Thank God for non-stupid Dual Shock triggers

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#1 Edited by theninjamonke (31 posts) -

Is anyone else SUPER pumped that the triggers on the new Dual Shock 4 controllers are actually triggers instead of those stupid fucking squares that dual shock 3 has???

#2 Posted by TheManiacsGnome (279 posts) -

SUPER pumped.

But no, seriously. It's exciting, especially if the controllers have less flex, the PS3 controllers felt like garbage in comparison to the 360 ones from a quality standpoint. Anyone remember how flimsy the vanilla Sixxaxis felt?

#3 Edited by ShaggE (6699 posts) -

Coming off of the 360 controller, definitely. Triggers are a wonderful thing.

#4 Posted by MideonNViscera (2252 posts) -

Now if only they'd put the left stick in the proper spot.

#5 Posted by Bollard (5841 posts) -

Now if only they'd put the left stick in the proper spot.

#6 Posted by mercutio123 (473 posts) -

I don't get this whole "proper spot" thing with the sticks. I think the symmetrical placement is actually more comfortable

#7 Posted by Zidd (1857 posts) -
#8 Posted by hidys (1029 posts) -

Yes. This is excellent news.

#9 Edited by MideonNViscera (2252 posts) -

@zidd said:

@mideonnviscera: @chavtheworld: What are you guys talking about? The stick placement has been correct since 1997.

In 1997 they just crammed sticks onto the existing controller. Then they just never bothered to improve.

#10 Posted by mercutio123 (473 posts) -

@zidd said:

@mideonnviscera: @chavtheworld: What are you guys talking about? The stick placement has been correct since 1997.

In 1997 they just crammed sticks onto the existing controller. Then they just never bothered to improve.

Why is having one in a different place an improvement?

#11 Edited by MideonNViscera (2252 posts) -

@mideonnviscera said:

@zidd said:

@mideonnviscera: @chavtheworld: What are you guys talking about? The stick placement has been correct since 1997.

In 1997 they just crammed sticks onto the existing controller. Then they just never bothered to improve.

Why is having one in a different place an improvement?

It's way more comfortable.

#12 Posted by MildMolasses (3229 posts) -

@mercutio123 said:

@mideonnviscera said:

@zidd said:

@mideonnviscera: @chavtheworld: What are you guys talking about? The stick placement has been correct since 1997.

In 1997 they just crammed sticks onto the existing controller. Then they just never bothered to improve.

Why is having one in a different place an improvement?

It's way more comfortable.

What's wrong with your thumb that that inch causes you that much discomfort? The right stick is in the same spot on both Xbox and PS. Is that just as uncomfortable?

#13 Posted by Jimbo (9988 posts) -

YOURE WELCOME!!!!!!

#14 Edited by CommanderGermanShepard (303 posts) -

@chavtheworld said:

@mideonnviscera said:

Now if only they'd put the left stick in the proper spot.

Getting a PS4 but can't stand the DS3 controllers. Unless it's a huge improvement I will be getting a 3rd party Xbox style controller.

#15 Posted by mercutio123 (473 posts) -

@mideonnviscera said:

@mercutio123 said:

@mideonnviscera said:

@zidd said:

@mideonnviscera: @chavtheworld: What are you guys talking about? The stick placement has been correct since 1997.

In 1997 they just crammed sticks onto the existing controller. Then they just never bothered to improve.

Why is having one in a different place an improvement?

It's way more comfortable.

What's wrong with your thumb that that inch causes you that much discomfort? The right stick is in the same spot on both Xbox and PS. Is that just as uncomfortable?

This is why I never understood that argument

#16 Posted by Zidd (1857 posts) -

@zidd said:

@mideonnviscera: @chavtheworld: What are you guys talking about? The stick placement has been correct since 1997.

In 1997 they just crammed sticks onto the existing controller. Then they just never bothered to improve.

The Dual Shock stick placement allows for the D-Pad to be larger than it is on the xbox 360/one controller. The larger D-Pad allows for the d-pad to be more than just 4 buttons in a + shape like it is in a lot of games(on both platforms). This isn't a big deal to people who use the analog stick for movement in 2D fighting games and platformers.

#17 Posted by Lowfyr (21 posts) -

Dual Shock stick placement is perfectly fine, I also like the Xbox gamepad, but it's just garbage when it comes to Beat'em'ups.

#18 Edited by Nezza (377 posts) -

@mercutio123: Because unless they make a much wider controller I'm not mashing my thumbs into each other when on full lock .

But back to the OP's point - I couldn't agree more. I despise the triggers on the PS3 so anything will be an improvement. I was so pleased to hear that everyone that has tried the DS4 has said that it is a massive improvement.

Edit to say it's not a Sony thing as the thumbsticks on my Vita also feel far, far better than the DS3 as they have a much tighter resistance, and again the width between the sticks makes it much more comfortable for me.

#19 Edited by Lazyaza (2212 posts) -

Personally I'm more glad the thumbsticks have a much nicer shape to them that will hopefully increase the level of friction. PS1, 2 and 3's were always so smooth and it bugged me.

#20 Edited by mercutio123 (473 posts) -

@nezza: Fair enough not an issue for me. I tend to push with the point of my thumbs. The Bombcast guys were saying that the touchpad has widened the controller anyway so I doubt this will be an issue

#21 Posted by probablytuna (3822 posts) -

Triggers are my only problems with the DualShock 3 and since watching some of the videos regarding the PS4 controller it definitely looks like an improvement.

#22 Posted by MideonNViscera (2252 posts) -

@mideonnviscera said:

@mercutio123 said:

@mideonnviscera said:

@zidd said:

@mideonnviscera: @chavtheworld: What are you guys talking about? The stick placement has been correct since 1997.

In 1997 they just crammed sticks onto the existing controller. Then they just never bothered to improve.

Why is having one in a different place an improvement?

It's way more comfortable.

What's wrong with your thumb that that inch causes you that much discomfort? The right stick is in the same spot on both Xbox and PS. Is that just as uncomfortable?

It doesn't cause me "that much discomfort". The other way is just flat out better.

#23 Edited by Shirogane (3581 posts) -

@nezza: THE HELL, why are you holding it like that, i could never imagine holding a controller like that, that seems utterly crazy to me! Is that how tightly most people really hold their controllers?

I'm going to be different and say i don't really like the triggers on the 360 controller, something about them just isn't right. That said, the L2/R2 on ps3 aren't great either, but i got used to them after a while. Really hated them for a long time though. But if they DS4 is using something akin to the 360 triggers...URGH, i'm going to hate that.

#24 Edited by EVO (3941 posts) -

@nezza: You're holding it wrong. It should be like this:

#25 Posted by kpaadet (413 posts) -

@nezza: Why are you holding the controller wrong? It looks very uncomfortable. Is that why some people have a problem with symmetrical stick placement, because they hold the controller like I imagine an old person would hold it?

#26 Posted by Schmollian (268 posts) -

@nezza: Wow, it actually hurts my wrists to hold the controller the same way you do.

#27 Edited by Ares42 (2796 posts) -

@chavtheworld: @mideonnviscera: You mean like this ?

Seriously, the Wii U pro controller, is by far the best official controller currently on the market =)

#28 Posted by slowhanded (37 posts) -
@evo said:

@nezza: You're holding it wrong. It should be like this:

There's absolutely more than one way to hold a controller. Due to natural variation in joints, hand shape, finger size, and proportions, the way one preferably holds a controller may be wholly uncomfortable for another. For a lot of people (myself included), even the most natural way of holding the DS is still uncomfortable. Others' argument that it's a minor inconvenience is overlooking the fact that one interfaces with the controller for hours, even days at a time.

#29 Posted by MarkM (298 posts) -

my levels of pump are off the charts

#30 Posted by Scroll (601 posts) -

@evo: I hold it more like that but very rarely I get that awkward slight touch of thumbs that feels wrong. I feel dirty after it happens.

#31 Posted by Flappy (2352 posts) -

@nezza: If it makes you feel any better, I use the more, uh, traditional form of holding a controller, but assuming I get used to the change, my hands are small enough to pull off your technique as well. Pretty awesome/horrible, huh?

Real talk, though: That's a bummer. Try switching it up a bit? Find something that works for you?

#32 Edited by GaspoweR (3489 posts) -

@mercutio123 said:

I don't get this whole "proper spot" thing with the sticks. I think the symmetrical placement is actually more comfortable

Ever since they were introduced late in the PSone/PSX days, I've always found that the Dual Shock analog stick placement to be really awkward and have preferred the Xbox controller placement since they've come out. I've yet to try the Dual Shock 4 and from the looks of things they probably might have made it even better since the stick placement is farther away from the center which in a sense makes it almost close to the 360 and actually looks to be more comfortable from the looks of the pictures of people holding the controller, the finger and thumb placement actually mimics the thumb being in the resting position, unlike the previous iterations where in both thumbs would need to move towards the center controller (the term for that is abduction) at the CMC (carpometacarpal) joint, which made it feel slightly uncomfortable since that isn't a natural resting position of the thumb, if the forearm rotated in the neutral position (the same forearm position when we are holding the controllers).

EDIT: Check slowhanded's post above. Notice how the thumb's on both hands HAS to abduct or move away from the index finger. Now try to do the same position with your hands without the controller and not exerting any effort what so ever (resting postition). You'll notice that thumbs do not abduct all the way out.

#33 Posted by Nezza (377 posts) -

@evo: You realise that I'm holding the controller identically to you; only your photo is taken from above and mine is taken from a flater angle where I have rested the camera on the table meaning you see much more of the underside of the hands?

@shirogane: I'm not gripping the controller tightly at all. It is completely rested on the pads of the at the base of the 4th & 5th fingers, no squeezing or holding. Move my thumbs out the way and you could you pick it straight up with little resistance. Well except the resistance you'd meet as you tried to nick my controller. ;)

@kpaadet: "Wrong" - differently to you. A subtle but distinct difference.

Hold a controller however you want to. It's a subjective thing and down to personal preference. My own preference being for asymmetric thumbsticks unless the controller is wide enough to accomodate inline controls. I find the Vita the perfect width for that. I'd like to try the Nintendo Pro Controller but there isn't anything out there that would justify its purchase over the main controller.

Given that Sony has made the controller wider, totally changed the triggers, the tops of the thumbsticks and the tension in said thumbsticks; there certainly was room for improvement and they'd only have done that based on user feedback and the reaction to the 360 controller. The feedback coming out of E3 is that it feels it great in the hand and that is something anyone considering a PS4 should be pleased to hear.

#34 Posted by tourgen (4542 posts) -

@evo: actually it looks like you are holding it wrong. Are you applying your leverage for using the analog sticks with the insides of your first index finger knuckles? That's what the pictures look like. That puts the base of the first knuckle (top of the hand) at the angled grips on the controller. That is extremely uncomfortable way to game.

I have the same problem with the DS3. It's just too narrow. If I hold it with the grips at the center of my palms then my thumbs cross over when using the analog sticks. The controller is just way too small. It's my biggest knock on the PS3.

#35 Posted by Daneian (1251 posts) -

All the hand pics are making me want to retch.

#36 Posted by MildMolasses (3229 posts) -

@nezza:

Those pictures all look like infomercial over-dramatizations to convince us that doing really simply things is somehow really complicated. I don't in any way understand why you are holding your controller that way
#37 Posted by Flappy (2352 posts) -

@daneian: I'm sure some people in the community are willing to show off their pretty hands for you. All you hafta do is ask, homie.

#38 Posted by slowhanded (37 posts) -

@mildmolasses: You don't understand because you physically lack the hand structure to run into this issue. Hand size, proportions, finger size, length, etc. all play into this. Consider yourself lucky that your preferred hand position is comfortable.

#39 Edited by Seppli (10250 posts) -

I absolutely don't understand people unwilling or even unable to adapt to a controller. I've adapted perfectly to both the PS3 and 360 gamepads. I initially preferred the 360's formfactor, but once I adopted the 4-Finger-Stance in regards to shoulder buttons (because Vanquish plays much more awesomely this way), the Dual Shock 3 became my favorite. *Polygripping* (trademark pending) just works better with the DS3's formfactor. I guess if you've got T-Bone-Steak sized hands, its diminutive size could become a legitimate problem.

FYI - the DS3 is a way higher quality product in terms build quality. The analog sticks alone are already worlds beyond the 360's, which seems to have a much larger deadzones to provide a sufficient fault tolerance for out of kilter analog sticks.

#40 Posted by Turtlebird95 (2609 posts) -

Very excited, don't know what the fuck Sony was thinking when the made the "triggers" on the PS3 controller.

@mildmolasses said:

@mideonnviscera said:

@mercutio123 said:

@mideonnviscera said:

@zidd said:

@mideonnviscera: @chavtheworld: What are you guys talking about? The stick placement has been correct since 1997.

In 1997 they just crammed sticks onto the existing controller. Then they just never bothered to improve.

Why is having one in a different place an improvement?

It's way more comfortable.

What's wrong with your thumb that that inch causes you that much discomfort? The right stick is in the same spot on both Xbox and PS. Is that just as uncomfortable?

This is why I never understood that argument

Have you naysayers of different analog placement gamed much if at all on 360? I have, and believe me the precision and comfort there is unmatched by DS3.

It also might be because I have big hands, but I don't know.

#41 Posted by Flappy (2352 posts) -

@seppli: I spent practically the entire duration of this console generation on a 360, but after a couple hours with the DS3, I managed to adjust to the weight of the controller and the weird "triggers" that we call "L2" and "R2." Then again, it might be the countless hours of PS2-whoring I did back in the day.

I mean, shit. If 7/8 year old me can handle the original Duke controller for the Xbox, anything is possible.

#42 Posted by mercutio123 (473 posts) -

@turtlebird95: I've had the 360 as my primary over the last couple of years. Always preferred the playstation controllers. Probably because I've gone from ps1 to ps2 to ps3 with the 360 bought after. I also tend to hold controllers pretty loosely

#43 Edited by EvilNiGHTS (1093 posts) -

@zidd said:

@mideonnviscera: @chavtheworld: What are you guys talking about? The stick placement has been correct since 1997.

This. In a lot of ways, I think Sony's original Dual Analog pad was better than the Dualshock.

Though someone should totally bring back the Negcon.

Anyway, I think they're making the right changes, but I'm hardly losing sleep or stopping people in the street and getting them to bro out with me over it.

#44 Edited by Seppli (10250 posts) -

@theninjamonke

On topic. Yes - I welcome proper triggers to the Dual Shock 4. I am SUPER stoked!

#45 Edited by Turtlebird95 (2609 posts) -

@mercutio123: I feel ya. I still love the Playstation controllers, just really not for shooters. That mostly has to do with the triggers though, I can get used to the analogs.

#46 Posted by Dot (163 posts) -

@nezza: Wow, that is really weird. I think you might be exaggerating in that picture... I don't know anybody who holds a controller like that.

#47 Edited by Aegon (5831 posts) -

I have big hands / long fingers and my thumbs have never collided into each other using the DS3 analog sticks. Don't know what the fuck you guys are doing.

Also, ew, clean the cheetos shit out of your finger nails or cut them. Come on.

Online
#48 Posted by Nezza (377 posts) -

@dot: They are photos of my hands on each controller and pushing the thumbsticks towards each other (with each controller) to show why I personally prefer those thumbsticks to be offset. What exactly can I have exaggerated? The sticks themselves are in the balls of my thumbs and the only way they don't hit each other is to literally come in at a 90 degree angle and use my fingertips. Whatever way you want to look at it, for my hands an offset thumbstick arrangement is the more comfortable unless the gap between the thumbsticks is wider.

#49 Posted by churrific (485 posts) -

@nezza: Wow. Do you apply a ton of pressure on your thumbs to keep the sticks from sliding up and down? Lol I can't imagine the blisters you'd get from that. You gotta give the DS3 some slack here. I don't think you can expect them to design a super wide controller just for your unique way of holding them without changing the symmetry of the sticks, which is what a lot of ppl like about them.

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