Xbox One vs. PlayStation 4 Resolutiongate: Genuine Debate or Disguised Fan War?

You've probably heard by now that there seems to be some controversy surrounding the resolution of some upcoming games on the new consoles. Of course wherever there is discussion of the differences between cross platform games, the fanboys come out strong and it is hard to discuss whether there is actually an issue to talk about or just the usual flaming when it comes to these kind of things. If this is completely news to you then let me give you a quick update on this all and what it could mean if you are still undecided on which new console to pick up in the coming weeks.

The main point of contention seems to be Call of Duty: Ghosts and the resolution it runs at on both Xbox One and PlayStation 4. The game is already out on current gen and Infinity Ward Executive Producer Mark Rubin has confirmed the game runs at native 1080p on PS4, but will be upscaled from 720p to 1080p on Xbox One. But what does this actually mean? Well until we see both versions alongside each other there is no way of telling exactly what it means but ultimately the PS4 ‘should’ look better. How much better is up for debate and may be so unnoticeable unless you really go looking for the differences.

This then leads to people already claiming the PS4 is ‘more powerful’ and ultimately the way to go. But there is more to how powerful a machine is and how well a game runs than just the resolution. Both games will run at 60FPS which is far more important and something which would be noticeable between versions. Also if the Xbox One is able to upscale to 1080p with no noticeable difference this could potentially leave more processing power to make the games look even better than on PS4. Again currently this is all speculation and until the games are out we are just guessing.

The most interesting part of the whole debate is how strongly people feel about this subject and inherently brings out an intriguing side of why ‘fanboys’ exist. I hate that phrase but it is an easy way to describe someone who loves everything one company does and tries at all times to criticize its competitors. Really this isn't an issue of resolution or power as if those things meant a huge amount to you then you would be a PC gamer. It us clear that’s where the best technical capabilities lie when it comes to games resolution so this is more of an issue, once again, of picking sides.

If you are buying a new console this year it is definitely a big investment and most people will feel the need to justify their purchase at any given time. This is why I believe ‘resolution gate’ started, not because the difference actually matters but because it is just another reason for people to justify which side they are on. In the end I believe the outcome will end up exactly like the current consoles. Cross platform games look almost identical with few exceptions and even if one console is more powerful, it is up to the individual developers to make the games look better. Not just a case of it will be better because it exists on a specific console.

If you are still undecided on the new consoles my advice would be like always. These consoles will share a vast majority of the same games and have very similar architecture over the next 5-10 years and all comes to personal preference. In the end I highly doubt anyone will actually base their decision on a brand new consoles on whether a cross platform game is upscaled to 1080p or not.

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Edited by LiquidPrince

It's just an early indicator of how the extra power on PS4 makes it easier to develop for. That isn't to say that future X1 games won't be in 1080P, just that optimization is needed more on the X1 department. In the meantime the PS4 will also be getting optimized, so theoretically we could have much better resolutions and framerates in the second wave of games, it's just that PS4 seems to have a slight lead. Why this matters is because Sony and Microsoft are now in the reverse of the positions they were last time around during the start of the seventh generation. PS4 is the easier one to develop for, while the X1 is more complicated.

Edited by Blu3V3nom07

ResolutionGate doesn't affect my K/D ratio. That's all we buy these games for, don't we? Anywho, I think I'm still buying Ghosts in the very-near future. Whenever my cousin decides to jump on, more because he didn't pre-order. But my purchasing an XONE isn't really based on resolution, but the rest of the features do make some good reasons. Unity on ID@Xbox is gonna help alot it looks like. So, that'll be neat.

Point is, no ResolutionDealio doesn't make a difference with me. I'm still pretty happy right about now. :)

Edited by Darji

There are many reasons for this outrage. First of all A much higher resolution needs a much more powerful machine so it is already a sign of how powerful this machine is. Secondly The obvious more powerful machine costs 100$ less which is another reason why people jump on this. Also it is not only call of duty. There are so far I think only there games that are confirmed to run in 1080P on the XBox One which are Fifa, Forza 5 and NBA2k14. Everything else is 720P. For Ps4 you only have one game which is running not in 1080P and that is Battlefield 4 which again is another sign.

HOWEVER: The real reason why all this outrage happened is because of Microsoft themselves and how they handle this whole matter. They are not only stay silent. Just look how people like Major Nelson and Albert Penello were just straight out lying about this whole matter on Neogaf. They even accused people like famousmortimer of lying. And that is the biggest reason why Neogaf and so almost the whole gaming community is jumping on this matter that hard. If Microsoft were straight with these people and actually told the truth it would have been much more silently.

Also the press is putting even more fire into this by straight out defending Microsoft and saying that there is almost no noticeably difference between 1080P and 720P which is just wrong.

Posted by Morningstar

Please stop calling it resolutiongate....

Edited by joshwent

Also if the Xbox One is able to upscale to 1080p with no noticeable difference this could potentially leave more processing power to make the games look even better than on PS4.

Woooooah, cowboy. I don't think you mean to be saying what you're saying here, 'cause it doesn't really make sense.

If upscaling the XOne version let them improve the visuals to the point where it could look even better than the native 1080 PS4 version, then why wouldn't they upscale that one too? If the graphical improvements were so great from staying at 720, then both versions would have that resolution. Obviously, it's a concession based on lowering the resolution on the XOne to maintain 60fps.

I agree that maybe the difference will be practically unnoticeable, but that's not really the point. What should matter to anyone buying a next gen console is that based on these launch game specs, the cheaper gizmo has at least a bit more processing power.

I'm a PC guy, so I have no side to be on, but saying "Really this isn't an issue of resolution or power..." is discounting any gamer who just wants the best console experience for their money. And right now, the facts are that with the XOne, you're paying more to play a lower res game. Exactly where the PS3 was last generation. Way more expensive, usually worse graphics. Nothing "fan boy" about wanting the best.

Edited by Chaser324

I'd say that it's honestly a bit of both. Sure, it's an indicator that the PS4 probably has a little extra graphical horsepower or at the very least has graphical power that's easier to tap into. That being said, the degree to which some people are calling it a "final nail in the coffin" for the Xbox One is ridiculous.

Being the more powerful and/or the cheaper unit at launch doesn't really guarantee grand success nor does it assure the doom of your competitor. All it means is that you might have a better launch, but this is a marathon and not a sprint. Both consoles have a long road ahead of them, and it's going to be quite a while before we can really start to say what the position of either will really be in the industry.

Moderator
Edited by TyCobb

PS3 seemed to do OK and it was godly expensive when it came out, but had a lot of shitty looking games that weren't exclusive. This generation is just the opposite of last and each will do just fine.

People are taking this stuff way too seriously and I don't understand it. Why does it matter? God I hate when new consoles come out. Nothing but back and forth bullshit.

EDIT: Just read what I wrote and yea, I just started rambling. I blame this hard beverage.

Edited by Captain_Felafel

I think both sides of this thing have fair points, but are leaning too hard on their side of the argument which just ends up drowning out the valid points that are being brought up. Those who are blowing up and acting like this is going to define this generation, as if the PS4's greater wealth of horsepower ensures its victory—if such a thing is even attainable in the console business—are being shortsighted and are forgetting about the last two generations of consoles where the platform with less power was the more successful system. Those on the other side of the debate who are saying this means nothing and we won't know the true performance of each system until a few years down the road are equally misguided I think, because the evidence for which system is more powerful is clearly there, and the fact that there is a performance gap this substantial does matter. And then of course there's the part where the system with a significant performance advantage is $100 less than its competition; that's just impossibly backwards.

I err on the side of cautioned concern regarding the state of cross platform games on the Xbox One. If CoD: Ghosts, a game which in no way looks next-gen, can't even attain a 1080p at 60 on XBO, what does that say for, say, the cross-platform games of 2015 or 2016? If the choice for developers becomes halve the framerate or halve the resolution on XBO, then we're in trouble.

Is the XBO capable of games that run at 1080p/60? Yes. Forza 5, for example. So maybe this is only an issue for 3rd party titles. But if so, that's a hard sell for anyone looking to make that system their main console when they'll be getting inferior versions of those games. And that's just CoD: Ghosts we're talking about. Battlefield 4 doesn't even run at a steady 60FPS at 720p on XBO according to Digital Foundry, and that version of the game looks significantly worse compared to what's running on my 3-year old gaming PC. Even the PS4 can't attain a steady 60 at 1080p. Maybe this all comes down to optimization, and I hope that's the case—these games are coming in super, super hot—but it doesn't bode well for this next generation. If we've got 5-8 more years of console games not looking as good as what's on PC, then this is going to be a long, long generation.

Edited by TruthTellah

It's a mix. There are genuine differences that people will notice and discuss, and then there's fans fighting over stupid things. It's very rare for topics like this to be only genuine or only fanboyism.

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Posted by omencat

Not sure what the reason is for this. Last time I read the hardware specs, they both looked to use similar components. But the ps4 had higher bus or memory throughput.

In any case this doesnt change my feelings about xbox vs ps. I've always been in the xbox camp. The crazy Japanese games don't appeal to me.

Posted by MariachiMacabre

It's a mix. There are genuine differences that people will notice and discuss, and then there's fans fighting over stupid things. It's very rare for topics like this to be only genuine or only fanboyism.

TruthTellah. TELLAH-IN THE TRUTH. There's genuine descussion to be had on the topic but it's drowned out by insufferable fanboys and children. And this debate will have more grounds for discussion when we're a bit further down the line, looking at games developed solely for the new systems/PC.

Posted by Sammo21

I expect the best resolution possible and 720p is not that

Posted by audioBusting

I feel like there's nothing disguised about the fan war in this particular issue. I haven't seen any legitimate discussion that has come from it. It's kind of stupid to debate numbers based on rumors and guesses. It might be a genuinely interesting topic to discuss but nothing is even concrete yet. When all consoles and games are out and people like the Digital Foundry do their analyses on them, then there can be a worthwhile discussion.

The discussion on the hardware specs themselves can be genuine, but it only goes so far. This resolution thing is plain silly. They might as well crank the PS4 resolution to 4K and have it run like crap just to prove a point to the console warmongers.

Posted by crithon

I had a cousin who refused to play Uncharted 2 because it was at 720p on his nice 50 inch plasma 1080p hdtv. People like to get their money's worth on what they buy.

Now to be honest, some video games are going to be HORRIBLE to tell what's what. Really Menu, interfaces and Text will probably be the best guess to what is higher resolution. Although one of the best examples of people slowly realizing resolutions was Halo 3 running at 1138 x 640 and then Halo Reach came in at 1152 x 720 and of course people noticed it immediately.

I still feel there's an under represented audience here who are concerned about their money's worth. And really is reacting to the reaction.

Edited by SomeJerk

It should not be a debate or a war. It should be those who have decided on PS4s patting those who have decided on XboxOnes, on their backs, saying "I'm sure they'll figure it out", because the 32 megs of esRAM is an undefeatable bottleneck, unlike figuring out the CELL and RSX of the PS3. Yhat part of the console hardware sucks.

(..if 1080p and 1080p60 is the critical thing needed in absolutely every single game not a low-draw cost sports game or something, that is. Also keep in mind these are all launch titles (COD GHOSTS PS4 problems) and good Xbone news kinda dont get anywhere (sports rivals now runs 1080p30))

Edited by golguin

I think it matters more than people seem to think. There was a time when the first drama over the Xbox One broke and media people hand waved the whole thing as internet forum drama that would blow over.

This is just another point that people can add to the PS4 when they talk to their friends about the next console they should buy. I think it would be a little naive to think this kind of thing doesn't matter. I know media people are more or less done with Call of Duty, but there are millions of people that will latch on to this news and they don't want to hear that they're going to play an "inferior version".

Edited by Seppli

@_mattallica:

I never understood that argument, that if people really cared about resolution and framerate, cared about power and performance, they wouldn't be playing on consoles, but on PC. Why would I not care about how my games look and run on my console?

Pretty much every early PS3 game looked and ran worse, and even now it's quite common, that the weaker version is the PS3 version because developers are hamstrung by its architecture. I switched mid-generation to playing most games on PS3, because once I had one, and played online for free, I was unwilling to cough up dough to get over Microsoft's Xbox Live paywall. I had lots of fun with the games I played on PS3, but I still cared that often I had to play the weakest version of a game.

I'm getting two multiplatform games at launch. BF4 and NfS Rivals. We already know BF4 runs smoother at a higher resolution with more post processing effects on PS4 than Xbox One. A NfS Rivals developer did let it slip, that one of the two next gen versions will be looking slightly better (guess what, it'll be the PS4 version). I care about that. And between a 500-1500$ upgrade to my gaming PC, and putting down 399$ for a PS4, there's really no competition where I get the most for my money this year.

In the end, PS4 is less expensive, and on paper more performant. The reality of multiplatform launch games cofirms that. A significant power advantage for PS4. I'd say these resolution disparities are indicative of PS4 being roughly 20-30% more performant out of the gate. A matter of importance.

Posted by Berserker976

I honestly don't think this would have become such a big deal if:

1. The gaming press treated this like they did at the beginning of the current generation, (acknowledging the differences and informing people of them and explaining what they imply) instead of seemingly downplaying the difference and calling people that care about it crazy, pixel-counting, nerdy, basement-dwelling fanboys (paraphrasing).

and

2. If Microsoft, and MS fans, would stop trying to convince people that they might have the more powerful console. People get frustrated when there are really obvious truthes out there that other people keep trying to argue against. The PS4 is quantifiably more powerful, this shouldn't be something people are still debating.

Now here's the thing, the Xbox One being less powerful doesn't make it a WORSE CONSOLE. This is where the whole "games" thing comes into play. If it has the games you want to play, you like the experience the console provides, you don't mind paying an extra $100, and you're willing to look passed the inferior multiplatform games, then by all means, get an Xbone.

People shouldn't be judged for prefering one console over another, but this power debate should be over. The fact that it isn't being outwardly acknowledged by the gaming press at large I think is the real reason tensions have gotten high.

Posted by Darji

I feel like there's nothing disguised about the fan war in this particular issue. I haven't seen any legitimate discussion that has come from it. It's kind of stupid to debate numbers based on rumors and guesses. It might be a genuinely interesting topic to discuss but nothing is even concrete yet. When all consoles and games are out and people like the Digital Foundry do their analyses on them, then there can be a worthwhile discussion.

The discussion on the hardware specs themselves can be genuine, but it only goes so far. This resolution thing is plain silly. They might as well crank the PS4 resolution to 4K and have it run like crap just to prove a point to the console warmongers.

There is a ton of concrete info about specs, problems and so on out there. And these specs are being used to mock Microsoft because they are till trying to deny all this stuff. It is all MS fault that this whole situation escalated like it is now.

Posted by Carryboy

Im personally getting both at launch, but If I was to go for one over the other I would go for the PS4, not because of this nonsence but the (in my opinion) better 1st party support the PS3 had especially in the later years.

Posted by ll_Exile_ll

@crithon said:

I had a cousin who refused to play Uncharted 2 because it was at 720p on his nice 50 inch plasma 1080p hdtv. People like to get their money's worth on what they buy.

Now to be honest, some video games are going to be HORRIBLE to tell what's what. Really Menu, interfaces and Text will probably be the best guess to what is higher resolution. Although one of the best examples of people slowly realizing resolutions was Halo 3 running at 1138 x 640 and then Halo Reach came in at 1152 x 720 and of course people noticed it immediately.

I still feel there's an under represented audience here who are concerned about their money's worth. And really is reacting to the reaction.

So, what games exactly did your cousin play? Because there were only a handful of console games that actually ran in 1080p. Was he one of those people that thought because every 360 game said 1080p on the back of the box that every game was actually 1080p?

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Posted by Darji

@crithon said:

I had a cousin who refused to play Uncharted 2 because it was at 720p on his nice 50 inch plasma 1080p hdtv. People like to get their money's worth on what they buy.

Now to be honest, some video games are going to be HORRIBLE to tell what's what. Really Menu, interfaces and Text will probably be the best guess to what is higher resolution. Although one of the best examples of people slowly realizing resolutions was Halo 3 running at 1138 x 640 and then Halo Reach came in at 1152 x 720 and of course people noticed it immediately.

I still feel there's an under represented audience here who are concerned about their money's worth. And really is reacting to the reaction.

So, what games exactly did your cousin play? Because there were only a handful of console games that actually ran in 1080p. Was he one of those people that thought because every 360 game said 1080p on the back of the box that every game was actually 1080p?

In total and not counting indy games there were I think 0 360 in 1080P native and like 3 or 4 on PS3 which were only launch titles.

Edited by SomeJerk

If we get reviews caring not at all about visually inferior Xbone titles like BF4 VS PS4 BF4, then there will be time for a genuine debate, pointing fingers towards past reviews and how they dumped on PS3 version resolutions being even just a tad smaller.

Edited by Darji

@somejerk said:

If we get reviews caring not at all about visually inferior Xbone titles like BF4 VS PS4 BF4, then there will be time for a genuine debate, pointing fingers towards past reviews and how they dumped on PS3 version resolutions being even just a tad smaller.

They are already doing this. Telling you how resolution does not matter and that you do not see a big difference.

Posted by ll_Exile_ll

@darji said:

@ll_exile_ll said:

@crithon said:

I had a cousin who refused to play Uncharted 2 because it was at 720p on his nice 50 inch plasma 1080p hdtv. People like to get their money's worth on what they buy.

Now to be honest, some video games are going to be HORRIBLE to tell what's what. Really Menu, interfaces and Text will probably be the best guess to what is higher resolution. Although one of the best examples of people slowly realizing resolutions was Halo 3 running at 1138 x 640 and then Halo Reach came in at 1152 x 720 and of course people noticed it immediately.

I still feel there's an under represented audience here who are concerned about their money's worth. And really is reacting to the reaction.

So, what games exactly did your cousin play? Because there were only a handful of console games that actually ran in 1080p. Was he one of those people that thought because every 360 game said 1080p on the back of the box that every game was actually 1080p?

In total and not counting indy games there were I think 0 360 in 1080P native and like 3 or 4 on PS3 which were only launch titles.

I know, hence the question, what games would someone that refused to play in 720p actually play? I bet he loved Wipeout HD.

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Posted by AgnosticJesus

Whole thing has been totally blown out of proportion. Funny thing is the PS4 version of COD in all it's native 1080p glory is having a hard time keeping a consistent framerate.

Posted by jayjonesjunior

Microsoft is taking the bullet but both consoles are under-powered (Xbox One just happens to be ridiculously under-powered) and i bet their will be plenty of PS4 games running at "sub-fullhd/720p" resolutions.

The problem with the "It is just the internet being the internet" approach the journalists love use in order to cover their asses is that people with legitimate concerns are being ignored and labeled as fanboys/haters.

If people took us a little more seriously maybe we could have the power to ask for powerful boxes, but it is too late now, we can talk again in 2018 when consoles will still be running games at 720p while PCs will be doing 8K or something.

Posted by GiantLizardKing

Finding any reason to defend 720p in 2013 does come off to me as fanboyism. If the next gen consoles are having a hard time hitting 1080p, I have a hard time seeing them ever being able to push anything close to 4k resolutions. Assuming we are looking at another 8 year cycle, and 4k becomes affordable in the next couple of years, we will be looking at a 6 year gap where our consoles can't push to our displays native resolution.

That could leave a real opportunity for Steam Machines to have a market impact, and for Nintendo to release a true next gen machine as well.

Posted by Colourful_Hippie

tl;dr

I have a hard time taking anyone seriously who uses the word "resolutiongate" like it means something.

Posted by Darji

Whole thing has been totally blown out of proportion. Funny thing is the PS4 version of COD in all it's native 1080p glory is having a hard time keeping a consistent framerate.

just like the pc version according to neogaf

Edited by MildMolasses

tl;dr

I have a hard time taking anyone seriously who uses the word "resolutiongate" like it means something.

Unfortunately that word has been used by actual sites because nobody knows how to discuss potentially controversial issues with out adding 'gate' to the end of a word. If only that hotel had been a HoJo's. I could totally get on board with "Resolutionjohnson"

Posted by GW305

While I am getting the PS4 at launch over the Xbone I can't help but notice that the Xbone has the best looking launch game. In my honest opinion, Ryse looks graphically superior to Killzone Shadow Fall. Amazing how Crytek still makes the best looking game even with the weaker console.

Edited by datarez

Personally I feel it doesn't matter now, but in 6 months after we can see some trends. But what I do find interesting is the NDAs that are putting the devs in a corner. See: http://metro.co.uk/2013/11/05/call-of-duty-ghosts-mark-rubin-interview-there-are-things-that-were-not-allowed-to-talk-about-4173810/

GC: So the obvious assumption from all this is that the PlayStation 4 is definitely more powerful than the Xbox One, is that true?

MR: [acting very embarrassed] I can’t answer that.

GC: You can’t answer it on a technical level or because you’re being diplomatic?

MR: Can’t answer that.

GC: You can’t say whether you’re avoiding the question for diplomatic reasons?

MR: [embarrassed] I just can’t say anything…

[Even the attending PR guy is looking embarrassed by this point]

PR guy: It’s very hard for us to be…

GC: Are the console manufacturers leaning on you to avoid these sort of questions?

MR: [unsure - speaking to PR guy] I don’t know if that…

MR: [even more embarrassed to us] Yeah, there’s things that we… We sign NDAs with the first parties [i.e. Microsoft and Sony - GC] and there are things that we’re not allowed to talk about.

Posted by joshwent

I have a hard time taking anyone seriously who uses the word "resolutiongate" like it means something.

let me impart some of my expert computer expertise, then. You see, when the game disk is inserted into your game machine, all the little ones and zeroes jump off and line up to make the game go. But before they can hold hands and walk onto your TV, there is a teeny tiny gate that they all have to walk through. Microsoft is evil, so inside their box, there is a teeny weenie demon next to the gate who'll only let seven hundred and twenty ones and zeroes through at a time. This is what we experts refer to as the "resolutiongate".

Posted by Whamola

@gw305: ...What? Ryse looks like hot garbage. The graphics are pretty standard, but dear god the game-play looks atrocious. It looks like it's going to join the leagues of thankfully forgotten launch games like Perfect Dark: Zero and Orphen: Scion of Sorcery.

As for this whole thing, it kind of seems one sided. You have Xbone fans and PR people going, "Well, technically lower resolutions are better because less is more", and then there's a bunch of people who want Microsoft to just own up to their constant fumbling. If Microsoft just said, "Yeah, the Xbone's not as easy to develop for as we'd hope, but we're going to work with everyone as much as we can" there wouldn't be a problem. Instead you've got the standard "we've always been at war with Eastasia" lines they've been rambling off since day one. I honestly haven't seen many Sony fans dog-piling on because at this point, every time something like this, they laugh and move on.

In a year, none of this will matter. Right now, when people ask me what console is the best, I say, "Well, technically PS4 is the clear choice at the moment, but you should really just wait." Yeah, PS4 seems quite a bit more powerful and easier to develop for, and that'll most likely always be the case, but I'm sure Microsoft will sell an ass load of Xbones no matter what. Some people care about Sony, some people care about Microsoft, and some people care about resolution.

Ghosts doesn't seem to indicate that the Xbone has a great future, but Ghosts also seems like it's a rushed, generic, milquetoast shooter.

Posted by Peanut

All this entire thing has done is cement my distaste for the games community at large. It makes me feel so ashamed that video games are my hobby.

Posted by Mycroft_Ampersand

@whamola said:

@gw305: ...What? Ryse looks like hot garbage. The graphics are pretty standard, but dear god the game-play looks atrocious. It looks like it's going to join the leagues of thankfully forgotten launch games like Perfect Dark: Zero and Orphen: Scion of Sorcery.

As for this whole thing, it kind of seems one sided. You have Xbone fans and PR people going, "Well, technically lower resolutions are better because less is more", and then there's a bunch of people who want Microsoft to just own up to their constant fumbling. If Microsoft just said, "Yeah, the Xbone's not as easy to develop for as we'd hope, but we're going to work with everyone as much as we can" there wouldn't be a problem. Instead you've got the standard "we've always been at war with Eastasia" lines they've been rambling off since day one. I honestly haven't seen many Sony fans dog-piling on because at this point, every time something like this, they laugh and move on.

In a year, none of this will matter. Right now, when people ask me what console is the best, I say, "Well, technically PS4 is the clear choice at the moment, but you should really just wait." Yeah, PS4 seems quite a bit more powerful and easier to develop for, and that'll most likely always be the case, but I'm sure Microsoft will sell an ass load of Xbones no matter what. Some people care about Sony, some people care about Microsoft, and some people care about resolution.

Ghosts doesn't seem to indicate that the Xbone has a great future, but Ghosts also seems like it's a rushed, generic, milquetoast shooter.

Pretty much agree with everything you are saying here whamola. Additionally, I would say that anyone who wants to argue about this issue should go back and think about the start of the PS3-360 era and how much the differences that were screamed about then actually made as the generation continued, at least as far as one system dominating the industry versus the other.

Edited by senrat

I think when a console doesn't improve dramatically from the previous generation, something is wrong. I understand that we are reaching a point of diminishing returns, but the 360 came out in 2005. Looking at the specs of the Xbone, I thought it would be able to run 1080p games with no problem. Also, I highly doubt the Xbox One is difficult to develop for. The 360 was known for being very easy to develop for and the Xbox one is supposed to be very similar. Forza 5 is the the Xbox One's biggest showpiece, it runs at 1080p with a locked 60 fps and looks beautiful doing it. Considering Turn 10 helped architect the box, it should look good. I still don't think the PS4 has a true showpiece yet, shadow fall looks great, but doesn't blow me away because of the familiar gameplay. It does seem that as people start to spend their money, their true colors are revealed, and they take a side.

Edited by shinjin977

@agnosticjesus said:

Whole thing has been totally blown out of proportion. Funny thing is the PS4 version of COD in all it's native 1080p glory is having a hard time keeping a consistent framerate.

I see people posting this a bit. I tried this game today on PC. I have an I7 cpu and Titan GPU. I can not run this game at 1080p resolution at 60fps. NO CONSOLE CAN! It is super unoptimized. The X1, pc or ps4 can NOT run this game at 60 fps. In comparison, I can run Crysis and Tomb Raider at 60 fps (except the beginning of crysis, fuck that rain effect) and this game look like crap compare to those.

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Posted by Deranged

@senrat said:

I think when a console doesn't improve dramatically from the previous generation, something is wrong. I understand that we are reaching a point of diminishing returns, but the 360 came out in 2005. Looking at the specs of the Xbone, I thought it would be able to run 1080p games with no problem.

Ain't this the goddamn truth.

Posted by Whamola

@senrat: Well, the Xbone IS much better than the 360 technically, we just haven't seen anything that proves that. At the same time, considering Youtube only plays at 30fps as well as a bunch of other websites, it's really hard to get a feel for how things are going to look and play until they're on your TV at home.

As for people expecting the Xbone to be able to do 1080p60fps, I think that's the reason behind a lot of people freaking out about this. The improvements this generation aren't as noticeable as Xbox/360 and PS2/PS3 immediately, so it's disappointing to hear that almost nothing is going to be 1080/60 out of the gate for the Xbone.

I have to disagree with you on Forza 5 though. The more I see and hear about it, the worse it looks. Yeah, it runs at 1080p60, but a lot of the lighting and shadows look terrible, and from what I hear they've only got about half the cars and tracks from Forza 4, which just feels like a huge let down. I'm starting to believe the rumors that Microsoft originally planned to release well into next year because a lot of their games just seem really rushed and lacking.

Edited by jgf

To me the main problem is that the argument is not as separated as it should be. The PS4 is the more powerful machine. That was obvious from the leaked specs months ago and now it shows in the multiplatform titles. However that does not mean that it's the better console per se. This depends on the games, the ecosystem, your friends and so forth. That's where things get mixed up. You're not a dumb person by any means if you choose to buy x1 and not care too much about the performance gap. The X1 is still a quite powerful upgrade compared to current gen and 750p vs 900/1080p is not such a big deal after all. But the performance gap exists. That's a fact and no amount of discussion can change this.

Edited by TheMasterDS

Go look at Perfect Dark 0 and tell me that how launch games look are indicative of how games will look over the lifetime of the system. If you believed that you'd now be saying "The PS4 will have higher resolutions but sloppier framerates! And I know this because Ghosts!" Sounds silly when you put it like that actually.

A similar argument can be made to counter the statement "nothing has changed between this generation and the next therefore there's no point in buying one ever." Look at Perfect Dark 0 and tell me game design didn't evolve in massive strides away from there. Perfect Dark 0 is basically the perfect Launch Game to trot out to demonstrate the folly of trying to predict the future using a launch game.

Edited by jsnyder82

@agnosticjesus said:

Whole thing has been totally blown out of proportion. Funny thing is the PS4 version of COD in all it's native 1080p glory is having a hard time keeping a consistent framerate.

I see people posting this a bit. I tried this game today on PC. I have an I7 cpu and Titan GPU. I can not run this game at 1080p resolution at 60fps. NO CONSOLE CAN! It is super unoptimized. The X1, pc or ps4 can NOT run this game at 60 fps. In comparison, I can run Crysis and Tomb Raider at 60 fps (except the beginning of crysis, fuck that rain effect) and this game look like crap compare to those.

Yeah, I always find it odd that Crytek chose the very beginning of the game to use that rain effect, when it's even been shown to bog down a GTX Titan.

Edited by _Mattallica
Posted by earlygrab666

I think the Xbox OS is killing it's chances. Xbox is wasting processing power to run background aps that imo do little more than supply more ad space.

Also. It's hypocritical to hear everyone that sides with xbox say resolution doesn't matter to them, yet last gen they called out the wii at every chance. Now they have 2 xbox's duct taped together with REQUIRED waggle and an OS that looks like a 1995 pop-up-spam filter crapped itself.

Posted by tourgen

I don't really care what other people decide to buy, but we need to at least get the facts straight. People should be making informed decisions. I keep hearing things like "the PS4 is a little bit more powerful". That's misleading.

The PS4 has about 150% of the graphics processing power of the Xbox. That's just # of shader cores and raw clock cycles. No band-aid cache is going to address that. And it's easier to code for, so optimizations will come easier/quicker.

If you're OK with that, fine. Plenty of people enjoyed the Wii because of the games it had. I imagine the Xbox will get some pretty good exclusives as well: Titanfall, Dead Rising, etc. But don't go into your buying decision thinking that some magic faerie dust is going to get sprinkled over the XBox in a firmware update or in the "second wave" of release games and bring it up into the weight class of the PS4. The raw power just isn't there.

Edited by PeezMachine

There will definitely be a segment of the population who will buy based on power (or purported power) - typically the younger crowd or folks without enough experience with consoles to know what else to look for. However, the PS3 and X360 marked the first generation of consoles with fully-fledged "services" (PSN and a proper Live), and as distribution, DRM, and user experience become more dependent on these services, I think they will outweigh spec sheets more and more. Can I easily get games? Can I play them? Do I own them in some sense? Is updating games easy? Do my hoops have to jump through hoops to do something as simple as maintaining a friends list (looking at you, Wii)?

Resolutiongate is a non-factor. It might influence which version of a game reviewers use as their go-to (especially since publishers are likely to send out the best-looking version for review), but I still think exclusive titles are what will tip people on the fence. The "wait and see crowd?" They aren't waiting to see who gets more frames at 1080p, they're waiting to see who can provide games worthy of their paycheck. They're probably also waiting to see what their friends are playing.

Posted by Darji

There will definitely be a segment of the population who will buy based on power (or purported power) - typically the younger crowd or folks without enough experience with consoles to know what else to look for. However, the PS3 and X360 marked the first generation of consoles with fully-fledged "services" (PSN and a proper Live), and as distribution, DRM, and user experience become more dependent on these services, I think they will outweigh spec sheets more and more. Can I easily get games? Can I play them? Do I own them in some sense? Is updating games easy? Do my hoops have to jump through hoops to do something as simple as maintaining a friends list (looking at you, Wii)?

Resolutiongate is a non-factor. It might influence which version of a game reviewers use as their go-to (especially since publishers are likely to send out the best-looking version for review), but I still think exclusive titles are what will tip people on the fence. The "wait and see crowd?" They aren't waiting to see who gets more frames at 1080p, they're waiting to see who can provide games worthy of their paycheck. They're probably also waiting to see what their friends are playing.

I give you the resolution gate statement especially since 1080P will also be put on every XBox one game but the argumentation that normal people care more about services is bullshit. Uninformed customer which are the most casual ones are only looking at these numbers even they do not understand what it even means.

Posted by TriBeard

I switched during the middle of the last generation to basically a PC only gamer (I had a 360, and since sold it and got a PS3 solely for blu-ray, netflix, and the like). I think a lot of the frustration and angst that is coming from all of this is from people like me, and people who are friends of people like me who know what PC gaming can be like, and who have been enjoying 1080p at 30 or 60 fps for a while now. We were all hoping to be wowed with graphics on these new machines, and instead what were getting is just parity with the PC versions at best, and looking worse than the PC versions sometimes too.

This isn't to say this won't change, as I'm sure optimizations and such will occur as developers get familiar with the hardware. However, PC hardware will continue its climb in power too, and will more than likely be able to brute-force it's graphics to similar, if not better, quality levels. This is disappointing for a lot of people, and so the fact that the Xbox 1 isn't even at 1080p out of the gate is just downright devastating. Why would you go back to 720p when you have 1080p as a standard already on PC, and now, at least in the beginning, PS4. Sure, there will be exclusives to both consoles (and probably PC too, but those are almost always fewer and further between), but right now those aren't looking particularly promising as far as stuff to play day 1.

Time will tell, but I just think people are so much less psyched about these consoles because they really don't look any better than the same old stuff we've been seeing for a while now. I was looking forward to the old boxes going away, and gaming as a whole being able to take a leap forward in quality of games, both in terms of graphics and other compute heavy things like AI, but that looks like it's still a ways off, if it's even going to happen. And that makes me sad.

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