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AhmadMetallic

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Battlefield 3 is shaping up to be a total joke

This is a rant blog, i guess....
*PS this is for people who have played Battlefield 2. If you haven't, I don't think you will relate
*PPS the fact that the game is in alpha stage doesn't mean it's gonna be 110% different when it's out. Alpha is the second step towards the golden stage, and this second step is messed up
*PPPS i'm not asking for realism or hardcore mode. those aren't the only solutions

Introducion: That player shot at a far away triangle, the result was that he killed another player. Does that sound right to you? think about that for 5 seconds, then proceed.

Now look at this new Battlefield 3 trailer:

----------------

So for those who were duped by DICE's promising interviews, telling us that Battlefield 3 is an actual sequel to Battlefield 2, using things like "Jets, big maps and prone!!1!!111!" to fool us, this blog is to inform you that you were in fact duped.

Battlefield 3
Battlefield 3

This is a very normal business step by EA, i'm not saying it's bizarre, i'm just very saddened by the fact that it eventually happened: They found that their PC-based content-rich skill-demanding not-so-rewarding games Battlefield 2 and Battlefield 2142 didn't sell well, whereas their console spin-off Bad Company 2 made serious bank, so instead of milking the Bad Company series with BC3 in two years time, they were too eager and corrupted Battlefield 3 in order to cash in on people's hopes by the end of this year.

This game has nothing in common with Battlefield 2. only the fact that the conquest maps support 64 players.. that's it.

  • Just like BC2 and unlike BF2, there is no Commo Rose. You can't use pre-recorded commands to communicate with your team mates efficiently. We're going to be mute just like in BC2

2000+ post on the official forums protesting lack of Commo Rose

If you've never used this thing before, you really missed out.
If you've never used this thing before, you really missed out.

Here's a mock-up by a fan. tell me you dont love it:

No Caption Provided

[Full size]

  • Like BC2 and unlike BF2, the ridiculously outrageous 3D spotting is back. You point at the enemy's base, tap the social button, see triangles light up, shoot at the triangles and get kills. You don't have to see the person to kill them. That is called "aim assist". the fact that you can see the triangle through walls and rocks and trees, is called "wallhacking". DICE solved the problem of cheats and hackers: they implemented that shit into their game.

3 hot threads protesting 3D Spotting: First, Second, Third.

Everyone shoot at the triangle, that makes you kill other people.
Everyone shoot at the triangle, that makes you kill other people.
  • Not only that, but squad leaders get a huge star stuffed NEXT to the spotting triangle on top of their heads, making people think twice before they start a squad.
  • The damage models are ridiculous. 3 taps and you're dead. If you have a triangle on your head, you're automatically doomed.
  • Like BC2 and unlike BF2, teamwork stats are no-where to be seen. The scoreboard shows this: K, D, Score. the end-of-round stats consist of four screens listing your best kills and killstreaks.. yes, i said killstreaks in a Battlefield game
  • There doesn't seem to be any chain of command whatsoever. The squad leader position appears to do literally nothing. there is no commo rose to communicate, no giving orders, nothing.
  • Like BC2 and unlike BF2, health regeneration is back. it takes 15 seconds to kick in, but once it does it goes all the way up rapidly. Once again, medics are only needed when someone dies
  • A new awesome feature: Vehicle health regeneration. 'nuff said.
  • Like BC2 and unlike BF2, there's still an aimbot knife in the game. All you have to do is tap the knife button when you're behind someone, and you're 100% guaranteed to hit them
  • The biggest emphasis of the Lead Designer of the game's multiplayer component, is the gunz.

There's already speculations that the conquest maps are gonna be linear and chokepoint-based (no matter how big they are), and that jets and helos will have health regeneration as well.

And so, it is clear that the huge bank that Bad Company 2 made, is totally blinding DICE from having any sense of principle and they're pretty much creating Bad Company 2 under a bigger better name.

They found that when they created games that had honest clean gameplay that encouraged teamwork, they didn't make enough money. Whereas when they created a game with triangles that are visible through walls and tell you where to shoot, they made money.

Yes i'll be buying the game, and yes i'm very excited for it, but the message i'm trying to convey here is that this game is not Battlefield 3.

If you think this is a typical "Bf3 is Bc3 !!" thread, give me a counter argument.

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AhmadMetallic

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Edited By AhmadMetallic
@Akrid said: 
After much consternation I think I understand what you're saying. I have concluded that you should go play ArmA 2 if you want a thinking man's shooter, because that's not something the BF series - due to popular demand - offers anymore. 
Thanks for the suggestion, but i never said i wanted realism. Realism isn't fun dude.. I wanna see flying cars and ragdoll animations,  i wanna fly jets through tunnels and all that stuff. What im asking for here isn't realism, it's reasonable standards that every Battlefield player has come to expect  
 
 
@Seppli
said:
BF3 is gonna be for me. 
I have no doubt about that, dude :) I've seen your passionate posts about BC2, you never mentioned the objectives or your team once. All you seem to notice and care about is how you kill and how much you kill, so i'm sure you'll be enjoying BF3's multiple killstreak and shot tracking stats. 
 
I mean, like you said : 
A longtime vet since the original BF 1942 and Battlefield having lost me with BF2 to the likes of MMORPGs and the Bad Company games being responsible to getting me back in the fold
You enjoyed the first game that had no chain of command and had team deathmatch, you were put off by the game that prioritized conquest mode and empowered the chain of command and teamwork and strategically-pressing structure, and you jumped back into the game with cone spotting and auto aim knife.. You're anti-teamwork and pro-killfest.  
Enjoy BF3, it's made for you.
 

@Enigma777 said:

Lol

I know right?
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Spoonman671

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Edited By Spoonman671
@Seppli said:
Also - loads of the pessimists are just asshats into BF for the 'realistic' mods like Project Reality. They aren't actual BF players. Just mil-sim dudes. Who gives a fuck about the mil-sim crowd? Lost love really.  As a game, I say Battlefield was never more fun than BF:BC 1 and never better executed technically than BF:BC 2. Bringing both together with BF2's scale and BF2142 structure will be utter and total domination and win.
To be fair, the biggest reason why the first Bad Company was so fun was because the music was awesome!  Also, golf carts.
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EuanDewar

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Edited By EuanDewar

@Spoonman671 said:

@Seppli said:
Also - loads of the pessimists are just asshats into BF for the 'realistic' mods like Project Reality. They aren't actual BF players. Just mil-sim dudes. Who gives a fuck about the mil-sim crowd? Lost love really. As a game, I say Battlefield was never more fun than BF:BC 1 and never better executed technically than BF:BC 2. Bringing both together with BF2's scale and BF2142 structure will be utter and total domination and win.
To be fair, the biggest reason why the first Bad Company was so fun was because the music was awesome! Also, golf carts.

Yeah fuck all this commo rose bullshit. No one gives a shit about that, where's my golf carts?

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Enigma777

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Edited By Enigma777

@Ahmad_Metallic: I don't wanna say that I told you so, but.... I told you so.

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emergency

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Edited By emergency

This thread is so filled with hate it pretty much disgusts me. Also I'd like to point out that you are probably the worst and most stubborn person to argue with. You lack any compassion for people with a different waypoint, come accross as rude and unlikable. You seem to have some sort of hatred for people that actually liked BC2, as if you are superior because you liked BF2 or you played BF2 since you where 2 foot tall. Honestly, giantbomb is generally a light hearted forum full of intellectual discussion. This thread is neither, it's drivel and repetition. People come, disagree with you and you argue back at them. Then the cycle continues, until you've succesfully put the same across to multiple people. Then it all ends with you basically flaming/mocking them. Oh Humanity.

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Seppli

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Edited By Seppli
@Ahmad_Metallic said:
@Seppli said:
BF3 is gonna be for me. 
I have no doubt about that, dude :) I've seen your passionate posts about BC2, you never mentioned the objectives or your team once. All you seem to notice and care about is how you kill and how much you kill, so i'm sure you'll be enjoying BF3's multiple killstreak and shot tracking stats. 
 
I mean, like you said : 
A longtime vet since the original BF 1942 and Battlefield having lost me with BF2 to the likes of MMORPGs and the Bad Company games being responsible to getting me back in the fold
Actually. I mentioned many times I enjoy being a key player. I am Ace a lot and often my presence is the only reason for my team to win. I am key. That's what I shoot for.
 
As far as I can tell, you can't shoot past your prejudice.
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Seppli

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Edited By Seppli
@Spoonman671 said:

@Seppli said:

Also - loads of the pessimists are just asshats into BF for the 'realistic' mods like Project Reality. They aren't actual BF players. Just mil-sim dudes. Who gives a fuck about the mil-sim crowd? Lost love really.  As a game, I say Battlefield was never more fun than BF:BC 1 and never better executed technically than BF:BC 2. Bringing both together with BF2's scale and BF2142 structure will be utter and total domination and win.

To be fair, the biggest reason why the first Bad Company was so fun was because the music was awesome!  Also, golf carts.
Anybody getting a warm tingly feeling at that harmonica jingle playing when earning a pin? Giving me a woody just thinking about it. Oh - and the menu music is legendary! So cool and laid back.
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AhmadMetallic

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Edited By AhmadMetallic
@emergency said:

You lack any compassion for people with a different waypoint, come accross as rude and unlikable. 

Hmm.. you really think so? I'm sorry if i come off as a little rude, but i like cutting to the chase and actually getting somewhere after an argument/discussion. I see people argue, they never go anywhere. they never reach any agreement or even an agreement to disagree, its always a competitive debate where one must take the other down until they get tired and stop, or fight
If being so straightforward and demanding an actual outcome from the conversation makes me sound rude, fuck it, its better than being what you call polite and getting nowhere after two hours of talking. 
 
 
@Seppli: That was a pretty neat little instrumental piece actually.. I wish i'd tried BC1, it sounds like an actual good game. How was the teamplay emphasis in that ?
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PeasantAbuse

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Edited By PeasantAbuse

After 1942 (one of my favorite games of all time) I didn't play a BF game until BC2 which I didn't really enjoy too much.  Hope this game won't turn out like that, but sadly it looks like it might.

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salad10203

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Edited By salad10203

Then don't play it, /thread. 
 
Edit: also, Hardcore mode removes spotting /problem solved

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UnrealDP

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@Ahmad_Metallic:

Bad Company 2 was a really good game, so i really don't mind them improving upon established concepts and making a good sequel to that game. So what if its not 100% pure Battlefield, BC2 had some really good mechanics and gameplay, so did BF2, so they shouldn't take the best of both and make a good sequel, is what you're trying to say?

Just a side note, spotting is a cool concept with the idea of "Oh man that guy spotted me instead of shooting me so now i've got their entire team on me!". Spotting is like a second chance where the guy shooting at us decided not to shoot me but shoot another guy, so he spots me and kills him. Sure once you're spotted you're basically dead, but you could have been shot before hand, so technically it's just a fair second chance mechanic.

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will313

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Edited By will313

I can't agree that the spotting should be taken away, most of the people who I've personally witnessed getting killed by spotting on the game were those were not moving or running toward an objective in a straight line. In a game where the sniper rifles have no shaking during a.d.s. I don't know who in their right mind would do either of those things.  
 
I definately can't agree with you about the damage output, if you get caught off gaurd or are not fast enough you lose plain and simple, too many other so-called realistic games let players get away with taking shots in the back and then turning around and killing thier opponents because the individual dame for character models is just too high, the damage on bad company and the the other battlefield games is what draws me too it from other military shooers (cod). Also do you really want to complain about the knifing in THIS game. Trust me the knifing in this game is about as fair as it gets right now. I don't mind a guy getting a gauranteed stab in the back, what I do mind is guys teleporting through gunfire, again(cod), and people depending on that crap more than their actual aiming ability. 
 
As far as vehicle health regeneration, I don't think it's gonna be as bad as people are making it out to be, I mean if vehicles can do that , what the hell is the point of putting engineers in the game? 
Besides a good amount of the time that teams get slaughtered by vehicles is because teammates are too damn selfish to stop doing whatever it is their doing to help get rid of the things. It happens in cod when people DON'T shoot down killstreaks and it happens in BF when EVERYONE wants to snipe and no one wants to change classes to help the team.  
 
Anyway thats my two cents. 
 
Also I love the fact that I can pull out my side arm on this game and actually use it. Pistols should not be useless in fps, they should'nt be Halo 1 strong but not not useless. Bad Company  is the first game in while to make that so. That's why I like the damge system on this game every gun is RESPECTED as a tool of destruction, soilders should not be carrying pea shooters, ever.
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soldierg654342

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Edited By soldierg654342
@Ahmad_Metallic said:

They found that their PC-based content-rich skill-demanding not-so-rewarding games Battlefield 2 and Battlefield 2142 didn't sell well, whereas their console spin-off Bad Company 2 made serious bank, so instead of milking the Bad Company series with BC3 in two years time, they were too eager and corrupted Battlefield 3 in order to cash in on people's hopes by the end of this year.

I think you are drawing the wrong conclusion from that (also, I though BF2 sold really well? And 2142 didn't because everyone though it was just a mod). BF2 came out during that twilight period where PC games were waning and consoles were thriving. The Bad Company games were able to get more exposure due to a wider potential audience, not (necessarily) because they were "dumbed down." It makes business sense for EA to continue on the model that has turned the largest profit.  
 
However, I think that it might end up being a mistake. With the consoles bottoming out and the PC market booming, consumers are starting to gravitate more towards the PC style of games because there giving a larger return on their investment. 
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AlexW00d

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@Sjupp said:

@rb_man: I doubt @Ahmad_Metallic: dislikes BC2, what he dislikes is what its popularity has done to the development of BF3.

First of all there seem to be two camps here. The pro-evolution-accept-all-camp and, well.. Ahmad. I must say that while I've been super hyped over the return of the original Battlefield franchise, I knew it was not going to be the same. I believe Ahmad knew that aswell, he is just not able/willing to cope with it.

I was getting mad hyped over BF3 and felt that with the Alpha footage leaks my expectations has been brought down to a much more reasonable level. Thankfully enough I, prior to this, even got to the point where I could say to myself: You're overhyped, there is no way the game will be like the nostalgia-clouded BF2 you remember.

Thinking back, BF2 was flawed. Nostalgia clouds the minds of the BF2 vets and foolishness/ignorance/elitism is what keeps them from realizing that.

I get most of Ahmads points and know how he feels about the game well enough to truly understand why he created this thread and made the statements that he did. There was no way this was going to be a "New BF2" because that game just wouldn't work. The only two things bothering about BF3 are the nonexistant "commo rose" and the 3D spotting. The last one does truly sound worse in theory than it is in practice though.

The counter arguments made against the "commo rose" are mostly consisting of "use voice chat" which I find somewhat weak. I mean, based on my years of multiplayer experience, there are really few people using voice chat openly on public servers. People are not used to/comfortable with speaking in public and often in a language other than their mother tongue. The commo rose allows easy access to a bunch of different commands at the click of a button, enhancing the communication greatly.

The 3D spotting is indeed sort of a wallhack and I get where Ahmad is coming from. The thing is that everyone is not spotting people everywhere and many have not the skill/experience to use this effectively to their advantage. But yeah, a lot of kills have been gained by spotting randomly and shooting throught foliage.

Anyhow. I am buying the shit out of this game, I had set my expectations accordingly and I still hyped as hell.

I am going to quote this because more people should read it instead of being twats.

This post is almost everything Ahmad pointed out in the initial post, but worded a lot better, and gives more of either side. It also happens to be everything I would have posted too, so yay.

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Seppli

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Edited By Seppli
@Ahmad_Metallic said:

@emergency said:

You lack any compassion for people with a different waypoint, come accross as rude and unlikable. 

Hmm.. you really think so? I'm sorry if i come off as a little rude, but i like cutting to the chase and actually getting somewhere after an argument/discussion. I see people argue, they never go anywhere. they never reach any agreement or even an agreement to disagree, its always a competitive debate where one must take the other down until they get tired and stop, or fight
If being so straightforward and demanding an actual outcome from the conversation makes me sound rude, fuck it, its better than being what you call polite and getting nowhere after two hours of talking. 
 
 
@Seppli: That was a pretty neat little instrumental piece actually.. I wish i'd tried BC1, it sounds like an actual good game. How was the teamplay emphasis in that ?
 
BF:BC 1 introduced Rush mode. Obviously Rush is 100% more teamplay dependent than BF ever was before (outside of Titan mode, which I don't know). BF:BC 1 had a lot of great Rush maps (seeing how Harvest Day and Oasis are pretty much the best Rush and Conquest maps of vanilla BF:BC 2, that's a solid indicator of what was better back then). Forcing teamplay by having focus and restriction.
 
I just feel like lots of those old-school BF players who are complaining these days are low-skillers and lameplayers, who like to win rounds by bypassing competition and going for undefended capture points exclusively. Anti-Frontline-Heroes. Since BF:BC 1, DICE has been more about 'forcing firefights by map-design' - the core concept which makes maps like 'Strike at Karkand' so popular. DICE is designing more 'Strike at Karkand'-type maps than 'El Alamein'-maps these days because teamplay is bound to happen naturally within such tight confines.
 
Personally, I find BF:BC 1 & 2 way more teamplay oriented by design. Older BF games didn't emphasize teamplay by design. They rather hoped for teamplay by discipline and competence; which just aren't common enough virtues in a PUB environment - and that's the space where Battlefield actually happens for most of us.
 
 
 
To add some more non-popular opinons to the mix. Because of the aforementioned reasons, Medal of Honor's 'Combat Mission' mode is the most teamplay-dependent gametype DICE has developed thus far. Food for thought...
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DonPixel

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Edited By DonPixel

@emergency said:

This thread is so filled with hate it pretty much disgusts me. Also I'd like to point out that you are probably the worst and most stubborn person to argue with. You lack any compassion for people with a different waypoint, come accross as rude and unlikable. You seem to have some sort of hatred for people that actually liked BC2, as if you are superior because you liked BF2 or you played BF2 since you where 2 foot tall. Honestly, giantbomb is generally a light hearted forum full of intellectual discussion. This thread is neither, it's drivel and repetition. People come, disagree with you and you argue back at them. Then the cycle continues, until you've succesfully put the same across to multiple people. Then it all ends with you basically flaming/mocking them. Oh Humanity.

Plus I would like to do a "Bullet point" briefing about Ahmads opinions flip flop - At some point he said He didn't like the ACTUAL BATTLEFIELD 2 game play as it come in the box.. He enjoyed and wasted most of his time playing some kind of weird Gta like Battlefield Mod where you do no objectives but fool around blowing shit ( go check comment archives )... Now he can't stop talking about teamwork and objectives !?

Needless to say I do have a job.. Might as well waste my free time actually playing games that going into mad man conversation. ( sorry Ahmad bro but common go out, check some girls and take some air )

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TheHBK

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Edited By TheHBK

Thing for me is I don't get how people are saying MW3 is the same thing, I mean Blackops adds to fatigue with the same kind of gameplay but lets be real.  We have not seen anything remarkable in gameplay from BF3 that we didn't expect after having playing BC1 and 2.  I want this game but not sure if it will be everything I hope for because I loved BF2, but BC left bad tastes in my mouth. The characters and smaller maps felt, disappointing.  But hopefully BF3 is a modern BF2, not just a BC clone with a larger scope.

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AhmadMetallic

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Edited By AhmadMetallic
@DonPixel said:

@emergency said:

This thread is so filled with hate it pretty much disgusts me. Also I'd like to point out that you are probably the worst and most stubborn person to argue with. You lack any compassion for people with a different waypoint, come accross as rude and unlikable. You seem to have some sort of hatred for people that actually liked BC2, as if you are superior because you liked BF2 or you played BF2 since you where 2 foot tall. Honestly, giantbomb is generally a light hearted forum full of intellectual discussion. This thread is neither, it's drivel and repetition. People come, disagree with you and you argue back at them. Then the cycle continues, until you've succesfully put the same across to multiple people. Then it all ends with you basically flaming/mocking them. Oh Humanity.

Plus I would like to do a "Bullet point" briefing about Ahmads opinions flip flop - At some point he said He didn't like it the ACTUAL BATTLEFIELD 2 game play as it come in the box.. He enjoyed and wasted most of his time playing some kind of weird Gta like Battlefield Mod where you do no objectives but full around blowing shit ( go check comment archives )... Now he can't stop talking about teamwork and objectives !?

Needless to say I do have a job.. Might as well waste my free time actually playing games that going into mad man conversation. ( sorry Ahmad bro but common go out, check some girls and take some air )

Haha, what ? 
I remember that thread. I said that i didn't like the stale mod-less BF2 version and that i played the modded one. The only difference was that sprint was unlimited, the vehicles were much faster and the c4 more powerful.. 
it was the exact same game as the traditional Bf2, only with some performance enhancements. I capped flags til my eyes bled, dude. 
 
Also, I do have a job and make more money than the average 20 year old in my community, thank you very much :P
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jelekeloy

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Edited By jelekeloy
@TheHBK said:
Thing for me is I don't get how people are saying MW3 is the same thing, I mean Blackops adds to fatigue with the same kind of gameplay but lets be real.  We have not seen anything remarkable in gameplay from BF3 that we didn't expect after having playing BC1 and 2.  I want this game but not sure if it will be everything I hope for because I loved BF2, but BC left bad tastes in my mouth. The characters and smaller maps felt, disappointing.  But hopefully BF3 is a modern BF2, not just a BC clone with a larger scope.
The last thing you said was what I was trying to say earlier when I said that BF3 is like a mix of BF2 and BC. All I really want is a large scale Bad Company with more stuff going on because I like those games a lot.  
 
To each his own, I suppose.
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asurastrike

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Edited By asurastrike

I played a lot of 2142, I thought that game was great, but everyone who loved BF2 said it was awful. I guess we all have opinions.

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emergency

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Edited By emergency

@Ahmad_Metallic said:

@DonPixel said:

@emergency said:

This thread is so filled with hate it pretty much disgusts me. Also I'd like to point out that you are probably the worst and most stubborn person to argue with. You lack any compassion for people with a different waypoint, come accross as rude and unlikable. You seem to have some sort of hatred for people that actually liked BC2, as if you are superior because you liked BF2 or you played BF2 since you where 2 foot tall. Honestly, giantbomb is generally a light hearted forum full of intellectual discussion. This thread is neither, it's drivel and repetition. People come, disagree with you and you argue back at them. Then the cycle continues, until you've succesfully put the same across to multiple people. Then it all ends with you basically flaming/mocking them. Oh Humanity.

Plus I would like to do a "Bullet point" briefing about Ahmads opinions flip flop - At some point he said He didn't like it the ACTUAL BATTLEFIELD 2 game play as it come in the box.. He enjoyed and wasted most of his time playing some kind of weird Gta like Battlefield Mod where you do no objectives but full around blowing shit ( go check comment archives )... Now he can't stop talking about teamwork and objectives !?

Needless to say I do have a job.. Might as well waste my free time actually playing games that going into mad man conversation. ( sorry Ahmad bro but common go out, check some girls and take some air )

Haha, what ? I remember that thread. I said that i didn't like the stale mod-less BF2 version and that i played the modded one. The only difference was that sprint was unlimited, the vehicles were much faster and the c4 more powerful.. it was the exact same game as the traditional Bf2, only with some performance enhancements. I capped flags til my eyes bled, dude. Also, I do have a job and make more money than the average 20 year old in my community, thank you very much :P

Unlimited sprint? Faster than real life vehicles? FUCK THIS SHIT. You talk about 3D spotting, I think I prefer that to unlimited sprinting :P

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kermoosh

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Edited By kermoosh

i understand your attitude, though i played bf2 on the xbox
but frankly the game hasn't come out yet. the lists of negatives you wrote, while may be true, have not yet been experienced and you won't really know how they play out until the game is released

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warxsnake

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Edited By warxsnake

I agree with pretty much everything in the OP, unfortunately, but it's best to wait before judging. All there is is a multiplayer trailer and a leak of the alpha build.

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@emergency said:

@JEC03 said:

@emergency said:

@JEC03 said:

Still there's no point to it at all I would be embarrassed to put that in my game.

Well, it's not your game is it? It's designed by a team of people who collectively have a much better judgement call than you. Would you be embarassed to put anything that is not realistic into your game? You haven't played the game yet. You haven't seen a vehicle regen health in MP yet. You don't know jackshit about whether it's only regens 1 of it's 100 health or all of it. It could be a very well integrated system where, tanks can be disabled but after a period of time they will regen up to 20% hp so that they become functional again.

I don't like noob features in my game and that's exactly what it is.

Go play Arma 2 or BF2 and don't bother buying BF3 in that case. You won't like it, THOSE DAMN NOOBS WITH THEIR DAMN WALLHACK AIMSYSTEM AND REGENERATING INVINCIBLE HEALTH TANK will kill you.

Oh believe me I will have a fun time owning these hackers!!!
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iam3green

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Edited By iam3green

well that is what happens when you hype the game.
 
i don't know about this game. i mean like getting it for PC or consoles since i don't have a great PC to play games on.

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AhmadMetallic

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Edited By AhmadMetallic

I'd like to point out that i wasn't saying the game is bad, I was saying that it doesn't deserve its title because it doesnt feel related to the games its supposed to be a sequel to. 
With that said, I must say that the game looks amazing. I know i'm going to enjoy it, but the teamplay-powered aspects of it are so contradicting and the focus of the game is on all the wrong things. That is why a game of this magnitude including and excluding the gameplay features i listed, feels like more of a joke than a serious honest project..  
But some of the people posting here had interesting points of view that slightly altered the way i view these design decisions. 

 
@somejerk:   @emergency:  @iAmJohn@natetodamax:   @xobballox@PhatSeeJay:  @Agent47:     @ViciousReiven:   @Vodun:   @MaFoLu:  @dagas  @Sjupp:   @scarace360:   @Cherubim:   @MordeaniisChaos:  @EdTwo:   @will313:   @RiotBananas:   @kermoosh:   @warxsnake:   
 Hey guys. Since you're the ones who mostly discussed 3D spotting, i'd like your opinion on this new Battlefield 3 footage: 
 

 
That player got over 7 kills without seeing any of the enemies he's shooting at. He's camping on a rock, getting digital icons telling him where to shoot, he pointed at them and pulled the trigger, he got multiple kills.  
How do you interpret that?  
P.S. If the footage quality isn't too good to have a clear view of what he's aiming at, its trees 
 
Also, since this is a competitive video game, don't only think about it from the shooter's "marking and executing enemies" perspective, but from the victims' perspective: One of the most criticized aspects of some shooters is the good old "I'm being shot at, but there's no one there" joke. 
Only a sniper is supposed to be able to do that, shoot at you while not being there for you to know the source of the bullets, because a sniper has a long range sniper rifle. but having most of the infantry soldiers being able to be the shooter who is no-where to be seen like that, really wrecks the game. We all know how frustrating it is in BC2 to be running towards an objective, getting tapped and dying. Then the killcam shows some assault guy camping a good distance away and aiming his gun.. you're like who is he, what is he doing and how did he get to me?
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Cloudenvy

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Edited By Cloudenvy

@Ahmad_Metallic:

I honestly think that's totally fine, legitimate strategy to have dudes out in the field spotting dudes and have another hang back take care of them : )

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deactivated-5a00c029ab7c1

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The OP is right about everything it almost seems like DICE does this shit to piss off the hardcore fans and bring in the casuals I miss challenging FPS.To me BF2 was the perfect blend of teamwork and strategy and hell of alot of fun.BFBC2 wasn't a bad a game hell I enjoyed it alot but it did not have the same staying power as BF2  did vehicles in that game felt like a big after thought and the choppers controlled horribly it was more based on infantry and felt like COD at times.What's the point of a engineer now when vehicles can magically heal themselves same goes for reg health on the player no point for the medic.I don't care if it takes longer to regenerate its completing defeating the purpose of what those kits bring to the game and the teamwork that's associated with it.And as far 3D spotting it practically is a aimbot or really a hitbox indicator there's a simple trick sniping in bfbc2 just aim for the top of the triangle at a far distance and headshot 99 percent of the time.But all that said I'm still looking forward to BF3 and I hope Dice listens to the community this time around.But I got pretty strong feeling that the only improvement this game has over bf2 is the graphics and destruction everything else is either less or not there at all and it still wouldn't feel like a true sequel maybe to bfbc2 but not BF2. 

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tim_the_corsair

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Edited By tim_the_corsair

Hardcore mode ON

/thread

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jetsetwillie

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Edited By jetsetwillie

so did you want the too just remake BF2 again. if BF3 isn't quite what you expect, and we know how much the modern gamer expects these days... why not just play BF2.  

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thehexeditor

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Edited By thehexeditor

@Tim_the_Corsair said:

Hardcore mode ON /thread

Actually, no.

If you bothered to read some of the points people have brought up, you would realize the problem is greater than that.

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Hitchenson

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Edited By Hitchenson

People getting too hyped and then crushed is always a great thing to watch. Game looks good, I'll play BF2 for BF2, BF3 for BF3.

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ikwal

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Edited By ikwal

If you don't like it don't buy it, simple. I enjoyed BC2 very much and don't see the problems you are describing.

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EpicSteve

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Edited By EpicSteve

I don't really get your point, at all. I will agree that vehicle regeneration is really weird. The suppressing system sound fantastic though. That's how combat works in real life, you find an area where enemies probably are, and unload a bunch of ordinance on that target.

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KaneRobot

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Edited By KaneRobot

Using stupid "funny" Photoshops of game box art  to make your point is a surefire way to get people to tune out right away. 
 
Regardless, BFBC2 was easily the most fun Battlefield game since 1942, so...I guess thanks for making me more excited for BF3.

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Dingofighter

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Edited By Dingofighter

@Ahmad_Metallic: I wasn't saying the spotting mechanic was great as it is, I was suggesting a change that might make it better.

If the spotting mechanic didn't follow the target, that would only happen if the guy who was spotted didn't change position.

That way it would pretty much be no different from someone saying "There is a guy over there". It would just make it much easier to tell your teammates that you saw an enemy, aka teamwork would be easier, and it seems like that is what you want more of.

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ClaritySam

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Edited By ClaritySam
@Rolyatkcinmai said:

It's amusing watching one insane person defend himself against literally everyone else.

ALL OF THESE FEATURES ARE HACKS. JUST GIVE ME THE GAME THAT CAME OUT IN 2005 AGAIN

GAHHHHH WHY DOESN'T ANYONE AGREE WITH ME I JUST WANT TO BE LOVED

This.  U Ah mad bro?
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AhmadMetallic

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Edited By AhmadMetallic
@MaFoLu:  I didn't say you claimed it was great, or bad :) i'm asking for your opinion on that new video
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scarace360

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Edited By scarace360
@Ahmad_Metallic said:
@MaFoLu:  I didn't say you claimed it was great, or bad :) i'm asking for your opinion on that new video
They really need to change that mechanic some way. i still say putting a dot on the mini map is the best way.
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Wuddel

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Edited By Wuddel

They are not making classic shooters with PC-complexity anymore. The shooters showing up on the PC are console ports, or (lately) are movie into the MMO direction. Strategy games and MMORPGs are the only remaining genuine PC genres. For better or worse. I really do not care for shooters on the PC anymore.

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Edited By PhatSeeJay

@scarace360 said:

@Ahmad_Metallic said:
@MaFoLu: I didn't say you claimed it was great, or bad :) i'm asking for your opinion on that new video
They really need to change that mechanic some way. i still say putting a dot on the mini map is the best way.

Or simply make it distance and movement sensitive. If the target moves; the arrow stays where it is, since it's last known position, and if a shooter is too far away he should only be able to see it on his mini map and not on the HUD.

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SeriouslyNow

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Edited By SeriouslyNow

@Ahmad_Metallic: Let em think what they think man. Thing is, it'll be toggleable just like in BC2.

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scarace360

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Edited By scarace360
@PhatSeeJay said:

@scarace360 said:

@Ahmad_Metallic said:
@MaFoLu: I didn't say you claimed it was great, or bad :) i'm asking for your opinion on that new video
They really need to change that mechanic some way. i still say putting a dot on the mini map is the best way.

Or simply make it distance and movement sensitive. If the target moves; the arrow stays where it is, since it's last known position, and if a shooter is too far away he should only be able to see it on his mini map and not on the HUD.

Thats a good idea.
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Edited By fuddles

I think it's justifiable that you don't want them to drastically change a game you've clearly grown attached to, but if it was literally the same game with new maps and pretty graphics, then people would just complain that they didn't change anything. I can't say if any of the changes are for better or for worse, because I haven't really played the game yet, but so far from what I've seem I'm optimistic. 

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joshy9411

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Edited By joshy9411

@allworkandlowpay: right with you on that one. it seems to me people are just getting butthurt over any and all changes. i think BC2 is a brilliant game, i still play it, not regularly, but it's definitely my online shooter of choice. are DICE expected to forget all inovations made since BF2 and just rebuild it on a nicer engine? i don't think so...

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Bollard

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Edited By Bollard
@PhatSeeJay said:

@scarace360 said:

@Ahmad_Metallic said:
@MaFoLu: I didn't say you claimed it was great, or bad :) i'm asking for your opinion on that new video
They really need to change that mechanic some way. i still say putting a dot on the mini map is the best way.

Or simply make it distance and movement sensitive. If the target moves; the arrow stays where it is, since it's last known position, and if a shooter is too far away he should only be able to see it on his mini map and not on the HUD.

That's one of the suggestions that's been floating around a lot. I quite like it, the idea that it shows up briefly and then fades away, without ever moving. That way it'd be useful for pointing out if you had been flanked or a dude in one very specific window, but would tell you his whereabouts exactly for the next 10 seconds.
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Mooshu

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Edited By Mooshu

Pretty much the only thing I'm with you on is the 3D spotting and lack of a commo rose. I really hope that shit changes.

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phonics

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Edited By phonics

How about making spotting the same way it was in Battlefield 2. Oh wait you can't because that would be too taxing on console players (who obv are the main market no matter how hard they try to tell you 'ITS PC FIRST DAWG BATTLEFIELD 2 YEAH MAN'. 
 I'm not expecting anything but Shit Company 3 at this point and I suggest you don't either. 

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Edited By AuthenticM

What's the difference between "2D" and "3D" spotting?