The Help Jeff fix Standardization of PSN trophies Thread

Post by StaticFalconar (1,417 posts) See mini bio

767 ACH / 11975 P

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Welcome to another Perch of StaticFalconar

Ok, we are all grateful that after a long time, Sony has finally given an API and GB blew up a little more by adding the ability to link our PSN accounts. What more, in an effort to be able to compare gamertags with PSN accounts achievement point for trophy score Jeff has taken on the task of trying to standardize them. Looking at his Infamous example, I thought he was onto something and agreed. Then I started to link my account and notice how some games give me a max possible score of 1345 (midnight Club LA) then there are ones that give us max possible 655 points (Mercenaries 2). Sure when you average them out along with the good examples like infamous, the overall score does make sense.

Extending the Olive Branch

Yet I am not satisfied. So lets help Jeff out by giving suggestions as to what how GB can be the first website to have a good standardization of trophy/achievement points. If you didn't know already, this is the way Sony does their calculation of the trophy system.

Trophy Point Value
Bronze - 15
Silver - 30
Gold - 90
Platinum - 180

Level Point Requirements
Level 1 - 0
Level 2 - 210
Level 3 - 600
Level 4 - 1,200
Level 5 - 2,400
Level 6 - 4,000
Level 7 - 6,000
Level 8 - 8,000
Level 9 - 10,000
Level 10 - 12,000
Level 11 - 14,000
Level 12 - 16,000
Level 13 - 24,000
Level 14 - 32,000
Level 15 - 40,000
Level 16 - 48,000
Level 17 - 56,000
Level 18 - 64,000

Then this is how GB started doing things.

   * Bronze = 10 points
    * Silver = 40 points
    * Gold = 75 points
    * Platinum = 100 points

No level system, just a raw score.

Lets build a Nest from Olive branches

Personally, I think they should take platinum trophies out of the equation since there is no 360 equivalent. Just simply make platinum worthless (as in zero points) since that is the trophy you only get when you have gotten the rest of the trophies possible. If there was a game what had scaled correctly under the current system of 1000 points = getting all the trophies in a game; the player that gets all but the last 50 point achievement (because its too hard of whatever) would have a score of 950, but the PSN player that gets all but that last trophy to get platinum would be out 100 points plus whatever the trophy he couldn't get is worth. So kill what what platinum is worth and bump up the value of everything else to make the math fit more right.

Any other suggestions that might help Jeff fix the problem?

PS: Yes I have done a small search to make sure there are no similar threads already, and after hearing the Bombcast this week, I believe Jeff would appreciate a thread like this since he even acknowledged himself he would have to change the system to bit to make the points fit better.

Posted 1 month, 2 weeks ago

Post by SpikeSpiegel (2,284 posts) See mini bio

298 ACH / 5355 P

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I like your idea of getting rid of points for platinum and just upping the overall point value of the others.

Posted 1 month, 2 weeks ago

Post by MattyFTM (6,706 posts) See mini bio

708 ACH / 7770 P

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Moderator

Completely scrap the gamerscore points system for both Xbox & PSN games, and replace it with a point value based on rarity. It would obviously need some serious thought before implementing, and I've just slung this list together off the top of my head, but something like this:

Percentage of people that have the achievement	Points for the achievement (Giant Bomb Gamerscore)
less than 1%	500
1-2%	400
2-3%	200
3-4%	100
4-5%	75
5-7.5%	60
7.5-10%	50
10-15%	45
15-20%	40
20-30%	35
30-40%	30
40-50%	25
50-60%	20
60-70%	15
70-80%	10
80-90%	5
90-100%	1

This sort of system means that the points is actually representative of the skill required to get the achievement. And it also means that points can be assigned to Xbox, PSN, Steam and WoW in the same way. WoW currently has every achievement at 10 points, Steam at 0 points. It would be great to include Steam & WoW in the score calculation in a meaningful way, but with no grading or points system it is hard, if not impossible to implement into the current points system. A rarity based points system would work eaqually well with Steam & WoW as it would with Xbox & PS3.

Edited 1 month, 2 weeks ago

Post by get2sammyb (4,188 posts) See mini bio

46 ACH / 725 P

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@MattyFTM said:

" Completely scrap the gamerscore points system for both Xbox & PSN games, and assign a point value based on rarity. It would obviously need some serious thought before implementing, and I've just slung this list together off the top of my head, but something like this:
Percentage of people that have the achievement
Points (Giant Bomb Gamerscore)
less than 1%
500
1-2% 400
2-3% 200
3-4% 100
4-5% 75
5-7.5% 60
7.5-10% 50
10-15% 45
15-20% 40
20-30% 35
30-40%
30
40-50%
25
50-60%
20
60-70%
15
70-80%
10
80-90%
5
90-100%
1
This sort of system means that the points is actually representative of the skill required to get the achievement. And it also means that points can be assigned to Xbox, PSN, Steam and WoW in the same way. WoW currently has every achievement at 10 points, Steam at 0 points. It would be great to include Steam & WoW in the score calculation in a meaningful way, but with no grading or points system it is hard, if not impossible to implement into the current points system. A rarity based points system would work eaqually well with Steam & WoW as it would with Xbox & PS3. "

I think that's the perfect way of doing things. Obviously yes it would need thought and tweaking, but that would work awesomely. I think.

Posted 1 month, 2 weeks ago

Post by MattBodega (427 posts) See mini bio

1289 ACH / 21243 P

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Moderator

I think the problem with the rarity idea is that rarity is measured in comparison to all other users on the site. That means that achievement scores could be CONSTANTLY FLUCTUATING, I imagine it would take a lot more work to build a system that was adjusting the point value of individual achievements and all users scores.
But hey, maybe I'm just poo-pooing on the guy reaching for the stars!

Posted 1 month, 2 weeks ago

Post by StaticFalconar (1,417 posts) See mini bio

767 ACH / 11975 P

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@MattyFTM said:

" Completely scrap the gamerscore points system for both Xbox & PSN games, and replace it with a point value based on rarity. It would obviously need some serious thought before implementing, and I've just slung this list together off the top of my head, but something like this:
Percentage of people that have the achievement
Points for the achievement (Giant Bomb Gamerscore)
less than 1%
500
1-2% 400
2-3% 200
3-4% 100
4-5% 75
5-7.5% 60
7.5-10% 50
10-15% 45
15-20% 40
20-30% 35
30-40%
30
40-50%
25
50-60%
20
60-70%
15
70-80%
10
80-90%
5
90-100%
1
This sort of system means that the points is actually representative of the skill required to get the achievement. And it also means that points can be assigned to Xbox, PSN, Steam and WoW in the same way. WoW currently has every achievement at 10 points, Steam at 0 points. It would be great to include Steam & WoW in the score calculation in a meaningful way, but with no grading or points system it is hard, if not impossible to implement into the current points system. A rarity based points system would work eaqually well with Steam & WoW as it would with Xbox & PS3. "

Um, not really. This would just give points out based the rarity of achievement/game you play and not how good you are at the game. Say a big seller like Halo has some hard achievements. The hardcore people that should deserve more points for doing the ultra hard to achieve achievement would get more points in the beginning. However, after much time has passed, and even the noob player can grind enough to get the same achievement. Under the rarity system the hardcore players would be punished down the line as they get less points as everybody eventually gets all the achievements. I know this system would totally shit on the easy to get pts games, but the same effect would eventually happen to the rest that doesn't deserve the same treatment.

Posted 1 month, 2 weeks ago

Post by PhaggyBigNastyMcKill (212 posts) See mini bio

1691 ACH / 32646 P

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I got an idea, like straight up keep the Sony method of putting points in games. Then calculate out how much points it each PS3 game has. If the average number is say 1500points or something, simply do some math and the have a conversion rate of PSN points to achievement points. No more trying to figure out how much a trophy is worth, just a simple math equation solution.

Posted 1 month, 2 weeks ago

Post by Drank_Stank (74 posts) See mini bio

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um...what is the point? do people actually look at others accounts and look at their achievements/ gamerscore? I dont.

Posted 1 month, 2 weeks ago

Post by jakob187 (9,564 posts) See mini bio

2130 ACH / 40690 P

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Who said that the PSN stuff needs to be a system that's equivalent to XBL's? Make the PS3 stuff its own thing, and then make the XBL stuff what it already is.

Posted 1 month, 2 weeks ago

Post by Seedofpower (1,170 posts) See mini bio

1104 ACH / 13444 P

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I don't think Psn has to be added into the total. I think the 4 trophy types should to grouped separately.

Posted 1 month, 2 weeks ago

Post by xatmos (11 posts) See mini bio

348 ACH / 6490 P

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There's no problem if the game is multiplatform and on 360 or GFWL, just use those number correct? For PS3, omit platinum as someone said, and have the rest (bronze, silver, gold) scale per game so that the total points for the game totals 1000. Use a weighted scale so that bronze is worth a single unit, silver - double, and gold - triple (you can use different weights). So if theres 6 bronze, 10 silver, and 4 gold, that makes a weighted total of 6+10*2+4*3=38, divide the target total (1000) by the weighted number of achievements to determine the unit worth or the value of bronze achievements; double for silver, triple for gold. Easy and always equals 1000 or a little less if you truncate decimals. I don't actually have a PS3 so if this is totally stupid, my apologies.

Posted 1 month, 2 weeks ago

Post by jukezypoo (949 posts) See mini bio

1075 ACH / 25710 P

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@xatmos said:

" There's no problem if the game is multiplatform and on 360 or GFWL, just use those number correct? For PS3, omit platinum as someone said, and have the rest (bronze, silver, gold) scale per game so that the total points for the game totals 1000. Use a weighted scale so that bronze is worth a single unit, silver - double, and gold - triple (you can use different weights). So if theres 6 bronze, 10 silver, and 4 gold, that makes a weighted total of 6+10*2+4*3=38, divide the target total (1000) by the weighted number of achievements to determine the unit worth or the value of bronze achievements; double for silver, triple for gold. Easy and always equals 1000 or a little less if you truncate decimals. I don't actually have a PS3 so if this is totally stupid, my apologies. "

Hrm, that seems fine to me. Since there's less variation the value of trophies than there is in points for achievements, this wouldn't be throwing anything out of wack so much as it would be adjusting the system to fit GB's way of calculating scores.

Posted 1 month, 2 weeks ago

Post by NinjaHunter (317 posts) See mini bio

700 ACH / 9315 P

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@jakob187: Well, Giant Bomb wants to be able to compare everybody with a single score. So that people that have multiple consoles won't have to keep track of so many numbers.

Posted 1 month, 2 weeks ago

Post by MasturbatingBear (1,212 posts) See mini bio

544 ACH / 10505 P

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or just keep what actually works. Instead of implementing one of the horrible idea posted here.

Posted 1 month, 2 weeks ago

Post by MasterOfPenguins_Zell (1,332 posts) See mini bio

742 ACH / 14915 P

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I don't want to compare my trophies with my gamerscore, or my gamerscore with anyone else trophies. I want to just compare Gamerscore with Gamerscore and trophies with trophies.

The total GB gamerscore is pretty cool though.

Posted 1 month, 2 weeks ago

Post by PhaggyBigNastyMcKill (212 posts) See mini bio

1691 ACH / 32646 P

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@jakob187: You are totally missing the point that Jeff is trying to go for.

@MasturbatingBear said:

" or just keep what actually works. Instead of implementing one of the horrible idea posted here. "

Not not working now, in fact Jeff has stopped updating the PSN links until he gets it fixed.

Posted 1 month, 2 weeks ago

Post by EffMeHarderNi666Az (15 posts) See mini bio

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Instead of changing the PSN numbers only, why not have a conversion rate for all the systems to GB points?

Posted 1 month, 2 weeks ago

Post by Diamond (4,744 posts) See mini bio

2746 ACH / 51380 P

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@EffMeHarderNi666Az said:

" Instead of changing the PSN numbers only, why not have a conversion rate for all the systems to GB points? "

Probably would be the most balanced, but then you'd also be converting hundreds of 360 games achievements and the problem would be 4 times bigger

Posted 1 month, 2 weeks ago

Post by Shadow (1,676 posts) See mini bio

3879 ACH / 90004 P

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Bronze needs to be worth exactly half of silver, regardless of the way it's implemented, I think that would fix a lot of problems with the system.

Posted 1 month, 2 weeks ago

Post by ParaParaKing (14 posts) See mini bio

2510 ACH / 38411 P

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With
Bronze = 3pts
Silver = 6 pts
Gold = 18 pts
Platinum = 36
most games have a total of about 240 pts.

So if you multiply by 4 you get:
Bronze = 12 pts
Silver = 24 pts
Gold = 72 pts
Platinum = 144 pts
And every game gets roughly 1000 pts.

Or you could go the other route and say Platinum trophies are extra to the total resulting in
Bronze = 15
Silver = 30
Gold = 90
Platinum = set amount for completion bonus

Edited 1 month, 2 weeks ago

Post by Polypinoon (3 posts) See mini bio

219 ACH / 2870 P

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I don't wanna piss on your parade, but 4 times 240 equals 960, not 1000. You suck at math.

Posted 1 month, 1 week ago

Post by eroticfishcake (2,918 posts) See mini bio

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Also no PS3 trophy support for GB anymore.

Posted 1 month, 1 week ago

Post by pornstorestiffi (1,675 posts) See mini bio

2592 ACH / 51098 P

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@jakob187 said:

" Who said that the PSN stuff needs to be a system that's equivalent to XBL's? Make the PS3 stuff its own thing, and then make the XBL stuff what it already is. "

Excatley.

Posted 1 month, 1 week ago

Post by Kamasama (1,349 posts) See mini bio

220 ACH / 3400 P

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