sony better shape up with trophies

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#51 Edited by Red (5991 posts) -

While, yes, trophies do have a myriad of problems (syncing, sluggish interface, not being as good as achievement points...), them not being in old pre-trophy games has nothing to do with Sony, and them not being in even older PS1 games doesn't matter either. 
Do Xbox Originals have achievements?

#52 Posted by Drebin_893 (2872 posts) -

Every game on the PS3 released in 2009 onwards had to have trophy support, excluding classics.

#53 Edited by DanielJW (4915 posts) -
@quezen said:

" @DanielJW said:

" @quezen: I'm more upset at your awful post format, but that's not really relevant.   Tell me why you're upset again? "
Because Sony as a company has refused to comment about the future of PSN-titles at all.  nor has they said anything about games already released without trophies. Why? because their fanbase are like fanboys, so they never have to take responsibility. "
Games that were released prior to trophies being mandatory do not have to add trophies. Sony can ask them to all they want but they are not liable to do so. All future games, including downloadable ones, save for PS1 Classics, will have trophies. PS1 Classics will likely never get trophies, the same way Microsoft's Xbox Originals don't. 
 
Does it suck that the PS3 was launched without any kind of achievements? Sure. Does it suck that for this reason, some really great games (Assassin's Creed, Modern Warfare, MGS4) won't have trophies? Sure. However Sony is only to blame for the fact that they didn't release trophies sooner. As for adding trophies for older games, the onus is on the developer. 
Online
#54 Edited by JokerClown88 (1051 posts) -
@quezen said:

"no, every XBLA (sega game) isnt a new game, its emulated. SEGA even themselves has said so and thats why some hasn't been up because "they doesnt work properly" today. Its not a new game. "


Yes they are.  They add GRAPHICS FILTERS and LEADERBOARDS and ONLINE SUPPORT if it is a multiplayer game.  That makes it a NEW release.  Not an emulation.  You are refusing to see points that are presented to you logically and intellegently.  You are becoming the dreaded internet Troll.  Please cease this effort to insult everyone who disagrees with you.  The point of a forum is to share an opinion and to listen to the opinions of others.  You seem intent on shoving your opinion down everyones throat.  Trolls are NOT welcome on GiantBomb.
 
#55 Posted by iAmJohn (6091 posts) -
@quezen said:
" no, every XBLA (sega game) isnt a new game, its emulated. SEGA even themselves has said so and thats why some hasn't been up because "they doesnt work properly" today. Its not a new game. "
The games themselves are emulated, but they're also running in complex emulators that are able to add backend and other features to the game that are necessary to being allowed on the service (like Microsoft's mandatory menu layout and all the frontend) whereas the PSOne Classics are the games being straight-up run in a simple emulator that plays the game as it would if you were playing a PSOne.  Please learn what you're talking about before you say it.
#56 Posted by quezen (138 posts) -

Microsoft xbox originals arnt to be confused with XBLA. XBLA however has for ex Castlevania(old ps1 game with achievements - HOW COME?!) and for ex Phantasy star II with achievements.
Xbox original used a diffrent system, it use the chip on the xbox to play older games (if I remember correctly) and isnt intergrated with the achievement system at all, while all emulated/dlc games however works fine.

#57 Posted by iAmJohn (6091 posts) -
@quezen said:
" Microsoft xbox originals arnt to be confused with XBLA. "
Right, and by that logic, PSOne Classics aren't to be confused with PSN games. 
 
Thread over.
#58 Edited by quezen (138 posts) -
@iAmJohn said:

" @quezen said:

" no, every XBLA (sega game) isnt a new game, its emulated. SEGA even themselves has said so and thats why some hasn't been up because "they doesnt work properly" today. Its not a new game. "

The games themselves are emulated, but they're also running in complex emulators that are able to add backend and other features to the game that are necessary to being allowed on the service (like Microsoft's mandatory menu layout and all the frontend) whereas the PSOne Classics are the games being straight-up run in a simple emulator that plays the game as it would if you were playing a PSOne.  Please learn what you're talking about before you say it. "
once again, you make up stuff.
SEGA said, they have the same emulator(not emulators)  for every SEGA-game, that emulator could run around 50+ games from the genesis(or mega drive) and for those games that didnt work with that special emulator got "cut". if SEGA could create an emulator that works then sony can also, remember even EPSX or whatever its called can run 99% of every ps1 games today, and its made by one person, surely SONY can do better (or square-enix.).
 
This notion that Microsoft/SEGA are doing something highly complex is just BS, its sony not giving a shit.
Thats why Castlevania worked fine with Achievements, and other classics from SEGA.
With that said, if you dont care about trophies/achievements then fine. I do, I have the right to voice my opinion. But until Sony doesnt try and copy MS more, I rather not give a shit about the trophy system at all, and just see it as a badly rip-off from MS.
#59 Posted by JokerClown88 (1051 posts) -
@quezen said:
"Microsoft xbox originals arnt to be confused with XBLA. XBLA however has for ex Castlevania(old ps1 game with achievements - HOW COME?!) and for ex Phantasy star II with achievements. Xbox original used a diffrent system, it use the chip on the xbox to play older games (if I remember correctly) and isnt intergrated with the achievement system at all, while all emulated/dlc games however works fine. "

The reason Symphony of Night had achievments and all of that is because it was never coded for release on a Microsoft Console.  They could not do an Xbox original due to the fact that it was not on the original xbox thus making it a new release and forcing Devs to add achievments.  It is EMULATED on the PS3 because it was a PS1 release a long ass time ago.  I swear its like trying to talk with a broken record.
#60 Edited by chrissedoff (2041 posts) -
@iAmJohn said:

" @quezen said:

" Microsoft xbox originals arnt to be confused with XBLA. "
Right, and by that logic, PSOne Classics aren't to be confused with PSN games.  Thread over. "
the xbox originals you download are just the old xbox games that run on an xbox360 using an emulation.
meaning, your old crimson skies disc from back in the day contains the exact same data you would download if you bought crimson skies on XBLA.
 
the psone classics exist because most ps3's are not backwards compatible, so they could theoretically do whatever they wanted with them when they toss them on the online store. they're not really the same thing.
anyway, saying that sony shouldn't offer a nice feature because microsoft hasn't seems like a fucked-up opinion to have. microsoft has to take the lead on every good idea?
#61 Edited by quezen (138 posts) -

Have I denied it being emulated?
While ps3 can run ps1 games, emulator with added achievement/trophy support is for the better, you could etc make every game 60 framerate and add trophies/achievements.
If "ONE PERSON" can (Pete from the emulator scene), then surely sony/square-enix can. 
With that said, isnt FF7 emulated? or is it just luring the console that a "cd" is in the ps3? actually bought ff7 on my pal-ps3 yesterday, gonna get ff8 also later on...

#62 Edited by Tactical_Kill (1695 posts) -

If Sony went back to every developer that made a game for the PS3 before trophies were mandatory the only thing that would accomplish would be pissing off the developers. Because the game was released before the mandatory trophies rule they are not required to do so.  
 
i gotta say this topic started out okay but it is slowly turning into a troll topic.

#63 Posted by JokerClown88 (1051 posts) -
@quezen:

 
#64 Posted by quezen (138 posts) -
the real trolls? the ones who upload these stupid pictures.
#65 Posted by chrissedoff (2041 posts) -

what is the worst thing that could come from pissing off the developers? are they going to forsake all the money they stand to make on developing games for the ps3? no. are they going to intentionally sabotage the ps3 versions of their games? no. so who cares? game devs' relationship to sony is just business, it's not like they're going to sony's house for christmas dinner.

#66 Posted by chrissedoff (2041 posts) -
@JokerClown88 said:
" @quezen:

"
douche
#67 Posted by EvilTwin (3324 posts) -

I just don't get this topic at all.  Sony has no ability to force developers to add trophies to old games.  They're mandatory now, for all retail and PSN releases, how is that not enough? 

#68 Edited by quezen (138 posts) -

Double post and in it added an image, what a moron. but hey, thats how clueless morons argue.

#69 Posted by iAmJohn (6091 posts) -
@quezen said:
" once again, you make up stuff. SEGA said, they have the same emulator(not emulators)  for every SEGA-game, that emulator could run around 50+ games from the genesis(or mega drive) and for those games that didnt work with that special emulator got "cut". if SEGA could create an emulator that works then sony can also, remember even EPSX or whatever its called can run 99% of every ps1 games today, and its made by one person, surely SONY can do better (or square-enix.).  This notion that Microsoft/SEGA are doing something highly complex is just BS, its sony not giving a shit. Thats why Castlevania worked fine with Achievements, and other classics from SEGA. With that said, if you dont care about trophies/achievements then fine. I do, I have the right to voice my opinion. But until Sony doesnt try and copy MS more, I rather not give a shit about the trophy system at all, and just see it as a badly rip-off from MS. "
And once again, you prove that you have no clue what you're talking about.  Yes, the Genesis games that Sega has are running in a proprietary Genesis emulator that they own.  There still is, however, new coding in the wrapper menu system that Microsoft requires and added functionality like cheat support (if they wanted) and achievements.  Symphony of the Night is all the proof you need that these games are being reprogrammed to an extent - all the CG cutscenes from the original were cut and the music was compressed for the Live requirements.
 
@chrissedoff said:
" the xbox originals you download are just the old xbox games that run on an xbox360 using an emulation. meaning, your old crimson skies disc from back in the day contains the exact same data you would download if you bought crimson skies on XBLA.   the psone classics exist because most ps3's are not backwards compatible, so they could theoretically do whatever they wanted with them when they toss them on the online store. they're not really the same thing. anyway, saying that sony shouldn't offer a nice feature because microsoft hasn't seems like a fucked-up opinion to have. microsoft has to take the lead on every good idea? "
Incorrect.  All PS3s can play PS1 games - even the Slims.  You're technically right that they're not the same thing, but that's because the PSOne Classics aren't exactly using an emulator.  It's the same thing as how they worked on PS2 - slightly upscaled, but basically running as they did.
#70 Posted by chrissedoff (2041 posts) -
@iAmJohn said:

" the xbox originals you download are just the old xbox games that run on an xbox360 using an emulation. meaning, your old crimson skies disc from back in the day contains the exact same data you would download if you bought crimson skies on XBLA.   the psone classics exist because most ps3's are not backwards compatible, so they could theoretically do whatever they wanted with them when they toss them on the online store. they're not really the same thing. anyway, saying that sony shouldn't offer a nice feature because microsoft hasn't seems like a fucked-up opinion to have. microsoft has to take the lead on every good idea? "
Incorrect.  All PS3s can play PS1 games - even the Slims.  You're technically right that they're not the same thing, but that's because the PSOne Classics aren't exactly using an emulator.  It's the same thing as how they worked on PS2 - slightly upscaled, but basically running as they did. "
my mistake
#71 Posted by demonbear (1860 posts) -

You can't blame sony for trophies on their ps1 games. Or if you do, do the same with microsoft and the xbox originals catalogue.
 
And MSG4, you just proved you know nothing about this industry. Its not Sony's fault but Kojima Studios. Blame them if you want to, its their decision, not sony's.
 
Now be a good kid, go drink some eggnog and go play outside, will ya?

#72 Posted by quezen (138 posts) -
@EvilTwin said:
" I just don't get this topic at all.  Sony has no ability to force developers to add trophies to old games.  They're mandatory now, for all retail and PSN releases, how is that not enough?  "
They "can't" force anyone but if your biggest game( or one of them ) lack one of the bigger features, then thats an issue. 
However, since this thread is flooded with trolls and morons (and sonyfanboys) lets end the topic now, I kind of expected all sonyfanboys to deny they care for trophies and not even ask sony for asking Konami TBH.
#73 Posted by kumis (67 posts) -
@quezen: Quezen, really? I mean really? Calling everyone an idiot doesn't get you anywhere. Also, why is everyone else wrong? You are saying that everyone else is making stuff up and still you insist that you know what kind of an effort it takes to add trophy support to a game? Where do you get this information from? 
 
Can someone please lock this thread?
#74 Edited by quezen (138 posts) -
@kumis said:

" @quezen: Quezen, really? I mean really? Calling everyone an idiot doesn't get you anywhere. Also, why is everyone else wrong? You are saying that everyone else is making stuff up and still you insist that you know what kind of an effort it takes to add trophy support to a game? Where do you get this information from?    Can someone please lock this thread? "

When did I call everyone for an idiot ? and everyone is making up stuff? I said one guy was making up stuff, and he was, claiming SEGA used "emulators" when they said thats incorrect because thats why some games are missing because we are using "ONE" emulator for everything.
Liar...
but yes, please lock the thread so the sonyfanboys can be happy. I couldnt give a shit anymore, I expected this to happend but wasnt sure, but it did.
#75 Edited by lazyb (52 posts) -
#76 Posted by JokerClown88 (1051 posts) -
@quezen:
The reason that it happened is simple.  I started by trying to show why it wont happen in an intellegent manner.  You completly ignored what I and other users were saying.  Calling us liers, idiots, etc.  Please re-read your previous posts for proof.  My images came when you decended into Troll territory.  Fight fire with fire I say.
#77 Edited by iAmJohn (6091 posts) -
@chrissedoff:  s'all good!  Now you know, and knowing is half the battle! 
 
@quezen said:

" They "can't" force anyone but if your biggest game( or one of them ) lack one of the bigger features, then thats an issue.  However, since this thread is flooded with trolls and morons (and sonyfanboys) lets end the topic now, I kind of expected all sonyfanboys to deny they care for trophies and not even ask sony for asking Konami TBH. "

Somehow I missed the part where all the Sony fanboys came in ranting about much trophies aren't important and trolling you and am instead seeing all the parts where people told you you're wrong and you responded with anger and pith. 
 
Also: calling people liars isn't helping your cause.
#78 Posted by kumis (67 posts) -
@quezen said:
" @EvilTwin said:
" I just don't get this topic at all.  Sony has no ability to force developers to add trophies to old games.  They're mandatory now, for all retail and PSN releases, how is that not enough?  "
They "can't" force anyone but if your biggest game( or one of them ) lack one of the bigger features, then thats an issue.  However, since this thread is flooded with trolls and morons (and sonyfanboys) lets end the topic now, I kind of expected all sonyfanboys to deny they care for trophies and not even ask sony for asking Konami TBH. "
I'd say this counts as calling everyone a moron. Also, you didn't answer my question: how do you know how much time and money goes into adding trophy support?
#79 Edited by quezen (138 posts) -
@JokerClown88 said:

" @quezen: The reason that it happened is simple.  I started by trying to show why it wont happen in an intellegent manner.  You completly ignored what I and other users were saying.  Calling us liers, idiots, etc.  Please re-read your previous posts for proof.  My images came when you decended into Troll territory.  Fight fire with fire I say. "

You must be insane, wtf are you talking about, I called him for  a liar for claiming I CALLED EVERYONE FOR AN IDIOT. 
fight fire with fire... wtf are you on.
 
who personally attacked me? who recommend me "starting up my brain? was that you? and I had said what? that offended you so much?
But dont worry dude, you probably have to talk tough online because you never get the chance irl. So im not offended.
#80 Edited by quezen (138 posts) -
@kumis said:

" @quezen said:

" @EvilTwin said:
" I just don't get this topic at all.  Sony has no ability to force developers to add trophies to old games.  They're mandatory now, for all retail and PSN releases, how is that not enough?  "
They "can't" force anyone but if your biggest game( or one of them ) lack one of the bigger features, then thats an issue.  However, since this thread is flooded with trolls and morons (and sonyfanboys) lets end the topic now, I kind of expected all sonyfanboys to deny they care for trophies and not even ask sony for asking Konami TBH. "
I'd say this counts as calling everyone a moron. Also, you didn't answer my question: how do you know how much time and money goes into adding trophy support? "
And I dont. that simple.
#81 Posted by BestUsernameEver (4866 posts) -
@quezen said:

" @Skye said:

" Chill out, no one forces you to play trophyless games, just be grateful that some games do have them. People played games for decades without trophies/achievements. "
Then just take away the support. if you gonna do something do something right like microsoft did. "
Stop WHINING (Arnold  schwarzenegger voice)
#82 Posted by JokerClown88 (1051 posts) -
@quezen said:
"@JokerClown88 said:

" @quezen: The reason that it happened is simple.  I started by trying to show why it wont happen in an intellegent manner.  You completly ignored what I and other users were saying.  Calling us liers, idiots, etc.  Please re-read your previous posts for proof.  My images came when you decended into Troll territory.  Fight fire with fire I say. "

You must be insane, wtf are you talking about, I called him for  a liar for claiming I CALLED EVERYONE FOR AN IDIOT.  fight fire with fire... wtf are you on.  who personally attacked me? who recommend me "starting up my brain? was that you? and I had said what? that offended you so much? "

You are in the mind that you are right and everyone else is wrong.  That comes when someones mind is focused on themselves and are shutting themselves off from the outside (outside being other peoples opinions).  Telling you to start up your brain" is another way to say "open your eyes."  We have preseneted you facts as to why PSONE Classics will never have trophies.  Yet for some reason you said that we are all wrong with no facts to support your argument.  The facts that you presented have been overturned by other facts that the rest of us have presented.  It seems to me that you who is living in the here and now.  Not a single post that you have made has come across as intellegent.  They have all come across as angry.  When that happens, you get next to zero support and will get insulted.  Tis but the way of the world.  If for example the President was at the UN and didnt like a policy and wanted to lobby for it to be changed, he would not go before everyone in an angry manner.  Would that get him any support?  No.  Does he call France a bunch of morons when they dont agree?  No.  He has an intellegent and thought provoking argument that he presents.  He does not belittle everyone who does not agree with his point either.  When you learn to do this, and not call people morons for disagreeing, then you will get constructive posts on your thread.  Then you will not come under fire.  
#83 Edited by quezen (138 posts) -

OH THATS WHAT IT MEANS...
 
 -start up your brain" is another way to say "open your eyes."
 
oh,  so you wasnt attacking me?
then moron in Swedish means "great friends".
Also, every post I make is "angry" but this guy isn't he meant it in a friendly way to start up my brain.
Well thank you sir, im glad you keep it at a friendly level. I also love your argument, that calling someone in the UN for a moron would be a great upset, try ask a leader to finally start up his brain while debating, im sure he will see no problems with it.

#84 Posted by MAN_FLANNEL (2460 posts) -
@RaisingIndiana said:
" @EVO said:
" @quezen said:
" @EVO said:
" @quezen said:
" @Skye said:
" Chill out, no one forces you to play trophyless games, just be grateful that some games do have them. People played games for decades without trophies/achievements. "
Then just take away the support. if you gonna do something do something right like microsoft did. "
You've gotta be fucking kidding me. "
no, but you must. If the idea or the notion that developers should decied for themselves the system will be useless, it would be like achievements over Windows, who cares? Then developers like blizzard will make their own for their games. "
Forget trophies, let's apply this logic to, say, airbags:  Ford introduced airbags in 1971, but it wasn't until 1994 that they made them standard. When they did this, do you think they thought "hey, we don't have airbags in every car, maybe we should just not add them at all"? Of course they didn't. That would be fucking retarded.  I know there's a huge difference, but essentially you're logic is just as retarded. "
aaaaannnd.... Checkmate. "
You can think of MGS4 (or other  older PS3 games) as a model of car that was sold around 1994 (lets say a Taurus).  Before 1994, a Taurus could have been sold without airbags.  After 1994, Ford had to put airbags into a new Taurus, because they were mandatory.  The point is that MGS4 is still being sold brand new, and by your argument, it would have airbags aka trophies.  If anything your analogy helps his argument instead of yours. 
#85 Posted by JokerClown88 (1051 posts) -
@quezen:
And ignoring the rest of the post does not help your cause either.  You are only focusing on what you are deeming to be attacks against yourself.  You cannot debate this way.  I was trying to show you how to get your opinion across without starting what this thread has become.  If you choose to ignore that, then...well...I have wasted my time.
#86 Posted by quezen (138 posts) -
@MAN_FLANNEL said:
" @RaisingIndiana said:
" @EVO said:
" @quezen said:
" @EVO said:
" @quezen said:
" @Skye said:
" Chill out, no one forces you to play trophyless games, just be grateful that some games do have them. People played games for decades without trophies/achievements. "
Then just take away the support. if you gonna do something do something right like microsoft did. "
You've gotta be fucking kidding me. "
no, but you must. If the idea or the notion that developers should decied for themselves the system will be useless, it would be like achievements over Windows, who cares? Then developers like blizzard will make their own for their games. "
Forget trophies, let's apply this logic to, say, airbags:  Ford introduced airbags in 1971, but it wasn't until 1994 that they made them standard. When they did this, do you think they thought "hey, we don't have airbags in every car, maybe we should just not add them at all"? Of course they didn't. That would be fucking retarded.  I know there's a huge difference, but essentially you're logic is just as retarded. "
aaaaannnd.... Checkmate. "
You can think of MGS4 (or other  older PS3 games) as a model of car that was sold around 1994 (lets say a Taurus).  Before 1994, a Taurus could have been sold without airbags.  After 1994, Ford had to put airbags into a new Taurus, because they were mandatory.  The point is that MGS4 is still being sold brand new, and by your argument, it would have airbags aka trophies.  If anything your analogy helps his argument instead of yours.  "
you're right, they even recall some flawed "cars".
#87 Posted by quezen (138 posts) -
@JokerClown88 said:
" @quezen: And ignoring the rest of the post does not help your cause either.  You are only focusing on what you are deeming to be attacks against yourself.  You cannot debate this way.  I was trying to show you how to get your opinion across without starting what this thread has become.  If you choose to ignore that, then...well...I have wasted my time. "
Your not a person I wanna listen to, personal attacks isnt a way to get my respect or attention. but lets drop this now.
Lets end this topic and move on.
And since its X-mas (24 in Sweden) I hope everyone will get a good one and a happy new year, I have no ill wishings.
#88 Edited by EVO (3785 posts) -
@quezen:  You're missing the point; 

"hey, we don't have airbags in every car, maybe we should just not add them at all"

That was the point. 
 
Sure, the analogy was flawed. But I used it to simply point out why this statement:

" if you gonna do something do something right like microsoft did. "

Was wrong.
#89 Posted by quezen (138 posts) -

my point was more, if you gonna copy something be commited.
dont just add a feature and ask developer to add it if they want (which sony did at first).

#90 Posted by mordukai (7093 posts) -
@pornstorestiffi said:
" Merry Christmas and may this topic get locked. "
LOL. 
#91 Posted by CharlesAlanRatliff (5355 posts) -

Let's just leave the thread, everyone. It's obvious quezen is a complete moron who knows absolutely nothing about game development and refuses to listen to facts. He likes to say that people are making up stuff without knowing what they're talking about, but that is exactly what he is doing. It's a waste of time to try and correct his ignorance.

#92 Posted by skidd (429 posts) -
@Vito_Raliffe said:
" Let's just leave the thread, everyone. It's obvious quezen is a complete moron who knows absolutely nothing about game development and refuses to listen to facts. He likes to say that people are making up stuff without knowing what they're talking about, but that is exactly what he is doing. It's a waste of time to try and correct his ignorance. "
Agreed.
#93 Posted by RHCPfan24 (8610 posts) -

This topic is nothing but flamebait. To the TC and those encouraging him, get in the holiday spirit and do something more productive than trying to rile up a video game community. Thank you, have a Merry Christmas.

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