Story Speculation (Spoilers)

#1 Edited by FluxWaveZ (19347 posts) -

So with the official announcement of P4UUSH, people have naturally begun speculating about where the plot my be taken and I thought it'd be a good idea to create a thread and give a proper venue for people to talk about their ideas/theories about what might happen in the story based on everything that's happened in the series until now.

Shadow Operatives

First step, listing the unanswered questions from Persona 4 Arena:

  • Who is the mysterious girl the anti-Shadow weapons (Labrys and Aigis) are based on?
  • Who is the “Eerie Voice” (the one who hacks into Labrys)?
  • Who is the “Malevolent Entity” (the one who impersonates the cast’s Shadows)?
  • Who are the remaining members of the Shadow Operatives (other than Mitsuru, Akihiko and Aigis)?
  • What does Elizabeth gaining the Wild Card entail?

Second step, listing currently known story beats of the sequel:

  • Takes place several days after Persona 4 Arena.
  • Both SEES and the Investigation Team are trying to investigate who was behind the events of P4A when the Midnight Channel starts broadcasting again.
  • Dictator Teddie returns and announces a new tournament: the "P-1 Climax."
  • Along with the announcement, space-time starts to warp around Inaba. People start to vanish and a mysterious red fog starts to envelop the area.
  • Inaba in the real world starts to resemble the world inside the television, which means the action takes place in the real world.
  • Mitsuru and "others" are depicted as crucified on the Midnight Channel.
  • The Investigation Team and the Shadow Operative Rescue Unit (Yukari being asked urgently to rescue Mitsuru on the set of her TV show, for example) resolve to save the crucified ones as well as resolve this whole mess, in which the fate of the world hangs in the balance.
  • The "Shadow army" stands in the way of the good guys.

Third step, potential questions that could be asked knowing what we currently know:

Sho Minazuki

Sho Minazuki
Deidara

The new character whom we know nothing of except for the fact that he has a Yasogami outfit around his waist. Why does he have the Yasogami outfit? Is he friend or foe? Could he be the one who kidnapped Labrys in Persona 4 Arena and threw her into the television? Is he cooperating with the "Malevolent Entity"? Is he the Malevolent Entity itself?

Two funny theories I've seen are the following and involve the space-time warp stuff:

That he is a younger Deidara, who was the weapon shop salesman in Persona 4.

And that he resembles Yu Narukami (he does a bit), so there might be a connection there.

Space-time Warping

Inside Tartarus
Things going to hell

What is the result of the fact that space-time is apparently breaking down in P4A2's scenario? Could it lead to crazy cameos from past games, like Persona 2 characters or Makoto Yuki (Persona 3 protagonist)? Tartarus has apparently appeared again and has taken the place of Yasogami. Is that related to whatever's happening to space-time?

Other Questions

  • Why are Persona users, particularly Mitsuru, getting crucified?
  • What's the relevance of having another tournament and why would someone disguise themselves as Teddie again?
  • Are the fake Shadows a result of Nyarlathotep like they were in Persona 2 and maybe Persona 4 Arena?
  • What is the red mist that is enveloping Inaba? Why are people disappearing?
  • Who kidnapped Fuuka?

The space-time warping stuff makes me think of the scenario in the very first Persona game as well as the events of The Answer in Persona 3. In general, I like the initial setting of P4A2 for now more than that of P4A, which was essentially a generic tournament with friends being forced to fight each other.

Now, there will be actual foes with the Shadows and potential other characters (Sho might be one of them) and the structure of the story is more open than taking place within a school inside the Midnight Channel. The fact that this presumably takes place in the real world across Inaba, hopefully with no invisible walls, makes things more interesting.

#2 Posted by IrrelevantJohn (1072 posts) -

Why is Mitsuru getting crucified? Here's why:

Online
#3 Posted by BIGJEFFREY (5055 posts) -

All this crucifixion stuff is getting me pumped. Also Fuuka is kidnapped?

#4 Posted by YI_Orange (1148 posts) -

Don't forget Edogawa. It was decided that that scientist was Edogawa, right?

#5 Posted by FluxWaveZ (19347 posts) -

All this crucifixion stuff is getting me pumped. Also Fuuka is kidnapped?

In Pepsiman's English subbed trailer, that's what's implied.

Don't forget Edogawa. It was decided that that scientist was Edogawa, right?

They did bear a resemblance, but I never thought it was a situation as analogous as the Malevolent Entity with Nyarlathotep. I feel that Labrys' story, aside from the little girl she was based on, has been wrapped up so I'm not sure that the scientists' identities will be relevant.

#6 Posted by Zeik (2460 posts) -

Don't forget Edogawa. It was decided that that scientist was Edogawa, right?

Since when? I heard people throw that theory around, but I always thought they were grasping at straws. There was very little to link them other than some vague similarities.

#7 Posted by Hailinel (24877 posts) -

There are so many ways that this could go, but here are my initial thoughts:

  • This second tournament is basically a result of Malevolent Entity and Eerie Voice saying "Fuck this" after their plan gets stymied in the first game and they pull out all the stops. So they just take their original plan and crank it to eleven.
  • Labrys spent all of the first game as the victim. However the story in the second is resolved, she'll play a big part in it.
  • The Shadow characters are likely imposters, just like "Shadow" Mitsuru, Akihiko, Aigis and Naoto were in the first game.
  • On the other hand, the Persona 3 characters in particular never had to really face "themselves" as the Persona 4 characters did (i.e.: They never confronted their own Shadows). Maybe Malevolent Whats-its-bucket crucifies Mitsuru as part of a plan to shake her confidence and drive the Shadow out? (That's admittedly a stretch there, I think, but who knows.)
  • Sho may appear due to the space-time shenanigans in Inaba and have a directly relationship to old man Daidara of some sort. Possibly a younger Daidara. I don't think he's a Persona 5 character.
  • Persona 3's main character will still not be in the game.
#8 Posted by Make_Me_Mad (3102 posts) -

Mostly I just wonder how long the story will ignore P4 Golden. I mean, you'd think Marie would have something to say about Inaba getting wrecked...

And by the same token, mysterious bright-red fog filling the town? I wonder if this is somehow connected to/in opposition with the Velvet Room.

#9 Edited by Hailinel (24877 posts) -

Mostly I just wonder how long the story will ignore P4 Golden. I mean, you'd think Marie would have something to say about Inaba getting wrecked...

And by the same token, mysterious bright-red fog filling the town? I wonder if this is somehow connected to/in opposition with the Velvet Room.

I just wonder how their going to handle Igor's presence or lack thereof. Do the same thing they did in Arena and only have Margaret appear in the Velvet Room?

#10 Posted by YI_Orange (1148 posts) -

@zeik: @fluxwavez: I mostly just like the idea that Edogawa is more than just an exposition dump.

Mostly I just wonder how long the story will ignore P4 Golden. I mean, you'd think Marie would have something to say about Inaba getting wrecked...

And by the same token, mysterious bright-red fog filling the town? I wonder if this is somehow connected to/in opposition with the Velvet Room.

Is P4G considered canon? Is Marie real?

#11 Posted by Make_Me_Mad (3102 posts) -

@hailinel: My running theory is that maybe Nyarlathotep and his Mysterious Entity buddy decided to actively gun for The Velvet Room. Take out the support for the protagonists. Igor... might not be around anymore.

I mean, with Igor's VA gone, I always thought it'd be interesting to see how they handled The Velvet Room in the future. Having one of the attendants take over as the 'New' Igor would be a choice, but you'd have to explain why Igor was gone when he was seemingly timeless before. An enemy that actually attacked, and maybe succeeded in getting rid of Igor, is a crazy idea.

If Nyarlathotep did something to Igor, I'm gonna punch him so hard. So hard.

#12 Edited by Hailinel (24877 posts) -

@zeik: @fluxwavez: I mostly just like the idea that Edogawa is more than just an exposition dump.

@make_me_mad said:

Mostly I just wonder how long the story will ignore P4 Golden. I mean, you'd think Marie would have something to say about Inaba getting wrecked...

And by the same token, mysterious bright-red fog filling the town? I wonder if this is somehow connected to/in opposition with the Velvet Room.

Is P4G considered canon? Is Marie real?

Seeing as how P4A doesn't acknowledge Marie at all, I doubt it. Marie probably exists in that same realm as the female protagonist of Persona 3 Portable. Not official canon as far as the "true" storyline is concerned.

#13 Edited by JZ (2125 posts) -

@hailinel: p4 arena is actually mentioned in the new true ending of p4 golden.

#14 Posted by FluxWaveZ (19347 posts) -

I have a feeling Marie will appear in P4A2 in some form.

#15 Posted by BIGJEFFREY (5055 posts) -

@jz: Is the P4G true ending cannon? I thought it was not.

#16 Edited by FluxWaveZ (19347 posts) -

@bigjeffrey: Talking canon is meaningless until there's something that either supports or contradicts past/future events. It's not been said either way and unless the P4G epilogue is referenced in P4A2, I guess we won't know.

#17 Posted by JZ (2125 posts) -

@fluxwavez: the p4g true ending happens one year after the events of p4. P4 arena happens two months after the end of p4. P4u happens a day or two after p4a.

#18 Edited by FluxWaveZ (19347 posts) -

@jz said:

@fluxwavez: the p4g true ending happens one year after the events of p4. P4 arena happens two months after the end of p4. P4u happens a day or two after p4a.

Yes... so?

#19 Posted by JZ (2125 posts) -

@fluxwavez: the P4G epilogue can't be referenced in P4A2, because it won't happen for 10 more months.

#20 Edited by FluxWaveZ (19347 posts) -

@jz: I wasn't talking about whether it could or could not, I was talking about the relevance of "canon" if storylines are not directly related to each other.

#21 Posted by Mcfart (1626 posts) -

@hailinel: My running theory is that maybe Nyarlathotep and his Mysterious Entity buddy decided to actively gun for The Velvet Room. Take out the support for the protagonists. Igor... might not be around anymore.

I mean, with Igor's VA gone, I always thought it'd be interesting to see how they handled The Velvet Room in the future. Having one of the attendants take over as the 'New' Igor would be a choice, but you'd have to explain why Igor was gone when he was seemingly timeless before. An enemy that actually attacked, and maybe succeeded in getting rid of Igor, is a crazy idea.

If Nyarlathotep did something to Igor, I'm gonna punch him so hard. So hard.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

#22 Posted by JZ (2125 posts) -

P4a and p4u are the ac brotherhood and ac revelations of the persona games.

#24 Posted by Hunter5024 (5691 posts) -

Wait Yukari is on a tv show? Is it Phoenix Ranger Featherman R?

#25 Posted by FluxWaveZ (19347 posts) -

Wait Yukari is on a tv show? Is it Phoenix Ranger Featherman R?

Yukari's story:

Along with Mitsuru and Akihiko, one of the members of the Specialized Extracurricular Execution Squad who saved the world in Persona 3. Graduating from Gekkoukan High and continuing into college, Yukari was working as a female college student model, but, unexpectedly, chosen for her skill with the bow, she gets the part of Pink in Phoenix Ranger Featherman Victory! One day however, an actual helicopter not part of the filming appears on the set. The Kirijo family maid Kikuno emerges from the copter and informs Yukari of Mitsuru’s dire status. Taking no time to even change costumes, Yukari heads to Yasoinaba…

#27 Posted by Hunter5024 (5691 posts) -
#28 Posted by Hailinel (24877 posts) -
#29 Posted by _Zombie_ (1462 posts) -

@hailinel: My running theory is that maybe Nyarlathotep and his Mysterious Entity buddy decided to actively gun for The Velvet Room. Take out the support for the protagonists. Igor... might not be around anymore.

I mean, with Igor's VA gone, I always thought it'd be interesting to see how they handled The Velvet Room in the future. Having one of the attendants take over as the 'New' Igor would be a choice, but you'd have to explain why Igor was gone when he was seemingly timeless before. An enemy that actually attacked, and maybe succeeded in getting rid of Igor, is a crazy idea.

If Nyarlathotep did something to Igor, I'm gonna punch him so hard. So hard.

Well, taking into account that The Velvet Room itself is shaped by the occupant's mind, it's possible that the attendants and Igor are the same. They could just write it off as the P5 protagonist simply not materializing Igor. Unless it's explicitly stated somewhere that Igor is a constant linked with the Room itself.

#30 Posted by Mr_Ordinal (3 posts) -

@yi_orange: Since she will appear on Persona Q, then maybe? We shall see...cause i have a hunch that we're going to see her in P4U.

#31 Posted by FluxWaveZ (19347 posts) -

Some story details (POTENTIAL SPOILERS BELOW):

Persona General posted some bullet points made on 2ch about arcade mode concerning Sho, Persona Sho, and Adachi. Anons translated and this is what they say.

Minazuki's bullet points:

His puns are reminiscent of Ikutsuki

A Plume of Dusk can be sensed from him

When defeated by Teddie, he mentions "drawing out (Teddie's) hometown"

When defeated by Sanada, he says "If it's your friends, they're coming, thanks to you guys!!"

Often mentions "him"

He appears to be jealous of those who possess Personas

The last boss for Yu, Naoto, Teddie, Aigis, Junpei and Sanada.

Persona Sho's bullet points:

Persona is Tsukiyomi

A Plume of Dusk can be sensed from him

Says to Labrys "You and I are the same, that's why I chose you".

His objective is to "remake the world"?

"What that child desires isn't revenge."

The last boss of Hanamura, Mitsuru and Labrys.

Adachi's bullet points:

He appears in Yu's, Sanada's and Yukari's scenarios.

Minazuki and Adachi have nothing to do with one another (They're aware of each other but they're not in cahoots)

When asked if he's a fake, he replies that he's the real deal.

"If you spend too much fighting, you might not be able to return things to normal"; he appears to understand the truth of the situation.

He appears to have business at the top of the tower.

Sanada and Yukari have no idea who he is.

Labrys: "I won… I won! But, that reading… Is that a Plume of Dusk? No way… You’re definitely human… What the…?"

Sho: "Heh Heh Heh… That is correct. I am just like you. That is why I chose you. But it seems you were nothing but a hindrance in the end. Of course, it does not matter… It is already too late."

Sho: "There is nothing you can do anymore, it can’t be undone… The world will now change!!"

#32 Posted by ViciousBearMauling (1103 posts) -

Some story details (POTENTIAL SPOILERS BELOW):

Persona General posted some bullet points made on 2ch about arcade mode concerning Sho, Persona Sho, and Adachi. Anons translated and this is what they say.

Persona Sho's bullet points:

Persona is Tsukiyomi

Tsukuyomi was the second of the "three noble children" born when Izanagi was cleansing himself of his sins after escaping the underworld and his enraged dead wife, Izanami. Tsukuyomi was born when he washed out of Izanagi's right eye.

Direct connection with Narukami?

#33 Edited by Superkenon (1438 posts) -

@viciousbearmauling said:

Tsukuyomi was the second of the "three noble children" born when Izanagi was cleansing himself of his sins after escaping the underworld and his enraged dead wife, Izanami. Tsukuyomi was born when he washed out of Izanagi's right eye.

Direct connection with Narukami?

But the other two "children" are Susano-o and Amaterasu (Yosuke and Yukiko's personas), and that never really seemed to mean anything significant before.

Could easily just be using Tsukuyomi because it's an important-sounding Persona, and nothing more. It'd be cool if they turned this into some crazy kind of connection, though.

#34 Posted by Mr_Ordinal (3 posts) -

The red fog distort space and time, correct? Well, allow me to voice my speculations.

WARNING Persona 3 & 4 & 4A SPOILERS BELOW:

I believe the fog distorts space and time according thoughts and memories of the Investigation Team and the Shadow Operatives.

Since Sho's motives are to bring "Teddie's hometown" (The world inside the TV) and due to the nature of the TV world, which change according to the minds and thoughts of the person inside it, showing it what that person wants to see to the sub-conscious level, One could speculate that the Tartarus on Yasogami, the image of crucified ex-SEES members shown on the Midnight Channel, we're actually a recreation of Mitsuru's, Aigis's and Akihiko's minds, thoughts or memories scanned by possibly the Malevolent Entity when they went inside the TV before to rescue (retrieve) Labrys. which would explain why only them and no other ex-SEES members appeared on the Midnight Channel.

If this rings true then there is a possibility that the "Adachi" that we saw was a "past image" recreated by the fog OR that he was somehow transported there due to the powers of the fog and the Midnight Channel. Though the possibility that this is used by the Malevolent Entity so that it can use his very powerful shadow as a pawn, exist.

This is just an extra thought and speculation, (no one asked, I know) but think for a while why Adachi was never attacked by shadows in P4, and why he also has a Persona. This is probably he was aware of his shadow and accepts it, but unlike the others he was consumed by his shadow (golden eyes) because he had no resolve to change. (Because he then "becomes" a shadow, the other shadows shows no hostility towards him) This is also why he has a corrupted Persona. Due to the instability this causes on his psyche (as i read on wikipedia), me thinks this is why the process of him summoning his Persona is quite painful. (clutching head in pain)

I'm just voicing my opinions here while practicing my typing and english, think of me as you'd like.

I am clueless on how i use the things above my paragraphs right now. Can anyone help this noob?

#35 Posted by Mr_Ordinal (3 posts) -

Are the fake Shadows a result of Nyarlathotep like they were in Persona 2 and maybe Persona 4 Arena?

WARNING! PERSONA 2 & 3 FES & 4 Arena SPOILERS BELOW

PURE SPECULATION

Probable. In Persona 2 Nyarlathotep (years before Persona 3) is seen having the power to summon and control shadows (being the personification of humanity's dark thoughts one could say that he is a king over shadows).

But while he seems to also has a power to give the shadows of Persona-users a Reverse version of their Personas in Persona 2, it can be argued if he even this kind of power in the first place.

Think first why the shadows in P4 Arena can use Persona.

In theory and lore in P3&4 a shadow isn't supposed to be able to use a Persona in the first place. This is because a Persona exist to shield and cover up the ego, and the "real" you that you don't want others to see (Shadows included, this is why Persona's and Shadows are one and the same, in my theory). As a part of the psyche they're "hollow", as lack an ego and emotions of their own which is necessary to posses a Persona. So, why?

Remember Shadow Labrys? Remember how she summons Asterius (the minotaur thing)?

Asterius isn't a Persona, but rather an "extension" of Shadow Labrys. So if the same thing can be applied to the Shadow characters, one could say that the "Personas" that they summon in the first place are merely "extensions"(it's a matter of perception).

If this is true then Nyarlathotep's power isn't to give Persona's to shadows, but to create a "simulacra" to "emulate" a persons shadow.me thinks.

MORE THINGS BELOW (wow i'm enjoying this too much! sorry) BEWARE! (theyre just rants and I sound crazy)

This makes them different from Metis. Metis IS DEFINITELY NOT (JUST) A SHADOW, this is proved by her ability to use a Persona.

She IS a byproduct of Aigis's psyche created due to the power on the abyss of time and her wish to be a machine again. But her nature is a mystery to me.

Is Metis Aigis's ego that she wished away? If so, then she is a part of Aigis's ego, being an ego herself made her able to use a Persona.

But what if Metis is a shadow? What the Persona-series hasn't shown us yet is that shadows are not always evil, they are just the opposites of ourselves. Because one tends to reject or remain ignorant of the least desirable aspects of one's personality, the shadow is largely negative.There are, however, positive aspects which may also remain hidden in one's shadow(*cough*wikipedia*cough*).

My point is (I know, Finally) that i think that if Metis is a Shadow, the ego and emotions that she borrowed from Aigis (and quite possibly of her Persona ability, making room for the wild card) may have been sufficiently strong enough to give Metis her own consciousness. So unlike Teddie initially, she wasn't hollow by default.

If this is true then Teddie could be a Shadow of someone in the real world Inaba, someone that denies his/her own ego or possibly something positive about themselves...who could that person be?

#36 Edited by FluxWaveZ (19347 posts) -

More story details:

  • Sho has two personalities, “Sho Minazuki” and “SHO MINAZUKI” (The caps are very fitting, because all-caps/Katakana-Sho is a real ham, I tell ya.)

    None of the characters I played so far have encountered more than one side of Sho; Teddie, Junpei and Yu encounter Sho Minazuki. Labrys and Yukari encounter SHO MINAZUKI.

    The normal Sho is loud, bratty, has a horrible sense of pun-related humor that not even Teddie can laugh about and enjoys putting people down. Even Junpei refers to him as “a brat”.

    He is a loner and hates the concept of “friendship”, believing it to be something only weak people rely on.

    His only ally is someone Sho keeps refering to as “him”. It is HIGHLY likely that this “him” is SHO MINAZUKI/The Malevolent Entity.

    SHO MINAZUKI apparently promised Sho that he’d be invincibly strong if he coorperated with him. Additionally, he “taught” him to not believe in things like “bonds” or “friendship” and that he’s “strongest on his own”.

    Sho has complete information on all the involved Persona Users, including things like Teddie’s true identity as a Shadow or the pasts of the Shadow OPs/SEES members.

    Sho also displays a bad case of what I’d dub “Takaya&Adachi Syndrome”: He believes the human world to be worthless and that it needs to be changed or vanquished entirely. He also does not understand why Teddie would want to be like a human.

    He also has an incredible hatred to the idea of loosing and will throw a tantrum if you unexpectedly defeat him. He especially freaks out when Junpei makes it to the top of the tower first, which wasn’t planned.

    According to Labrys (who has the ability to cast and break illusions and thus should know best) Sho’s body is that of a human.

    Sho Minazuki himself also seems rather human in his mannerisms, however…

    SHO MINAZUKI is probably *not* human from what I can tell.

    When Labrys encounters “SHO MINAZUKI”, she senses that his soul is stored on a Plume of Dusk, as it would be the case for an Anti Shadow Supression Weapon. SHO confirms this.

    SHO also states that he was the one who kidnapped Labrys in P4U, and that he choose her as his “puppet” due to her soul being stored on a Plume of Dusk, just like his own. He needed to experiment on her somehow.

    It’s highly possible that “SHO MINAZUKI” is not the second personality’s real name. He never speaks or acts through Sho when General Teddie is on-screen, and I personally find it likely that he also the one miming General Teddie this time around.

    Even more likely; since he directly states to have been the one who kidnapped Labrys, there is a 90%+ chance of SHO MINAZUKI actually being the Malevolent Entity as well.

    SHO MINAZUKI’s goal is to “change the world” somehow. Given what we’ve seen, this will either result in The Fall, all humans turning into Shadows or a mixture of both.

    SHO MINAZUKI is the one with the Persona “Tsukuyomi”. Sho Minazuki does not have a Persona himself.

    The state SHO MINAZUKI put Inaba in is explicitely almost entirely the same as the Dark Hour, right down to Yasogami High turning into a Pseudo-Tartarus.

Also, as the Tumblr states, Sho's arcana is indeed the Sun.

@mr_ordinal: You've come up with some pretty good points and guesses.

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