Do you want the Main Character to have a personality/not silent?

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#1 Posted by Bocam (3751 posts) -


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#2 Posted by AlexanderSheen (5007 posts) -

What do you mean by personality? Even though he/she talks, I'm the one who chooses what he/she should say.

#3 Edited by Bocam (3751 posts) -

The best Persona games (story wise) had MCs with personalities. While Japanese fans have a strict view on this, I want to know how you guys think.

@AlexanderSheen said:

What do you mean by personality? Even though he/she talks, I'm the one who chooses what he/she should say.

By personality I mean the character is not just a self insert.

Online
#4 Edited by Hunter5024 (5683 posts) -

I certainly don't want them to give him (or her) a voice, though I feel like with their silent protagonists in the past that the dialogue options they gave you conveyed a lot of personality. This is really obvious when comparing Persona 3's male and female protagonists. The only reason Charlie gets a pass in the anime and the fighting game is because he's so deadpan that you could transpose whatever personality you want onto him anyways.

@Bocam said:

While Japanese fans have a strict view on this, I want to know how you guys think.

What are their views on it?

#5 Posted by Terramagi (1159 posts) -

They should be silent.

You can give them a personality without giving them a voice. The P3 dude had a "feel", just as Charles did.

Though the P3 dude ended up feeling like a fucking psycho to me. Never hangs out with anybody in his dorm is a guy, only sees girls until he fucks them, delicately handles social links in order to gain the most amount of power...

Y'know what, fuck that guy.

#6 Posted by Hunter5024 (5683 posts) -

@Terramagi said:

They should be silent.

You can give them a personality without giving them a voice. The P3 dude had a "feel", just as Charles did.

Though the P3 dude ended up feeling like a fucking psycho to me. Never hangs out with anybody in his dorm is a guy, only sees girls until he fucks them, delicately handles social links in order to gain the most amount of power...

Y'know what, fuck that guy.

Wait, isn't all of that stuff your fault?

#7 Posted by DeavonW (42 posts) -

If the protagonist is silent Id like for the game to give me dialogue options so that I can give him a character... charming sarcastic whatever. If the options are boring or everyone acts like you aren't even there I lose interest in the games story completely.

#8 Posted by Terramagi (1159 posts) -

@Hunter5024 said:

@Terramagi said:

They should be silent.

You can give them a personality without giving them a voice. The P3 dude had a "feel", just as Charles did.

Though the P3 dude ended up feeling like a fucking psycho to me. Never hangs out with anybody in his dorm is a guy, only sees girls until he fucks them, delicately handles social links in order to gain the most amount of power...

Y'know what, fuck that guy.

Wait, isn't all of that stuff your fault?

I'm not saying I maxed all the social links in a mad quest for power.

But I am saying he seemed AWFULLY agreeable.

#9 Edited by Terramagi (1159 posts) -

Though the "never hang out with anybody in his dorm who is a guy" part is totally legitimately in the game. The male SEES members straight up DID NOT HAVE social links until P3P... and even then, you could only access them on a female main character. Who STILL had social links with the female main characters.

#10 Posted by sungahymn (1009 posts) -

I don't see why you put C among the options. Lots of people are going to waste their vote on that because they think it's funny.

I think Atlus won't anger their fanbase nor spend money on something like voices for the MC, so B.

#11 Posted by Bocam (3751 posts) -

@Hunter5024 said:

@Bocam said:

While Japanese fans have a strict view on this, I want to know how you guys think.

What are their views on it?

They are the main character and the girls like them.

Online
#12 Posted by mutha3 (4985 posts) -

you know we are obliged to pick option 3, right.
 
 
Anyway, yeah, I would prefer a talking protagonist with a personality.

#13 Posted by wemibelec90 (1663 posts) -

I like the way it is currently. While there may be more opportunities for humor with a protagonist who speaks, there are plenty of funny moments because he/she cannot speak.

The one thing I would like added, however, is the option to choose a default name that all the characters will actually voice. I think that would be a terrific addition.

Online
#14 Posted by EquitasInvictus (2029 posts) -

I voted Charlie Tunoku out of reflex but in hindsight I would never take Persona 5 seriously that way.

I'm all for silent protagonist. It at least gives everyone the chance to build their MC in their image before they'll get ambitious with the canon and expand it into other media during which Atlus will inevitably force their own canon. Although a premeditated personality would make a smoother transition to additional media, I feel like they're obligated to let us have our silent protagonist!

#15 Posted by Lazyaza (2183 posts) -

I would like to see a jrpg do what Saint Row 3 did and give the player at least 6 distinct personality options dialogue wise but I assume most Japanese studios just don't have the budget for something like that.

#16 Posted by AlexanderSheen (5007 posts) -

If they can make the MC not to be an obnoxious asshole or an Ikari Shinji type, then I say sure.

#17 Edited by Hunter5024 (5683 posts) -

@Terramagi said:

Though the "never hang out with anybody in his dorm who is a guy" part is totally legitimately in the game. The male SEES members straight up DID NOT HAVE social links until P3P... and even then, you could only access them on a female main character. Who STILL had social links with the female main characters.

I blame the other members of SEES for that. Junpei thinks he's too cool for you, Akihiko won't make time for anyone but a girl, and Ken's too busy getting it on with high school chicks to worry about some dude he lives with.

@Bocam said:

@Hunter5024 said:

@Bocam said:

While Japanese fans have a strict view on this, I want to know how you guys think.

What are their views on it?

They are the main character and the girls like them.

Well let's not change that. A social link where you're trying to get with a girl you like, but she turns you down at every turn because she's completely disinterested and unnattracted to you would be too much like real life depressing.

#18 Posted by RedCream (705 posts) -

I prefer him voiced but I'll be the one choosing his dialogue ala Mass Effect or silent but the dialogue options are comprehensive ala DA:O.

#19 Posted by Seroth (719 posts) -

I think there's more charm in a silent protagonist, but I'm not gonna get mad if they give him a voice (unless it's really annoying). He already has a voice, anyway, since he'll sometimes shout the name of his Persona, which I think is a cool touch, even cooler when he doesn't say anything else in the game.

#20 Posted by mutha3 (4985 posts) -
@Hunter5024 said:

@Bocam said:

@Hunter5024 said:

@Bocam said:

While Japanese fans have a strict view on this, I want to know how you guys think.

What are their views on it?

They are the main character and the girls like them.

Well let's not change that. A social link where you're trying to get with a girl you like, but she turns you down at every turn because she's completely disinterested and unnattracted to you would be too much like real life depressing.

i would highly prefer that to being mary sue incarnate 
#21 Edited by ashogo (943 posts) -

Yes, the protagonist should have a personality. There is a way to give the character a personality while still allowing for a lot of personal choice, and with a voice I think there is more opportunity for the MC to form a connection with the other characters in the story.

Even though I was making choices in Persona 3 and 4, I never particularly felt like I was the main character anyways. He always felt like a distinctly separate personality from me, so I don't imagine adding voices would break my immersion at all.

#22 Posted by Terramagi (1159 posts) -

@Hunter5024 said:

@Terramagi said:

Though the "never hang out with anybody in his dorm who is a guy" part is totally legitimately in the game. The male SEES members straight up DID NOT HAVE social links until P3P... and even then, you could only access them on a female main character. Who STILL had social links with the female main characters.

I blame the other members of SEES for that. Junpei thinks he's too cool for you, Akihiko won't make time for anyone but a girl, and Ken's too busy getting it on with high school chicks to worry about some dude he lives with.

What about Koromaru?

Huh? Too good for the fucking dog, Minato? Man's best friend? Charles hung out with a drug slinging fox! You think you're too good for Koro-chan, motherfucker? HE HAS A KUNAI IN HIS MOUTH, HE WILL CUT YOU.

#23 Posted by EquitasInvictus (2029 posts) -

@mutha3 said:

@Hunter5024 said:

@Bocam said:

@Hunter5024 said:

@Bocam said:

While Japanese fans have a strict view on this, I want to know how you guys think.

What are their views on it?

They are the main character and the girls like them.

Well let's not change that. A social link where you're trying to get with a girl you like, but she turns you down at every turn because she's completely disinterested and unnattracted to you would be too much like real life depressing.

i would highly prefer that to being mary sue incarnate

That would actually be a really nice curveball for them to throw, aside from a homo love interest.

#24 Edited by ashogo (943 posts) -

@EquitasInvictus said:

@mutha3 said:

@Hunter5024 said:

@Bocam said:

@Hunter5024 said:

@Bocam said:

While Japanese fans have a strict view on this, I want to know how you guys think.

What are their views on it?

They are the main character and the girls like them.

Well let's not change that. A social link where you're trying to get with a girl you like, but she turns you down at every turn because she's completely disinterested and unnattracted to you would be too much like real life depressing.

i would highly prefer that to being mary sue incarnate

That would actually be a really nice curveball for them to throw, aside from a homo love interest.

This is why I thought Ai's social link was so interesting, because it didn't follow the traditional "meet girl, girl immediately falls for you, sleep with girl" path. Then again, I won't deny that there is a certain wish-fullfillment level of pleasure in every girl being into you. That said, they should mix it up in the next game. At least make it harder to pursue the girl that you like, not just, *point a finger*, 'you're mine'.

#25 Posted by Bocam (3751 posts) -

@EquitasInvictus said:

@mutha3 said:

@Hunter5024 said:

@Bocam said:

@Hunter5024 said:

@Bocam said:

While Japanese fans have a strict view on this, I want to know how you guys think.

What are their views on it?

They are the main character and the girls like them.

Well let's not change that. A social link where you're trying to get with a girl you like, but she turns you down at every turn because she's completely disinterested and unnattracted to you would be too much like real life depressing.

i would highly prefer that to being mary sue incarnate

That would actually be a really nice curveball for them to throw, aside from a homo love interest.

Persona 2 had a gay love interest.

I would like an S Link where you find out the girl/guy you like was fucking your best friend (ie Yosuke/Junpei) and then you throw them into a TV.

Online
#26 Posted by Hunter5024 (5683 posts) -

This thread got me thinking about how the whole theme of Persona is about the different Persona's you display around others, and discovering the identity you have beneath those facades. So while giving the main character a personality may create a narrative that allows those themes to be brought forward as a more central part of the story, I wonder if maybe sacrificing the ability for the player to choose the facades you exhibit during your interactions with people, may take away from the aspect of the narrative that makes it such an interesting game story rather than just an interesting story.

Also I think maybe you duders are overestimating what a playboy the MC was. You could just be friends with most of the girls. Maybe you shouldn't have played as such slutty guys?

@mutha3: How are you using the term Mary Sue? That means a lot of different things at this point.

#27 Posted by mutha3 (4985 posts) -
@Hunter5024 said:


@mutha3: How are you using the term Mary Sue? That means a lot of different things at this point.

A character with absolutely zero flaws, who excels at everything, is liked by everyone, is always morally right and never has to face consequences for anything he/she does ever, even if other characters do for doing the same thing.
 
(the closest thing to consequence there is in P4 is getting the bad ending. And that hardly counts.)
#28 Posted by Terramagi (1159 posts) -

@Hunter5024 said:

This thread got me thinking about how the whole theme of Persona is about the different Persona's you display around others, and discovering the identity you have beneath those facades. So while giving the main character a personality may create a narrative that allows those themes to be brought forward as a more central part of the story, I wonder if maybe sacrificing the ability for the player to choose the facades you exhibit during your interactions with people, may take away from the aspect of the narrative that makes it such an interesting game story rather than just an interesting story.

Also I think maybe you duders are overestimating what a playboy the MC was. You could just be friends with most of the girls. Maybe you shouldn't have played as such slutty guys?

@mutha3: How are you using the term Mary Sue? That means a lot of different things at this point.

Not in P3. You either had sex with EVERYBODY who didn't have a Y chromosome, or your social link stalled. P4 was the one with split S. Link trees.

#29 Posted by Hunter5024 (5683 posts) -

@mutha3: I guess if you use a walkthrough you're a Mary Sue? You can really piss off people in social links so that it takes a really long time for your relationships to grow, you can reverse the social links so that they don't want to hang out with you until you make it up to them, you can create a horrible situation for yourself by dating 2 girls at the same time, you can bomb all of the tests, you can say the wrong thing and be forever friend zoned, and I fail to see how the bad endings don't count.

If you make a hasty decision in 4 then a character dies, an innocent man is punished, and a murderer goes free, and it's all your fault. That's some consequence dude. And in Persona 3 you have a whole arc where Junpei can't stand you no matter what you say to him, and in the portable version if you don't spend enough time with a character and treat him right then you miss out on an opportunity to save his life.

@Terramagi: True, but they were still figuring out the whole social link system, and as it came from dating sims, and they fixed it in the sequel, I think we should forgive them for that.

#30 Posted by mutha3 (4985 posts) -
@Hunter5024 said:

@mutha3: I guess if you use a walkthrough you're a Mary Sue? You can really piss off people in social links so that it takes a really long time for your relationships to grow, you can reverse the social links so that they don't want to hang out with you until you make it up to them, you can create a horrible situation for yourself by dating 2 girls at the same time, you can bomb all of the tests, you can say the wrong thing and be forever friend zoned, and I fail to see how the bad endings don't count.


there is literally one S-link that can be reversed in P4, there are no consequences for 2-timing,  "bombing the tests" is harder to accomplish than acing them, and with the sole exception of Ai, getting friendzoned is nearly impossible since the game telegraphs it very clearly with 4 textboxes when you can enter a relationship. 
 
As for the spoiler: I guess. But the reason I said it doesn't count is because they need to have a bad ending. The Junpei thing is exactly what I want to see more of, though.
#31 Posted by Hunter5024 (5683 posts) -

@mutha3 said:

@Hunter5024 said:

@mutha3: I guess if you use a walkthrough you're a Mary Sue? You can really piss off people in social links so that it takes a really long time for your relationships to grow, you can reverse the social links so that they don't want to hang out with you until you make it up to them, you can create a horrible situation for yourself by dating 2 girls at the same time, you can bomb all of the tests, you can say the wrong thing and be forever friend zoned, and I fail to see how the bad endings don't count.


there is literally one S-link that can be reversed in P4, there are no consequences for 2-timing, "bombing the tests" is harder to accomplish than acing them, and with the sole exception of Ai, getting friendzoned is nearly impossible since the game telegraphs it very clearly with 4 textboxes when you can enter a relationship. As for the spoiler: I guess. But the reason I said it doesn't count is because they need to have a bad ending. The Junpei thing is exactly what I want to see more of, though.

They took out s-link reversal because people hated it, and we can hardly get mad at them for trying to please their fans, if you go out with two girls then they can meet up, get pissed at you, and force you to choose between them, and regardless of how hard it is to bomb a test having them in the game still brings a level of responsibility and consequence that must be maintained. I can see wanting to add a little more difficulty to the social aspect of the game, but claiming the character is a Mary Sue just because of the way you played isn't really fair. Though to be clear, I was actually joking about not wanting a shitty relationship s link. That could be pretty awesome.

#32 Posted by mutha3 (4985 posts) -
@Hunter5024 said:

@mutha3 said:

@Hunter5024 said:

@mutha3: I guess if you use a walkthrough you're a Mary Sue? You can really piss off people in social links so that it takes a really long time for your relationships to grow, you can reverse the social links so that they don't want to hang out with you until you make it up to them, you can create a horrible situation for yourself by dating 2 girls at the same time, you can bomb all of the tests, you can say the wrong thing and be forever friend zoned, and I fail to see how the bad endings don't count.


there is literally one S-link that can be reversed in P4, there are no consequences for 2-timing, "bombing the tests" is harder to accomplish than acing them, and with the sole exception of Ai, getting friendzoned is nearly impossible since the game telegraphs it very clearly with 4 textboxes when you can enter a relationship. As for the spoiler: I guess. But the reason I said it doesn't count is because they need to have a bad ending. The Junpei thing is exactly what I want to see more of, though.

They took out s-link reversal because people hated it, and we can hardly get mad at them for trying to please their fans,

I can :/


if you go out with two girls then they can meet up, get pissed at you, and force you to choose between them, 

 
Which amounts to "you either get 2 S-link notes explode out of  this girl's head or this girl"
 
This is actually a prime example of MC's mary-sueishness, thanks for bringing it up. Any other male character, and both girls would never speak with him again, call him a POS and he would get a bad reputation around school.
 
Not the wonderful self insert-kun, though. The incident gets shrugged off and nothing ever comes of it. This is what truely makes him a Mary Sue, and that's what I refer to when I say "No consequences"
 
@Hunter5024 said:

I can see wanting to add a little more difficulty to the social aspect of the game, but claiming the character is a Mary Sue just because of the way you played isn't really fair. Though to be clear, I was actually joking about not wanting a shitty relationship s link. That could be pretty awesome.

Persona 4 incentives me to play that way. There is NO benefit for not acing your tests and doing so is insultingly easy. 
 
The only thing I'll give you is that you don't have to be a complete slut if you don't want to be.....but it sure doesn't change the fact that every girl in the game has a crush on you.
#33 Posted by PenguinDust (12517 posts) -

@RedCream said:

I prefer him voiced but I'll be the one choosing his dialogue ala Mass Effect...

This. It doesn't have to be an either silent protagonist or pre-written hero choice. It would take more time to record all the dialogue, but it's certainly feasible to store it all on a PS3 blu-ray. There has to be a way to keep the conversations flowing more fluidly than the current "Press X to advance to the next page". I want to hear him talk, but I want to be able to pick if he says yes, no or maybe.

Having said that, I'd trade a talking MC for the ability to pick between a male or female one as in P3P.

#34 Posted by juice8367 (443 posts) -

Voice acting would be nice

#35 Posted by Hunter5024 (5683 posts) -

@mutha3: Well if that's how they handled two timing in p4 then you may have a point, though I can't really argue one way or the other because I only had eyes for Rise so it never happened to me. Also I think its important to make the distinction between every girl having a crush on you and every girl being capable of developing feelings for you. Rise has a crush on you no matter what, but unless I went out of my way to choose a dialogue option that brought it up none of the other characters showed any such feelings. While it is unrealistic for you to be capable of being with any girl, I think the game would suffer if they limited your love interest options. Plus I still think calling the MCs Mary Sues is pretty unwarranted if you take into account the bad endings, p3's social link reversal, Ai, and Junpei. But I guess we should probably just agree to disagree at this point.

#36 Posted by AlexanderSheen (5007 posts) -

@PenguinDust said:

@RedCream said:

I prefer him voiced but I'll be the one choosing his dialogue ala Mass Effect...

This. It doesn't have to be an either silent protagonist or pre-written hero choice. It would take more time to record all the dialogue, but it's certainly feasible to store it all on a PS3 blu-ray. There has to be a way to keep the conversations flowing more fluidly than the current "Press X to advance to the next page". I want to hear him talk, but I want to be able to pick if he says yes, no or maybe.

Having said that, I'd trade a talking MC for the ability to pick between a male or female one as in P3P.

How about Alpha Protocol instead of Mass Effect. You choose the tone of the next dialoge the MC gonna say while there is a timer ticking. In this case, there would be fluidity, options and voice acting at the same time.

#37 Posted by mutha3 (4985 posts) -
@Hunter5024: When you compliment any of the girls, they're always blushing and stammering like they have a speech impediment in any of the various "hilarious" scenes where they get in bikinis. Meanwhile Yosuke gets a "shut up".
 
I think you just had Rise tunnel-vision:P
#38 Posted by RedCream (705 posts) -

@AlexanderSheen said:

@PenguinDust said:

@RedCream said:

I prefer him voiced but I'll be the one choosing his dialogue ala Mass Effect...

This. It doesn't have to be an either silent protagonist or pre-written hero choice. It would take more time to record all the dialogue, but it's certainly feasible to store it all on a PS3 blu-ray. There has to be a way to keep the conversations flowing more fluidly than the current "Press X to advance to the next page". I want to hear him talk, but I want to be able to pick if he says yes, no or maybe.

Having said that, I'd trade a talking MC for the ability to pick between a male or female one as in P3P.

How about Alpha Protocol instead of Mass Effect. You choose the tone of the next dialoge the MC gonna say while there is a timer ticking. In this case, there would be fluidity, options and voice acting at the same time.

Yeah that would work better plus to make it more ambitious your MC's dialogue decisions should have meaningful effect on the main story or at least on that particular social link you are working on. That would add infinite replayability if the social links have branching paths.

#39 Edited by CottonWolf (89 posts) -

I think that voiced female MC would be a nice way of shaking up the series. If they did it like they did with Vincent in Catherine it would still allow you to feel some degree of control. Most of the control that persona games give you is just slight of hand anyway; changing the next few lines of dialogue rather than the story, except for a few heavily signposted branching choices.

#40 Posted by SpartanHoplite (384 posts) -

sometimes its just better to shut up, ie. Isaac in DS2.

#41 Edited by Phatmac (5726 posts) -

The MC NEEDS a voice, badly. I hate silent protagonists and I don't ever feel connected to my character. I'd rather have an MC that has a voice and is actually a person in the game than my own personality in a character. I'll be disappointed if the next Persona game doesn't have a fully voiced MC.

#42 Posted by ImmortalSaiyan (4676 posts) -

Either if it is done well.

#43 Posted by Chalian (216 posts) -

keep him silent

#44 Posted by Video_Game_King (36272 posts) -

Oddly enough, characters can have a personality and still be totally silent. At least that's how Innocent Sin worked. (On that note: BRING BACK CONTACTS.)

#45 Posted by Bocam (3751 posts) -

@Video_Game_King said:

Oddly enough, characters can have a personality and still be totally silent. At least that's how Innocent Sin worked. (On that note: BRING BACK CONTACTS.)

They give him a voice in Eternal Punishment. Also they can't bring back contacts as Shadows are not Demons. (Even though there's a demon named Shadow)

Online
#46 Posted by Video_Game_King (36272 posts) -

@Bocam:

To be fair, he does have a voice in Innocent Sin. But I'm assuming you mean he actually speaks and stuff outside choices and contacts.

#47 Posted by Bocam (3751 posts) -

@Video_Game_King said:

@Bocam:

But I'm assuming you mean he actually speaks and stuff outside choices and contacts.

This. Maya goes silent in EP

Online
#48 Posted by Video_Game_King (36272 posts) -

@Bocam:

Does that mean she's the sexy one this time around?

#49 Posted by Sweep (8859 posts) -

I want it to be persona 4, except not.

Moderator
#50 Posted by Bocam (3751 posts) -

@Video_Game_King: Maybe

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