I bought GTA IV on day of release on Steam and the game ran at 7 frames a second if my memory serves me correctly. There were some serious issues with the game and after a patch here and there it started running again. The thing is that, still, even with a recommended system spec, I was not getting the performance I expected out of the game. The same goes for a lot of PC games, if a system meets minimum requirements that usually means it's unplayable. If a system meets the recommended, you're probably going to get performance issues while turning a few things down or off altogether.

This isn't the case with all games, some do better than others and Left 4 Dead is a great example of a game with good optimisation. When there is a demo of a PC game you have the chance to see if your rig can handle the game as how you think it should - and following that you make a purchase or not. Without a demo you're going on these recommended system settings that must be made purely to sell the game. You didn't see ads for Crysis with things turned to medium, yet what is advertised is completely at odds with what they recommend out of a PC.

If I could go back, I would totally have pirated myself a copy of GTA IV and then decided not to get it. I was sold something that was broken and then refused a refund by Steam. That shouldn't be legal.

So when a game is released without a demo, like Far Cry 2 for example, do you think it's ok as a consumer to try before you buy; illegally downloading the game and giving it a go?

(some people use the "try before you buy" as a cover for just being theiving bastards, but that's not what I'm talking about)

Why not? If you actually do buy it or treat it as a demo I see no harm. However that is the downside of PC gaming you need to exceed the minimum specs significantly for a chance at the game, also min specs don't include resolution on them as playing at 1920x1200 is a lot different then playing at 1024x768 with a dated system. Try it yourself, give yourself a demo of the game and then buy and install the DRM infested game.

It's not legal, but it might be moral, but it depends.

What if you pirate the game, and it runs fine, but you quickly beat it?  Are you still going to buy it?  What if you didn't think it was a great game?  So then your logic extends beyond 'will it play' to 'will I enjoy it?'.  Fine right?  No reason to support crappy games?  Well then things get a little shaky.  You've already played the game, you're already getting enjoyment from it, maybe that enjoyment went down as you played, and while you enjoyed the first few hours, now you don't.  It's not like you can play any game for a minute and tell how well the whole thing performs, so obviously you're going to play for a few hours at least.

Now what if you extend that to all platforms?  Maybe I won't like Modern Warfare 2, should I pirate a copy and play it for a few weeks and see if IW deserves my money.  That's where things get really crooked IMO, and that's where piracy goes in many people's cases.

My judgment is that's not morally right, simply because you're bound to make further judgments on the game.  If you're morally strong enough to buy the game after you've pirated it even if you realize you don't like it, I'd say you're honest enough to do this.  Otherwise you're just hurting game development.

if i made a game, in a big company, i would want money, but at the same time, i would want as many people as possible to play it i think.

It's illegal, but if a person is honestly going to buy the game if it actually does run then I don't see it as a bad thing.

Get a console and you wont have any of these problems.. unless you are getting Too Human or other poorly coded games...

But nah, i don't dissagree with it... Just like i don't disagree with downloading a game and playing it if you have the original copy as to preserve the original CD... If only i could have done that with my Original Starcraft CD... I'm on my 3rd copy of the game... would have saved money if i was able to burn it and play it online whilst having the original copy...

Ya know what, if they don't release a demo... I can't blame ya.

There's no law against it, so no.
Also, people don't play pirated games.

Yes

"Get a console and you wont have any of these problems.. unless you are getting Too Human or other poorly coded games...But nah, i don't dissagree with it... Just like i don't disagree with downloading a game and playing it if you have the original copy as to preserve the original CD... If only i could have done that with my Original Starcraft CD... I'm on my 3rd copy of the game... would have saved money if i was able to burn it and play it online whilst having the original copy..."

It makes you a bad person... very bad.

It's definitely illegal, but I suppose it might be all right if you have no other way to test the game whatsoever (e.g. demos and such). Just as long as you don't just say to yourself you'll "test" the first five chapters or something and before you know it, you've played through the game without having bought it. That's a bit more reprehensible in my book.

poll totally depends on morals.
i find no problem with downloading and playing games before i buy them.
most people that download also dont have the intentions of buying the game in the first place though.

If you are seriously going to buy the game if it runs fine, then I don't see the harm in it. However if you play half the game and then decide not to purchase it because you don't like it, then that's just being a douche. But to just check out a quick level or two to make sure everything runs ok, and then buy it, I see no harm in that. Problem is that almost no one actually stays true to their word and they just end up playing the pirated copy all the way through and never pay for it.

Nah, I don't think it's wrong to pirate a game that doesn't have a demo to see if you can run it as long as you buy it right after.

I totally agree. For example I recently bought Dead Space for PC. I played the demo on PS3 and thought it was awesome, but I really cannot stand how terrible the mouse/keyboard control is. Had I known this going in I would have not bought it for PC.

Publishers need to quit bitching or release a demo.

If there isn't a demo and your intentions to buy are genuine, then why not.

Though I expect alot of people, would just say "Yay, it works!" Then just play it anyway. Then think, why buy it now?!

Legally yes, morally no.

No but if you got it running, whats gonna make you stop playing.  Of course this is what demos are for but yeah, PC game makers need to do a better job of releasing demos or tech demos to let you know if your machine can run it, kind of like what Valve did when Half Life 2 came out, included a spec measuring tool.

Nope,but its just gotta be to make sure you can run it.

If you treated it as a demo and played the first level and then made the decision: "Does this game run well on my comp and is it any good. Yes it does and it's really fun I think I'll go buy a retail copy for $50" or "Does this game run well on my comp and is it any good. Yes it does and it's really fun I think I'll finish it and not pay $50".

No one's going to do the first choice. I'd say nearly everyone would give in. It's like "Aah, spent a week torrenting this whole game to only play it for half an hour, now I gotta go to the shop and spend like $60? I can't be assed."

When everything said and done, at the end of the day, piracy will always be piracy no matter how you twist and turn it. A judge wont go soft on you no matter what reason you might give to justify it.

How about you just go to the System Requirements Lab?

No I don't think so and especially considering a lot of games lock to an account or computer plus many games don't release demo's now so if it does run crappy you can't return it. As long as you do buy it rather than keep the pirated copy it's fine.

Nope, I don't think it's "wrong" if you were to download it without the intent of buying it either. I would say it's unsupportive to the buisness, but not wrong.

Use this website instead:
http://www.srtest.com/referrer/srtest

Well it depends on if your the guy that "forgets" to buy it afterwards. Also, it is technically and legally wrong, but in my opinion it isnt^^, even though I rarely do it myself. When in doubt, I use www.canyourunit.com

This is a difficult subject. On one hand, its not good because one should always support the developers who (most of the time) put so much effort into making a game. On the other hand, this is the whole problem with PC gaming and requirements.

I used to be a huge PC gamer, though I stopped those ways as the technology started to sky rocketed and it just wasn't feasible for the pocketbook anymore. PC gaming is really expensive, and you then have to deal with requirements on top of it. So looking at it from that sense, yeah alright Pirate a game and give it a shot. The problem then is, once you have it will you really go out and buy it? You say you will now, but the liklihood once its actually installed and running on the machine is that you wont. Therefore in the end, it probably isn't a good idea to do it.

Though that all said, I still voted yes. Probably because I am guilty of it myself so it would be too hypocritical of me to vote no.

Of course there's the legal side of it, but I really think that there is a good number of those illegal downloads that are used to test out a game or a product that end up being turned into an actual purchase because that person knows exactly what they are getting. Doing this really does suck for those games and applications out there that suck balls and as a result people don't get suckered into buying their POS ;)

I think the correct response here is to not play the game, like at all.  Even if it looks really good and you just want to try it.  Diamond's got it right on this.  But even if you are a morally excellent individual, pirating is not a good idea.  Companies should be "punished" for not making games that either have demos or don't run except on $$$ PC's, in my opinion both.  The problem is that developers don't know why you didn't buy the game, and when the see huge torrent numbers they probably assume the worst, which is that PC gamers are ethically corrupt thieves (and it's probably fair to assume that most of them are, but I hope not).  Developers likely do get lazy when it comes to pc games (especially ports) because they figure people will just pirate them anyway so why bother.  They should (and deserve) to be assured that the pc gaming market is healthy enough to warrent such effort.  I think the only way to clearly send this message is if torrent numbers go down.  I don't believe that old "every pirated copy is a lost sale" arguement, but if I were a developer seeing low sales and high torrents on my baby, I would have trouble not assuming that ethically corrupt thieves are who I'm making games for (and should make games for someone else).

Basically, by torrenting the game (regardless of your intentions), you probably are hurting the pc gamer market.  Please don't do that.  Send a clear signal that a game without a demo will not be tollerated, down buy it, don't torrent it.  Obviously to make the message crystal clear one should probably download available demos and then buy pc games with pleasing demos.

If there isn't a good demo then I think its ok to download a game in order to see if it will run on your PC.  I also thinks its ok to play a little bit of the game to see if you actually enjoy the game. 

I think people who make PC games should release a little downloadable tool which tests to see if your computer can run it
I'm not 100% sure that the "Can You Run It" website is accurate enough

One can usually get a demo of pc games *nearly every pc game has a demo* which will let you find this out...

Game companies only have themselves to blame for this: if they released demo versions, or offered returns policies on games that didn't work on the buyer's hardware, then there would be no motivation for people to pirate in these situations.

I was tired of losing money on games I didn't like, and since PC like, never gets demos, I have pirated games to see if I liked them. If I do, I buy them. If I don't, I delete them. No harm done, IMPO.

first post!

no, I wouldnt say so, if you plan on buying it.
I suppose you could argue that it only makes the problem larger, the more people doing it etc, but I stand by no.

I think it all depends on how much will you have. If you can pirate it, test it for a bit and then go and actually buy it then I dont really see a problem with it. Of course legally its still completely illegal but moraly I dont have a problem with it. The problem comes when you keep playing a game regardless with no intention of buying it.

There are other methods of finding out if a game will run, like "canyourunit.com" (I think), but I doubt that they are any where near as accurate as running the game for real.

Yes, because everybody that says "I'm just testing it!" or "I just wanna see if it's any good!", is lying through their teeth.  In hypothetical fairyland where the proposed scenario exists, it might be ok - in the real world, somebody with a working pirate copy doesn't then grow a conscience and buy a legit copy to make up for it.  If the publisher intended for you to have access to a demo they would provide one - I don't get to sit through half a movie before deciding whether to pay for the ticket, just because I think I should be able to.

If you have reason to believe it won't work on your PC then don't buy it.

If you buy it and it blatantly doesn't work as advertised then you are entitled to a refund - presumably consumers have statutory rights in the US?  If a store (online or off) does fuck you over by misrepresenting a product and then flat out refuses you a refund, don't go back to that store a week later and buy something else. 

When I pirate a game, I test it then I BUY IT!!!!!  Support PC GAMES BUY THEM IF THEY ARE GOOD.  And remember there is always someone watching you so be safe and don't let Warner Bros. get ya.

I see no issue with it, but i might be tempting to not buy the game after.

its okay, because your not gonna play the full game righht?

i would say yes it is wrong. i think that developers should come out with more demos for a game. i don't pirate because my internet is really slow so it will take all day to download something. i usually look at system requirement lab to see if my computer is good at it. i think that developers should make sure their game is well optimized before they release it. i have crysis then sometime this year they had crysis wars free weekend. i noticed that crysis warhead was a lot better then crysis. it shows that games should be more optimized then not at all.