25 Comments
Edited by bassman2112

"More details to come"

Microsoft's slogan for the past several months.

Edit: Also, good questions, Patrick. I personally don't feel like Marc Whitten actually answered your last few questions, though. For example, saying "we have a plan for the next few years" doesn't really say whether devs are able to alter their prices haha. Regardless, thank you for the interview!

Edited by Laxaloot

"More details to come"

"More details to come"

"More details to come"

"More details to come"

"More details to come"

"More details to come"

"More details to come"

"More details to come"

"More details to come"

Edit:

They sound like such corporate robots. it makes me sad.

Posted by tmarg

"More details to come" means "We didn't want to do this, but we realized we were completely fucked if we didn't, so we're just making it up as we go along".

Posted by TheManWithNoPlan

This is definitely a step in the right direction.

Edited by spraynardtatum

About time. Hopefully Indie devs can set their own pricing.

Posted by Coolarman

I love how this generation of consoles is turning into a fucking bloodbath between sony and microsoft.

In the end consumers win

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Edited by DFSVegas

@tmarg said:

"More details to come" means "We didn't want to do this, but we realized we were completely fucked if we didn't, so we're just making it up as we go along".

People keep saying this like it's a bad thing. As if staying the course is a more noble act.

We beg these companies to listen to us, and when we do, we knock them for "Making it up as they go along"... GOOD! THAT'S A GOOD THING!

What do you people want? Shit policies, or a company that's flexible?

Posted by Fobwashed

My biggest question with all this is what the gateway to actually appear on the Xbone in any form will be.

On XBLIG for the 360, there was a pretty nice peer review process where you had to get clearance from fellow indie game developers prior to being allowed to "launch" on the XBLIG store. This process, while not nearly as rigorous as certification for XBLA, was pretty damn thorough with its own checklist of things your game had to handle properly like removing and insterting memory cards, various controllers and gameplay related requirements such as how long you can have nothing going on at all during load screens. With MS ditching XNA, I'm not sure where that leaves us.

On XNA, devs knew that if they made a game, no matter what, as long as they got through the peer review the game would go up for sale on XBLIG. If you are no longer sure whether or not a game you are developing will actually make it onto the console's market place, it's a way harder decision to develop for that console. Especially for indies with less resources.

Posted by DJJoeJoe

@dfsvegas said:

@tmarg said:

"More details to come" means "We didn't want to do this, but we realized we were completely fucked if we didn't, so we're just making it up as we go along".

People keep saying this like it's a bad thing. As if staying the course is a more noble act.

We beg these companies to listen to us, and when we do, we knock them for "Making it up as they go along"... GOOD! THAT'S A GOOD THING!

What do you people want? Shit policies, or a company that's flexible?

You're right, though this is the internet and just the way it operates really brings out any/all of the worst things that people can talk about. I can't really see a healthy individual taking the time to say nice things about something like video game console policies from a mega corp... why would that person devote that time to that when they are most likely going to read about this stuff then move on like a healthy happy person does, or maybe they didn't even hear about it cause they weren't paying attention... cause who actually cares other than the people directly affected (developers).

It's vastly more doable for someone who just wants to talk and has either neutral opinion or has ANY sort of poor opinion about something to have the energy it takes to talk about it via typing a few words up on some internet location. We all want to be heard in some way or another and that is by far the easiest way to let out that steam, maximum possible gain for minimal efforts etc.

I'm fortunate enough to have been a dickhead when I was in middle/high school and stopped being so just slightly before the kids around me, and seeing it happen around me didn't pull me back in but instead forced me to see how disgusting it is to talk about almost anything in a negative light in a public forum, it's rare that anything truly meaningful comes from something like that and an overwhelming majority of the content on the net IS that... so many comments written by so many people just to let out a bit of their own personal darkness all adds up to the whole internet being a real sad place if you aren't willing to jump over it constantly.

I don't mean to be saying anything with this, it's just being said by me for the same reasons anyone types anything on the internet... I just am in the right mood and have the right amount of need to say something. So here it is and I'm thankful it's not ugly.

Posted by Maluvin

I'm trying to decide whether this announcement is really directed at indie devs or gamers who like indie games. The claim that every X1 can be a dev kit (eventually) sounds great but I'd like to hear from some actual coders as to whether that sounds realistic or not in terms of power and development tools. If they offer the same tools to indies that AAA players will have access to I'll be impressed but at this juncture I'll wait and see whether this merits actual enthusiasm on my part. =/

Posted by flippyandnod

I wouldn't freak out about this too much. This is the same as with iOS and in a way the same as XNA. Any device can be used as a dev kit, but not without permission.

In order to do so you will have to get your app signed specially for that device. Once that is done it will not run on any other device.

The company thus controls which devices you can run it on. The question really comes down to what their policies are. Like Apple, they are not going to let you run your own code on everyone's devices without submitting it to their store because they don't get paid if it isn't sold through their channels. So no, engadget, this won't have "Minecraft-esque implications".

This will be very similar to Apple's app store (or for that matter the Windows App Store). And the PS4 will be the same way. You want to make an app/game and send it to your closest 50 friends? Sign up as a developer and put their machines on your seed list. Want to vend it to everyone? You'll have to get it approved. The real question is how approval works.

Posted by tmarg

@dfsvegas: If you constantly have to keep putting on your consumer activist hat over the fuckups of the same company over and over again, then it isn't working. Even if they eventually change some of the policies.

Frankly, it's getting tiring. I'm sick of having to watch the internet explode every time a company does something boneheaded, and I'm sick of having to pat them on the back whenever they eventually do something right.

Posted by logicbus

Why don't people bitch and moan about how they can't sell their used copy XBLA games like Castle Crashers or Limbo?

Posted by Benmo316

I can't wait for Patrick to have an interview where at least some of his questions get legit answers. It's frustrating for me to listen to this I can't imagine how frustrated Patrick gets.

Posted by Noogy

@maluvin said:

I'm trying to decide whether this announcement is really directed at indie devs or gamers who like indie games. The claim that every X1 can be a dev kit (eventually) sounds great but I'd like to hear from some actual coders as to whether that sounds realistic or not in terms of power and development tools. If they offer the same tools to indies that AAA players will have access to I'll be impressed but at this juncture I'll wait and see whether this merits actual enthusiasm on my part. =/

Sure, Microsoft did this last time on the 360. I spent the majority of my time developing on a retail kit, only adding XBLA specific items at the end with a dev unit.

This is awesome news, as there's nothing quite like seeing your code running on a console. Say what you will of XBIG, but it was a fantastic setup for developers. I will even say I preferred working on the retail unit vs. a dev kit, since those tools were newer. It's going to be great for developers.

Posted by Scotto

@dfsvegas said:

@tmarg said:

"More details to come" means "We didn't want to do this, but we realized we were completely fucked if we didn't, so we're just making it up as we go along".

People keep saying this like it's a bad thing. As if staying the course is a more noble act.

We beg these companies to listen to us, and when we do, we knock them for "Making it up as they go along"... GOOD! THAT'S A GOOD THING!

What do you people want? Shit policies, or a company that's flexible?

The fanboys on both sides also really need to tone it the fuck down. The decisions Sony made have been good so far, but they aren't your friend - they are in this industry to make a fuckload of money, and all information indicates some of their decisions were made late, specifically with "fucking Microsoft" in mind. And that's great - consumers win in this scenario! But please keep in mind, that this is not altruism on Sony's part.

Also, people who are viewing this as though Microsoft need to be "punished", even after their multiple policy changes, are nuts. This is the system working, people. Microsoft could have doubled down on their nonsense policies, but they didn't. They could have been non-responsive to the wishes of indie devs, but they weren't. These are good things.

As someone who plans to buy both consoles, and owns all of the current gen systems, I couldn't be happier to see Microsoft responding to consumers. And when Sony fuck up again in the future, as they inevitably will, I hope they quickly learn as well. We all win when both companies are healthy, and competing.

I'll never understand the "hurr durr XBOX One-80" people. Would they be more pleased if Microsoft were stubbornly consistent with their DRM and publishing plans?

Edited by Shingro

@scotto said:

The fanboys on both sides also really need to tone it the fuck down. The decisions Sony made have been good so far, but they aren't your friend - they are in this industry to make a fuckload of money, and all information indicates some of their decisions were made late, specifically with "fucking Microsoft" in mind. And that's great - consumers win in this scenario! But please keep in mind, that this is not altruism on Sony's part.

Sure, but you can't just dismiss the culture of a company out of hand. I've got the choice between two companies.

A scant few months ago one of those companies tried to strong arm my ownership rights away to boost publisher profit margins. It took them getting mauled in preorder numbers before they relented, in market terms the consumers had to cock a loaded gun directly in front of their faces for them to stop.

The other company has broken it's spine in 3 places bending over backwards to give a good price, good policies, good variety in game types and most importantly

***

PUTTING CUSTOMERS BEFORE PUBLISHERS WHEN THE PUBLISHERS APPLIED PRESSURE TO THEM

***

I don't think it's possible to overstate how crazy that is. It was so crazy almost no experienced member of the industry thought they would do that. They did it because they want my money? Who fucking cares? When push came to shove they stepped up for the consumer. So yeah, they get my money this time and are welcome to it.

Microsoft has a lot of trust to earn back, and they don't get it back because they said "I'm sorry officer honest" they need to build a record, and they're trying, but personally I'm not impressed by them bending on policy immediately *after* they got their teeth kicked in. I'll be impressed when they're in a position of strength again and they continue to bend policies to suit the consumer, so far all they've got are promises and pretty words, and that doesn't buy much in my house. If they step up and SHOW me they know what I want? THEN we'll see about their system and not a moment before.

Edited by ch3burashka

@logicbus said:

Why don't people bitch and moan about how they can't sell their used copy XBLA games like Castle Crashers or Limbo?

Because people are dumb and stupid.

I especially love that, after killing the whole initiative, someone created a petition to get them to bring it back.

Edited by lead_farmer

I think there might be more details to come. Can't say for sure.

Edited by AMyggen

@scotto said:

@dfsvegas said:

@tmarg said:

"More details to come" means "We didn't want to do this, but we realized we were completely fucked if we didn't, so we're just making it up as we go along".

People keep saying this like it's a bad thing. As if staying the course is a more noble act.

We beg these companies to listen to us, and when we do, we knock them for "Making it up as they go along"... GOOD! THAT'S A GOOD THING!

What do you people want? Shit policies, or a company that's flexible?

The fanboys on both sides also really need to tone it the fuck down. The decisions Sony made have been good so far, but they aren't your friend - they are in this industry to make a fuckload of money, and all information indicates some of their decisions were made late, specifically with "fucking Microsoft" in mind. And that's great - consumers win in this scenario! But please keep in mind, that this is not altruism on Sony's part.

Also, people who are viewing this as though Microsoft need to be "punished", even after their multiple policy changes, are nuts. This is the system working, people. Microsoft could have doubled down on their nonsense policies, but they didn't. They could have been non-responsive to the wishes of indie devs, but they weren't. These are good things.

As someone who plans to buy both consoles, and owns all of the current gen systems, I couldn't be happier to see Microsoft responding to consumers. And when Sony fuck up again in the future, as they inevitably will, I hope they quickly learn as well. We all win when both companies are healthy, and competing.

I'll never understand the "hurr durr XBOX One-80" people. Would they be more pleased if Microsoft were stubbornly consistent with their DRM and publishing plans?

This is why I will never understand the "too little, too late" crowd when it comes to the X1. The thing won't be released for about 4 months yet, so how can it be too late?! I get the complaint about the "corporate culture", but not really; I think it generally boils down to the fanboy culture on the internet. A lot of people decided that MS was the devil for the initial plans for the X1, and when they've changed those plans, those people just fall back on "but they're just waiting to fuck us over again, man".

I'll probably buy a PS4 first, mostly for the price and because I have more faith in Sony's ability to make good first party games, but I applaud MS for listening to the consumers.

Edited by THRICE_604

@dfsvegas said:

@tmarg said:

"More details to come" means "We didn't want to do this, but we realized we were completely fucked if we didn't, so we're just making it up as we go along".

People keep saying this like it's a bad thing. As if staying the course is a more noble act.

We beg these companies to listen to us, and when we do, we knock them for "Making it up as they go along"... GOOD! THAT'S A GOOD THING!

What do you people want? Shit policies, or a company that's flexible?

People want Microsoft to have stayed the course so they would fail spectacularly. As much as they needed to learn from this properly having a catastrophic failure would have been bad for the industry. I'm glad they are changing so much stuff and they are getting closer to a product I would want. They are still a ways off but progress is good.

For me they have no games. None of the launch exclusives look good and outside of potentially Halo 5 next year nothing coming up. I have little faith in MS Studio's first party to hope something unknown can crop up the same way I could with say Naughty Dog or Sony Santa Monica either.

And the price is still pretty gross. I wouldn't buy a 360 till it hit $300 and I waited on the PS3 till it hit $400 for the premium model. $500 when they are justifying the cost with Kinect which I have absolutely no desire to use just won't do. If they slashed the price to $400 I'd start considering. If they ditched Kinect and went down to $300 I'd buy one just to have it. This is the final piece of the 180 I am waiting for. But it seems almost impossible for them to budge. But then again no one guessed they would do what they have done already.

Posted by HellknightLeon

Wow you guys type so freaking much... just saying. Yeah... this is... nothing?

Posted by MonkeyKing1969

Okay, great they will allow self publishing and they will bring their services in line with (the system which shall not be named). That all great. But, no, we are not supposed to applaud them. This was just common logic, and no speeding up the process should just get a firm nod of the head because they last few years of MS dragging its feet over certification or charging out the nose to post bug fix updates was STUPID.

All Microsoft is doing (or is likely to do) is fine as far as it goes, but it is just bring them to where they should have been years and months ago. When does Microsoft stary giving above and beyond they expected? When do they make a gesture that just benefits all and puts a smile on a gamers face instead of grudging giving merely what makes sense and what is fair.

Yeah, I get it, apologizing and changing what they wanted to do is difficult, embarrashing, and not just a tint bit confusing. It is no fun for the Marc Whitten to constantly to be having to explain changes in positions and gaffs of strategy to the public and media when two months agao he was forced to say how GREAT all their ideas were. But that is where Microsoft is right now, they dug this hole outside their offices in Redmond, and it is still THEIR JOB to climb back out of it too. It not our fault the hole is dirty, tiring, and soul-crushingly deep because they were bull_hiting about how great their ideas were.

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