The GTX 500/HD 6000 Series Discussion Thread

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#1 Edited by Geno (6477 posts) -

I'm making this thread so that all current and future discussion of the current generation GTX 500 series and HD 6000 series graphics cards can be discussed in one place. News and leaks can also go here. I will update OP as necessary. 
 
October 21, 2010: AMD Radeon HD 6850 and 6870
November 9, 2010: Nvidia GTX 580 
December 7, 2010: Nvidia GTX 570  
December 15, 2010: AMD Radeon HD 6950 and 6970 
January 25, 2011: Nvidia GTX 560 Ti  
March 8, 2011: AMD Radeon HD 6990
March 15, 2011: Nvidia GTX 550 Ti  
March 22, 2011: Nvidia GTX 590 
Q2 2011: AMD Radeon HD 6750 and 6770 
 
Recent news: 
 
Nvidia dual GPU launching later in March
 
Performance reviews (uses most recent graphics card reviews; however numbers are available and applicable for all cards)
 
Anandtech  
HardwareCanucks
TechPowerUP! 
 
more (looks in video cards section for more reviews from other sites)  
 
State of Current Graphics Cards:
 

*Measurements for value, performance and power efficiency are relative and directly proportional, and use the left axis. Prices shown are based on the most common price for that graphics card, and use the right axis.
    
The following is based purely on performance, with the strongest at the top, weakest at the bottom.
  
 
Extreme

HD 6990  

 

Very High End

HD 5970

GTX 580  

 

High End

GTX 570  

GTX 480   

HD 6970 

GTX 295

HD 4870X2   

HD 6950 2GB


Upper Mid End

HD 6950 1GB

HD 5870

GTX 560 Ti 

GTX 470   

HD 6870

      

Mid End

HD 5850

GTX 285

HD 6850

GTX 460 1GB

GTX 465 

GTX 275 

GTX 280 

GTX 460 768MB 

#2 Posted by BeachThunder (11990 posts) -

This would totally a good time for me to pick up a 200 or 400 series card :o

Online
#3 Posted by OdinsThunder (156 posts) -

I'm waiting on the 6970 to build my new rig :D

#4 Posted by BounceDK (172 posts) -

Not touching an ati/amd card ever again. So many issues with my 5770 that I'm just gonna stick with nvidia from now til the day I die. I'll still use their processors however, they are quite awesome.

#5 Posted by OdinsThunder (156 posts) -

Fuck it, I can't be bothered waiting any longer, might just go with the GTX 580 and get my new rig next week. 

#6 Edited by Geno (6477 posts) -

According to this, the 6970 will "not perform at the same levels" as the GTX 580, but it isn't targeted at the same price point either. The story ended with "You can rest assured however that the upcoming cards from AMD are going to be absolutely stunning".

#7 Posted by Zithe (1045 posts) -

Is there currently a reason, as a gamer, to buy one of these top of the line cards? I'm just using a modest GTX 285 and it handles what I want it to at the moment. What games are asking for this kind of power?

#8 Posted by ch13696 (4582 posts) -
#9 Edited by Geno (6477 posts) -
@Zithe said:

" Is there currently a reason, as a gamer, to buy one of these top of the line cards? I'm just using a modest GTX 285 and it handles what I want it to at the moment. What games are asking for this kind of power? "

Crysis, Metro 2033, Napolean Total War, Cryostasis, Arma II, Stalker games...the list goes on. Most people with anything above a GTX 260 don't need to upgrade for normal gameplay purposes, but there are still plenty of high end games out there that demand as much GPU power as possible at their high settings. It's also about improving minimum framerate performance.  
 
@ch13696: Other sites go much more in-depth. Tested is more of a gadget site than a dedicated computer hardware site. 
#10 Posted by OdinsThunder (156 posts) -

I've ordered my new rig, including the GTX 580. My new motherboard also supports SLI so I can add another GTX 580 later on.

#11 Posted by Geno (6477 posts) -
#12 Posted by Devildoll (886 posts) -
@Geno:  thats going to be interesting to see , i doubt it will be a full 580x2 though , that would just need a ridiculous amount of power , and the heat sink would have to weigh like 10 pounds to handle the TDP.
#13 Posted by Geno (6477 posts) -
@Devildoll said:
" @Geno:  thats going to be interesting to see , i doubt it will be a full 580x2 though , that would just need a ridiculous amount of power , and the heat sink would have to weigh like 10 pounds to handle the TDP. "
Yeah definitely. The thing is, they have to come out with a card that is stronger than both the 6990 and the 5970; that's going to take something between GTX 470 SLI and GTX 480 SLI (in terms of raw performance). Perhaps they'll get it done with GTX 570 SLI slightly downclocked? Either way they'll be pushing the power envelope pretty hard. We'll have to wait and see, but it's fairly clear they're getting as far as they can go with 40nm at this point.
#14 Edited by Devildoll (886 posts) -
#15 Posted by Devildoll (886 posts) -
#16 Edited by Geno (6477 posts) -

Looking at the FLOPs performance, 6TFLOPs is 3x more than the 6870 which seems a bit impossible. Even accounting for the energy savings from not needing extra PCBs, at 300W it would seem limited to about overclocked 6870 Crossfire in terms of performance, which is about 15% faster than a 5970 (overclocked, 20%). Perhaps another measurement would be to compare FLOPs with the HD 5970? The HD 5970 had 4.64 TFLOPs performance, so the 6990's 6 TFLOPs would be 30% more. How that would translate to gaming performance is unknown, but I think the 6990 having ~+20-30% perf over the 5970 is a pretty reasonable estimate.
 
I'm glad they finally bumped up the VRAM to 2GB, it was about time. Hopefully by this time next year 2GB will be standard. 

#17 Edited by Devildoll (886 posts) -
@Geno:  6990 is the double gpu card.
 
5770 is capable of  1,3 TFLOP
5870 is capable of 2,7 TFLOP 
5970 is capable of 4,64 TFLOP ( would be capable of 2x2,7 (5,4) TFLOP if clocked to 5870 speeds ) 
 
see the ratio there? , the double gpu card has more than 3x the TFLOP's of the mainstream card.
 
6870 has 1120 shaderprocessors .
according to that info the 6990 would have 3840 streamprocessors . that huge difference in firepower should be able to account for 3x TFLOP performance 
also note that barts modified compared to cypress, but cayman takes it even further.
 
here's a couple of recently leaked shots of a cayman/antilles presentation , showing some of the new stuff.
 
 
 
 
         
 

 

 
it all fits pretty okay with how the 5000 series are built up.
  the top mainstream card (5770) has 800 sp's , the top high performance card (5870) has twice that , 1600 , and the dual gpu card (5970) has 2x1600. 
  1920 shaders is pretty close to double 1120 which the 6870 has , and double that for the 6990 to get up to the total of 3840 sp's.
 
but yeah , it will be pretty impressive if they succeed with this while still being on the same manufacturing tech and still keeping the power-consumption in check.
#18 Posted by Geno (6477 posts) -
@Devildoll: 3x 6870 (400-450W) doesn't really fit the power profile though, and would represent a nearly 70% perf difference to the 5970 - too large a leap to be made on a mature hardware node. 
 
Looking at just the SPs doesn't really tell the whole story since the architecture is slightly different from both the 5000 and 6800 series, and the clocks are so far unknown. 
 
What is known however is that the 6970 won't be in the same performance bracket as GTX 580 but will still be AMD's leading single GPU card (so stronger than the 6870, not as strong as the GTX 580). What this means to me is performance will be around GTX 480 levels, at about 180-200W (it will definitely use more than the 6870, but will probably remain power-efficient enough to stay around the 200W mark like all other top performing AMD cards). Two of them would then be equivalent to GTX 480 SLI levels, but downclocked slightly to keep it within power constraints similar to how the 5970 was 5870CF downclocked to 5850CF levels. If we take that to be true, and with around a 10% downclock, then a ~25% increase in performance over 5970 can be expected.
#19 Posted by Geno (6477 posts) -

This is kind of a random vid but I thought I'd post it anyway, GTX 580 Quad SLI:  
 

#20 Edited by Devildoll (886 posts) -
@Geno:  25 % over 5970's TFLOP capabilites is like 5,8  TFLOPS , so 6 is pretty close to your estimate  , if it translates directly into gaming performance. for 6990
 
and yeah theres more difference than just the number of sp's here , the sp's themselves are different.
 
cayman has 2 render engines instead of barts's 1  , apparrently this is going to provide 3x to 4x tessellation performance compared to cypress.
new architecture , that is as powerful as barts but at 10% less real-estate area
can apparently process twice as many polygons per clock as the 5800's
  how all that impacts performance is ofc another question
 
as of now its pretty unrealistic to think the 6970 is going to be faster than the GTX 580 though , ill agree on that.
 
also , its nuts how ye olde crysis wants more than 1,5 GB vram :P
#21 Posted by Geno (6477 posts) -
@Devildoll said:
 also , its nuts how ye olde crysis wants more than 1,5 GB vram :P "
Yeah, it is. I dream of the day a single GPU can get a solid 60fps in that game >.>
#22 Posted by Geno (6477 posts) -
#23 Edited by Devildoll (886 posts) -

and some pictures of 570.
 
release day tomorrow  (today in my case)

#24 Posted by Geno (6477 posts) -

First official review of GTX 570 is out, and tentative pricing seems to be $350-$375 USD. Performance looks to be exactly in-line with GTX 480.

#25 Posted by Nomin (977 posts) -

There will be no PC games that take advantage of these advanced platforms, because most of the PC titles are pos console port popamole shit.  
Wait, let me redress that, unless you play badly optimized Russian games or can opt for 3 screens (2 for Nvidia because those $%#@s can't make a card to support more than 2 without SLI)

#26 Posted by Geno (6477 posts) -
@Nomin said:
" There will be no PC games that take advantage of these advanced platforms, because most of the PC titles are pos console port popamole shit.  Wait, let me redress that, unless you play badly optimized Russian games or can opt for 3 screens (2 for Nvidia because those $%#@s can't make a card to support more than 2 without SLI) "
Simply not true. PCs run games at much higher image quality settings which correspondingly involve much higher hardware demands. Even mainstream games like Just Cause 2 are very demanding at highest settings. Consoles have nothing to do with it. 
#27 Posted by BUCK3TM4N (549 posts) -

i want a 6970 for christmas hopefully its an awesome card

#28 Edited by Geno (6477 posts) -

Latest leaks: 
 





From this and other info circulating around the enthusiast forums it would appear that 6970 will slightly underperform GTX 580 but also be less expensive (10% underperformance, but $400-$450) 
 
The 6950 looks like it will perform between the HD 6870 and GTX 570, priced at around $300.  
 
For the 3Dmark 11 numbers, as a point of reference GTX 580 gets around 6100 at the performance preset and GTX 570 gets about 5400 at the performance preset. Though, it's pretty much guaranteed that the 6970 will outperform GTX 570 even though the 3Dmark score is lower.  
 
The most exciting thing to come out of these leaks is the Unigine performance - it implies massively improved tessellation performance with Cayman and AMD may finally be able to compete with Nvidia in that area. 
 
Release date of cards has changed from Dec. 13 to Dec. 15. 
#29 Posted by sodiumCyclops (2644 posts) -

Meh, I really lost focus on GPUs since the GTX2xx series. I'm more than happy with consoles for now until I see a major need for an upgrade.

#30 Edited by Devildoll (886 posts) -
@Geno:   that last image is fake.    ->   http://i55.tinypic.com/swwi1d.jpg 
 
the abrupt "50 for additional.." at the lower right corner gives it away for instance.
 
and the other two..
 
nvidia presentation saying 6970 being "superior"  , in such a nice way , i dont think they would do that honestly.
 
there's alot of rumors going around saying 6970 will have 1536 shaders instead of 1920 that was the amount people were talking about most before. 
 we'll see.
#31 Edited by Geno (6477 posts) -
@Devildoll: Ah I see.  
 
This new article however comes in from benchmarkreviews.com, which is very reputable so the chances of the info in here being wrong are slim.  
 
Based on Catalyst driver 8.790.6.2000 (8.79.6.2 RC2) given to press, the Radeon HD 6970 delivers approximately the same performance as NVIDIA's GeForce GTX 570. Recently launched at the $350 price point, the GeForce GTX 570 and Radeon HD 6970 go back and forth between tests but at no point does the Radeon HD 6970 ever approach GeForce GTX 580 performance levels.     
 
From all the information so far, it would appear that the 6970 is in between GTX 570 and 580, but closer to 570. 
 
Edit: Here's some more 3Dmark scores. Take from it what you will.  
 
All the 3Dmark scores so far seem to be lower than the GTX 570, but performance in games should be in line or slightly above it. I'm guessing it's just a driver issue. 
#32 Edited by Devildoll (886 posts) -
@Geno:   
Written by Olin Coles   
Wednesday, 15 December 2010
 
:P article from the future.
 
 
also , if you want to look at more stuff from the guy whos 3dmark score that is .
 
check this thread out , 
http://www.hardwareluxx.de/community/15863940-post170.html 
 
its a german dude (ducati750ss)  who apparently has a 6970.
 wierd stuff going on , like 3dmark 11 performance score being lower than GTX 480 while extreme score is better .
 
also , there are some speculations that the card is actually a 6950 , judging from the device id reporded by gpu-z .
 
going to be an interesting week :D
 
also , some prices have started to trickle out here is sweden, 4600 Kr for the 6970.
compared to ~3200 Kr for a GTX 570, if those prices are accurate , it competing at 570 levels of performance is ridiculous
#33 Edited by Geno (6477 posts) -
#34 Posted by Geno (6477 posts) -
First review is out. Not a very good one (and you'll need to Google Translate it from Russian), but still a review nonetheless. 6950 appears to be around 5-10% weaker than GTX 570 while 6970 is about 5-10% stronger. More and better reviews will be coming out in the morning (in the western hemisphere), as usual.  
 
6950 $300 at Newegg 
6970 $370 at Newegg. 
 
So it's not leading edge performance, but decent value and efficiency. Fairly in-line with AMD's product methodology. 
#35 Posted by OdinsThunder (156 posts) -

It's good to see that my GTX 580 remains the top dog. I'll wait a while now for a price drop and then pick up another one, and run them SLi. Sweet!!!
#36 Posted by Geno (6477 posts) -
@OdinsThunder said:
" It's good to see that my GTX 580 remains the top dog. I'll wait a while now for a price drop and then pick up another one, and run them SLi. Sweet!!! "
Nice, I'm hoping to get a setup along those lines too at some point next year.  
 
The 6970 is kind of a disappointment in my eyes. AMD's front-runner single GPU barely more powerful (not even as powerful in some reviews) as Nvidia's 2nd place GPU? :/  
 
I think they were making the 6970 as an attack on the GTX 480, but Nv kind of came out of nowhere with the GTX 580 and AMD just wasn't ready for it.  
 
Luckily, the 6950 is decent value at the high end. 
#37 Posted by Praab_NZ (281 posts) -

The 6970 isnt what I expected from AMD, but its definitely at the right price. Waiting for 28nm now... 
580 is impressive but priced completely wrong in classic nvidia style, if it pulls some good frames I'm still looking forward to the 6990.

#38 Posted by Devildoll (886 posts) -

some stuff about the 6900's are great , like the improved tesselation and the xfire scaling compared to 5800 series.
 
but some stuff is wierd , ive seen like cod 4 performance where 5870 does better than the 6970 .
 
and about people having hopes of it beating the 580 GTX .
that would be a pretty huge thing since the actual cayman chip is 389 mm2 , compared to GF110's 520-550 mm2's.
but thats probably where antilles comes in.

#39 Posted by Geno (6477 posts) -
@Devildoll said:
" some stuff about the 6900's are great , like the improved tesselation and the xfire scaling compared to 5800 series.  but some stuff is wierd , ive seen like cod 4 performance where 5870 does better than the 6970 .  and about people having hopes of it beating the 580 GTX . that would be a pretty huge thing since the actual cayman chip is 389 mm2 , compared to GF110's 520-550 mm2's. but thats probably where antilles comes in. "
The people that were heralding Cayman as the next R300 were pretty much all fanboys. Nvidia's strategy is always to achieve the highest GPU performance, AMD's is always to provide the best value and efficiency. There are merits to both strategies.  
 
Antilles will be fairly strong, probably around 6950 Crossfire performance, but if I had to guess I'd say the GTX 595 (or whatever Nvidia's dual GPU will be called) will beat it performance-wise. 
#40 Posted by Geno (6477 posts) -
@Devildoll said:
" y@Geno:  i wonder how much nvidia can squeeze out without tipping over the 300 watt border , my guess is ther wont be an official double gpu nvidia card , but someone like galaxy might make one on their own , kinda like the asus ares.   we didnt see an official dual card for the GF100 , GF110 is a refined but i still think they would have to cut it down quite a lot in order to be able to place two on the same pcb. "
They're releasing GF114 soon, so I'm guessing they'll work something out (I agree that it would very difficult if not impossible to do an effective dual GPU on GF110). Nvidia dual GPU has pretty much been confirmed already. Technically speaking they can also go a bit over 300W (which is what the HD 4870X2 did) but it's not very desirable. 
#41 Posted by Devildoll (886 posts) -
@Geno:  i wonder how much nvidia can squeeze out without tipping over the 300 watt border , my guess is there wont be an official double gpu nvidia card , but someone like galaxy might make one on their own , kinda like the asus ares. 
 
we didnt see an official dual card for the GF100 , GF110 is a refined but i still think they would have to cut it down quite a lot in order to be able to place two on the same pcb. 
#42 Posted by sins_of_mosin (1556 posts) -

Tomshardware has reviews for the 6950 and 6970.  Don't appear anyone is impressed and hell, looks like GTX 460's in SLI is a better choice then the new AMD cards. 
 
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/radeon-hd-6970-radeon-hd-6950-cayman,2818.html
      
#43 Posted by OdinsThunder (156 posts) -
@Geno said:
" @OdinsThunder said:
" It's good to see that my GTX 580 remains the top dog. I'll wait a while now for a price drop and then pick up another one, and run them SLi. Sweet!!! "
Nice, I'm hoping to get a setup along those lines too at some point next year.   The 6970 is kind of a disappointment in my eyes. AMD's front-runner single GPU barely more powerful (not even as powerful in some reviews) as Nvidia's 2nd place GPU? :/   I think they were making the 6970 as an attack on the GTX 480, but Nv kind of came out of nowhere with the GTX 580 and AMD just wasn't ready for it.   Luckily, the 6950 is decent value at the high end.  "

I suppose AMD are apply the same methodology as their CPU pricing-perforamance ratio. Not a bad thing IMO.
#44 Edited by Devildoll (886 posts) -
#45 Posted by Geno (6477 posts) -

So some specs are floating around for GTX 560: 384SP, 875Mhz core.  
 
GTX 580 is about 17% faster than GTX 480, and the math matches up exactly.  
 
580 = 512*772 
480 = 480*700  
 
[580]/[480] = 1.176
 
 
So if we compare GTX 460 with 560: 
 
560 = 384*875 
460 = 336*675 
 
[560]/[460] = 1.481 
 
A whopping 48 percent sounds very nice, and would put its performance around HD 6950, perhaps slightly weaker. The GTX 460 had huge overclocking headroom so I'm guessing Nvidia leveraged some of this with GF114. We'll have to wait and see obviously but it doesn't seem outside the realm of possibility. 

#46 Edited by Devildoll (886 posts) -

i dont know if my math is right , but i think 148% of a GTX 460 is above 570 performance in some cases.
 
im looking at the overall performance graph on TPU 
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/ASUS/GeForce_GTX_570/27.html 
 
im not really that good with % , but if im doing it right , then a 460 GTX is 69% of a GTX 570 , and the other way around a GTX 570 is 144% of a GTX 460. 
 
if we only look at the highest resolution the 570 is 169% of a 460 however.

#47 Edited by Geno (6477 posts) -

New reports are saying 825 Core, 30% faster than GTX 460.  
 
Release date ~Jan 19-20, 2011. 
 
Pricing unknown, but based on the current market it's probably looking to replace GTX 470 or compete with HD 6950, so probably around $250-280 is my rough guess. 

#48 Edited by Geno (6477 posts) -
GTX 590 (?) pictured. 
 
Quote is: "  An upcoming card from EVGA... NVIDIA 3D Surround off a single card? YES!" 
 
Since Nvidia 3D Surround requires two GPUs, this signals a dual GPU card. EVGA isn't known for making its own custom dual GPU SKUs, so this all but confirms that it's the official upcoming Nvidia dual GPU.  
 
Edit: looks like I was wrong, it is a custom SKU from EVGA. Will be something along the lines of GTX 570 SLI. 
#49 Posted by Devildoll (886 posts) -

thats pretty cool , couple of sites reporting GTX 560 to be released on the 25th btw.

#50 Edited by Geno (6477 posts) -
@Devildoll: Some reports seem to suggest between HD 6870 and HD 6950 in performance for the GTX 560. My guess is the pricing will be around $250-$270 then. 

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