are subjective or hard to measure, and excluding them will keep build methodology consistent. Components will be considered based on their stock performance. Because of the disregard for things like overclocking potential and temps, coolers will not be included in builds. Builds will not include monitor, mouse, keyboard, speakers or OS cost as it is presumed the buyer will get these based on their tastes and needs. In general, to add the cost of a typical monitor and OS you need to add $300. It should be of note however that Windows XP cannot run higher than DirectX9.0c, and 32-bit OS's have a low memory cap at about 3-3.5GB. Builds will also not include shipping or tax fees, for obvious reasons.

    I will not be personally testing any of my builds; instead I will be using cross -analysis from several established hardware sites to give relatively accurate evaluation as to final performance. There are an abundant amount of reviews for each hardware component out there, and I will do my best to provide a fair conclusion for performance based on benchmarks. 


    iii.                   Terminology (Alphabetical) (work in progress) 


    Ambient Occlusion – Technique that provides realistic lighting effects on irregular surfaces. Generally very GPU-intensive.

    Anisotropic Filtering – Filters textures so that they look more accurate over a distance at certain angles. A cobblestone road without AF will look like a muddy road in the distance; with AF turned on, it will still look distinctly like a cobblestone road even as it approaches the horizon. AF is generally not very GPU intensive, even on its highest setting (which is 16x at the moment).

    Antialiasing - Image quality method that reduces the “jaggies” or pixilation around the edges of in-game objects. Typically carried out using the efficient multisampling method, there also exists supersampling antialiasing which uses brute force graphical power to calculate the image in many times its original size, and then downscales that for extreme detail. This typically looks better than any other form of antialiasing, but is also extremely intensive on the hardware. There is also coverage sample antialiasing, quincunx antialiasing, transparency antialiasing and edge-detect antialiasing.

    ATX – Form factor of motherboards. Typically the larger the form factor, the larger the amount of ports and slots there are to use. ATX is the standard size which will fit in pretty much all cases, and other common types include MicroATX (smaller size board typically designed for very specialized uses) or EATX, which is a larger board that can generally only fit in full towers. Examples of such boards are the EVGA X58 Micro and the EVGA SR-2.

    Bottlenecking – When one component significantly limits another. Components depend on each other to operate, and if one component reaches its maximum performance level, the corresponding performance level of a component that depends on it will be “bottlenecked”. Example: Game X has a maximum framerate of 100fps using an extremely fast processor and graphics card, and a framerate of 20fps using an extremely slow processor and the same fast graphics card. The graphics card is capable of attaining 100fps, but can’t due to the slow processor, and is thus being bottlenecked. The extra graphical power it is capable of is essentially being wasted. In system builds it is important for components to be both powerful and balanced.

    CF - Crossfire, ATI’s multi-GPU scaling solution. Crossfire generally refers to 2 cards, Tri-fire 3, and Quad-fire 4. Like SLI, Crossfire will not achieve its theoretical 100% performance boost most of the time, but it will be fairly close.

    CPU – Central Processing Unit. The “brain” of a computer, it essentially directs all of the actions of the other components. In gaming, it’s usually the GPU that is most important in determining performance but an abnormally weak CPU will bottleneck the performance of the graphics card.

    Derivative – Any product coming out after an original hardware launch that is based on the same architecture, but has different specs thus delivering different performance. Generally referred to lower end models of the product line.

    DirectX - An application programming interface for 3D applications including games, usually distributed in runtime libraries. DirectX11 is the newest version of the 3D development platform, sporting features including tessellation, better multithreading support, Shader Model 5.0, and more optimized performance.

    Frames per second (framerate) - The amount of frames that are being processed through hardware per second. Each frame is a fully realized and fully processed view of the game. Games start to feel significantly laggy below 40fps, and 60fps is currently the standard for optimal performance (though higher frames up to 120 currently exist). The frames per second in games is slightly different from the frames per second in television in movies in that it typically lacks motion blur, so high amounts are needed in order to compensate for smoothness. This is why TV and movies look smooth at 24fps, while games are basically unplayable at that framerate.

    FRAPS - Handy program that measures framerates, records benchmarks and movies, and takes screenshots. Generally what reviewers use to measure framerates for their benchmarks.

    Frequency - Also referred to as the "clock". This pertains to the general speed of a component, or how many operations it can execute a second. The basic unit is the hertz (hz) and you will see them described with your processor, graphics card and even your memory. Generally the higher the hertz the better; the actual range of values that the hertz will be in is dependent on the component type and the architecture. For example, CPUs can have frequences over 4Ghz (Giga = billion) with overclocking, and over 3Ghz at stock values. Graphics cards on the other hand currently have hz measurements only in the 600-900Mhz (Mega = million) range, however they have hundreds or even thousands of smaller processors that do work in parallel (in comparison to the 4-8 that exist on a modern CPU).

    The architecture of the component will also affect speed; for instance, quad core intel CPUs based on the Nehalem architecture are faster than corresponding AMD quad cores at the same clock speeds .The GTX 295 with a core clock at 576 Mhz is actually almost twice as fast as the GTX 275 at 633 Mhz, since the 295 is dual GPU and has much more mini-processors (known as shaders and raster operators, and stream processors in ATI's cards etc). While a high frequency is indicative of speed, it always comes down to the real world benchmarks when measuring performance.

    GPU – Graphics Processing Unit. This powers your graphics card and specializes in processing intensive 3D graphics in real time. In contrast to CPUs, they are highly parallel, with lower clock speeds but many more individual processing units. The most important factor in graphics performance.

    GTX - Nvidia’s line of GPUs, the higher the number the better. Currently in the 4xx series.

    HDD - Hard Disk Drive. This is your mass storage device that usually runs on the SATA interface. Windows users are probably familiar with it, it is the drive usually labeled “C:\” in My Computer.

    Hyperthreading - Intel’s built in feature that allows a single physical core to be divided into 2 logical threads; enhances multitasking. Usually has little effect in games but functionality may increase as games become more multithreaded.

    HyperTransport - Replacement for the front side bus, this system has a higher bandwidth and universalizes several different FSB frequencies.

    LGA 1156 - Core i5 and i3 socket. The Core i5 line are quad core processors that serve to bridge the gap between mainstream and enthusiast processors. The Core i3 line of processors are dual core with hyperthreading.

    Multi GPU – Either SLI or Crossfire configuration. When 2 or more graphics cards to communicate to each other over the PCI express lanes, achieving a theoretical x-scaling in performance where x is the number of graphics cards. In reality you usually see less than the theoretical scaling, but the performance benefits from multi-GPU can still be very significant, typically resulting in a 80-90% performance boost rather than the theoretical 100% To get an idea of the performance that multi-GPU yields, refer to these:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCj4r2Gskqw&feature=player_embedded

    http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/radeon-hd5800-crossfirex_5.html#sect0

    http://benchmarkextreme.com/Articles/HD%205870%20TriFire/P1.html

    OS - Operating System. For gaming PCs this will be Windows. The newest version of Windows is Windows 7, and it along with Windows Vista supports DirectX11.

    PCIe - PCI express. This high bandwidth slot is where your graphics cards are inserted. The current version is 2.0, with a 2.1 revision. 3.0 may be arriving later this year (but will take several years still to become standard).

    PhysX – Nvidia’s onboard physics solution. Many of Nvidia’s newer cards come with an onboard PhysX chip, which allows for the efficient processing of physics in games that support it. Physx actually doesn’t require much hardware power, but it will take up an entire graphics card in a multi-GPU setup. ATI cards are also unable to run Physx. That is why some people opt to buy a single, cheap Physx capable card such as the GT 220 and use that as a dedicated card to do Physx. There are other cards where an additional PhysX chip is actually onboard the video card itself, such as the GTX 275 Co-Op Edition.

    QPI - Quick Path Interconnect. The successor to the front side bus and originally seen on AMD chips in the form of HyperTransport, it allows for extremely fast transfer rates from the memory controller to the CPU.

    Radeon HD - ATI’s line of GPUs, the higher the number the better. Currently in the 5xxx series.

    RAM - Random Access Memory, also referred to as just “memory”. These act essentially as worktables for the applications that you run, storing the data of currently active applications to be used. The more and faster RAM that you have, the better games will run (to an extent).

    Resolution – This will affect the overall detail of your game. Changes in resolution decrease performance, as more pixels need to be processed per frame. Standard high end resolutions are 1680x1050, 1920x1080, 1920x1200, and 2560x1600.

    SLI – Scalable Link Interface. Nvidia’s multi-GPU scaling solution. SLI generally refers to 2 cards, Tri-SLI 3, and Quad-SLI 4. Like Crossfire, SLI will not achieve its theoretical 100% performance boost most of the time, but it will be fairly close.

    Socket AM3 - Socket for AMD’s current generation of processors including the Athlon II and Phenom II lines. The Phenom II series consist of triple and quad core CPUs while the Athlon II series consists of dual core CPUs.

    Tower – Otherwise known as a “case”, these will come in mid sized and full sized varieties. Mid sized towers are good for most configurations, but for hot running high end systems or systems containing large components like the higher end Radeon 5000 cards, a full tower or a large sized mid-tower is better for air flow, space, and cooling. Larger cases also allow for easier further expansion such as larger motherboards, additional hard drives or disc bays, and liquid cooling. It is recommended to get a good full tower if you can, since it will be the component that stays with you the longest, but it depends on the system you’re building and your budget as well.

    Vertical sync – Locks your framerate to that of your monitor (usually 60). The benefit of this is it prevents screen tearing, which appears as a thin horizontal line that stretches across your screen momentarily due to the frames exceeding that of your monitor and not matching up, and smooths the overall look of the game. The downside is it reduces performance and creates stuttering if you can’t achieve a consistent 60+ framerate. 


    iv.                  Graphics Card Rankings (strongest to weakest, “=” implies similar average performance) 


    Radeon HD 5970 = Radeon HD 5850 CF

    GTX 480 = GTX 295 = GTX 260 SLI

    Radeon HD 5870

    GTX 470

    Radeon HD 5850

    GTX 285

    GTX 275 = GTX 280 = Radeon HD 4890

    Radeon HD 4870

    GTX 260

    Radeon HD 5830

    Radeon HD 5770

    (anything under this point is not really worthwhile to get in terms of a new gaming PC) 


    v.                    $600 Build (Mid End)

      

    Important Specs:

    AMD Athlon II X3 Triple Core Processor 2.9Ghz, 4Ghz Hypertransport, 1.5MB L2 cache

    XFX Radeon HD 5770 128-bit 1GB GDDR5

    G.Skill 4GB DDR3 RAM 1600Mhz

    Western Digital Caviar Blue 500GB 16MB cache 7200 RPM HDD 


    Conclusion: I found this to be a very well-balanced system, with the X3 435 providing around 75 - 80% of the performance of high end processors for less than half the price. The 5770 also holds its own with many popular games out there at 1920x1080 and 4xAA, getting not quite 60fps average in most cases but certainly playable framerates. In addition, all of the other components are built around the base specs with no excess material being wasted, while at the same time keeping a fairly high degree of quality with a the sturdy Centurion 5 case from Cooler Master, and the modest but proficient Corsair 450W PSU. The motherboard is also very good and allows for an easy upgrade path into the hearty AM3 line. Except in relatively demanding games such as Far Cry 2, Crysis or World in Conflict, this setup will give you outstanding performance at high settings in HD resolution. 


    vi.                  $1,000 Build (High End)

     
      

    Important Specs:

    AMD Phenom II X4 Quad Core Processor 3.2Ghz, 4Ghz Hypertransport, 2MB L2 cache, 6MB L3 cache

    XFX Radeon HD 5870 256-bit 1GB GDDR5

    G.Skill 4GB DDR3 RAM 1600Mhz

    Western Digital Caviar Black 640GB 32MB cache 7200 RPM HDD 


    Conclusion: A gaming machine that has a $1,000 base cost should be able to play the vast majority of titles out there at highest settings – and this does. The Phenom II X4 955 is no slouch and plays with the big boys in most tests. Even more spectacularly, the Radeon HD 5870 plays nearly every game at high to highest settings with above 60fps – extra antialiasing or enabling some ambient occlusion and tesselation should be no problem with this card as well. The usual suspects (Stalker, Crysis etc) may still cause some problems at HD resolutions, but as far as current gaming goes, this build featuring an X4 955 and a 5870 is both a powerful and elegant solution for your gaming needs. 


    vii.                 $1,400 Build (Extreme)

      

    Important Specs:

    Intel Core i5-750 Quad Core Processor 2.66Ghz, 8MB L3 cache

    Diamond Radeon HD 5850 256-bit 1GB GDDR5 Crossfire

    G.Skill 4GB DDR3 RAM 1600Mhz

    Western Digital Caviar Black 1TB 32MB cache 7200 RPM HDD 


    Conclusion:   This extreme end build manifests the maximum power that can be attained from discrete components at this point in time. The Core i5-750 matches the gaming performance of several fold more expensive top end Core i7 processors. The graphics card configuration of two Radeon HD 5850s in Crossfire matches the performance of the world’s strongest discrete graphics card at the moment, the Radeon HD 5970, while being less expensive and easier to obtain. Not only will you be getting utterly ridiculous 100-150+ framerates in modern games at max settings, but you’ll also be able to play at super HD resolutions such as 2560x1600 (if you have a monitor that supports it), use supersampling on less demanding games such as those that run on the Source or Unreal 3 engine, and enable all of the eye candy to the fullest including all of the new DX11 features. Finally, all of that is with a 1TB Western Digital hard drive to store all your files, housed in an extremely sturdy and cool looking Antec 1200, and powered by a robust and dependable Corsair 750W PSU. With this build, you will seriously get what you paid for. 


    viii.               What’s Ahead? 


    Fermi has officially launched and has very interesting performance numbers, but will the cost be justified by the performance? Will they even be available in mass quantities? We’ll have to wait till next month to see. ATI’s responding with a 5870 2GB version that doubles the available memory for high resolution gaming, and later Intel will be releasing their “K” series of CPUs to the LGA 1156 line in order to combat AMD’s successful “Black Edition” CPUs. Who will arise the victor? Well the consumers of course! All that and more in the coming editions. 


    ix.                  Closing Comments 


    For this month, I really liked the change to the build spread. It provided me with more defined boundaries and forced me to think more carefully about what kind of performance I could squeeze out of each component. This led to more “fat-free” configurations, and a more diverse set of hardware choices. Thanks again for reading and I hope it has helped or informed you in some way. As always, if you have any corrections or suggestions feel free to tell me and I will look into it. 


    x.                    Disclaimer and Terms of Use 


    Disclaimer: This is merely a guide to what is currently available in terms of hardware. It is up to you to buy, build, and use responsibly, and by reading this article you agree that I cannot be held liable or indemnible for any damages incurred as a result of the content in this article to any party whatsoever.  

    Terms of Use: This information may be freely used and distributed :). Happy building!

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    sjupp

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    #2  Edited By sjupp

    I love me some computing.

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    LincoIn

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    #3  Edited By LincoIn

    Awesome work dude, very informative well put together.

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    Skald

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    #4  Edited By Skald

    I find it funny how the extreme build costs about as much as a MacBook Pro. 
     
    Oh, Apple.

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    mrhankey

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    #5  Edited By mrhankey

    Love the revisions. Perhaps you could do a $1600 build involving Core i7?
     
    Also, before anyone runs and buys and new Nvidia Fermi card, take a look at tech Techreport's findings.

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    Geno

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    #6  Edited By Geno
    @mrhankey said:

    " Love the revisions. Perhaps you could do a $1600 build involving Core i7?
     
    Also, before anyone runs and buys and new Nvidia Fermi card, take a look at tech Techreport's findings. "

    I'm staying off of Core i7 for now because the platform upgrade alone (mobo+i7 920) will cost close to $200 while offering little to no increase in performance, therefore decreasing performance/price ratio. The Core i7 series are much stronger in productivity tasks than the Core i5 line, but in terms of gaming they're pretty much the same. The Core i5-750 even beats the Core i7 920's performance in games in some cases. 
     
    And yes, I'm aware of Fermi's performance. The GTX 480 is definitely inferior to the HD 5870 from a value standpoint, but the GTX 470 actually has a pretty attractive performance/price ratio compared to the HD 5850. I'm looking into what sort of retail prices we're going to get from that, and how it will compare with performance for next month. By outperforming on average about 10-15% (and in some cases even matching the performance of a 5870), and being priced only $40-50 higher, it's actually fairly competitive. I will take a closer look for next month.
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    mrhankey

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    #7  Edited By mrhankey
    @Geno:
    True about Core i7, i regret that upgrade for my own pc. Wish I'd gone with Core i5 or AMD quad cores. 
     
    My question for you, do you think the technologies Nvidia has invested in...PhysX, 3d Gaming and Tesselation will be important to gamers or will they continue to be a novelty?
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    PhannIOUS

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    #8  Edited By PhannIOUS

    lol@extereme build... i5 and a 5850. Redefining extreme, aren't we? That's called a budget extreme.

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    Ben_H

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    #9  Edited By Ben_H
      You can add that a 5870= two 5770s in Crossfire.  That's what all the benchmarks suggest and my computer (Which has that) agrees.  Also, 2 5770s are about the same price as a 5870 (Or cheaper in my case).
     
    @mrhankey
    said:
    " @Geno: True about Core i7, i regret that upgrade for my own pc. Wish I'd gone with Core i5 or AMD quad cores.   My question for you, do you think the technologies Nvidia has invested in...PhysX, 3d Gaming and Tesselation will be important to gamers or will they continue to be a novelty? "
    I went with AMD Quad core.  It runs sooooo cool and is still ridiculously fast and I haven't even overclocked my Phenom II 965 3.4 Ghz yet.
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    Geno

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    #10  Edited By Geno
    @mrhankey said:

    " @Geno: True about Core i7, i regret that upgrade for my own pc. Wish I'd gone with Core i5 or AMD quad cores.   My question for you, do you think the technologies Nvidia has invested in...PhysX, 3d Gaming and Tesselation will be important to gamers or will they continue to be a novelty? "

    Tesselation will only be a bigger part games in the future. I imagine it, and later on ray tracing adding on to the general image quality enhancements settings such as antialiasing and anisotropic filtering. Nvidia's tesselation engine so far shows no performance edge in "real games", but as we've seen in tech demoes such as the Heaven Benchmark, it is pretty much twice as strong as ATI's current tesselation engine, maybe more. Fermi is interesting for what it will bring to the gaming table in the future, not right now. 3D gaming in my personal opinion won't be pertinent to gamers until they can make properly working autostereoscopic panels (not requiring glasses) at consumer level prices, which probably won't be for at least another 5-10 years. 3D gaming solutions currently exist, but they're still unwieldy and expensive. PhysX is...well...bleh. I thought it was used to very good effect in Batman Arkham Asylum, and I thought it played a role in Mirror's Edge as well, but it will never develop into a gameplay-related mechanism until they can make it a standardized industry API. It will also require better multithreading support for performance reasons (currently seems over-strenuous to me), but according to reports the latest API version working on the Fermi cards delivers double the performance of that of the GT200 series, which is good. More games need to make use of it though.  
     

    @PhannIOUS

    said:

    " lol@extereme build... i5 and a 5850. Redefining extreme, aren't we? That's called a budget extreme. "

    Firstly it's 5850 Crossfire (as in x2, see the glossary), which is equivalent to a 5970. Such a configuration is easily in the top 0.1-1% of performance out there, putting it several standard deviations from the average, and thus extreme. Secondly, there are of course PCs with a Quad GPU setup and Core i7 Extreme Edition processor with liquid cooling plus a $500 motherboard, costing $4,000-$5,000 to build and are meant to break performance records, but the purpose of this guide is to help prospective and current PC gamers by looking at performance/price and how it relates to current gaming, not just pure performance. 
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    OwnlyUzinWonHan

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    #11  Edited By OwnlyUzinWonHan

    I noticed you used DDR3 1600 memory sticks in all three builds. Is 1600 the sweet spot for performance and price?

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    jmrwacko

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    #12  Edited By jmrwacko
    @PhannIOUS said:
    " lol@extereme build... i5 and a 5850. Redefining extreme, aren't we? That's called a budget extreme. "
    That's crossfire 5850s. And the title of the thread is "best performance for the price," so that's exactly what he means by "extreme."
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    Geno

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    #13  Edited By Geno
    @OwnlyUzinWonHan said:

    " I noticed you used DDR3 1600 memory sticks in all three builds. Is 1600 the sweet spot for performance and price? "

    Different speeds from 1066-1600 all cost the same, so there's no reason not to get a faster version. The ultra-high versions such as the 2400mhz ones are very expensive right now, and are only used by people looking to break performance records (under normal circumstances they would also offer no performance benefit unless you're overclocking). Currently, RAM speed isn't a significant bottleneck and adjusting the timings will have a larger effect on performance anyway. This guide does not consider overclocking or any other exterior adjustments for consistency and simplicity's sake.  
     
    Further reading if you're interested:

    http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/core-i7-870-1156,2482-8.html     
    http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/26
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    Great work, dude.  It sucks to see how much more I could get for the price I payed for a computer last year.  Although it would be more expensive if you add in the monitor, keyboard, and mouse I got.

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    mikeeegeee

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    #15  Edited By mikeeegeee
    @Geno: 
     Kick ass post. Building one five months from now so I hope you're still going. If not, I'll refer to this. 
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    Geno

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    #16  Edited By Geno
    @Ben_H said:
    "   You can add that a 5870= two 5770s in Crossfire.  That's what all the benchmarks suggest and my computer (Which has that) agrees.  Also, 2 5770s are about the same price as a 5870 (Or cheaper in my case).

    Thanks, I will add that in the next issue. 
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    s7evn

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    #17  Edited By s7evn

    Nice thread. I'll check it out if you update it and if I upgrade this summer

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    captain_clayman

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    #18  Edited By captain_clayman
    @mrhankey said:
    " @Geno: True about Core i7, i regret that upgrade for my own pc. Wish I'd gone with Core i5 or AMD quad cores.   My question for you, do you think the technologies Nvidia has invested in...PhysX, 3d Gaming and Tesselation will be important to gamers or will they continue to be a novelty? "
    i think the core i5 CPU's themselves are great, but the problem is the motherboards aren't really what i'd call "high-end"
     
    there are some good ones, but they're over 200 dollars, so at that point, why not just get core i7.
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    #19  Edited By captain_clayman

    i've been looking around at core i5 motherboards.
    what would you say is THE best P55 board?  as far as features, such as overclocking and crossfire.

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    #20  Edited By Geno
    @captain_clayman said:

    " i've been looking around at core i5 motherboards. what would you say is THE best P55 board?  as far as features, such as overclocking and crossfire. "

       
     Gigabyte P55A UD6 (SATA III and USB 3.0 included)
     
    Reference:  http://hothardware.com/Articles/P55-Motherboard-Roundup/?page=1 
     
    The newest model, P55A UD7 has also been well received.

    Crossfire uses multiple PCIe 2.0 slots; these operate at 16x, 8x and 4x speeds depending on the motherboard (any motherboard or configuration with using only 1 slot will run at 16x regardless). 16x and 8x are the same for now differing by 5% at most, but 4x tends to bottleneck cards significantly and is thus not recommended. Look at the motherboard's hardware specs, and see what speed each slot runs in, it will usually say. In the case of the above motherboard, the UD6 runs at 16x for 1 GPU and 8x for 2 GPU configurations, which is fairly typical for dual slot motherboards, and the UD7 runs at 16x/16x I believe. 
     
    @captain_clayman said:

    " @mrhankey said:

    " @Geno: True about Core i7, i regret that upgrade for my own pc. Wish I'd gone with Core i5 or AMD quad cores.   My question for you, do you think the technologies Nvidia has invested in...PhysX, 3d Gaming and Tesselation will be important to gamers or will they continue to be a novelty? "
    i think the core i5 CPU's themselves are great, but the problem is the motherboards aren't really what i'd call "high-end"   there are some good ones, but they're over 200 dollars, so at that point, why not just get core i7. "
     
    The Core i7 platform is much more expensive than Core i5 while not giving significantly better performance in games, so from a value standpoint it's hard to justify at the given budgets unless you tend to do lots of pure processing work as well, but that's outside the scope of this guide. The more expensive Core i5 motherboards are not considered because they offer a lot of extraneous features such as overclocking ability that is also not focused on in this guide. The recommended motherboards are of great quality and are able to function without bottlenecking anything, and that's enough for the purposes of this guide.
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    TheHBK

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    #21  Edited By TheHBK

    Fucking awesome post man.  Thanks a lot.  I am gonna build my first gaming PC this summer and so glad to have something like this around.

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    #22  Edited By Scooper

    Keep it up Geno. I love reading these and one day I'll use it to actualy buy a new system.

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    #23  Edited By Joru

    Your post was very useful in choosing the part for a new system. I really appreciate the work you've done here, and it has certainly helped me greatly.

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    #24  Edited By Geno

    Okay guys, first of all thank you for your comments. 
     
    I'm going to be choosing components for next month's edition in a couple of weeks and I was wondering about some things:  
     
    1) Do you guys want operating system cost included in total?  
    2) Do you guys want bare minimum or reasonable minimum when it comes to "non-critical" components such as cases and hard drives. Because substantial money can certainly be skimped on those but it can lead to awkward systems like a high end build with only 250GB HDD or an extreme build in a mid tower case etc. Right now I am trying to keep a reasonable minimum with non-critical components scaling with the processor and GPU, but that obviously incurs a higher cost.  
     
    Tell me what you think. 

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    This is the most retarted list I have ever seen.  First off, I wouldnt sell or tell an asshole I know to go out and buy an antec Earthwatts power supply, I mean at least get the new TP-II ones, at the very most you want corsair/pc power and cooling. 
     
    How about you make an Intel list and an AMD list go dual core, low speed quad for the midrange, and finish it off with the most expensive parts you can buy from either side.  Instead of saying buy xxxxx video card and xxxxx case and xxxxx hard drive, why not list specifications (Ex: 1 tb 7200 RPM Sata II drive) and an estimated cost.  For video cards/cases I find it is best to just say "video card budget" $200-$250 or something like that.  Same with memory, you cannot choose one brand over the other simply because that is what YOU like.  Lastly, this is the 2nd time I have seen these pictures on this board, WTF are you doing telling people to buy a TX powersupply from corsair when the HX version is clearly better, more effecient, and will help keep things cooler and wiring easier.
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    FirePrince

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    #26  Edited By FirePrince

    My last computer was 1.300$,bought it in 2007,and had to upgrade(got a graphics card) in the winter of 2009.So 3 years,and already I had to go and buy a 100$ card. 
    I really failed with my computer build didn't I??
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    #27  Edited By Geno
    @nabokovfan87 said:

    " This is the most retarted list I have ever seen.  First off, I wouldnt sell or tell an asshole I know to go out and buy an antec Earthwatts power supply, I mean at least get the new TP-II ones, at the very most you want corsair/pc power and cooling. 

    Could you direct me to the newegg page that has this? I tried searching for it but couldn't find anything. Maybe they're not in stock yet or out of stock? From what I could tell, there's nothing wrong with the Earthwatts, and they are in fact Antec's highest rated series on Newegg. 
     

    @nabokovfan87

    said:

     How about you make an Intel list and an AMD list go dual core, low speed quad for the midrange, and finish it off with the most expensive parts you can buy from either side.

    The title of this thread is "best performance for the price", therefore parts are picked on performance/price, not brands. Currently the most value for money can be derived from triple and mid-high speed quad cores, with dual cores costing almost as much or more than a very good tri-core , the X3 435 while being worse. I also don't see the point of listing the most expensive parts possible, especially given the purpose of this thread. 
     

    @nabokovfan87

    said:

     Instead of saying buy xxxxx video card and xxxxx case and xxxxx hard drive, why not list specifications (Ex: 1 tb 7200 RPM Sata II drive) and an estimated cost.  For video cards/cases I find it is best to just say "video card budget" $200-$250 or something like that.  Same with memory, you cannot choose one brand over the other simply because that is what YOU like. 

    First of all, that is what I'm doing, I'm merely offering those listed in the pictures as examples. Anything from other manufacturers with the same or comparable specs, and from any other reputable retailer is perfectly acceptable (this is listed in my methodology). I also think that it would be more useful for readers to operate on a distinct budget, and not just list components over broad ranges like "$200-$250". For instance I think recommending a 5870 (due to its performance/price) for a high end system and providing benchmarks is more useful than saying "you should get a GPU setup for around $350-$450".  
     

    @nabokovfan87

    said:

     Lastly, this is the 2nd time I have seen these pictures on this board, WTF are you doing telling people to buy a TX powersupply from corsair when the HX version is clearly better, more effecient, and will help keep things cooler and wiring easier. "

    The power supply I listed is both the highest rated and bestselling power supply on Newegg (and therefore also the highest rated and bestselling PSU at its wattage), while being only about 2/3 the cost of the one you are suggesting. I've also seen it in the cases of many professional builders and enthusiasts. It must be doing something right.
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    @Geno said: 

     The title of this thread is "best performance for the price", therefore parts are picked on performance/price, not brands. Currently the most value for money can be derived from triple and mid-high speed quad cores, with dual cores costing almost as much or more than a very good tri-core , the X3 435 while being worse. I also don't see the point of listing the most expensive parts possible, especially given the purpose of this thread.  
     

    First of all, that is what I'm doing, I'm merely offering those listed in the pictures as examples. Anything from other manufacturers with the same or comparable specs, and from any other reputable retailer is perfectly acceptable (this is listed in my methodology). I also think that it would be more useful for readers to operate on a distinct budget, and not just list components over broad ranges like "$200-$250". For instance I think recommending a 5870 (due to its performance/price) for a high end system and providing benchmarks is more useful than saying "you should get a GPU setup for around $350-$450".  
     
    The power supply I listed is both the highest rated and bestselling power supply on Newegg (and therefore also the highest rated and bestselling PSU at its wattage), while being only about 2/3 the cost of the one you are suggesting. I've also seen it in the cases of many professional builders and enthusiasts. It must be doing something right. "


     
     
    TP-II New stuff:  http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817371022  

    Take a look at the actual rating of the two corsair 750 watt power supplies, one the TX model is non-modular and has a basic 80 plus rating, the HX model is 80 plus SILVER and costs 50 dollars more, offers modularity and if you dig around in the actual mechanics of what is inside the boxes, you get better quality capacitors and such inside so there is a legitimate reason behind the ratings. 
     
    Notice how your power supply is "750 watts" but is actually only 720 while the one I suggested is 744 watts 
     
    As far as you ARE doing what I said, how the hell is listing a case, hard drive, and a specific video card a budget?  saying you need xxxx spec for video cards is rediculous unless you say DX11 $150-$200
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    #29  Edited By Geno
    @nabokovfan87 said: 
     
    TP-II New stuff:  http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817371022  

    Take a look at the actual rating of the two corsair 750 watt power supplies, one the TX model is non-modular and has a basic 80 plus rating, the HX model is 80 plus SILVER and costs 50 dollars more, offers modularity and if you dig around in the actual mechanics of what is inside the boxes, you get better quality capacitors and such inside so there is a legitimate reason behind the ratings.  Notice how your power supply is "750 watts" but is actually only 720 while the one I suggested is 744 watts  As far as you ARE doing what I said, how the hell is listing a case, hard drive, and a specific video card a budget?  saying you need xxxx spec for video cards is rediculous unless you say DX11 $150-$200 "

     
    According to the link you gave me:  
     
    "  We apologize for the inconvenience, but the item you are looking for has been deactivated. Here are some similar products that you may wish to consider:" And then it lists the Antec EarthWatts series. 
     
    Modularity could be an important factor, but if you will take the time to read my methodology, I clearly state that external factors not reflected in benchmarks and not reasonably necessary are generally not considered. I also don't think 24 watts is an appreciable difference in effective wattage.  
     
    I don't know if you can see the pictures, maybe there is something wrong with your browser, but full builds (minus OS) including all of the prices are listed quite clearly, along with benchmarks. 
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    #30  Edited By nukesniper

    Oh wow. Thanks for this. I'm always looking for the right time to build a computer. This is totally helpful.

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    Go on newegg and search for antec tp new 
     
    here is another link to the exact same thing, again. 
     
    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817371025   
     
     Did I say anything about if it was an appreciable difference?  Look, these two are supposed to be made by the same company the same wattage except for the modularity of it, CLEARLY one is a hell of a lot better then the other just going by the silver rating, and if you look at the output wattage you can see why. 
     
    I'm done arguing and giving you links, you clearly are an idiot.
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    #32  Edited By Geno
    @nabokovfan87 said:

    "
    Go on newegg and search for antec tp new 
     
    here is another link to the exact same thing, again. 
     
    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817371025     Did I say anything about if it was an appreciable difference?  Look, these two are supposed to be made by the same company the same wattage except for the modularity of it, CLEARLY one is a hell of a lot better then the other just going by the silver rating, and if you look at the output wattage you can see why.  I'm done arguing and giving you links, you clearly are an idiot. "

    First of all, calm down. I have done nothing to offend you and you seem to be very angry. I welcome all suggestions, but I don't appreciate the unwarranted rude attitude.
     
    The link you originally provided was broken. You can tell just by looking at the string at the end of the URL that the one you originally provided and the one that you provide now are different, so it's not my fault that I couldn't access the page the first time. 
     
    I checked out the one that you linked to. Firstly, it's a Bronze rating, not Silver, so that makes the efficiency difference between 80 Plus and Bronze about 3%, which is in line with the numbers that you provided yourself; about 20-25W.  This whole time you have been talking about efficiency and modularity and how my choice of power supply was grossly subpar. The effective wattage difference you yourself supplied shows that the efficiency difference is very little, and in terms of the build doesn't affect it anyway since the build would barely approach the max wattage even under peak load. If you don't care whether or not it was an appreciable difference, then why did you supply the numbers and make a big deal out of it? 
     
    In terms of an attribute such as modularity, not only is it not considered within the premise of this guide (see Methodology), but according to customer reviews it is hardly modular at all, with close to the same or the same number of hardwired cables that would be on most non-modular PSUs. This is quite apparent in review photos: 
     

    No Caption Provided

     Luckily, I did some further research to find one advantageous aspect of the TP-750 - noise. According to the PCPer review, the noise level stays relatively constant at all loads at around 30 dBa. The 750TX on the other hand goes up to 40 and above at peak loads - this was one aspect I was not aware of. Considering their close price proximity, this actually makes the TP-750 an attractive offer. Despite your attitude and general lack of awareness towards the purpose of this guide, it seems you have actually provided some fairly valuable information. If I use it in the next edition you will get credit, if you want.
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    I checked out the one that you linked to. Firstly, it's a Bronze rating, not Silver, so that makes the efficiency difference between 80 Plus and Bronze about 3%, which is in line with the numbers that you provided yourself; about 20-25W.  This whole time you have been talking about efficiency and modularity and how my choice of power supply was grossly subpar. The effective wattage difference you yourself supplied shows that the efficiency difference is very little, and in terms of the build doesn't affect it anyway since the build would barely approach the max wattage even under peak load. If you don't care whether or not it was an appreciable difference, then why did you supply the numbers and make a big deal out of it? 

     
     My point is the OUTPUT is not an appreciable difference in this scenario but something people need to be aware of when buying the part in the first place.  Moreover, the reason it doesnt matter at all is because I was saying that in this scenario the only thing that matters, should matter, is the effeciency difference. 
     
     Luckily, I did some further research to find one advantageous aspect of the TP-750 - noise. According to the PCPer review, the noise level stays relatively constant at all loads at around 30 dBa. The 750TX on the other hand goes up to 40 and above at peak loads - this was one aspect I was not aware of. Considering their close price proximity, this actually makes the TP-750 an attractive offer. Despite your attitude and general lack of awareness towards the purpose of this guide, it seems you have actually provided some fairly valuable information. If I use it in the next edition you will get credit, if you want.           
     
    I could care less about credit, and to be honest, the point of this guide is go buy xxxx parts if you want to spend xxxx amount.  If you want to tell people what to look for in a part, or when buying a pc, a guide to buying/building a pc then you shouldn't be talking components at all but strait up terminology.  The point of me getting all pissed is because I say something and you answer about something completely different.  I said the earthwatts was an old outdated POS and you told me that you couldnt find anything newer.  Did you ever go to antec's site?  Back to my whole point about getting modular corsair over the regular one, it has better phsical parts on it (uses solid capacitors for EVERYTHING and not just one component as the TX does), also, take a look at the rating effeciency chart you linked to, at 50% load (which 9 times out of 10 you will be using) a 10% difference from regular to silver.  You have a higher output wattage, better parts, better effeciency which leads to lower electricity bills, how in the hell is it not worth the initial price hike?  Like I said, if you are doing a guide about buying parts you shouldn't be talking antec or corsair but get the highest effeciency, linking to PSU calculators, and doing things like that to teach people instead of tell them what to do. 
     
    Its like the old saying goes, "you can give a man a fish and feed him for a day, but teach him how to fish and you feed him for life."
     
     
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    Your video card "ranking" has a lot of incorrect information, perhaps you should remove that.   Especially considering you aren't doing a price/performance comparison, seperate dx11 and dx10 lists, sort of just clumping into one big misinformation.
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    #35  Edited By Geno
    @nabokovfan87: As you can see in the review and in the standard efficiency charts for PSUs, there is only about a 3% difference between 80 Plus and 80 Plus Bronze (why are you still referring to it as Silver? It's labelled as Bronze on the product page and in reviews). At 50% load, there is determined to be only a 3% experimental difference in efficiency as expected (check the charts again). So again, I find that negligible and not something to get that worked up about. Perhaps it could be said to be a better choice, and I appreciate suggestions, but you're acting as if  I chose a cardboard box for the component when for all intents and purposes they are the same.
     
    I don't and obviously can't read every review of every new part on every website, so it's good that other people can provide useful suggestions, I just wish that it isn't in such a rude manner (I still don't understand what you're angry about, it couldn't have been something I've said since you walked in here angry). I'm volunteering my own time and energy to put these editions up amidst a very busy school schedule, and this series is only in its WIP stages so cut me some slack please. 
     
    I like your suggestion about providing tools such as PSU calculator etc., it is something that I've been planning to implement into my future editions. However, I don't believe it will work on all parts; for instance in graphics cards there are only a handful of cards that are good value for money at the moment (pretty much the R. 5770, R. 5850, R. 5870, and the GTX 470). So in that case I think it's more useful to just list discrete solutions rather than go through what specs and price range to look for. ATI and Nvidia also go by completely different architectures that can't really be compared on a specs basis, so I simply advise people to look at benchmarks and compare prices, which is what I provide.   
     
    Remember also that in my methodology I have stated that there are some factors which are simply impossible to consider on a primary basis such as overclocking, power usage, cooling etc. since it will be different for each person and also of different value depending on their preferences (the same reason why I don't include taxes and shipping in total cost). If any such factors are considered, it is because the core layout of the build (CPU+GPU+RAM) has already been completed and there is some money left over in the budget but not enough to improve the core layout. This can be seen with larger hard drive spaces and larger case sizes. 
     

    @nabokovfan87

    said:

    " Your video card "ranking" has a lot of incorrect information, perhaps you should remove that.   Especially considering you aren't doing a price/performance comparison, seperate dx11 and dx10 lists, sort of just clumping into one big misinformation. "


    If you believe there are corrections needed please list them. It is built on looking at the aggregate rankings on other sites, as well as dozens of reviews on each individual part. Also take note that '=' means similar, not exactly the same. I have not separated them into DX11 and DX10 because at the moment there is not a great impetus to get a card just for DX11 (by the time DX11 goes into full swing better cards will have come out; at the moment only a 5970 level GPU setup or above can really handle tesselation at high settings), rather buyers should look only at performance in non-DX11 for now. The cards that I list as good value are all DX11 anyway. 
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    no, not all of your cards are dx11, the gtx 2xx crap isnt at all, and you have the 480 listed with the 295 wich is wrong, you have the 5970 as two 5850's which it is two 5870's.  I could go on but like I said just take the whole thing out and go learn more. 
     
    THE CORSAIR 750 MODULAR POWER SUPPLY IS SILVER RATED.  NOW DO YOU KNOW WHY I SAID USE THAT ONE! I'm sick and tired of explaining the same shit over again.  Just keep reading until it all makes sense.
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    #37  Edited By Geno
    @nabokovfan87 said:

     no, not all of your cards are dx11, the gtx 2xx crap isnt at all

    The cards I recommend in my builds are HD 5770, HD 5870, and HD 5850 CF. I never recommended any GT 200 cards. They are simply there on the hierarchy chart in order for people currently owning GT200 cards to know where their current performance stands. You must have misinterpreted the function of the chart. 
     

    @nabokovfan87

    said:

    you have the 480 listed with the 295 wich is wrong

     The 480 from all of the benchmarks I've seen outperform the HD 5870 by about 15% on average, which is in line with the GTX 295. The GTX 480 is slightly stronger than the GTX 295 about half the time, and the GTX 295 is slightly stronger than the GTX 480 about half the time.
     
    Example benchmarks: 
     
    http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/NVIDIA/GeForce_GTX_480_Fermi/1.html  
    http://www.guru3d.com/article/geforce-gtx-470-480-review/1  
     

    @nabokovfan87

    said:

    you have the 5970 as two 5850's which it is two 5870's

    This is a common mistake. The 5970 is 5870 CF architecturally but the performance is that of 5850 CF because it is downclocked. This is shown in almost every benchmark out there. 5870 CF consistently outperforms both 5970 and 5850 CF by an expected amount, about 20% since a 5870 is about 20% faster than a 5850.  
     
    Example benchmarks: 
     
    http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/radeon-hd-5970,2474.html
    http://www.anandtech.com/show/2877/1      
     

    @nabokovfan87

    said:

    THE CORSAIR 750 MODULAR POWER SUPPLY IS SILVER RATED.  NOW DO YOU KNOW WHY I SAID USE THAT ONE! I'm sick and tired of explaining the same shit over again.  Just keep reading until it all makes sense. "

     First of all, you linked to this one:     

    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817371025  
     
    Which is bronze  

      
       

    You further corroborated my assumption that that was the one you were referring to when you used the review link I provided of the TP-750 and didn't say anything.  
     
    Secondly, I have addressed long ago that the 750HX is not necessarily worth its $50 price premium over the TX. According to tests the HX offers only about a 4% efficiency difference over the TX. The 750TX is the highest rated and best selling PSU on Newegg for a reason; because it's the best performance over price at the moment. Modularity is also not really a consideration in this thread because were are talking game performance in terms of how these components are chosen and how the budget is split up. That is why according to my methodology (which you probably still haven't read) such extraneous features are not immediately under consideration.
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    Azteck

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    #38  Edited By Azteck

    Someone needs to go take a nap or something.
     
    Anyways. Thanks for creating this thread. I'm sure it will prove useful to me in the somewhat near future.

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    deactivated-59fb4bc479490

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    The cards I recommend in my builds are HD 5770, HD 5870, and HD 5850 CF. I never recommended any GT 200 cards. They are simply there on the hierarchy chart in order for people currently owning GT200 cards to know where their current performance stands. You must have misinterpreted the function of the chart.  


     

     
     Tell me, how the hell do i misinterpret this: 
     

     iv.                  Graphics Card Rankings     

    iv.                  Graphics Card Rankings (strongest to weakest, “=” implies similar average performance) 


    Radeon HD 5970 = Radeon HD 5850 CF

    GTX 480 = GTX 295 = GTX 260 SLI

    Radeon HD 5870

    GTX 470

    Radeon HD 5850

    GTX 285

    GTX 275 = GTX 280 = Radeon HD 4890

    Radeon HD 4870

    GTX 260

    Radeon HD 5830

    Radeon HD 5770

    (anything under this point is not really worthwhile to get in terms of a new gaming PC)      


     
    Like I said before,  your shit is just wrong, it all depends on the test, the site who performed, the game the test was run, hell, according to this one, the 5850 is the best shit out there. 
     

     
     


    or you can go by any one of these and get a different result: 
     

     
     



     

     
     



     

     
     



     

     
     



     

     
     



     

     
     



     

     
     



     

     
     



     

     
     


    But you know everything and your the smartest person in the world so YOU tell everyone the truth right?
     

     

    First of all, you linked to this one:     

    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817371025  
     
    Which is bronze    

       
    You further corroborated my assumption that that was the one you were referring to when you used the review link I provided of the TP-750 and didn't say anything.  
     
    Secondly, I have addressed long ago that the 750HX is not necessarily worth its $50 price premium over the TX. According to tests the HX offers only about a 4% efficiency difference over the TX. The 750TX is the highest rated and best selling PSU on Newegg for a reason; because it's the best performance over price at the moment. Modularity is also not really a consideration in this thread because were are talking game performance in terms of how these components are chosen and how the budget is split up. That is why according to my methodology (which you probably still haven't read) such extraneous features are not immediately under consideration. "  
     
    The first thing I said was what is quoted below then I had to link you to them to prove they existed because newegg search is hard to work apparently, then I told you that instead of the corsair TX you should be recommending the HX because AT 50% LOAD WHICH IS WHAT MOST PEOPLE WILL SPEND MOST TIME WORKING UNDER THAT IT IS A 10% EFFECIENCY DIFFERENCE.  IM DONE WITH THIS THREAD, JUST DO WHATEVER YOU WANT IM TIRED OF TRYING TO WORK AROUND ENGLISH UNDERSTANDING TO TELL PEOPLE UR FULL OF SHIT.

    This is the most retarted list I have ever seen.  First off, I wouldnt sell or tell an asshole I know to go out and buy an antec Earthwatts power supply, I mean at least get the new TP-II ones, at the very most you want corsair/pc power and cooling.     

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    SlasherMan

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    #40  Edited By SlasherMan

    Very nice effort. Very much like Tom's Hardware System Builder Marathons which they do every once in a while. They did one last month I believe, also with 3 different price points one of which they went crazy with. At the end, they did a value comparison. I'll let you guess which build won.... ;)
     
    $750:  http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/value-gaming-pc,2578.html
    $1500:  http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/best-core-i7,2582.html
    $3000:  http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/performance-pc-ssd,2568.html 
     Value comparison: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/system-builder-marathon,2581.html

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    #41  Edited By Geno
    @nabokovfan87: I'm sorry you feel that way, but before you suggest something (or fling unwarranted insults) you should a) read the methodology and b) do correct research.  
     
    1. The graphics hierarchy chart clearly lists the cards in terms of absolute performance.  
      
    This is what it says: "strongest to weakest, "=" implies similar average performance
     
    You accused me of suggesting that the GT200 was good value for money and that I didn't know the difference between DX10 and DX11, both of which are incorrect. Clearly you confused the function of the chart.  
     
     
    2. This is a more suitable chart since it is the setting under consideration, and is also focusing on monetary value rather than wattage (as listed in my methodology):  
     
     
    No Caption Provided

     
    The bottom few cards are excluded due to not meeting the minimum performance requirements, and last gen cards are excluded due to limited availability. What we get as a result is what I have recommended as the best cards for money, the 5770, 5850 and 5870. And yes, the 5850 is very good value for money. I don't see anything wrong with that statement.   
     
    3. All 3DMark benches are synthetic benches and thus irrelevant to real world game performance. There are plenty of benchmarks for current, specific games, and to which I have provided, so it boggles the mind why you would reach for synthetic benches. Do you not see how that is irrelevant? 3Dmark benches are only a rough indicator of performance and almost no reviewer takes those results into account in the final tally. I also have no idea what you were trying to prove with them in the first place, you tried to compare a "Performance per Watt" Chart with a "GPU Cloth" synthetic bench. Huh? 
     
    My chart is in line with other aggregate charts, perhaps you should give those a look as well. 
     
    4. Then the last two pictures you provide simply confirm what I was telling you before, that 5850 CF = 5970 in performance. Again, huh? 

    5. Finally, there is no "TP-II" on Newegg, so it's not really my fault you provided both the wrong name and the wrong link. And according to the benches that I have provided before, there is only a 3, max 4% difference in efficiency at 50% load between the TX and HX (even the theoretical difference between 80 Plus and Silver is not 10% so I don't know where you're getting that number from), which is negligible and probably not worth the +$50 price premium over the TX.  
     
      
    You really need to calm down, and do some proper research before replying back. According to your responses you still haven't read the methodology, which seems to be the root cause of most of your issues. In addition your knowledge isn't even on the level to know that gaming performance can't be measured directly through 3DMark. I don't think I'm the "retarded" "idiot" that's "full of shit" here. I appreciate suggestions, but not if they are blatantly wrong and worded offensively. 

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