The new fanservice is gross.

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#201 Posted by JeanLuc (3608 posts) -

Yeah its gross but I'm not really surprised since Persona 3 FES and P3P had stuff like this. Its also not as big a deal because I can simply ignore it by not wearing the stuff.

Online
#202 Posted by mr_shoeless (388 posts) -

I don't like the outfits either, and I do think they cross the line of not being appropriate to the characters that are wearing them. Nowhere in P4 do I get the impression that Yukiko or (especially) Naoto would want to wear those. One of the great things about P4 is that the other characters feel more fully drawn, not just secondary avatars for the player. This is why I put them on AI attacks outside of the boss battles, because that way they are making their own decisions like real people; not just dumbly doing everything I tell them. Having them wear clothing of my choosing breaks that immersion.

That said, the last shot of them wearing matching suits and sunglasses looks pretty cool.

#203 Posted by Dagbiker (6978 posts) -

Everyone who is getting mad is also totally disregarding the context for the scene. And forgetting that their was already a bathhouse scene in P4. Wait until you see the final cut before you hang Atlus.

#204 Posted by cmblasko (1344 posts) -

Unnecessary and offensive on a number of levels. Completely goes against the characters' natures and insults the player's intelligence. I was going to purchase this when I got my hands on a Vita, not even considering it anymore. I realize this kind of content comes off as normal or just an accepted caveat to those who are into anime and/or manga, but that really doesn't make it OK. I want the characters to act as human beings, not virtual fetish dolls.

#205 Posted by MrKlorox (11209 posts) -

"Fan service" is such a euphemism. I wish they would call it what it is instead of what it might potentially be to some, while excluding other things that could still be considered as such.
 
Having said that, the scantily clad ladies depicted are ultra tame. It's not like Nanako is in there or anything is uncensored or even showing a lot of curves.

#206 Posted by AngelN7 (2973 posts) -

@mr_shoeless said:

I don't like the outfits either, and I do think they cross the line of not being appropriate to the characters that are wearing them. Nowhere in P4 do I get the impression that Yukiko or (especially) Naoto would want to wear those. One of the great things about P4 is that the other characters feel more fully drawn, not just secondary avatars for the player. This is why I put them on AI attacks outside of the boss battles, because that way they are making their own decisions like real people; not just dumbly doing everything I tell them. Having them wear clothing of my choosing breaks that immersion.

That said, the last shot of them wearing matching suits and sunglasses looks pretty cool.

That's just crazy! I know you want to roleplay but why!?

#207 Posted by UncleClassy (405 posts) -

@OmegaChosen said:

@UncleClassy said:

With all this new fan service, I would've at least expected a Dojima romance option. Disappointment doesn't even begin to describe my feelings for this game.

Choose "surprise me" when he asks how you like your hot coffee after convincing him to ditch the kid.

To which responds with a wink and a double shot of cream.

#208 Posted by FluxWaveZ (19388 posts) -

@OmegaChosen said:

Regarding the bathhouse scene, I don't even care. It's a scene, there's steam. Whatever. If you're outraged by an inconsequential two minute scene out of a hundred hour game then nothing I could say would really help I expect.

Outrage is a bit strong. You might not care, but the opinions of others in this thread show that that's not the general thought of everyone.

#209 Posted by Irvandus (2881 posts) -

P3 Fes was similar.

#210 Edited by ceruelantransience (27 posts) -

Hot as fuck.

Though I still want to be able to date Kanji-kun~

#211 Posted by BaconGames (3574 posts) -

While I have my own opinion (eh, yeah it is gross but nothing more), I find it fascinating that I can even speak to this as a fan despite never playing the game. What's weirder is that I'm far from alone on this. Every viewer of the ER that stayed the whole way are now in as valid position to more or less speak about P4 as people who played it prior or maybe concurrently. All this underscores how much the P4ER was really a common cultural event for a lot of people still at the site. It's just amazing when that event was two people from a well loved video game website played through a 100 JRPG and put it on the site.

#212 Posted by envane (1164 posts) -

@MrKlorox: if i recall they have a scene in the p4 anime with nanako at yukikos bathhouse , nothing risque but its proof that they could have gone there with this additional content , so kudos if they didnt ? we will have to see

#213 Posted by FluxWaveZ (19388 posts) -

@envane said:

@MrKlorox: if i recall they have a scene in the p4 anime with nanako at yukikos bathhouse , nothing risque but its proof that they could have gone there with this additional content , so kudos if they didnt ? we will have to see

That's not a bathhouse, that's the Amagi Inn hot spring. In the original game, Nanako is also there just like in the anime. The bathhouse is a whole new thing for Persona 4 Golden.

#214 Edited by OmegaChosen (647 posts) -

@FluxWaveZ said:

@OmegaChosen said:

Regarding the bathhouse scene, I don't even care. It's a scene, there's steam. Whatever. If you're outraged by an inconsequential two minute scene out of a hundred hour game then nothing I could say would really help I expect.

Outrage is a bit strong. You might not care, but the opinions of others in this thread show that that's not the general thought of everyone.

Depends on the individual, as I've seen a few people who seem to be almost moral guardian-esque regarding this. I just don't see the big deal about this when it takes up little, so very little, of the game and aside from an anime cutscene is completely optional. It's something you have to actively equip. You can't even stumble upon it by accident by which way of "oh, this armor's pretty good, I wonder what it looks li-OH, holy mother of sheesh!" because they made these skins a completely separate equip that affect nothing besides how their armor looks. If you don't like it just...don't equip them. Toss them if you don't want them. Don't even try to unlock them in the first place. Just ignore them.

These are alternate designs on pixels of a character model. I find them a non-issue. I care more about the few seconds of humor I get from reading their flustered responses than anything else.

I feel like there's this big dissonance between actions and visuals. Some people find these armor skins and anime cutscene offensive and gross and yet double timing every last romanceable girl in the game even when there's an option not to is totally okay? Charlie can get these girls to fall head over heels for him and potentially sleep with them all before ditching town and that's somehow less exploitative of the female gender than clothing that shows less than the average bikini? (Seriously, I might as well be looking at MMO armor).

If this all just seems like pointless argument, then here's how my mind has categorized it: this is a thing. I've seen worse. Much worse. I don't see the problem which I think is the key thing here. I don't see a problem but others do so...I guess there's nothing to be done aside from those who care enough to not play the game.

#215 Posted by iAmJohn (6134 posts) -

@ervonymous said:

I guess I found the 'going in to the Television World to summon otherworldly demons to do my bidding' part to be so far removed from reality that I didn't spend too much time rationalizing it. I totally see why Naoto's ass crack bothers you but it doesn't even register to me, sorry.

It's not that it really bothers me--I mean whatever, at a point it's kind of inherent to the game that you have some kind of attraction to the characters because if you don't the romance angle of the Social Links doesn't play so of course they're gonna lean into it as much as they can get away with--so much as it feels like something that cheapens the game. Dumb skimpy girl costumes are the lamest, most obvious new content you can add. And worse than being lame, they fetishize the characters in a game that succeeded largely because they made them strong characters first and foremost before throwing a little bit of cheesecake. Persona 4 is a better game than Persona 3 partially because they cut the blatant titillation shit like this; that Yukari shower scene in Persona 3 I mentioned earlier is one of the worst parts of that game and literally serves no other purpose than to show you a lovingly animated cutscene of the love interest character in the shower, and they essentially went out of their way to create a new one for Persona 4. I'd just like to think Atlus is way more clever than this garbage, and frankly it gives me pause about the quality of the new content.

#216 Posted by Bigheart711 (1240 posts) -

You sound more disgusted about all this Flux, but the fanservice shown doesn't really bother me. However, I agree that Naoto's fanservice costume shown seriously doesn't suit her at all.

All of this also reminded me of the first time I learned that the characters in the original P4 don't get laid the fuck out after battle like they do in P3 when they're KO'd/killed and that was the TV trip a few days after the bathhouse scene. Yeeeeeah, I can be a real dick in videogames sometimes.

#217 Posted by Snail (8661 posts) -

@Hailinel said:

@FluxWaveZ: If you think this is gross, you're a hilarious prude. I'd also be surprised if the original P4 creative staff didn't have some sort of sign-off on the new content.

Besides that, not all of the additional costumes are that skimpy.

You're being ridiculously dismissive of a real issue.

Online
#218 Posted by Hizang (8532 posts) -

@JasonR86 said:

Naoto kind of looks like a crossdresser. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

#219 Posted by Hailinel (25205 posts) -

@Snail said:

@Hailinel said:

@FluxWaveZ: If you think this is gross, you're a hilarious prude. I'd also be surprised if the original P4 creative staff didn't have some sort of sign-off on the new content.

Besides that, not all of the additional costumes are that skimpy.

You're being ridiculously dismissive of a real issue.

Skimpy costumes like those aren't "gross." They're just skimpy costumes, some of which have really dumb designs.

#220 Posted by golguin (4044 posts) -

@envane said:

@MrKlorox: if i recall they have a scene in the p4 anime with nanako at yukikos bathhouse , nothing risque but its proof that they could have gone there with this additional content , so kudos if they didnt ? we will have to see

Here you go.

#221 Edited by ervonymous (1297 posts) -

@iAmJohn said:

It's not that it really bothers me--I mean whatever, at a point it's kind of inherent to the game that you have some kind of attraction to the characters because if you don't the romance angle of the Social Links doesn't play so of course they're gonna lean into it as much as they can get away with--so much as it feels like something that cheapens the game. Dumb skimpy girl costumes are the lamest, most obvious new content you can add. And worse than being lame, they fetishize the characters in a game that succeeded largely because they made them strong characters first and foremost before throwing a little bit of cheesecake. Persona 4 is a better game than Persona 3 partially because they cut the blatant titillation shit like this; that Yukari shower scene in Persona 3 I mentioned earlier is one of the worst parts of that game and literally serves no other purpose than to show you a lovingly animated cutscene of the love interest character in the shower, and they essentially went out of their way to create a new one for Persona 4. I'd just like to think Atlus is way more clever than this garbage, and frankly it gives me pause about the quality of the new content.

Huh, I never thought of the shower scene that way. I mean, they were in a love hotel looking for the Lust shadow when they were suddenly teleported to separate rooms and Minato heard "Let your desire free you from your shackles... Such is my wish..." ringing in his ears. Do you need to see Yukari's shoulder, the shadow of her butt cheek and her belly button for all six seconds in a 15 second animated scene? I checked. Certainly not, but I thought it drove the point home - his classmate's in there buck naked and he's fighting against urges that aren't his own. What about the three measurements scene in the hospital in P4? Sure they had story reasons to go for a checkup, but wasn't implying that Naoto keeps her huge chest under wraps lame and fetishizing? They didn't animate much of the hanky panky stuff in 4 but it was still there, devaluing the game. I never thought the series had much consistency in tone after Eternal Punishment anyway, and even there you were seducing demons to get collectible cards.

#222 Posted by Brodehouse (10129 posts) -

I always thought P4 did pretty good at riding the line between innocence and tawdriness. It's not a game that ignores sex, even though I know a lot of nerds are extremely uncomfortable when sexual desire is brought up (probably a degree of self-loathing, which I can completely understand). I haven't seen this bathhouse scene, so I can't make too much comment. From the stills it looks like natural feminine bonding, who knows what they're talking about, and then the boys have the natural urge to peek and oh hijinks are afoot! Or maybe it's another hot springs misunderstanding.

Remember, there was a part in that game where the guys broke into what they thought was the girls room and tried to get busy with them. And then they discovered it was the teacher. Who then was open to the idea of taking a four man train of high school students. ... Man, that game was incredible. I actually like how it handles natural sexual desires, I like how Yosuke is always testing the waters, I like how Naoto is completely uncomfortable and how Rise is completely the opposite. "Nah, her boobs are bigger than mine." Maybe because the game's main thrust is people's hidden feelings and desires, but the sexual angle of the game just works at such a higher level than something like Mass Effect, which is guns guns guns and then suddenly fucking is involved.

The cheesecake battle things are just there to be visually interesting. AFAIK they're not an integral part of characterization or mentioned in any meaningful way. Just a weird bonus, like the bancho shirts and BATTLE PANTIES in P3P. Actually, the Battle Panties were awesome because Yukari and Mitsuru would comment on being unhappy wearing them. I'd love to see how embarrassed it got Naoto, considering she hates her body. I wonder if Chie is just like "OH MAN I CAN KICK WAY BETTER WITHOUT A SKIRT!" All I look at those costumes is a way to make the battles a little visually different every few hours.

#223 Posted by StarvingGamer (8555 posts) -

Seems fine to me.

Then again I grew up on Ranma 1/2 and Evangelion. Plenty of totally-nude underage titties in those.

#224 Edited by sissylion (675 posts) -

I was going to say that that was super gross, but if Kanji also has a swimsuit, I guess I feel somewhat better about it? Still not great, but better.

I don't want there to be a double-standard like in FES, where the extra female outfits were things like bikinis and maid uniforms, and the one for the MC was, like, a Hawaiian shirt.

#225 Posted by The_Nubster (2355 posts) -

I'm a little surprised at how flippant everyone is being about this. Those bathouse scenes and, to a bit of a lesser extent, sexy armour, deeply undermines any character development that the female characters get. Naoto, especially, is very adamant about never being anything close to un-clothed, yet she'll throw on some skimpy armour with a thong? And Yukiko is supposed to be the aloof, proud, elegant girl, Chie a tomboy. This goes against everything they are, as characters. Rise can go either way, since she is way more open about her body and there are girls who don't care who sees what part of them. Putting aside the ickyness of the sexualization of 14 year-old girls, this stuff goes against the portrayal of these characters.

#226 Posted by cexantus (131 posts) -

@The_Nubster:

Exactly, and that's what's so frustrating about fanservice in general. It reduces any female characterization to that of being mindless sex dolls; they're there solely as fankwankery for its male audeince and nothing else. In an age where porn and sex can be found at the click of the button, I just find pointless fanservice to be, well, pointless.

#227 Posted by Brodehouse (10129 posts) -
@The_Nubster actually, it doesn't go against their characterization at all, unless they go "I love wearin my battle panties! I'm not shy at all!"

If anything, it reinforces how Yu is some sort of Goddamn silvertongued mastermind who could sell snow to Eskimos.
#228 Posted by The_Nubster (2355 posts) -

@Brodehouse: When you say it like that, it sounds like they're being forced to wear their battle panties, which is equally fucked-up. Naoto couldn't even be forced to wear a bathing suit for the contest, or have any mention of her breasts, but now she'll throw on her battle panties? And Yukiko and Chie, who were bashful about wearing bathing suits in a situation where they had to (swimming at camp), are now totally fine with running around in a similar amount of clothing? Again, it doesn't bother me for Rise, because that's in line with her character, but for the other females, it seems strange. It doesn't fit with how they were shown to be in the game. Just because they can be sold something, doesn't mean they have to wear it.

#229 Edited by Neurotic (632 posts) -

@The_Nubster said:

I'm a little surprised at how flippant everyone is being about this. Those bathouse scenes and, to a bit of a lesser extent, sexy armour, deeply undermines any character development that the female characters get. Naoto, especially, is very adamant about never being anything close to un-clothed, yet she'll throw on some skimpy armour with a thong? And Yukiko is supposed to be the aloof, proud, elegant girl, Chie a tomboy. This goes against everything they are, as characters. Rise can go either way, since she is way more open about her body and there are girls who don't care who sees what part of them. Putting aside the ickyness of the sexualization of 14 year-old girls, this stuff goes against the portrayal of these characters.

Agreed about wearing the armour but putting them in those outfits is your (as the player) call. The bathhouse stuff isn't contrary to character development. Did they hate taking baths before? Bathing and bathhouses are a big thing in Japan. There's nothing in their characters suggesting they wouldn't go to a bath house. In fact, they do just that in the first game. Where the 'camera' chooses to linger has nothing to do with their character.

Also, I hate to be a pedant but none of these characters are 14.

#230 Posted by The_Nubster (2355 posts) -

@Neurotic: I don't hate that there's a bath house, because they don't care very much about going, but it's the way the game lingers on the naked teenagers. It's implied, you know? They're in a bath house and naked. What purpose is there to show asscracks and soapy tits, other than to get players excited? And if you want to go that route, I'll bet there's plenty of hentai featuring those characters, so that kind of renders those scenes moot. It's just weird and unnecessary.

Oh, and they're 15/16 for the events of Persona 4, you're right. Thought they were younger for some reason.

#231 Posted by Dallas_Raines (2222 posts) -

@Hailinel said:

@FluxWaveZ: If you think this is gross, you're a hilarious prude. I'd also be surprised if the original P4 creative staff didn't have some sort of sign-off on the new content.

Besides that, not all of the additional costumes are that skimpy.

Yeah, it's Japan, they automatically get a free pass with stupid, creepy bullshit. Now if a certain Canadian company did something like this, I'm sure the internet would erupt in flaming rage.

Online
#232 Posted by Hailinel (25205 posts) -

@The_Nubster said:

@Neurotic: I don't hate that there's a bath house, because they don't care very much about going, but it's the way the game lingers on the naked teenagers. It's implied, you know? They're in a bath house and naked. What purpose is there to show asscracks and soapy tits, other than to get players excited? And if you want to go that route, I'll bet there's plenty of hentai featuring those characters, so that kind of renders those scenes moot. It's just weird and unnecessary.

Oh, and they're 15/16 for the events of Persona 4, you're right. Thought they were younger for some reason.

The scene is weird and unnecessary because there's unlicensed hentai featuring the characters?

That correlation makes no sense.

#233 Posted by GlenTennis (3145 posts) -

@The_Nubster said:

What purpose is there to show asscracks and soapy tits, other than to get players excited? And if you want to go that route, I'll bet there's plenty of hentai featuring those characters, so that kind of renders those scenes moot. It's just weird and unnecessary.

I agree. Seems unnecessary.

#234 Posted by Neurotic (632 posts) -

@The_Nubster: Yeah, but that's got nothing to do with their character development and them acting out of character as you suggested. I bet Naoto will be just as embarrassed about being naked in front of the rest of them as she was in the bathhouse scene in the original game. The lingering is more on the developers and here I agree, it does kinda suck that they seem to shove it in your face. It's true that the role of bathing and bathhouses in Japanese culture has been exploited for fanservice and that kinda sucks too but it's been that way for a very long time. I think that a lot of people who are upset about this in this thread are disappointed that it's in Persona 4, a game they love and involving characters that they're attached to. I sort of agree but, as has been pointed out many times before, the original game wasn't free of this stuff. It's just that the bathhouse nakedness is now an animated cutscene instead of being rendered on an unflattering in-game engine. As I also pointed out earlier, Persona 4 is a long game and I doubt fanservice of this nature will make up most of the experience of The Golden.

Actually, I figured Chie and Yukiko were 16/17 (in the penultimate year of high school, that's the age I was). It's Rise and Naoto who're 15/16.

#235 Posted by FluxWaveZ (19388 posts) -

@Neurotic: There was no bathhouse scene in the original game. The original game had an Amagi Inn hot spring scene. This bathhouse scene is an additional one.

#236 Edited by mutha3 (4986 posts) -
@The_Nubster said:

@Neurotic:

Oh, and they're 15/16 for the events of Persona 4, you're right. Thought they were younger for some reason.

If you'll allow further pedantry -- They're 16-17, actually.
@Brodehouse said:
@The_Nubster  If anything, it reinforces how Yu is some sort of Goddamn silvertongued mastermind who could sell snow to Eskimos.

That's kind of a problem with P4's writing in general, yeah.

  @GlenTennis said:

@The_Nubster said:

What purpose is there to show asscracks and soapy tits, other than to get players excited? And if you want to go that route, I'll bet there's plenty of hentai featuring those characters, so that kind of renders those scenes moot. It's just weird and unnecessary.

I agree. Seems unnecessary.

natural feminine bonding don't you get it. 
 
clearly you're just a frustrated nerd who gets extremely uncomfortable when sexual desire is brought up. this anime game is beyond your comprhension.
#237 Posted by Neurotic (632 posts) -

@FluxWaveZ said:

@Neurotic: There was no bathhouse scene in the original game. The original game had an Amagi Inn hot spring scene. This bathhouse scene is an additional one.

Alright, whatever. Hot springs/bathhouse. Same difference.

#238 Posted by Hailinel (25205 posts) -

@FluxWaveZ said:

@Neurotic: There was no bathhouse scene in the original game. The original game had an Amagi Inn hot spring scene. This bathhouse scene is an additional one.

Are you sure that this isn't just an anime cutscene version of the Amagi Inn sequence?

#239 Edited by mutha3 (4986 posts) -
@Hailinel said:

@FluxWaveZ said:

@Neurotic: There was no bathhouse scene in the original game. The original game had an Amagi Inn hot spring scene. This bathhouse scene is an additional one.

Are you sure that this isn't just an anime cutscene version of the Amagi Inn sequence?

Oh, no, that scene simply got animated as well for The Golden.  There's 2 creepy, pointless (animated) bathhouse scenes now!
 
The new one is in February.
#240 Posted by FluxWaveZ (19388 posts) -

@Hailinel said:

Are you sure that this isn't just an anime cutscene version of the Amagi Inn sequence?

I'm not, actually, but I don't believe it is.

@Neurotic said:

Alright, whatever. Hot springs/bathhouse. Same difference.

Not really, because they're two different scenes and you were talking as though they were the same.

#241 Posted by casper_ (908 posts) -

here's to hoping persona 5 isn't just super pandering fan service nonsense.

#242 Posted by Mr_Skeleton (5154 posts) -

Why do they call it fan service, isn't it like calling all the fans creepy perverts?

#243 Posted by Getz (3154 posts) -

It's a little fucked up but I can't really say it makes me angry. Really, the main issues is Naoto, whose "outfit" betrays her character pretty severely, but at the end of the day this stuff is bonus content and not even remotely canon.

#244 Posted by Neurotic (632 posts) -

@FluxWaveZ: True, but the point I was making in that post still stands especially if mutha3 is right and the hot springs part is animated now as well. What I was saying applies whether it's a hot springs or a bathhouse. It's not out of character for them to visit these establishments.

Anyway, do we even know how long these animated cutscenes are? Cos the ones in the vanilla game were pretty short. Do the whole scenes play out in those cutscenes?

#245 Posted by OmegaChosen (647 posts) -

@Neurotic said:

@FluxWaveZ: True, but the point I was making in that post still stands especially if mutha3 is right and the hot springs part is animated now as well. What I was saying applies whether it's a hot springs or a bathhouse. It's not out of character for them to visit these establishments.

Anyway, do we even know how long these animated cutscenes are? Cos the ones in the vanilla game were pretty short. Do the whole scenes play out in those cutscenes?

Doesn't matter how long they are. They're in there and therefore the characters are sex dolls now.

#246 Posted by Vegetable_Side_Dish (1733 posts) -
@ervonymous said:
What seems to be the problem here?
OMG GROSS I'M SO OFFENDED  
 
CHANGE IT CHANGE IT CHANGE IT I'M TOO MATURE FOR THIS
#247 Posted by ervonymous (1297 posts) -

@Vegetable_Side_Dish said:

@ervonymous said:
What seems to be the problem here?
OMG GROSS I'M SO OFFENDED CHANGE IT CHANGE IT CHANGE IT I'M TOO MATURE FOR THIS

He's only 15, think of the children.

#248 Posted by OmegaChosen (647 posts) -

@Vegetable_Side_Dish said:

@ervonymous said:
What seems to be the problem here?
OMG GROSS I'M SO OFFENDED CHANGE IT CHANGE IT CHANGE IT I'M TOO MATURE FOR THIS

Ohhhh yeaaaahhhh.....Niiiiiice. Day one purchase.

Also, gamefaqs says the new bathhouse scene is a minute long for those who are wondering.

#249 Posted by Dallas_Raines (2222 posts) -

@OmegaChosen said:

@Vegetable_Side_Dish said:

@ervonymous said:
What seems to be the problem here?
OMG GROSS I'M SO OFFENDED CHANGE IT CHANGE IT CHANGE IT I'M TOO MATURE FOR THIS

Ohhhh yeaaaahhhh.....Niiiiiice. Day one purchase.

Also, gamefaqs says the new bathhouse scene is a minute long for those who are wondering.

A minute sounds about right.

Online
#250 Edited by mutha3 (4986 posts) -
@Neurotic said:

@FluxWaveZ: True, but the point I was making in that post still stands especially if mutha3 is right and the hot springs part is animated now as well. What I was saying applies whether it's a hot springs or a bathhouse.

I'm not assuming there's a new scene, I saw 'em months ago when spoilers for Golden hit the web. I'm sure they're still on youtube.
 
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