44 Comments
Posted by MooseyMcMan

Cool!

Moderator
Edited by rockinrhino

danzig

Edited by yyZiggurat

I am not a fan of Ryan Payton. But I will listen to this episode anyway.

Posted by reignofevil666

Sweet, Loves me some 4 play.

Posted by Seb

Love this show.

Posted by Piqued_Interest

3 HOURS.

Edited by arch4non

I only buy games with sync animations.

Edited by hollitz

Think Ryan's arguments are pretty skewed. I like what he's trying to do, but I'm not really convinced that the kind of game he's making can work on the platform he's working with.

That aside, goddamn do I love me a 3-hour 8-4play.

Posted by PurpleSpandex

Who did I just download on my 3DS?

Posted by Akujin

WOOOO 3 Hour Cast! :)

Posted by Sergio

So many eye-rolls listening to Ryan Payton talk.

Edited by ErikSchroder

Not only is it hard to become a licensed Nintendo developer, but the actual dev kit machine costs about $2500. At least they removed the requirement of an office.

I wish my game company could afford that someday. I really want to make Nintendo games but I can't and those who can won't. Not really that fair.

Posted by GasparNolasco

This is my favorite Dark Souls Podcast!

Posted by Shaanyboi

lol wtf?? The WiiU isn't the best Netflix box, but the motherfucking 360 is??? Microsoft has butchered that interface and it is abysmal now.

Posted by Peanut

Been listening to soooo many back-episodes of Retronauts, so I'm in the mood for some Kohler bitching about Nintendo.

Edited by JZ

Man those two guests were amazing hipsters.

Posted by 7Force

@purplespandex: That's Jean Snow, he's a *huge* fan of the Tomodachi Collection games...

Posted by Anwar

Finally I can get my DkS 2 fix.

Posted by dropabombonit

Great episode with great guests

Posted by Abendlaender

I love 8-4 but the "I don't want to target only 10 Million people, I want my game to become an international phenomenon and 100 Million people will play it, just like Angry Birds" dude was kinda annoying.

Posted by Vaancor

@7force: Thanks, was curious who the hell I just added to my Mii collection to.

Posted by pyrodactyl

I love 8-4 but the "I don't want to target only 10 Million people, I want my game to become an international phenomenon and 100 Million people will play it, just like Angry Birds" dude was kinda annoying.

His doomsday prophet vibe regarding the future of console gaming vs mobile games was what put me off the most. The fact that no one came up with a good counter argument agains it was also super frustrating.

Guess the discussion that ensued was interesting though. Even if a future of nothing but iphone/androide and f2p games freaks the shit out of me.

Posted by MonkeyKing1969

Consoles in Trouble?

To be honest I think console/PC gaming is fine because there will always be a core group of 200+ million people worldwide playing console games, and when the economy is good that number could be 300 Million. Sure, half those people (more?) are sometimes playing last gen consoles, not buying many games, but then the other millions are there for new systems and for new games. There is always a churn of people into the "hobby of games" that are sufficient for a good market. That market shrinks and grows slowly, but it never is gone nor is it ever huge. Anyone who talks about a "The Crash" or "Remember 83" is a dope. Gamers & games didn't go away!!!! The people into gaming took that $200 they could have used on a Atari or Coleco and bought a computer. Tandy, Commodore or Apple rose like rockets. In the UK or Europe peopel bought Sinclair ZX81 or the like. Consoles didn't crash, people just bought a computer. Gaming just chugged along while a new paradigm of game makers rolled over.

The volatile scary market is mobile games or casual games. People in that market are 70% non-gamers or very casual gamers. Such people mostly will play a game for months, but then never play another game again. Or they will play one game a year and their TOTAL investment into gaming is about $5. Its a huge market hundred of millions, but hugely volatile as well. Its a gold-rush economy, you are either in it at the right moment or you are too late. Big winner and mostly losers litter that market. Also, when it all clears out the winners who are no crazy are the folks selling supplies to that market. In a gold rush it is best to be the "supply store" owner. Sell risk to chumps while you rake in steady money.

This gloom & doom of consoles dying is dumb. Anyone who talks about another "Crash" or "Remember 83" is a dope. Nineteen Eight-Three was a not a crash gamers & games didn't go away!!!! The people into gaming took that $200 they could have used on a Atari or Coleco and bought a computer. Tandy, Commodore or Apple rose like rockets. In the UK or Europe people bought Sinclair ZX81 or the like. Consoles didn't crash, people just bought a computer. Gaming just chugged along while a new paradigm of game makers rolled over. What the "losers" called a crash, was just computers grabbing the money. The developer who lost their shirts were just idiots who didn't watch the rise of the computer with any interest. There was a path for the losers in 1983, but most didn't follow it. TAKE AWAY: Well, it sucks to be blind to YOUR OWN market, I guess.

There will always be 'video gamers' who will play, and they will play on many devices. The point is they don't go away and their needs for complex substantial games is always there. You will NEVER see all console/PC gamers switch to mobile exclusively. Does that mean you won't grab you console off the desk and shove it in your pocket when you catch the bus...nope that could happen...probably will happen. But at the end of the day in 2021 there will be a consoles (size/shape who cares) that will play substantial complex games. There will be a place for such games and for people who make them. If anything tells us there won't be crash it is that EA, Ubisoft, Activison, Sony, Capcom and others do see tablets, smartphones, handhelds as a market. They all won't switch gears well or successful to survive, but most will be there. So, the games will churn out on devices people own and things will chugg along.

Posted by Jolt92

Ryan Payton was super awesome, Chris too, Apple talk as well. Keep it up!

Great episode with great guests

Posted by Blind_Evil

"The N64 was a pretty successful platform," is probably the least accurate thing ever uttered on 8-4play, and that is really saying something.

Posted by ArbitraryWater

I love 8-4 but the "I don't want to target only 10 Million people, I want my game to become an international phenomenon and 100 Million people will play it, just like Angry Birds" dude was kinda annoying.

Pretty much.

Edited by SomeJerk

I started caring for mobile phone gaming when the N-Gage came. Way to make me feel ancient.

Must be said, 2K decided the WiiU was a kiddy console before the launch lineup was even revealed.. or was that Take2, or both?

Edited by Peanut

Maaaaan. Fuck Ryan Payton. Super annoying.

Edited by doe3879

the bashing of the Monster Hunter trailer talk is quite embarrassing.

Posted by mrfluke

@peanut said:

Maaaaan. Fuck Ryan Payton. Super annoying.

Seriouslyyyy, and i backed that fucker's game on kickstarter as well. wouldnt have backed him if i knew he would become so pretentious.

Dude's ego has grown tremendously, dude needs to remember his kickstarter barely succeeded and they havent put out a game yet. no way he earns that ego.

and also kinda throwing microsoft (his former boss) under the bus by saying he doesnt like how they run things.

Edited by mrfluke

I love 8-4 but the "I don't want to target only 10 Million people, I want my game to become an international phenomenon and 100 Million people will play it, just like Angry Birds" dude was kinda annoying.

he is grossly overestimating his chances, totally different market of consumers on the app store.

angry birds succeeds cause its a "10 second game" people can play it and put it down like that.

he's comparing his chances to something like the walking dead on ios, when that game kind of disappeared from the top 100 list

Posted by Abendlaender

@mrfluke said:

@abendlaender said:

I love 8-4 but the "I don't want to target only 10 Million people, I want my game to become an international phenomenon and 100 Million people will play it, just like Angry Birds" dude was kinda annoying.

he is grossly overestimating his chances, totally different market of consumers on the app store.

angry birds succeeds cause its a "10 second game" people can play it and put it down like that.

he's comparing his chances to something like the walking dead on ios, when that game kind of disappeared from the top 100 list

Yep. Games like Year Walk or The Room are not the topselling apps on the App-Store, it's stuff like Cut The Rope or Where's my water. And there is nothing wrong with that, cause those are the games you can just play on the bus or wherever. But something rather complex like Repulique? Yeah, good luck with that. I don't think that's an indicator for anything, but they only hit their Kickstarter goal after promising a PC version of this game, so yeah.

Also, is the App-Store really that open? This is an honest question cause I have no idea, but I can't really see a difference.

Posted by mrfluke

@mrfluke said:

@abendlaender said:

I love 8-4 but the "I don't want to target only 10 Million people, I want my game to become an international phenomenon and 100 Million people will play it, just like Angry Birds" dude was kinda annoying.

he is grossly overestimating his chances, totally different market of consumers on the app store.

angry birds succeeds cause its a "10 second game" people can play it and put it down like that.

he's comparing his chances to something like the walking dead on ios, when that game kind of disappeared from the top 100 list

Yep. Games like Year Walk or The Room are not the topselling apps on the App-Store, it's stuff like Cut The Rope or Where's my water. And there is nothing wrong with that, cause those are the games you can just play on the bus or wherever. But something rather complex like Repulique? Yeah, good luck with that. I don't think that's an indicator for anything, but they only hit their Kickstarter goal after promising a PC version of this game, so yeah.

Also, is the App-Store really that open? This is an honest question cause I have no idea, but I can't really see a difference.

if your comparing the app-store to the android one then yea the app store is very closed and very curated, while you can put up whatevs on the android store

ill give you an example, there are a bunch of emulators on the android store while there are 0 emulators on the app store.

Edited by mrfluke

@mrfluke said:

@abendlaender said:

I love 8-4 but the "I don't want to target only 10 Million people, I want my game to become an international phenomenon and 100 Million people will play it, just like Angry Birds" dude was kinda annoying.

he is grossly overestimating his chances, totally different market of consumers on the app store.

angry birds succeeds cause its a "10 second game" people can play it and put it down like that.

he's comparing his chances to something like the walking dead on ios, when that game kind of disappeared from the top 100 list

But something rather complex like Repulique? Yeah, good luck with that. I don't think that's an indicator for anything, but they only hit their Kickstarter goal after promising a PC version of this game, so yeah.

.

yea i forgot about that, he totally doesn't earn the ego thats on display on the podcast.

especially even saying how he doesnt like how microsoft is doing things when his last job was working for microsoft (kinda throwing them under the bus)

Edited by putermcgee

Also, is the App-Store really that open? This is an honest question cause I have no idea, but I can't really see a difference.

It's open in the sense that anyone with an iPhone and willing to fork over $100 for a developer license can make a game. That's a big difference from having to apply for and buy a very costly dev kit for consoles... though, maybe that has changed in recent year?

However, it's not completely open. Apple's approval process has been known to make little sense at times. Yes, stupid apps get approved all the time, and for-real apps get denied with little-to-no explanation. It's generally decent from what I've hear, though.

Posted by StillPlaying

Yeah I love this podcast, and I love how long they are. I also used to like Ryan Payton but the way he was talking, specifically during the console discussion really made me doubt his awareness and participation of console game playing.

He started his point about console decline by siting the bad sales of Gears and God of War (you better believe that's predominantly fatigue/no one cares about games that look half-assed from a mile away) but then he says it's more concerning that Tomb Raider and Bioshock aren't selling... :-| Does he work for Square's financial department? I thought we had all established that TR sold very well outside of Square's awful "expectations." Also, it has come out that Bioshock sold nearly a million copies in five days. I'll be the first to admit I sometimes go down my own train of bullshit thoughts about things I don't know that much about, but I gotta say it sounded like Ryan is so distanced from this market that he's kind of just pulling things out of the air without any real way to put it into an actual argument. Which was why this part of the show was SO HARD TO LISTEN TO! I would certainly have expected Gaming Jesus to have countered his points a little bit.

Also the point about console instal bases is a bit curious. Microsoft has gone to extraordinary efforts to court people who wouldn't normally buy consoles with all the media support and of course Kinect. Add to that the unknown number of people just re-buying a 360 to upgrade or replace a broken unit and it's completely ridiculous to expect these games to sell 10 million. Seriously, Black Ops is the best selling 360 game of all time and it's at 12 Million. It's all relative to how these things perform within this specific market, not relative to mobile games numbers. I know Ryan's smart but I suspect his thoughts on this come from where he's at as a gamer and as a developer, which is clearly not anywhere near consoles.

Edited by RichieJohn

@stillplaying: It's not the way anyone wants it to be but if Square say Tomb Raider didn't sell enough then it didn't sell enough.

It sucks but it's their money.

Edited by apoc_reg

Best podcast available about games!!!

Posted by erockarmychk

Pretty Good Episode

Posted by Thoseposers

Just wanted to comment and say that i've recently started listening to the podcast because of seeing gaming jesus during the giant bomb gdc livestream and i'm loving it all, good job duders :D

When it comes to handhelds i'm really interested in seeing how younger generations react to them in the future. Considering a lot of nintendo's strategies focus on nostalgia and stuff i wonder how effective that'll be when these kids that are playing shitty iphone games grow up.

Posted by BisonHero

@abendlaender said:

@mrfluke said:

@abendlaender said:

I love 8-4 but the "I don't want to target only 10 Million people, I want my game to become an international phenomenon and 100 Million people will play it, just like Angry Birds" dude was kinda annoying.

he is grossly overestimating his chances, totally different market of consumers on the app store.

angry birds succeeds cause its a "10 second game" people can play it and put it down like that.

he's comparing his chances to something like the walking dead on ios, when that game kind of disappeared from the top 100 list

Yep. Games like Year Walk or The Room are not the topselling apps on the App-Store, it's stuff like Cut The Rope or Where's my water. And there is nothing wrong with that, cause those are the games you can just play on the bus or wherever. But something rather complex like Repulique? Yeah, good luck with that. I don't think that's an indicator for anything, but they only hit their Kickstarter goal after promising a PC version of this game, so yeah.

Also, is the App-Store really that open? This is an honest question cause I have no idea, but I can't really see a difference.

I'm right with you guys. Sure, shoot for a big audience by releasing Republique on the App Store, but come the fuck on. Payton's game A) requires paying attention for more than 90 seconds at a time, B) requires actually remembering some narrative from a previous play session, C) would benefit greatly from you wearing headphones while playing it, and D) will probably cost actual money. Congratulations! You've just ruled out about 99% of the 100 million people who get games from the app store! Your game makes no sense for the marketplace!

iOS is a terrible place for that sort of game. It's not like these people are going to have some eye-opening moment. The entire manner in which they want to play iOS games is to fill time, and they want something fun, straightforward, and that doesn't really require audio because they're probably at work or school or public transit or something. Republique is none of those things.

I guarantee it will sell wildly better on PC (and maybe even Mac).

Edited by BisonHero

@doe3879 said:

the bashing of the Monster Hunter trailer talk is quite embarrassing.

Haha, absolutely. Bitching out a bunch of nitpicky minutia from the trailer, about "even the music sounding like it was made by a bunch of high schoolers" was just sad, when TONS of JRPG music has been bland orchestral/rock scores this generation. Maybe this is a cultural difference, but Monster Hunter already phones in all of its endless rereleases of the same game with the same graphics but like "OOOH a new monster and a single new weapon", so I really don't see why it should be so shocking that they're putting especially little effort into the look of this online Chinese Monster Hunter. It is not a series known for innovation since establishing its initial overall gameplay design.

Sometimes 8-4 Play fanboys out a little too hard. Also, whoever on the podcast said that Nintendo might tease the next console Zelda at E3 is nuts, when Nintendo already has LttP 2 and Wind Waker HD to release. This E3 is the least likely E3 possible for them to announce any new Zelda.

Other than all that, and Ryan Payton having no understanding of how poorly his game suits the audience of the App Store and that it will inevitably do much better on PC, I think 8-4 had some pretty interesting discussions this week!

Edited by Anwar

Man, they played me, I've waited and waited and oh boy, did I want to hear their opinions about Dark Souls 2 and what do I get? It was a great podcast nonetheless, but they didn't really talk about DkS 2 at all.

Oh and those memes in Guacamelee are from Reddit and not from 4chan, just kidding.