/FFX / FFIV / etc?

Having immersed myself in the P5 announcement stuff and seeing the twitch / forums communities, I continue to be annoyed by the constant back and forth between what seems like two camps of fans. They are both fantastic games, and taking jabs at either one is pretty stupid considering they have vastly different tones and it's like asking if someone likes Pizza or Burgers more.

I mean, if push comes to shove, sure, I can say without doubt that I like Persona 4 more - but a lot of that comes down to many of the refinements they made to the series. Examples being the fact that your party forms the core of your social links rather than kinda just being there alongside other social links or in general hard to connect with (Mitsuru is an excellent example of this) - or the fact that in P3 you can't really raise social links with the opposite sex without forming a romantic relationship with them.

That's not even touching on the gameplay improvements like (and I'm specifically pointing to Golden here) - being able to distill Skill Cards, choose your inheritance (no more circle, x, circle, x, circle, x, circle, x to get effing Victory Cry, Auto-Matarukaja and Arms Master onto Yoshitsune), getting tired via entering the dungeon (I hated this system and celebrated its removal with P3P)...

Then again, Giant Bomb, its community, and my connection to the characters themselves is the real reason I love P4 - and it's the one I played first. Herein lies my query

Do people (including myself) just love their first of the new-generation (post 1/2) Persona games?

Is this just like the "your first final fantasy" theory?

Why do you like one more than the other?

in any case, half an hour till some hopefully solid details about P5...

I don't think so, my brother played 4 first but loves 3 way more. He played the vanilla 3, the PSP and FES versions. While he only played 4 once, didn't even get the true ending and never touched it again.

For myself, I played and loved the hell out of 4, but thought 3 was boring as hell for the 10 hours or so I put into it.

Whilst I've never played Persona, FF12 is my fave FF and I played 7 first so that theory sounds dumb to me. Hope this helps?

I played 3 first, and I definetly have more of an attachment to it than 4. But I can still recognize how 4 improved a lot of things from 3. It's kind of like with Mass Effect for me. I love the first one the most, but I can see how the sequels improved upon certain aspects.

No because both FF7 and 8 are garbage while P3 and 4 are two of the best games ever made.

I like them both equally. Persona 3s overall arc is much better as are the non party member social links while Persona 4 has the best party members (except Yosuke, fuck that guy) and the gameplay is significantly improved.

btw It's quite easy to avoid romance flags in P3 and the romance options aren't the ones that give you the most points.

Love em both, just like FF7 and 8, but I'd always prefer P4 and FF7 for the same reasons: I liked the characters in those more.

@corevi: Yeah, I tend to more-frequently-than-not accidentally hit on every chick in P3. No clue why, especially as I didn't find any of their characters overly compelling other than maybe Fuuka, but by that point I'd already started dating Yukari.

Man, I hope they put out a golden-esque update to 3, I'd like to take a crack at doing a 100% s-link run with better fusion mechanics and stuff.

EDIT: was going to reply to more but OMG ITS TIME!!

Well, if it is between FF 7 or 8 I'll go with 9. If this is any indication I can't wait for P5. Seriously I liked P3 way better than P4. Too much high school drama and anime stuff in that latter one. Sure the MC in P3 is a total emo but the overall tone of the game fits the SMT mold better than the "power of love & friendship" stuff in P4. I say all of this as someone who is mainly in to the main SMT games due to their simplistic stories but great atmosphere and setting.

They did, twice. FES and Portable both changed a lot of things and added completely new modes.

Well Persona 4 is a refined version of 3. So technically it's a better game, but I still think I like 3 more partly because it came first so its more special. It's innovation versus execution.

In the way that the earlier ones were superior, sure.

Oh, I've played both FES and Portable, I specifically did in fact mean the fusion mechanics though - I can't go back to random fusions :(

Oh, and having it sharper (PS2 / PSP is still the only way to view P3) and widescreen, preferably with the original visuals rather than the arrow thing from P3P... All in all, P3 Platinum is a rumour I can totally get behind.

persona 3 & 4 are like final fantasy 7 & 8 in the fact that they're most peoples first game in the series and they don't bother playing the ones that came before even though they're much better. except final fantasy 2 and the original persona

No.

Yes.

@lionslinden: agreed with all of this

I played P3FES first, and I enjoy that game more than P4. Both are great, and I do think that P4 plays much better than P3. The game mechanics and combat are certainly more refined in P4 (though I'm a proponent of the party AI system), and the S. Links are handled much better as well. I much prefer the story of P3FES, however. I like that the characters in P3 are thrown together by circumstance and have to deal with each other while having their own agendas. P4 resorts to the much more common, "Hey, we just met, but now we will all be the best of friends and fight for Justice!" sort of video game story. Also, I think the characters themselves generally more interesting in P3FES. I think the big difference for most people is that P3 is a drama and P4 is a comedy. Yes, there are some legitimately funny parts of P3, and there are some serious parts to P4, but the overall themes of the game are very different.

I played P3FES when it first came out but only made it to the end of June I think before I quit. I picked it up again a couple months ago and made a bit farther but ultimately just bought a PSTV and P4G and played through that entire thing in a month. So I'd say it's less about which one you played first and more the fact that tonally the games are completely different. I vastly preferred the music, story pacing, and even the general color scheme of 4 much more but that's just my preference. Disregarding the dramatic gameplay improvements between P3FES and P4G especially I think P3 is probably just as good of a game, and the story probably goes to some incredible places, but it just didn't grab me.

My first Final Fantasy was the original on the NES, and my favorite is VI, so that theory is a little bunk.

Persona 3 is less refined that Persona 4, but it's also more original. Before I get attacked, I mean that Persona 3 is more original for creating the modern Persona format, and basically making the Persona series more than just a spin-off of SMT that the first two Personas were. Persona 4, however, took all the gameplay of P3 and made it better, such as being able to control your party members in battle.

What it really comes down to is which cast of characters and story you like more. Which one you played first might have a bit of an effect here, but to hate one because you like the other is stupid. They're both great games.

I played 4 first and then played 3 and thought it was way better.

I played Persona 3 before Persona 4 and I do like P3 more than P4. I still think 4 is a better game due to the combat changes and such, but I have more attachment to 3 because I liked the atmosphere of that game a bit more. It certainly had pacing problems when it felt like you were just waiting for the next full moon, but I loved how you saw more and more people with Apathy Syndrome as time went on and things like that. I think the tone change in the last month of 3 hit me much more than 4, because it really felt like things were changing for the worse and the music from January in that game is some of my favorite in any game ever.

No, FF7 and 8 are wildly different in how they play, the focus of their story, and their aesthetic. Persona 3 and 4 have basically the same gameplay (minus some improvements to P4's combat), similar art, and similar themes. The largest difference between the two games is tone and some of the plot points. FF7 and 8 are very different games that appeal to different audiences for a bunch of reasons, while P3 and 4 are mostly divisive for story reasons.

Agreed. Played FF7 first and think FF12 is the best (of the ones I've played). Played P4 first, then P3P, then P2IS and think P2IS is best, so the whichever was played first theory is junk in my opinion.

I think the comparison doesn't exactly work as more people tend to be more familiar and were more wowed by FFVII first, while most people I know got into the Persona series through 4 (this was different years back, I remember P3 coming out and wowing people as well).

Played and beat 4. Played 3 FES and couldn't finish it.

I know what you're trying to say but no; 4 is categorically better than 3 across the board. People who play 3 first and say 3 is better are, well... they're just plain wrong!

Also, FF6 > Any other Final Fantasy, but FF6 was definitely not my first Final Fantasy.

The only personal example I can think of is Demon's Souls. Dark Souls is probably the better video game, but that first Souls experience will always be my favorite.

I'm a Persona universe person, I'm not interested in having a discussion about 3 vs. 4, I'm only interested in discussing 3, 4 & 5 as a whole.

I think Persona 3 had more style, but 4 has the more interesting people in it. Going from 3 straight into 4, it was weird how one game had me saving the world from shadows, while 4 had you solve a murder mystery

I'm basing this off P3P and P4G.

I think 4 is better than 3 because they improved on what they had in 3. I prefer the mechanics of 4, the fusion system refinements and that the group interact with each other a lot more. I think the pacing of the story in 4 is a lot smoother than 3 which has large sections of nothing happening. But I don't think 4 makes 3 look bad at all. 3 is a great game, its just that they took a great game and then improved parts of it with 4.

How dare you

Persona 2 is secretly better than both of them

(mostly because of the strength of it's story, playing persona 2 is like pulling teeth most of the time)

4's a much better game IMO, storywise and gameplay wise. The Tartarus exploration in 3 is such a drag and it really hurts that game I think. The exploration in 4 is the same system but at least the environments change and it isn't always hanging over you like Tartarus is.

3 has a really cool last month though and some good characters even though the "dead parent syndrome" they all seem to have kind of annoyed me.

Weird comparison since FF8 was a step backwards in all departments aside from graphics. P4 improved many aspects sure. But you realize you can buy P3 FES and just play "the journey" and benefit from basically all of the major improvements and then just not bother with "the answer". P3 is the better plot, and the better cast. Yes it starts slower, but it is still the superior Persona if you ask me. Not to say that P4 sucks, it doesn't, still better than the vast majority of JRPG's.

Just play both games and decide which one you like better, don't try to join the discussion or justify the (stupid) opinions of others nor their weird circle jerk interactions regarding whichever game (most obviously the Souls community right now)

But if you have any interest in in the P3 story, you owe it to yourself to at least Youtube the cutscenes for The Answer. As much as everyone that plays it seems to hate Yukari, I think she may be the best example of a character truly developing over the course of a game(including The Journey) and the events that happen within. Also, Aigis is great and is the actual main character of all P3 anyway.

I played 3 first but love 4 more. I don't like the story in 3 as much. Especially since it is poorly paced.

Not to get stuck on semantics, but, how could they conceivably be the same at all, in any sense?

If you mean "people disagree about them" then yeah. They are identical.

I don't really feel like that analogy works in any possible way. I played P3 first but I like P4 better. But FFVII and and FFXIII are both more radically different games, and thus preference really has little to do with minor gameplay refinements. Also, I think FFVII and FFVIII are both pretty mediocre Final Fantasy games. Final Fantasy IX is the only one I hold in especially high regard and I didn't play that first.

The gameplay refinements in P4 are nice, but in the end it's mostly the characters that push it ahead of P3.

The story in Persona 3 always felt like a high concept soap opera to me, which seemed a bit at odds with the high school drama aspect (which is really what I come to the games for). The characters are better (especially Ken, who is the best character in either of the two games), but their character arcs felt a little too melodramatic to be believable.

It's the same thing that worries me a bit about the P5 trailer - the basic conflict in P4 was grounded enough that it made the character beats matter, and while it evolves into something bigger, a series of murders in Inaba is pretty small time compared to the apocalyptic scenario presented in P3. From watching the trailer, it seems like they're trying to strike a balance between the two, so hopefully they can pull it off.

For me the characters in P3 were all completely intolerable, to the point that they drove me away far more than the gameplay differences between it and 4. I respect that there are people who feel differently about the characters but it is still a mystery why a few people here and there seem to insist it is mechanically superior. Nobody in this thread is doing that, mind, it's just something I've encountered repeatedly.

They're similar in a number of ways. Both pairs are from very respected franchises, arguably franchises that defined the JRPG at various points in their lifespans. In both pairs, both entrants are very well-regarded generally but within the fanbase they are divisive for their small differences. Both pairs are defined by their character sets and the quality of the component games' writing. The comparison is far from unreasonable.

@crembaw: To be fair, there are actually a couple things I still think the original P3 was mechanically superior in. Like having the 3 different physical types and being able to freely switch the MC's weapon to accomodate it. I actually like that game's tired mechanic too, and I was actually super bummed they nerfed it with each rerelease. (To the point of irrelevance in P3P.) Also the original P3 is the only one that had working AI tactics. It's great that later games let you control characters manually, but there were advantages to being able to just issue general AI commands, but they took out basically all of the ones that were actually were using in P4 and P3P.

I played Persona 3 FES first and like it more than Persona 4. That is not to say I do not like Persona 4 though. This is off topic, but I actually dislike anything else Shin Megami Tensei related so I'm glad Persona is ditching that label/connection (at least on the surface).

So edgy...so dark.

Anyways ther isn't a debate because P4 more or less blows P3 out of the water. P3 isn't bad at all, but P4 was just way better in most ways. In regards to FFVII and FFVIII, that franchise is way more polarizing. FFVII will always get hate (to the point where I'd argue it's actually underrated instead of over like people think). I don't think it's really a good comparison.

I've got a P3P and P4G game both going on right now, and while the look and overall feel of P4G is a little better (especially in terms of the interface improvements they made) and I've got more memories of P4 (mostly courtesy of the Endurance Run), I've been having a blast playing P3P (with a female protagonist, because why wouldn't I?). P3P does take a bit longer to get going (I mean you can't even register Personae until the first month has gone by! I thought the ability to register just didn't exist for a while!), but I've had a hell of a lot of fun playing it and think it maintains its own sensibilities.

Plus the P3P soundtrack in particular is fucking great.

I haven't done it yet because I'm lazy, but I'm real close to making this my phone alarm.

I've played both but played 3 first. At first I thought I liked 4 more but after replaying 3 I can say for sure that I vastly prefer 3 more. Persona 4 fixes a lot of what was wrong with 3 and it has better characters that I really care about. Persona 3 however has the better story. I really like how dark and doom and gloom the story of 3 is. Everything in 3 just feels more dire compared to 4 and the stakes in 3 are much higher then they are in 4, I mean at some point in 3 you are faced with the task of killing something that just can't be killed and not only that but the characters are given a choice that is pretty much just them choosing how they want to die. That's the kind of heavy story 4 doesn't have. There isn't really any real world ending threat in 4 like there is in 3.

I also feel like 3 has the better soundtrack. I like 4's soundtrack a lot but to me 3's is just so much better, from the music that plays in the dorm to Mass Destruction (the battle music) 3 is packed with so many songs that are constantly stuck in my head years after I've beaten the game.

p3 and p4 are very similar games gameplay wise but have very different style. one is dark and one is a lot lighter. its just personal preference. the endurance run also sways a lot of people.

I think im still overall a p3 person but I like both pretty equally.

I prefer P3 all around, not just story/characters, but also gameplay.

For one, not being able to control the other characters was a plus. It made me feel more like I am the MC and not an overseer. Also I may not be remembering correctly, but I think P4 made it so enemies that critical the player can't chain attacks like they could in P3. Both these two characteristics of P3 presented more a challenge in taking the unforeseeable near future into consideration. I believe P3P adopted some of P4 gameplay mechanics, which is why I was never interested.

I have not played either FF7/FF8. Which is the P3 of the two (or did I misunderstand the topic title)?

By FFVII vs FFVIII, I'm referencing an argument made by many that describes why people defend either game so vehemently - they postulate that people's first final fantasy is frequently their favourite, especially when those two games came out, and that is what has lead to so many arguments between them.

They don't transcribe to eachother, but rather pose the question of "do we like these games because of reasons or because we played one before the other and that has coloured our perceptions?"

Thanks everyone for the responses thus far! I'm happy to have struck an interesting conversation, though it seems that most here agree that it's tone rather than time. I can't really tell myself, I don't know what it would have been like if I had played 3 before 4.

What's that? Best song in the soundtrack you say? Don't mind if I do.

Ah I see. Well if I played P4 before P3, I would for sure still pick P3 for the story. As for gameplay, hard to say if I'd still be in support of the added "difficulty" of P3 mechanics. If I started off with the simpler battle system of P4, I may not be able to appreciate the benefits of P3's battle system that I mentioned above.

I've never played either FF7 or 8, but I don't think its the same with persona. I mean, I love the hell out of both and idk if I could pick a fav (4 plays better, but they do different things and both well).I just really like them both as a thing. fwiw I never actually played 4, just watched the ER, but I did play 3 FES and loved it. (Well, not so much the combat but thats not whats good about those games anyhow)