General tips on play

#1 Posted by Fistoh (118 posts) -

I'm basically new to fighting games. I picked up P4A when it was released and played through the story, then never really played it again. I watched a bunch of EVO this year... mainly for Melee, but I dunno why, but I watched pretty much everything. I don't even like Street Fighter or MvC or any of that, don't find them fun, but I digress.

I watched the finals for P4A, and loved every minute of it. It was so fun to watch, and it reminded me that the little I played was pretty fun, as opposed to when I played Street Fighter. So, I decided I'm going to play Chie because... well, Chie, and I decided the first thing I'd do is play through her challenges. So far, I've gotten through 24 of them I believe. I beat Arcade mode on Normal with ease, don't think I lost a round. Went online... and got my ass handed to me on a shiny silver platter, even by people who I could recognize as really bad. I've been playing a lot, but I don't feel like I'm getting any better. I read somewhere that Chie has a strong mix-up game, which I know means she has a strong variety in her attacks, which keep the opponent on their toes. I just feel there are some basic fighting game... things that I'm not grasping. I think my two main problems is that I don't know when to attack and when not to, which on someone like Chie seems very important, and I feel like when I'm playing against AI (who I bumped up to the max difficulty, I generally win, but it's AI so...) I'm far more calm and collected. I feel like I know what I'm doing and can execute that, but in an online match I'm more nervous because I have some deluded notion that I need to win to prove... something to... someone. Things go really fast, and I find that I botch a lot of button executions, and it eventually devolves into something only a little more calculated than button mashing.

Wow, I went off there... what I'm basically asking is, how can I route around these problems I'm having? I feel like the first one is just a matter of experience and playing a lot, I also don't really know any of the characters except Chie, so I guess when I come to know their movesets and style of play I'll be able to adapt my style, and I'll know those things like when to attack and when to stay back. As for the second one, it's always been a problem with me, just nerves. I get really jittery when playing against actual people, and just fuck up everything I try to do. So... yeah, any answers to these questions, along with anything about P4A or fighting games in general that you feel I should know going in would be very much appreciated. Thanks a lot!

#2 Edited by SuperSolidSnake2019 (74 posts) -

I am not very good at fighting games. I can't even do an Ultra or cancel move in Street Fighter 4 although I bought Street Fighter 4, Super Street Fighter 4 AND Super Street Fighter 4 Arcade Edition...and the Street Fighter 4 Tournament Edition Fight Stick.

I button bash and could beat some people by spamming the same move with 'the Russian wrestler' but could never get to a level when I knew what I was doing or learning all the moves. I watched videos and I still couldn't work it out.

I bought Persona Arena a while ago and played about 3 button bashing singleplayer matches then went online and got mauled. Haven't played again although it looks fun.

I have bought most fighting games but I don't have the dedication of being really good at them but watching good players makes you think about trying even if its just a passing thought.

I can only be competitive in some sports games but if you are going to be great at fighters you will need to put hours in and find a few characters and work with them.

#3 Posted by Petiew (1282 posts) -

With Chie you want to knock your opponent down with a sweep and then set up what's referred to as her "oki".

(Numbers in combo notation refer to the direction you want to be pressing with the attack, it's based on a numberpad. So 5 is neutral position, 2 would be down, 236 is Quarter circle forward and so on)

You want to hit with a simple combo like 5AA > 5B > 2B > 2AB. This'll knock your opponent down and allows you to set up Chie's Okizeme. After this you want to hit 5DD, which locks your opponent down and forces them to block. Now that they're blocking you're free to perform a mixup on them.

You want to make your opponent guess against a high/low mixup. So you should jump in, air dash or instant air dash towards them. Then you either hit j.B or j.BB in the air, or instead allow yourself to hit the ground without using an attack and then use 2A to hit them.

If the opponent is crouch blocking you'll hit them with jump B, using BB will hit an opponent that immediately blocks low after blocking your B, while using 2A will hit a standing blocking opponent. If they block your j.B attacks you can still try to go for 2A as Chie is pretty safe. If you score a clean hit continue into another basic combo into a sweep and repeat until they're low life enough for you to pull out a high damage combo and finish them off.

You can also air dash over them, roll to the other side, etc and start pressuring them from there since they'll have to block in the other direction as soon as you reach the other side.

I don't really play Chie at all, so I'm sure other people can explain a lot better. This is just a super basic beginner version.You'll get better by playing more, just react to your opponent and learn when you can punish their moves.

#4 Edited by mwng (891 posts) -

I know it's lame advice, but just keep playing. It might not seem like you're getting better, but you probably are.

Suggest learning a few of the more obvious moves of other characters that you KNOW you can punish, then just watch out for them. Counter with some really simple combos to begin with, or just auto combo until you've got your defense down. You're less likely to mess up a simple combo/punish when nervous, which you'll eventually get over, it took me at least 3 iterations of Blazblue...

Failing that, try and get some people from the forums to practice with. I always seem to get caught out by the end of the stupid Chie auto combo online...

Edit: Might also be helpful to keep some kind of record? I created a series of blogs when I started learning fighting games "properly", so when I did feel like I was getting nowhere, I could check back and remind myself I was actually less shit than when I began.

#5 Posted by Fistoh (118 posts) -

I'd love to practice with people on the forums if they'd be willing, I've just been setting up Player Match rooms with the title "noobs" and playing the guys that come in :P. I'm on PS3 and my tag is MikNuggetz.

Thanks for the simple breakdown of Chie, @petiew, and I'll try learning the other characters some so I'm more familiar with their moves and what I can punish.

#6 Posted by bigjeffrey (4176 posts) -

I'd love to practice with you. but Xbox :[

#7 Edited by Vasta_Narada (428 posts) -

Sadly I'm on 360, otherwise I'd join and help you out (Narukami/Naoto main). I'm planning on making a video tutorial that covers the basic mechanics and terminology of P4A and then perhaps doing some character primers. If there's any questions you want answered, I'll try and answer them when I make the video :)

Edit: I forgot to say that I started similarly to you: jumped right into online head-first and got stomped. Getting better in fighting games is a 2-step process I find:

1) Play with people a little weaker than you so you can get familiar with the game, controls, and your character.

2) Wash all of your habits from 1) from your mind (because chances are those habits are bad and you'll lose a lot because of them), find someone your skill-level or slightly above, and play, play, play.

#8 Posted by Petiew (1282 posts) -

@fistoh: My PSN name is Petie_w so feel free to send me a message if you want to play a game. I'm not great, and not sure how good the connection will be either!

#9 Posted by StarvingGamer (7584 posts) -

Man, for someone who considers themselves new to fighting games, I don't know if I would recommend P4A. The systems in play make the barrier to basic competency significantly higher than games like Street Fighter and Mortal Kombat.

#10 Posted by Fistoh (118 posts) -

@starvinggamer: I've tried every Street Fighter, didn't like any of them. I think watching pro Street Fighter is way more entertaining than actually playing it. Maybe I exaggerated a bit when I said I was new to fighting games, I played Super Street Fighter IV: 3D Edition for a couple weeks after I got it, I thought I was alright at it, but I wasn't having any fun. It's just something about the way it plays that I just don't like. I would also consider myself pretty alright at Melee (my friend considers my Peach skills infuriating), but that's so different I wouldn't count it.

As for MK, MK9 felt really odd to me. I don't like the way it feels. In the small amount of time I played MK9, I liked it more than SF, but still wasn't having much fun.

When I play P4A, I'm having fun. I don't know what it is, the action feels fluid, and is so flashy and just generally cool-looking that it's enthralling to be a part of, even if I'm not exactly sure what I'm doing most of the time. It has that feel of the Persona games that makes them so great, whilst also being a competent fighter.

Never played MvC or KoF though. Maybe I'd enjoy Marvel from the looks of it, but KoF... while it was crazy fun to watch at EVO, I can't see myself playing it at all.

#11 Posted by casper_ (883 posts) -

i've only played a little bit of P4A (so this might be a little speculative) but from what i've seen Chie has really strong rushdown, mixups and a great okizeme (the moment when the opponent is waking up from being knocked down) game. her ideal range is right up in their faces and she has to constantly be trying to make them guess as to whether they ought to block high, low, or whether you are going to throw. those options are mixups. as far as her oki game there is a persona attack in which her persona comes out and spins her weapon. if you time this attack correctly (i think you can control the direction it comes out as well) they will wake up into it and have to block while you continue your mixup game! so Chie is pure rushdown/mixups she needs to be doing shit the whole fight and always wants to be on the opponents ass making them afraid to hit buttons.

so i would think about that in your general strategy and test out set ups in practice mode. also watching match videos is incredibly helpful too! its much easier to execute against real human opponents when you have a clear strategy (IE i want to knock them down so i can set up oki) then the game becomes learning little ways to make that situation possible.

i also recommend going to her character forum at dustloop where people can explain this shit to you way better than i can . this site is the source for basically all the information in the anime/airdasher community.

good luck dude!

#12 Edited by HerbieBug (3858 posts) -

Ah, yes this is good question to ask. It is my opinion that the foundation to basic understanding of how to play against human players is defense and counter-action. I haven't personally played P4A but I'll assume it's similar to Blazblue/Guilty Gear formula. I imagine you have spent some time trying to learn combos. Forget them for now. Just learn one very basic combo that you can perform 100% of the time without any trouble. A three hit jobber is plenty. Don't worry about the intended playstyle of your character choice. It isn't critical at this stage. For now, forget about rushdown and mixup. Those strategies are only valid for intermediate to advanced players who have the basics already down. Right now if you're rushing in, you don't know how to do it safely or effectively and you'll be losing. A lot. And also not learning anything really.

Instead of doing what you normally do against the computer, I'd like you to try moving around less and initiating offensive attack less. Your basic strategy will be this, in order of important: 1. Avoid getting hit. Run away. Back dash. Run underneath them if they are jumping towards you if you have the space. Above all try to make them miss whatever they are attempting to hit you with. 2. Block the hits you can't avoid. When these two things are achieved, your opponent will be briefly vulnerable to attack. Like if they did a special move in the air of some sort and are falling back to the ground- they are usually vulnerable to everything at that time. 3. Hit your opponent with your basic combo or a special or a super or whatever you think you have time to manage. 4. If you managed to hit them, awesome. If you didn't, go back to 1 and 2. If they are knocked down, 5. You may experiment with attacking them as they rise, but for now I suggest you wait to see what they do instead. Online players are extremely fond of wake-up special, or wake-up super, or mashing buttons as they are standing up. Wait to see what they do, if they leave themselves vulnerable (you blocked their super), you can counterattack while they are vulnerable.

Play like this for a while until you have the basics of defense and punishing opponents mistakes for a while. As you get more comfortable, you can start adding your own offense and practicing more damaging combos. You probably should not try to hit a combo in a match that you cannot perform 95% consistently while practicing. Remember, this is about winning. It is not about who can land the fanciest looking thing during the match.

#13 Posted by Fistoh (118 posts) -

So I've been playing a bit today, a very small amount of online, didn't win a match though :C, but mainly Arcade mode with the AI on Hell. I know this probably isn't ideal, but I just want to get the hang of things. The losses I suffered in online felt kind of bad, but better than previous ones. A lot of them were in the third round, with me not realizing they had their OHKOs >>. Playing in Arcade makes me feel like I have a better understanding of how to play against certain characters, specifically Kanji, I feel like I have a better understanding of how he works.

Taking in @herbiebug's advice, I've been sticking to simple combos (Mainly the one-button and the ones @petiew pointed out) and playing very defensively... jeez, maybe I should start a blog :D.

#14 Posted by Vade (391 posts) -

Try to find a training buddy with a good connection so you don't have to play against random online players.

#15 Posted by Fistoh (118 posts) -

@vade: Yeah, that seems like a good idea, unfortunately, none of my irl friends have any interest in this game at all :P. Again, My PSN tag is MikNuggetz if anyone is interested in helping me learn :3

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