Gaming is a highly competitive subculture, generally online and/or in "macho" shooter games, but nonetheless we're a competitive bunch, no matter what is being played. Now, a little competition never hurt anyone, but being over-competitive is a problem. I'm sure everyone at some point in their life has encountered "That Guy", the one who can't accept losing or being corrected. I certainly have, and I exhibit those characteristics myself more than I would like. But the desire to be the best, to excel, seems to drive people who play games more so than most; sometimes people are driven so far they ascend beyond the game, reaching a level where they have forgotten the point of the game, and play-- no longer for entertainment-- but simply for victory, be it over other players, or even just the computer.

As an example, one need look no farther than the Pokemon series, and the recently released Pokemon Platinum. Most people reading this were no older than teenagers when the original Pokemon Red/Blue released (Except for Claude. But he's a kid at heart, and we love him for it), and I don't imagine most of us played it super seriously. Sure, attempting to fill the Pokedex was fun and rewarding, but no one I knew ever actually did it. Nowadays, filling the Pokedex is nothing but the beginning for the true trainers out there. Teams are specifically honed for battle, people obsessively breed pokemon to get the best traits, and don't even get me started on EV/IV training. People are using spreadsheets to determine which Pokemon to catch, breed, and train in order to build the optimal killing machine. But that's entirely missing the joy of the game; all enjoyment that could be derived is removed, and replaced by what is, in essence, a calculator; it doesn't see a Pikachu or a Charizard, it simply sees the numbers. People who play Pokemon this way enrage me. It's as if this wonderful, exciting, and diverse game that Nintendo has built is almost worthless- they ignore the huge variety of pokemon to catch, places to explore, and things to do in the world and instead focus on making six beastly pokemon that they can use to beat little kids in tournaments with. I understand there is a competitive scene and element to Pokemon, but I feel as though these people are destroying a great entertainment experience for a competitive experience, and there's really no doubt as to which of those is superior.

Please direct your attention to "Second Panel Guy"

Gaming is a highly competitive subculture, generally online and/or in "macho" shooter games, but nonetheless we're a competitive bunch, no matter what is being played. Now, a little competition never hurt anyone, but being over-competitive is a problem. I'm sure everyone at some point in their life has encountered "That Guy", the one who can't accept losing or being corrected. I certainly have, and I exhibit those characteristics myself more than I would like. But the desire to be the best, to excel, seems to drive people who play games more so than most; sometimes people are driven so far they ascend beyond the game, reaching a level where they have forgotten the point of the game, and play-- no longer for entertainment-- but simply for victory, be it over other players, or even just the computer.

As an example, one need look no farther than the Pokemon series, and the recently released Pokemon Platinum. Most people reading this were no older than teenagers when the original Pokemon Red/Blue released (Except for Claude. But he's a kid at heart, and we love him for it), and I don't imagine most of us played it super seriously. Sure, attempting to fill the Pokedex was fun and rewarding, but no one I knew ever actually did it. Nowadays, filling the Pokedex is nothing but the beginning for the true trainers out there. Teams are specifically honed for battle, people obsessively breed pokemon to get the best traits, and don't even get me started on EV/IV training. People are using spreadsheets to determine which Pokemon to catch, breed, and train in order to build the optimal killing machine. But that's entirely missing the joy of the game; all enjoyment that could be derived is removed, and replaced by what is, in essence, a calculator; it doesn't see a Pikachu or a Charizard, it simply sees the numbers. People who play Pokemon this way enrage me. It's as if this wonderful, exciting, and diverse game that Nintendo has built is almost worthless- they ignore the huge variety of pokemon to catch, places to explore, and things to do in the world and instead focus on making six beastly pokemon that they can use to beat little kids in tournaments with. I understand there is a competitive scene and element to Pokemon, but I feel as though these people are destroying a great entertainment experience for a competitive experience, and there's really no doubt as to which of those is superior.

Please direct your attention to "Second Panel Guy"

So very right about the crazy IV training Lies. It is super rewarding. Seriously though, good blog.

Great blawg dawg.
I had never heard of that IV training thing until now, seems like a good way to win, but doesnt sound very fun..

Yeah but unfortunately it's all because of egos. I'm no psychologist but some People WANT to be the best, to feeel superior and to have power (i.e a better BR) over another. And thats where it all stems from. these people are out to convince themselves that they are "pro" and really really good at the game, and to do that they do things like believing their playstyle (coughMLGcough) is superior to all others, when in reality it's just another gametype. And they need that 50 no matter what so they can continue believing they are the best of the best. And of course when you beat them at the game, you shake them out of their dream world, and they desperately try to crawl back in by passing you off as a "noob", despite the fact you beat them, and how you were lagging (despite having host), and above all how you -blam!- suck all you can do is *INSERT PEFECTLY LEGITIMATE STRATEGY HERE* you -blam!- *INSERT GENERIC INSULT HERE*

And that is why i believe people always say that games with less competitive atmospheres (forza, graw) where people are just out to HAVE SOME FUN have better communities, although really it's usually just a case of being able to avoid those people.


And Enjoyment lies broken and dead on the floor for these people.  IF only these people could appreciate how EXCITING AND FUN different gametypes are. But they no longer play for fun. There are also "inbetweenies", people who are competitive yet not entirely lost in a little world of their own where they are the greatest ever where all that matters is BR AND SNIPERRRR

Oh and i'll leave these 2 exciting threads here:

Guess what, the game is about enjoyment!!!

And most epic of all threads


Well, i hope you see the angle im coming from here. Thank you and goodnight

Oh and for good measure, see this relevant blog post of mine. It's a long read, i warn you

gaming is serious business

Lies, I completely respect your opinion regarding MLG and you're certainly entitled to it, but I think you're a bit mislead. As the top contributor to that MLG page you linked -- and as a person who has been involved with the league for a few years now and has attended several of the league's live events -- I'd like to help you understand a few things I think you've got wrong about the league, so that you might view it in a more positive light.

1. Playing a game for enjoyment and playing a game competitively are not mutually exclusive. Far from it actually -- the pro players who are at the top of the league ranks are all huge Halo fans. The reason that MLG was even founded in the first place, back in the Halo 1 days, was because a bunch of people who were passionate fans of the game wanted to get together with other rabid fans and have a good time. I can tell you, from talking to many of the pro players in person and attending MLG events myself, that if you don't have a love for the game, you don't play MLG. There aren't many players who force themselves to play the game because they think it's their job, and I guarantee you that each and every one of them relishes the fact that they are able to play the game they love for money and fame. To you, gaming long hours through the night and taking every match seriously may not be fun, but I guarantee you that it is fun to some people.

Which brings me to my second point...

2. Your definition of fun is not everyone else's definition of fun. I'm sure you're aware of this, but some players enjoy playing Infection and Rocket Race all day, some prefer the slightly more organized and competitive aspect of Ranked matchmaking, and some play MLG customs for 6 hours a day to practice for tournaments. But, that's the beauty of Halo -- it's a flexible and robust game that allows for all types of play-styles, and for people to choose what they enjoy most. Are MLG players elitists? Yes, but so are all the other Halo fans out there. There are a lot of people who think that MLG settings are superior to all else, yet there are also people who think that Rocket Race is the greatest game ever concieved, or that Squad Battle is the pinnacle of great gameplay. Everyone has their preferences when it comes to the game, and it's unfair to begrudge them of their favorite play-style just because they think it's better than yours. You contradict yourself when you claim MLG fans are elitists, and then dismiss them because they remove the equipment and vehicles that make the game "interesting" and "entertaining" in your eyes. Just because you find certain aspects of the game to be fun doesn't mean that anyone else has to, and that's fine -- in fact, that's Halo.

3. Just a few more things to clear up:

- All of the changes that the MLG settings make to default play (BR starts, faster player movement, removal of equipment, etc.) are intended to make the game more balanced and to minimize randomness. When a game is being played in a tournament atmosphere, with money on the line, chance and luck shouldn't play a deciding role in the outcome of a game. I know most people think that MLG is just trying to simplify the game because they "hate noobs" or something silly like that, but I assure you that their discrimination against certain weapons and equipment comes from their desire for a fair result to every game, as opposed one that is decided by inconsistencies in the game's engine. Shadowrun, a game that had a short run on the MLG circuit but sadly didn't have a high enough population of players to endure, is filled with all kinds of crazy magic spells, tech items, and assorted weapons; however, MLG didn't restrict any of those elements of gameplay because the game was already very well-balanced with those items in place. If those unused weapons and pieces of equipment in Halo 3 were better balanced for competitive play, they would be used.

-Vehicles aren't used primarily because MLG matches are 4v4 and played on smaller maps, so they are therefore not useful. The logistics of hosting a 6v6 or 8v8 competition at a live tournament make it an extreme challenge to have such an event, therefore the larger, vehicle-based maps aren't used.

-There is a significant difference between an "MLG kid" that you might encounter in Matchmaking, and a player who actually attends MLG events and is involved in the community. As I explained to Crunch in another thread, the people who buy the MLG gamerpics and yell at you for picking up the Sniper in a game and act like arrogant douchebags are not reflective of the league as a whole -- they represent the lowest common denominator of MLG fans, and most of them won't ever step through the door at a live tournament. I've met some of the nicest and coolest people I know through MLG events, and I can tell you from personal experience that all of the pro players are down-to-earth, friendly guys, who aren't at all arrogant jerks.

-And finally, the reason competitive players "reject" Blackout (:P). Simply, it isn't the same as Lockout. To say that the only difference between the two are a few missing jumps and a few snags in the map's geometry that make grenade throws tricky isn't accurate -- if those were the only problems, then Blackout Oddball would be in MLG's v6 settings. No, the problem lies in the differences between the two maps' respective designs. Blackout makes several small changes to the near-perfect layout of Lockout that hamper player movement and limit lines of sight that were just fine to begin with (ie. Library window is closed, it's no longer a straight shot from S1 to BR1, etc.). The differences between the two may seem subtle to you, but the two maps really do play differently at higher levels of play.

Whew, I think that's enough. Hope that changes your perspective on a few things.

I think Lies' point is that the general sense of fun has been distorted due to over-competitiveness, and as a result the fun derived from gaming isn't what it could be without these competitive urges.

Collecting every single Pokémon? Okay, I can get behind that. But this EV and IV stuff? Absolute madness. How is crap like that fun?

"Collecting every single Pokémon? Okay, I can get behind that. But this EV and IV stuff? Absolute madness. How is crap like that fun?"

It's the nature of the beast, Lies. Though it can certainly be frustrating playing against these types of people, whose sole objective is to win, no matter what, in any game. As soon as any form of stat-tracking or metagame rewards present themselves, people act like dicks. Hell, I've been guilty of it myself, cheesing Astaroth's low sweep>high overhead attack combo online to get to rank 20 for an achievement in Soul Calibur 4. For those who don't know, this is a really cheap, damaging attack that's pretty hard to avoid.

On the other hand, that's why it's nice that there is a distinction between player matches and ranked matches on XBL. I wouldn't ever resort to that kind of behavior on Player matches. Sadly, play-to-win behavior seems like it's par for the course on ranked matches, so it's either put up or shut up.

There will always be a spectrum of competition in every game. That's the whole point. The games like Halo 3 and Pokemon Platinum are great because there is the potential to be both casual and hardcore, but there will always be people who take things to the extremes. Everyone likes being a winner at something, theres a strange kind of virtual pride in existence. Just because it exists doesn't mean you have to embrace it and take part in it. I am managing to play through Pokemon Platinum in complete ignorance of any competitive outside influences - other than my rivalry with ZeroCast, which is hardly forcing me to draw up a breeding program. I guess I only get really competitive if i'm playing against people I know. Online multiplayer is fun, but its really just a warmup.

I stopped reading around the point where you talked about the spreadsheets and how the enjoyment of the game has been removed. While I don't disagree with what I read before that, I do disagree with that.

I personally use spreadsheets all the time when I play RPGs, for two reasons mainly.

1. I like working with spreadsheets and numbers.
2. I enjoy grinding, and spreadsheets make this task more enjoyable.

1. I enjoy grinding,
   

PureRok... you are fucking crazy. No offense.