Playstation controller conspiracy

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#101 Edited by mrpandaman (866 posts) -

Dear @egg

Egg, do you actually know anything about how controllers are made and how they interface with consoles? No? Then learn. You are not some bright flower of a mind that has discovered some grand conspiracy, but rather just an ignorant person who has found some anomaly and thinks it's a sign of the apocalypse. It's like idiots that don't bother to learn ballistics and rocket science before calling the moon landings a hoax.

The reality is much simpler, but technically complex.

First, the PS4 controller, besides having a bunch of different buttons and features, has also changed things considerably.

You already said the PS2 and 3 controller had pressure sensitive buttons. But did you know that the pressure sensitivity is gone from the DS4?

Did you also know that they're using very different, and much more precise motion sensors in the DS4?

Remember that they announced a speaker in the DS4? Also a port for a headset?

Did you also know that the DS3 controller was already pushing the bandwidth limits for a wireless signal with the PS3, one of the reasons of which was the pressure sensitivity? They also had to change the way the data is sent and handled to accomodate all the new things. Now they have higher resolution motion sensor data to send back, as well touchpad input, the upstream bandwidth opened up by killing the pressure sensitive buttons allowed for that. But now there's a lot of downstream data that needs transferring like in-controller speaker output, headset input/output, lightbar information, and newer rumble feedback.

Sure, the touchpad is a gimimck, but that doesn't mean the whole hasn't made a drastic technical change over the previous.

All these things add up to a significant change in the controller. Also, one of the reasons why you buy consoles is that with each generation, you just buy the system and its controllers, and that's it. You don't have to worry about odd system configurations, or sloppy developers forgetting to support one thing or another. The developers get the benefit of knowing exactly what hardware they're dealing with, and can make games that make the best use of that hardware. If they allowed the PS3 controller on the PS4, that solidarity of platform is broken by developers having to fiddle around for players that stubbornly use older controllers without the proper features.

Sorry, but I'd rather have the headset plugged into the controller, a small speaker to get player specific cues, and other functionality like split screen adjustment based off the controller lightbars.

What you're asking is for developers to gut features from their game, and for gamers to lose out on useful or interesting new features just because you can't be bothered to buy a $50-$60 controller for your $400 - $500 game console. Oh wait, you don't need to buy one because one comes with the system, and I severely doubt anyone will be playing with you on the couch.

Sincerely,

@vertrucio

I like how the OP avoided this answer, which is probably the best answer here. I love it when someone writes a good answer like this and the OP ignores it because he can't refute it or come up with an argument against it.

#102 Edited by DpwnShift (7 posts) -

@mrpandaman:

Dear @egg

Egg, do you actually know anything about how controllers are made and how they interface with consoles? No? Then learn. You are not some bright flower of a mind that has discovered some grand conspiracy, but rather just an ignorant person who has found some anomaly and thinks it's a sign of the apocalypse. It's like idiots that don't bother to learn ballistics and rocket science before calling the moon landings a hoax.

The reality is much simpler, but technically complex.

First, the PS4 controller, besides having a bunch of different buttons and features, has also changed things considerably.

You already said the PS2 and 3 controller had pressure sensitive buttons. But did you know that the pressure sensitivity is gone from the DS4?

Did you also know that they're using very different, and much more precise motion sensors in the DS4?

Remember that they announced a speaker in the DS4? Also a port for a headset?

Did you also know that the DS3 controller was already pushing the bandwidth limits for a wireless signal with the PS3, one of the reasons of which was the pressure sensitivity? They also had to change the way the data is sent and handled to accomodate all the new things. Now they have higher resolution motion sensor data to send back, as well touchpad input, the upstream bandwidth opened up by killing the pressure sensitive buttons allowed for that. But now there's a lot of downstream data that needs transferring like in-controller speaker output, headset input/output, lightbar information, and newer rumble feedback.

Sure, the touchpad is a gimimck, but that doesn't mean the whole hasn't made a drastic technical change over the previous.

All these things add up to a significant change in the controller. Also, one of the reasons why you buy consoles is that with each generation, you just buy the system and its controllers, and that's it. You don't have to worry about odd system configurations, or sloppy developers forgetting to support one thing or another. The developers get the benefit of knowing exactly what hardware they're dealing with, and can make games that make the best use of that hardware. If they allowed the PS3 controller on the PS4, that solidarity of platform is broken by developers having to fiddle around for players that stubbornly use older controllers without the proper features.

Sorry, but I'd rather have the headset plugged into the controller, a small speaker to get player specific cues, and other functionality like split screen adjustment based off the controller lightbars.

What you're asking is for developers to gut features from their game, and for gamers to lose out on useful or interesting new features just because you can't be bothered to buy a $50-$60 controller for your $400 - $500 game console. Oh wait, you don't need to buy one because one comes with the system, and I severely doubt anyone will be playing with you on the couch.

Sincerely,

@vertrucio

I like how the OP avoided this answer, which is probably the best answer here. I love it when someone writes a good answer like this and the OP ignores it because he can't refute it or come up with an argument against it.

Agreed.

#103 Posted by subyman (647 posts) -

I'm pretty sure I heard one of the execs say they were using a newer wireless tech that had lower power usage. I don't really care, the new controller is supposed to be awesome. I never liked the PS3 controller.

#104 Posted by egg (1469 posts) -

PS4 could have launched with PS All Stars.. and it would be the best version because you would have one more controller than before. (in addition to exclusive content, new characters) Take that, Killer Instinct!

#105 Posted by Rowr (5824 posts) -

This is you're first console cycle isn't it......Welcome to being 14.

There are many things you will learn about the world in the next 5-10 years.

#106 Edited by sliverbat (1 posts) -

This is how you innovate, the PS4 controller is the most stand out Playstation controller to date and virtually all of it's functions can be productive so they are much more than a "gimmick" they serve a true purpose; I don't think you need much of an imagination to figure that out. Ergonomically the PS4 controller is truly up to date. PS1-3 controller had a 10 year old structure in competition with others and that's saying a lot..

#107 Edited by egg (1469 posts) -

@rowr said:

This is you're first console cycle isn't it......Welcome to being 14.

There are many things you will learn about the world in the next 5-10 years.

Technology changes.. gaming changes too or at least it should.

Funny you say 14, I think everyone else is acting immature about this, so if anything everyone else is being 14. Things like console generations, Nintendo vs Sega vs Sony, are just stereotypes anyway, and the concept of them are becoming increasingly dated.

Concepts (such as console gens) exist because they have a purpose but what purposes does lack of controller backward compatibility serve, today?

Controllers weren't compatible before because it required specialized controller parts, and the controllers merely traditionally differed from gen to gen, console to console, but not really anymore because controller evolution has practically ended, this is blatantly made clear by the fact that Xbox 360, Xbox One, and PS3 (and I would have said PS4 but apparently I'm wrong, eh?) have the exact same controller aside from ergonomics.

At what point are we gonna ask for our controllers to be compatible? Now is a really good time. PS3 controllers are WIRELESS. They are BY SONY expressly made to be used to play a Playstation system.

#108 Posted by theninjamonke (31 posts) -

I'm waiting for the inevitable point when EA teams up with Microsoft to make the ultimate microtransaction. A controller that runs on coins and requires you to pay per use. I'm sure they would market it as bringing the old school arcade experience into the home or some such thing too.

Ermmmmmmm.... Quarters have to be collected, so how would they make ANY money off of making a complicated controller that they would have to go to your house, unlock, and collect the quarters from? But I think they might do something like that with credit cards.

#109 Posted by egg (1469 posts) -

This is how you innovate, the PS4 controller is the most stand out Playstation controller to date

How do you know that?

I have pattern recognition, this is the third time Sony is doing this. Pressure sensitive buttons failed, sixaxis was neglected, rumble was thought so unimportant that it was cut for sixaxis, WiiU has a tablet screen and even then few games are finding meaningful uses for it. Xbox One is not adding a touchpad to their controller. Gamecube shoulder buttons came and went.

Will touchpad be used in meaningful ways? I don't know, maybe it will in a few cases. But that's not the point. It won't though.

"Ergonomically the PS4 controller is truly up to date."

PS4 and Xbox one have different controllers ergonomically. So that tells me obviously it has nothing to do with ergonomics.

Actually I am honestly wondering why neither Sony NOR Microsoft is copying the others' controller and releasing it separately. You'd think that between the two of them, one of them would come up with this idea, and just dominate.

#110 Posted by Nictel (2429 posts) -

@mrpandaman:

@mrpandaman said:

Dear @egg

Egg, do you actually know anything about how controllers are made and how they interface with consoles? No? Then learn. You are not some bright flower of a mind that has discovered some grand conspiracy, but rather just an ignorant person who has found some anomaly and thinks it's a sign of the apocalypse. It's like idiots that don't bother to learn ballistics and rocket science before calling the moon landings a hoax.

The reality is much simpler, but technically complex.

First, the PS4 controller, besides having a bunch of different buttons and features, has also changed things considerably.

You already said the PS2 and 3 controller had pressure sensitive buttons. But did you know that the pressure sensitivity is gone from the DS4?

Did you also know that they're using very different, and much more precise motion sensors in the DS4?

Remember that they announced a speaker in the DS4? Also a port for a headset?

Did you also know that the DS3 controller was already pushing the bandwidth limits for a wireless signal with the PS3, one of the reasons of which was the pressure sensitivity? They also had to change the way the data is sent and handled to accomodate all the new things. Now they have higher resolution motion sensor data to send back, as well touchpad input, the upstream bandwidth opened up by killing the pressure sensitive buttons allowed for that. But now there's a lot of downstream data that needs transferring like in-controller speaker output, headset input/output, lightbar information, and newer rumble feedback.

Sure, the touchpad is a gimimck, but that doesn't mean the whole hasn't made a drastic technical change over the previous.

All these things add up to a significant change in the controller. Also, one of the reasons why you buy consoles is that with each generation, you just buy the system and its controllers, and that's it. You don't have to worry about odd system configurations, or sloppy developers forgetting to support one thing or another. The developers get the benefit of knowing exactly what hardware they're dealing with, and can make games that make the best use of that hardware. If they allowed the PS3 controller on the PS4, that solidarity of platform is broken by developers having to fiddle around for players that stubbornly use older controllers without the proper features.

Sorry, but I'd rather have the headset plugged into the controller, a small speaker to get player specific cues, and other functionality like split screen adjustment based off the controller lightbars.

What you're asking is for developers to gut features from their game, and for gamers to lose out on useful or interesting new features just because you can't be bothered to buy a $50-$60 controller for your $400 - $500 game console. Oh wait, you don't need to buy one because one comes with the system, and I severely doubt anyone will be playing with you on the couch.

Sincerely,

@vertrucio

I like how the OP avoided this answer, which is probably the best answer here. I love it when someone writes a good answer like this and the OP ignores it because he can't refute it or come up with an argument against it.

Agreed.

Just quoting until response.

@egg said:

@sliverbat said:

This is how you innovate, the PS4 controller is the most stand out Playstation controller to date

How do you know that?

I have pattern recognition, this is the third time Sony is doing this. Pressure sensitive buttons failed, sixaxis was neglected, rumble was thought so unimportant that it was cut for sixaxis, WiiU has a tablet screen and even then few games are finding meaningful uses for it. Xbox One is not adding a touchpad to their controller. Gamecube shoulder buttons came and went.

Will touchpad be used in meaningful ways? I don't know, maybe it will in a few cases. But that's not the point. It won't though.

"Ergonomically the PS4 controller is truly up to date."

PS4 and Xbox one have different controllers ergonomically. So that tells me obviously it has nothing to do with ergonomics.

Actually I am honestly wondering why neither Sony NOR Microsoft is copying the others' controller and releasing it separately. You'd think that between the two of them, one of them would come up with this idea, and just dominate.

1: You are wrong again. The rumble was cut because of patent issues. They only choose to not say that and instead come up with the worst explanation.

2: Shoulder buttons came and went? Really? You can't find them anywhere any more?

3: Yeah you would also think companies would have come up with a single tv, phone or car to dominate... There are multiple solutions and options to the same thing.

#111 Posted by Jensonb (1758 posts) -

That's a pretty stupid theory.

#112 Posted by egg (1469 posts) -

@nictel said:

@dpwnshift said:

@mrpandaman:

@mrpandaman said:

Dear @egg

Egg, do you actually know anything about how controllers are made and how they interface with consoles? No? Then learn. You are not some bright flower of a mind that has discovered some grand conspiracy, but rather just an ignorant person who has found some anomaly and thinks it's a sign of the apocalypse. It's like idiots that don't bother to learn ballistics and rocket science before calling the moon landings a hoax.

The reality is much simpler, but technically complex.

First, the PS4 controller, besides having a bunch of different buttons and features, has also changed things considerably.

You already said the PS2 and 3 controller had pressure sensitive buttons. But did you know that the pressure sensitivity is gone from the DS4?

Did you also know that they're using very different, and much more precise motion sensors in the DS4?

Remember that they announced a speaker in the DS4? Also a port for a headset?

Did you also know that the DS3 controller was already pushing the bandwidth limits for a wireless signal with the PS3, one of the reasons of which was the pressure sensitivity? They also had to change the way the data is sent and handled to accomodate all the new things. Now they have higher resolution motion sensor data to send back, as well touchpad input, the upstream bandwidth opened up by killing the pressure sensitive buttons allowed for that. But now there's a lot of downstream data that needs transferring like in-controller speaker output, headset input/output, lightbar information, and newer rumble feedback.

Sure, the touchpad is a gimimck, but that doesn't mean the whole hasn't made a drastic technical change over the previous.

All these things add up to a significant change in the controller. Also, one of the reasons why you buy consoles is that with each generation, you just buy the system and its controllers, and that's it. You don't have to worry about odd system configurations, or sloppy developers forgetting to support one thing or another. The developers get the benefit of knowing exactly what hardware they're dealing with, and can make games that make the best use of that hardware. If they allowed the PS3 controller on the PS4, that solidarity of platform is broken by developers having to fiddle around for players that stubbornly use older controllers without the proper features.

Sorry, but I'd rather have the headset plugged into the controller, a small speaker to get player specific cues, and other functionality like split screen adjustment based off the controller lightbars.

What you're asking is for developers to gut features from their game, and for gamers to lose out on useful or interesting new features just because you can't be bothered to buy a $50-$60 controller for your $400 - $500 game console. Oh wait, you don't need to buy one because one comes with the system, and I severely doubt anyone will be playing with you on the couch.

Sincerely,

@vertrucio

I like how the OP avoided this answer, which is probably the best answer here. I love it when someone writes a good answer like this and the OP ignores it because he can't refute it or come up with an argument against it.

Agreed.

Just quoting until response.

@egg said:

@sliverbat said:

This is how you innovate, the PS4 controller is the most stand out Playstation controller to date

How do you know that?

I have pattern recognition, this is the third time Sony is doing this. Pressure sensitive buttons failed, sixaxis was neglected, rumble was thought so unimportant that it was cut for sixaxis, WiiU has a tablet screen and even then few games are finding meaningful uses for it. Xbox One is not adding a touchpad to their controller. Gamecube shoulder buttons came and went.

Will touchpad be used in meaningful ways? I don't know, maybe it will in a few cases. But that's not the point. It won't though.

"Ergonomically the PS4 controller is truly up to date."

PS4 and Xbox one have different controllers ergonomically. So that tells me obviously it has nothing to do with ergonomics.

Actually I am honestly wondering why neither Sony NOR Microsoft is copying the others' controller and releasing it separately. You'd think that between the two of them, one of them would come up with this idea, and just dominate.

1: You are wrong again. The rumble was cut because of patent issues. They only choose to not say that and instead come up with the worst explanation.

2: Shoulder buttons came and went? Really? You can't find them anywhere any more?

3: Yeah you would also think companies would have come up with a single tv, phone or car to dominate... There are multiple solutions and options to the same thing.

2. I said Gamecube style shoulder buttons. The ones that click / have added function if you push them in all the way. Unnecessary gimmick.

3. I don't believe you understand what I wrote. Sony is not releasing an Xbox 360 style controller. MS is not releasing a Dual shock style controller. Somehow they seem complacent with people getting one console over the other all because of controller preference. Maybe they think nobody really does this, in which case it is perhaps alarming and I have to wonder if Sony and MS identify with gamers. They might need to get their heads out of their you-know-what.

Instead of releasing an optional Xbox 360/One style controller, Sony is adding a touchpad. Nice. Controller preference isn't important anyhow, right?

PS3 controller isn't allowed either. It's not like 2nd controller adoption rate is important right? Couch multiplayer, that's not that important. Controller preference, not that important. Instead, can we get a small touchpad where the start and select buttons used to be? Dang right. That right there is the future. Just try not to hit the control sticks when using it.

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