Questions about the combat

#1 Posted by FluxWaveZ (19325 posts) -

I was trying to find an answer to this, but I couldn't find anything so I'm making this thread for any questions people might have regarding the combat systems in P4G.

What determines when "fusion skills" are used and how many are there in the game, exactly? Before I replaced Chie with Kanji, Yukiko and Chie would infrequently perform this move after the main character's turn:

Is it randomly after the player pulls off a critical move or hits an enemy's weakness or is there something else? Also, how many of these skills are there in the game? With my final team composition of main character, Yosuke, Yukiko and Kanji, I never saw anything like this again.

#2 Posted by TooWalrus (13161 posts) -

My team was Yukiko, Chie and Naoto, so I saw the twin dragons move a lot. It always happens after an all-out attack fails to kill all of the enemies. The fusion attack usually ends the battle.

#3 Posted by Bocam (3713 posts) -

There are 3 fusion skills. They are Chie & Yukiko, Kanji & Naoto, and Yosuke & Teddie.

#4 Posted by oldenglishC (944 posts) -

Yosuke and Teddie, Kanji and Naoto are the other two combinations.

Pretty sure they just randomly happen after an all out attack.

#5 Posted by FluxWaveZ (19325 posts) -

I see, so it happens after an AoA and there are only three of them. Since this affects team chemistry, I wish I would have known about this before.

#6 Posted by TohruAdachi (261 posts) -

: I think they're really weak in my opinion,they mainly are good for finishing off Gold Hands,but yeah they practically occur after every All-Out-Attack. Teddies + Yosuke is called Junes Bomber,and Kanji + Naoto is Beauty and the Beast. It's not 100% for sure though,thought I mention that.

#7 Edited by selfconfessedcynic (2504 posts) -

@FluxWaveZ: Yup, as states, they are not very strong at all.

You're better off spending time going to the hotsprings with Rise, as when she pitches in to the All out Attack, it starts doing 2-3x the original damage from my experience (and I only went with her 3-4 times) - a much more worthwhile investment than having a team you don't like.

Though rolling with Yosuke, Teddy and Naoto is a very effective combination (Yosuke and Teddy can establish all 3 buffs on the team, then Naoto can just daisy-chain Heat Risers to keep everyone topped up for the entire fight, with maybe 1 re cast of the buffs by those two every 9 or so turns - perhaps longer if Rise keeps "raising the team's attack").

My unstoppable team was Yosuke, Yukiko, Naoto (I have a tri-auto norn so we open the fight with all buffs then Naoto just maintains heat riser on everyone but the MC in perpetuity and the MC handles himself), Shield of Justice (naoto's January skill) is invaluable vs Margaret on Very Hard.

No combo attack at all there, but when Rise pitched in for AoAs, they'd frequently do over 1000 damage.

ED: Oh, and as I keep trying to put out there, I no longer recommend the old curb-stomping team of Chie / Kanji / X since the optional bosses just laugh at physical attacks. You're better off having Boost + Amp + -Dyne on your characters (especially as Rise gives everyone Power Charge and Mind Charge every couple of turns now).

#8 Posted by TohruAdachi (261 posts) -

: Are you kidding me!? Bike rides with Rise gives you more damage output from All-Out-Attack!? I still don't like wasting days on Bikes though,but wowzers 1000 damage? Also I think the best team early on the game is probably Yukiko/Teddie/Yosuke. They were my first party on vanilla too. They all have great magic including Yosuke has great physical (Brave Blade) and obtains Wind boost + amp,in my opinion,best character in the game for your party. Yukiko and Teddie just have outrageous magic and damage,especially Yukiko including dat support + buffs from both of them is superb. Teddie also obtains Evade Phy from bike skills and Yukiko gets Mind Charge.

This is probably the best party you can get in the game,including you get Teddies + Yosukes combo attack which like I said,can finish off enemies usually. So basically the benefits of this team is all buff spells,powerful ravage,okay physical,great heal,and practically unstoppable if used right.

I'm going to kick Chie out now that I got Halloween costume for Yukiko,I swear ALL OF HER costumes look horrible on her,I think it's because of her trademark hairband and she has to have Velvet Margaret costume... Yosuke is rocking the Velvet Room Bellboy,Teddie really depends...

#9 Edited by selfconfessedcynic (2504 posts) -

@TohruAdachi: Yeah! If you're not worried about 100%ing, bike rides with Rise are great - oh, and you can't choose anything with her, it just raises AoA damage.

There are a bunch of really great team combos, yeah. Yosuke + Teddy is a great go-to no matter what you decide your last character is.

My main issue with Teddy is that his final skill is pretty bad (RNG madness) - especially when compared to Chie's Dragon Hustle or Yosuke's Youthful Wind or especially Naoto's Shield of Justice.

If you can kill margaret with that team before she starts using Hassou Tobi then you're good (you SHOULD have very good damage output with yosuke/yukiko/teddy), but you're losing out on a character with no weaknesses (ie, Naoto ), and with Yosuke / Yukiko / Naoto everyone is also immune to fire which is a life-saver.

Also, you're still blowing turns which could be spent blocking or using Brave Blade / Mind Charge since half your team will be on buff duty instead of just 1. It does save turns for the MC though, so if you can make that work for you, all the better (your turn cycle will become power charge -> debilitate -> Primal Force / Hassou Tobi I guess, which should boost your damage from 1200/3-turns to 1600/3-turns, or 750 -> 900ish with Primal Force).

If she DOES start using Hassou Tobi though, you're screwed unless Yukiko and Yosuke block it, and that starts burning through turns like nobody's business.

BUT that isn't to say that Yosuke / Yukiko / Naoto is the only good combo, or that yours is bad. I just like highlighting why I made my decisions - beyond RP reasons of wanting my MC's girlfriend on his team.

#10 Posted by TohruAdachi (261 posts) -

: I see what you're saying. YOU THINK YOU'RE BETTER THAN ME,joking. Anyways,joking aside,that's actually a good strategy. I don't think we have to worry about Yosuke though since he's one of the characters with the highest agility if I'm correct?

Also another con about Yosuke/Yukiko/Teddie is that they both share the same weakness which is definitely bad. Anyways to your party,doesn't Naoto eat SP like crazy? I was going to use her,but I forgot for the second time to buy a Detective costume so I didn't feel like it. (Besides used her on Vanilla like three times)

Anyways why need to block when you have evade. Also you're forgetting that Rise can block for you,and they all have mortal blow for at least once/two times every battle,and also the only people you have to be worried about is Yukiko and ___. Yosuke is literally the dodge master for me.

However Naoto even though she has no weakness,she's still kind of weak too. Angelic Grace is hardly useful if you can't dodge against Almightly,she has no amp or boost,and her stats,endurance/magic/agility isn't that superb as other characters if I believe. So basically she's only good for the invincibility side. Anyways I like the fact Naoto isn't strong,I love to unbalance my teams,but yeah even with a Chakra ring can she use Justice Shield more than three times? I've used her before,just never used Justice Shield because I didn't want to waste a day on her.

Yosuke obviously has the great agility and semi-heal buff skill which is ultra useful,but the animation gets annoying sometime when I have full HP and I just need to buff myself. On the other hand,Yosuke is practically settled,best character to use whether you're a beginner or expert for his powerful physical,magic,blah blah blah.

Yukiko got super buffed in this game with Mind Charge and Burning Petals. I have to admit I was impressed,they truly made her the strongest magic in the game.

#11 Posted by Neurotic (632 posts) -

Eh, those co-op skills look cool but in my experience haven't added a whole lot of damage. It usually ended up that I never had the right combination for any of them since my A-team was Yosuke/Yukiko/Kanji.

#12 Edited by selfconfessedcynic (2504 posts) -

@TohruAdachi: For reference, this is my team:

Even with 84 Ag and hit/evade buff, Yosuke still took most of the hits during that fight. No doubt he dodged more than anyone else but my MC, but still. Perhaps the Godly Robe isn't the best choice here as I think there's armor out there with 300 or so defence and 30 evade, but I DO like seeing high numbers oh so much.

Note that Hassou Tobi starts after 2x 9999 Megidolaons (turns 25 and 50 - in OG it was 50 and 100), so your Rise save and everyone's personal saves are already burned through. Margret ain't no slouch, and Debilitate only lasts 1.5 turns on her as each of her casts counts as 1 turn as opposed to the story-bosses where they don't for some reason.

As for Naoto, yeah she's got Invigorate and a Chakra ring - she only needed to use Shield of Justice 3x before Margaret went down and that was 240sp well spent (to block 3x Hassou Tobis - until that point she never needed any SP help as Heat Riser is just 8sp/turn after all those mods). In boss fights she ONLY uses Heat Riser and items to heal everyone, so having Megidolaon on her is literally just for Gold Hands.

(and yes, I know I don't have Mind Charge on Yukiko, but I just dont like her : / - plus, Rise focuses on everyone enough for her to be charged when she isn't healing).

ED: As a note for Shield of Justice, you can't use it to block the Megidolaons as Margaret usually does something before it (once she did Megidolaon -> Megidolaon -_-; ). It is mainly there to block Hassou Tobi.

#13 Posted by TohruAdachi (261 posts) -

: I hear you on Yukiko man... I think she's my least favorite persona character,bottom of the list from Yukari in my opinion. I know for sure I'll keep Teddie and Yosuke,since I need a healer and Yosuke is self-explanatory. I'm really on the edge of replacing Yukiko though,and I kind of want to replace Yosuke. His inferno afro is so badass though,and he's like a brother... My next party probably going to be Naoto/Chie/Teddie.

Also man I haven't even tried to beat Reaper yet,that bastard always appears when I don't need him to,but when I do he doesn't appear. I opened literally more than 50 treasure boxes hunting for Golden hands and did I hear any chains rattle? NO! Still frustrated,but damn Justice Shield is really useful for Margaret... I might consider keeping that on Naoto,and that's her secret weapon right? I enjoy reading description of weapons,I don't know why,just interesting. Like the Strega Claw for Ted.

#14 Edited by selfconfessedcynic (2504 posts) -

@TohruAdachi: It's actually her 30k or so weapon (the only person I don't use the secret weapon with :P ) You're right, it's her secret weapon you get from beating her dungeon the second time (I thought you meant her reaper weapon, sorry - and I thought I'd bought it : D) - the +5 to all stats is better than having higher physical attack with her, since I don't use her physical... ever.

At the end of that playthrough I had fought the reaper... 14 times? Full set of weapons, 5 godly robes, 1 Omnipotent Orb (just to see what it did as I'd forgotten).

The trick with the reaper is to open 16 boxes, save, then do 5 all in one go /reload if no reaper. It seems to be a random seed built on opening boxes - the more boxes you re-do the better the chance of getting the reaper. (so saving at 19 boxes WORKS, and I did it twice to play with it, but it actually ends up taking much longer than saving at 16)

ED: Wait a second. I have Hattori equipped there, which is Yosuke's +3/all stats weapon. Huh. I must have been sweeping, since that's more useful outside of boss fights.

Let's see.... good weapons outside the Reaper ones (some perhaps better than them) are:

  • MC: Use the Reaper one. You get it first time you beat the reaper and it's worth it.
  • Yosuke: Hattori (+3/all stats), 52,000
  • Chie: Stella Greaves (+5 Strength), 61,200
  • Yukiko: Hototogisu (+10 Magic), 46,000
  • Kanji: Aegis Shield (+10 Endurance), 60,000 (I'd get the Reaper weapon for him since this aint all that)
  • Naoto: Algernon (Secret Weapon, beat her dungeon a second time)
  • Teddy: Shitisei (+4 Magic), 62,800

Best non-Reaper armor:

  • Male: Opera Coat (325/19), 56,000 - much MUCH worse than the reaper armor.
  • Female: Kotodama Cape (310/19), 54,400 or Amaterasu Hitoe (251, 29) - no idea where I got this though, and I think there's a male equivalent out there somewhere.
#15 Edited by TohruAdachi (261 posts) -

: Haha thanks for the suggestions,yeah I found using weapons with critical rate up and such useless since I rarely even use normal attacks. I've always used Algernon for Naoto because I never ever used physical for her. I didn't know about that for Chie or Teddie though,thanks. I already have Kotodama Cape for females,not sure about Amatersu Hitoe,but there's a site where it tells you what materials you need to sell to Daidara to obtain it. And thanks a interesting strategy,I thought once you leave the dungeon the whole thing resets,I'll try that out.

Well on my fourth gameplay,I plan on getting the reaper gear than,for sure maxing all social links,getting powerful persona,than I'm going to take a long ass break,and play through Persona 3 Portable like three times. Playing Maniac at the moment with a female main character,I'm barely on Fuuka's part,playing little by little,I might try to beat P4G again by today since I just kicked Nametame's ass without training at Heaven once... I dominated Naoto a couple days,I practically beat all the bosses at the same level I was as Mitsuo,just some gold hand finding for cash and gained a few levels.

Anyways thanks for the help,you should write a guide. I plan on doing all the food recipes soon,I was always to lazy to write them down. If you ever do make a guide,I'll just sent you the info,because you'll probably make a really good guide.

#16 Posted by Jedted (2344 posts) -

I noticed in Jeff's Top 10 video there were clips of Youske and the Hero riding motorcycles in the dungeon.  I've unlocked my motorcycle but i haven't seen anything like that in battle. 

#17 Posted by killerklown907 (23 posts) -

Oh man, all this theory crafting makes me want to get way more into the combat and RPG bits, I've just been beating the dungeons like the first week they are open to get back to s.link stuff.

#18 Edited by Jedted (2344 posts) -

Quick question about combat difficulty:  I remember hearing that rain days had harder shadows in the dungeons, what about thunder storms?  I think i saved Rise on like the 2nd or 3rd day after she fell into the TV which happened to be a stormy day.  Are there any super rare loot drops that you can only get on those days? 

#19 Edited by Scrumdidlyumptious (1639 posts) -

@Jedted said:

I noticed in Jeff's Top 10 video there were clips of Youske and the Hero riding motorcycles in the dungeon. I've unlocked my motorcycle but i haven't seen anything like that in battle.

There's just a random chance that if you get a follow up attack, it will be one of the characters not in your party at the time. Yosuke does his Yosuke Strike, Chie does her Galactic Punt e.t.c. on a bike if they're not in your party. You need to social link with the characters not in your party enough so that they actually use follow up attacks though.

@Jedted said:

Quick question about combat difficulty: I remember hearing that rain days had harder shadows in the dungeons, what about thunder storms? I think i saved Rise on like the 2nd or 3rd day after she fell into the TV which happened to be a stormy day. Are there any super rare loot drops that you can only get on those days?

I think stormy days increase the probability of encountering the Reaper on the 22nd chest. Good for farming.

#20 Posted by dogman795 (109 posts) -

@Jedted said:

I noticed in Jeff's Top 10 video there were clips of Youske and the Hero riding motorcycles in the dungeon. I've unlocked my motorcycle but i haven't seen anything like that in battle.

The other character was actually Naoto.

After you get the bikes, sometimes people who aren't in your current party will perform follow-up attacks (a la Galactic Punt) using there bikes. I believe the likelihood of them coming in increases the more bike trips you go on with them (taking the girls to the bath/guys to the beach), but I'm not sure.

#21 Posted by Jedted (2344 posts) -

Is there a super fast way to defeat Money Hands?  Usually i'm lucky if i can kill one before the other two escape. 

#22 Posted by aznjon12 (188 posts) -

@Jedted said:

Is there a super fast way to defeat Money Hands? Usually i'm lucky if i can kill one before the other two escape.

Hands are really vulnerable to almighty damage. I usually mind charge and megidola with Naoto or the MC.

#23 Posted by Jedted (2344 posts) -

I remember hearing that the dungeons only repopulate when leaving the TV world, was that changed in Golden? I've noticed that after moving to the next floor and then returning to the previous one there are more Shadows. Does this mean i can keep grinding the top level of a dungeon as long as i have enough money for Fox heals?

Also, i'm pretty obsessive about keeping my Party at around the same level. Is there any way to power level the later Party members as the join(ie. Kanji or Naoto)?

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