My thoughts on the Battlefield 3 BETA


 These past few days have been confusing for me personally. In the months leading up to the game's release, every long time fan of the franchise who loved the predecessor of this game, the game that is considered the pinnacle of Battlefield, Battlefield 2, was extremely worried and confused.
Several factors caused this confusion, the most significant of which are the EA CEO's comments about BF3 being designed to "take down COD", the developer's comments about creating a "game for everyone" and that they are " lowering the complexity threshold" and going with a "play it your own way" motto, not to mention the fact that the most streamlined of all the BF titles, the console spin-off sequel, Bad Company 2, made crazy bank, and we all know what cash does to a developer's style.
 
To make a long story short, there was a lot of worrying, a lot of anticipation, I didn't know what to expect, I didn't know whether in the next few years I will be once again having the best multiplayer experience of my life (by having BF3 be truly similar to BF2, not identical, but similar as a sequel should be), or whether I was gonna be playing Bad Company 2.5.
 
After playing the BETA for a few days, the highlight of which was 5 full rounds of the conquest 64 map Caspian Border, and of course a dozen of Operation Corridor, ahem, Metro, rounds, I've grown even more confused.
 
Battlefield 3 is extremely beautiful and genuine and mindblowing and amazing, but at the same damned time it is extremely broken and riddled with bad design choices and poor execution.
 
I'll start with the good, then deal with the bad. I'll be focusing more on Conquest, because I simply do not care for Rush.
 

What makes Battlefield 3 the game I have awaited for years

A new exciting experience
1. It does it's own thing. Like I mentioned above, the biggest worry for anyone who wished upon a star for BF3 to be a genuine and original game, was that it might have the Bad Company infection, just because that series made money.
I am pleased to witness for myself that Battlefield 3 does not borrow anything from anyone. It is its own game, has its own aesthetics, the sounds and the graphics, the art and the map design, the gun feel and handling and recoil, the bullet drop and velocity, the soldier movement, the game's pacing whether it's a conflict over MCOMS and advancing against the enemy, or a conflict over control points (flags) and the better team coming out on top conquering and victorious.
Battlefield 3 is its own game and I found that to be an outstanding way to start the game. By feeling like I've never played it before.
 
2.  Innovation. DICE were hell-bent on innovating in this new Battlefield. You can just sense it as you play the game, that this developer did not want to settle for the same old gameplay features.. They added a suppression system that blurs your vision and weakens your aim (when you get suppressed - shot at). That system needs its own special class that is best at suppressive fire, so now the Support class using LMGs has a higher purpose than just spraying bullets. Suppressive fire is a task that you do on the battlefield, and thus a new XP score is born, Suppression Assist. See how beautiful DICE's development strategy is? They know how to throw something in the air and just make a rainbow out of it. They know how to connect the dots and make all the different aspects in the game have an interrelated connection that influences gameplay.
Other great innovations:
  • Sniper glint- Being a sniper is not something easy. And it is extremely deadly. If you want to snipe, you must have the skill and patience and persistence of a sniper.. Bad Company 2 proved that not giving the sniper something to worry about, turned sniper into a big fat dick shoved deep up the game flow's ass. Now I do agree that the glint is excessive and exposed snipers way too often, but if they tone it down and tweak it just right, it will teach snipers to keep moving thus making them more beneficial for their teams (spotting, etc..). That glint, along with the fact that the only one-shot-kill a sniper could get is a headshot, will teach the kids not to waste their times wanting to "snipe noobs" because its beyond their attention span
  • Flashlights and laser attachments: A beautiful addition to the guns, those two add-ons have very tactical advantages yet may expose you or have you blind your enemies.. Learning to use your flashlight, when to turn it off or on, and when to blind your enemy with your laser attachment and when to keep it off in order to stay stealthy, is going to be a difficult lesson and a challenge I look forward to
  • Dynamic lighting: You can shoot out any lamp/light in the world. Enough said! This could change firefights as we know them, creating darkness around you will help you be undetected, and shooting out your enemy's lights and using their flashlight to know where they are is a smart move I'm sure we're gonna be seeing a lot.
  • Vehicle disablement 
  • Revive opt-out
  • Several new toys like the EOD bot, MAV, laser designator for jets, spawn beacon, etc..
  • A lot more!
BF2
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Posted by AhmadMetallic

 These past few days have been confusing for me personally. In the months leading up to the game's release, every long time fan of the franchise who loved the predecessor of this game, the game that is considered the pinnacle of Battlefield, Battlefield 2, was extremely worried and confused.
Several factors caused this confusion, the most significant of which are the EA CEO's comments about BF3 being designed to "take down COD", the developer's comments about creating a "game for everyone" and that they are " lowering the complexity threshold" and going with a "play it your own way" motto, not to mention the fact that the most streamlined of all the BF titles, the console spin-off sequel, Bad Company 2, made crazy bank, and we all know what cash does to a developer's style.
 
To make a long story short, there was a lot of worrying, a lot of anticipation, I didn't know what to expect, I didn't know whether in the next few years I will be once again having the best multiplayer experience of my life (by having BF3 be truly similar to BF2, not identical, but similar as a sequel should be), or whether I was gonna be playing Bad Company 2.5.
 
After playing the BETA for a few days, the highlight of which was 5 full rounds of the conquest 64 map Caspian Border, and of course a dozen of Operation Corridor, ahem, Metro, rounds, I've grown even more confused.
 
Battlefield 3 is extremely beautiful and genuine and mindblowing and amazing, but at the same damned time it is extremely broken and riddled with bad design choices and poor execution.
 
I'll start with the good, then deal with the bad. I'll be focusing more on Conquest, because I simply do not care for Rush.
 

What makes Battlefield 3 the game I have awaited for years

A new exciting experience
1. It does it's own thing. Like I mentioned above, the biggest worry for anyone who wished upon a star for BF3 to be a genuine and original game, was that it might have the Bad Company infection, just because that series made money.
I am pleased to witness for myself that Battlefield 3 does not borrow anything from anyone. It is its own game, has its own aesthetics, the sounds and the graphics, the art and the map design, the gun feel and handling and recoil, the bullet drop and velocity, the soldier movement, the game's pacing whether it's a conflict over MCOMS and advancing against the enemy, or a conflict over control points (flags) and the better team coming out on top conquering and victorious.
Battlefield 3 is its own game and I found that to be an outstanding way to start the game. By feeling like I've never played it before.
 
2.  Innovation. DICE were hell-bent on innovating in this new Battlefield. You can just sense it as you play the game, that this developer did not want to settle for the same old gameplay features.. They added a suppression system that blurs your vision and weakens your aim (when you get suppressed - shot at). That system needs its own special class that is best at suppressive fire, so now the Support class using LMGs has a higher purpose than just spraying bullets. Suppressive fire is a task that you do on the battlefield, and thus a new XP score is born, Suppression Assist. See how beautiful DICE's development strategy is? They know how to throw something in the air and just make a rainbow out of it. They know how to connect the dots and make all the different aspects in the game have an interrelated connection that influences gameplay.
Other great innovations:
  • Sniper glint- Being a sniper is not something easy. And it is extremely deadly. If you want to snipe, you must have the skill and patience and persistence of a sniper.. Bad Company 2 proved that not giving the sniper something to worry about, turned sniper into a big fat dick shoved deep up the game flow's ass. Now I do agree that the glint is excessive and exposed snipers way too often, but if they tone it down and tweak it just right, it will teach snipers to keep moving thus making them more beneficial for their teams (spotting, etc..). That glint, along with the fact that the only one-shot-kill a sniper could get is a headshot, will teach the kids not to waste their times wanting to "snipe noobs" because its beyond their attention span
  • Flashlights and laser attachments: A beautiful addition to the guns, those two add-ons have very tactical advantages yet may expose you or have you blind your enemies.. Learning to use your flashlight, when to turn it off or on, and when to blind your enemy with your laser attachment and when to keep it off in order to stay stealthy, is going to be a difficult lesson and a challenge I look forward to
  • Dynamic lighting: You can shoot out any lamp/light in the world. Enough said! This could change firefights as we know them, creating darkness around you will help you be undetected, and shooting out your enemy's lights and using their flashlight to know where they are is a smart move I'm sure we're gonna be seeing a lot.
  • Vehicle disablement 
  • Revive opt-out
  • Several new toys like the EOD bot, MAV, laser designator for jets, spawn beacon, etc..
  • A lot more!
BF2
Posted by ze_ro

Yeah I pretty much agree 100% with you sir.

...the hit registration thing, oh dear... it makes me rage so hard.

Posted by natetodamax

I wouldn't call sniper glint or laser attachments innovations. The former was in Medal Of Honor Airborne and the latter was in Rainbow Six: Vegas.

Online
Posted by Akrid

Totally agree.

Posted by TheKeyboardDemon

I agree with a lot of the negative points you mentioned. I have been a squad leader and had no idea what that meant except I was getting random points for squad members following orders, I have no idea when or how I issued those orders!

Team/squad features, I have seen loads of Suppression and Assist points awards and this does help push me further up the leader board, sometimes I have been on 2 kills and had more points than someone on 5 kills putting me above them, but it doesn't make it clear why I got those points, there simply is no recognition for good squad play and if there was I think we would start to see players use more team/squad based tactics instead of just all running/facing the same general direction because that's where the other guys are at.

I also agree with the good points though and I am looking forward to enjoying some loud sunday evenings with you guys while we blast those nasty orange triangles to the dark side of our monitors.

Posted by zombie2011

This game is messed up, and this isn't even a beta the game is out in couple weeks.

Edited by Humanity

I hope the one-hit-kill thing will be fixed and thats not an intended "realism" trait of the game. The frustration of getting downed out of nowhere in a second is too much.

As for the airplanes I think they're being careful because jets in Battlefield 2 were like the plague in the right hands and there was almost no practical and efficient anti-air in the game. You literally had to get to a jet and try to out-topgun those doods. You'd have games that end with a player going 65-3 and having almost never touched the ground. (like seriously, they'd parachute into parked planes when their HP got too low)

Anyone remember helicopters in Desert Combat Alpha? lol now that was a true test of piloting skills.. good times..

Online
Posted by Zatoichi_Sanjuro

You forgot the UMP... it is just so easy to annihiliate the opposition with it equipped.

The pistols are also a "brain-wrong". You can drop someone far easier with a 9mm pistol than with an assault rifle. Pistols are secondaries/backups in real life for a reason.

Considering how DICE just let the ridiculous sniper class go un-fixed for BC2, I don't have much hope they'll fix some of the more glaring imbalances.

I'm also quite sure they borrowed the suppression effect, mobile spawn/rally points from PR. It's a pity they didn't borrow PR's squad size, squad management, and kit restrictions.

Posted by TheWyotee93

Before we all freak out just remember its a beta. There's a reason their letting people play it. I do agree with a lot of your points though.

Posted by clstirens

strangely enough, most of these glitches and issues WEREN'T present in the Alpha I participated in. Whereas most of the glitches present in the Alpha are gone.

The poor UI design choices, though? Not good.

Posted by SlasherMan

I think I've finally learned my lesson with DICE. Their games are best played a few months after release (at least). I'll give them time to iron things out, patch the game and polish it up as much as possible before I hand over my money this time around. You can be sure a lot of these issues will still be there once the game is released if the past is any indication.

In the meantime, I will have plenty of things to tide me over.

Posted by Spoonman671

My biggest complaint is probably how, in Rush mode, attackers' tickets get completely refilled by blowing both M-COMs.  I understand how difficult it can be to balance a multi-stage attack/defend mode like this, but it's really frustrating to be kicking ass on defense only to have it all completely undone because the baddies took the objective while you were waiting to respawn.  I think Bad Company 2 had the same system, but for whatever reason (75 tickets vs 100 in BF3?) it didn't bother me as much as it has in this beta.

Edited by Mikemcn

"Who cares if the multiplayer is garbage, it's all about the singleplayer!!!!! We're the next COD!"- DICE and EA.

Posted by Vodun

I think these negative points aren't really that much of a problem, but they become such painful thorns in the eye when the rest of the game is so awesome. It's like a little piece of shit in your soup. It's super tiny...but there's still feces in your dinner.

Posted by UnrealDP

Eh, i played the 360 version (Blasphemy!) and i loved it, it's a lot of unpolished beta fun. I can see how if you had expectations for this to be "The Call of Duty Killer" or the second coming of Battlefield 2 for the consoles then i can see how the console port could be disappointing, but i really like the neat (but kind of novel) flashlight/laser pointer and the great for a 360 game graphics. It's not some kind of grand departure from the norm like some people make it out to be, but as a console, multiplayer focused, FPS much in the vein of bad company. It's a great successor to Bad Company with a tonal shift and some fun new mechanics. I'm loving it an it's everything it should be, but nothing more.

Also i love the suppression and spotting mechanics.

Posted by Zidd

@AhmadMetallic said:

There is no squad management ingame. Squad management will be on the "Battlelog side of things", and not only will that be game-breaking and inconvenient, but I assure you it's gonna be so broken it's going to make noises.

I'm pretty sure this is so that parties can stay together no matter which game they join also people who weren't playing together never used squads in BF2 in my experience

Online
Posted by JEC03

Dice is doing a real good job on ruining everything that use to be great about the BF series.

Edited by evilrazer

In the last part you were talking about stingers being too powerful against planes and I strongly disagree with you. If this will prevent the situation which was common to BF2, where a certain BF addict with no social life would jump in the plane at the start of the match and keep you on your toes to the last minute, and never die, then I'm gonna say "Yes" for more ways to take down aerial machinery.

And again, I'm pretty much with you on everything else, especially squad management and squad commanders. Two things why I choose battlefield over any other shooter every time I have a choice done so poorly.

Posted by mfpantst

@ze_ro said:

Yeah I pretty much agree 100% with you sir.

...the hit registration thing, oh dear... it makes me rage so hard.

This. Did not know this was a design choice- that makes me pretty mad. Still going to buy the game like yourself.

Edited by Seppli

@AhmadMetallic:

Agree with many points, except about Battlelog and the gunplay and squad leaders.

  • Battlelog is in beta too and its core concept is extremely viable for a game like Battlefield. I may not dig that there are not enough servers for the demand in open beta and that currently there is no way to queue up for slots - but I like how it's Battlefield Central and everything Battlefield is right there. Considering that there's a tonne of people hammering away on Battlelog, it's one of the fastest and most responsive websites I've visited in my life. Battlelog is a work in progress and it will get a whole lot better for sure, and it already is superior in almost every way to regular in-game menus. As for Squad-Management. True, it ain't all there yet. Not in Battlelog and not in-game. I don't fault Battlelog for that though and eventually, doing Squad management out of Battlelog will be superior, since you can easily see all your friends there - especially with XBL and PSN and Facebook synchronization. It just has to work when in-game. There's no difference between in-game squad management and alt-tabbing and doing squad management live in Battlelog, except for Battlelog being functionally superior (at least as soon as that works as it has to).
  • I love the general direction of the gunplay with low basic TTK and more damage drop-off and spray/deviation and bullet drop at range depending on weapon type. And no, it's not client-side hitscan. It is server-side and most issues are related to that increased-dmg-bug on running tangos and high-ping players. First time ever every gun type feels completely viable and yet retains a unique feel and flair. There's some balance issues though. Stuff like the completely overpowered Magnum HANDCANNON and the SVD and MK11 will get sorted out soon enough.
  • Agree about the Squadleader position being a token to BF2 fans to keep them quiet. Disagree about everything else. I don't want hardcoded 'special' people. It's enough of a hassle that key vehicular assets easily fall into the hands of dullards and cowards without drive to win. I don't need to create VIPs who have the power to ruin the spawnsystem or get other important responsibilities the regular pubbie will screw up; and hence screw me over with. If you play with friends, what's the point of it anyways, you'll already have all the tools for working together - camaraderie and communication. Common sense cannot be hardcoded into a game and commanded to the player. Common sense can only be designed into a game by circumstance.
Edited by JP_Russell

@Spoonman671 said:

I think Bad Company 2 had the same system, but for whatever reason (75 tickets vs 100 in BF3?) it didn't bother me as much as it has in this beta.

Attackers started out with 100 tickets in BC2, but they only got up to an additional 50 tickets with each set of M-COM's they took out.

Posted by spartanlolz92

yeah im a little worried about the jets as a helicopter and jet jockey i want the right balance i think its great they gave the engineer the stinger so he can shoot them down but im hoping its range is very short for the lock on.

Posted by Enigma777

I agree with a lot of your points. My biggest problem is that i just feels like a re-skinned version of BC2, but then again I've only played the Metro map. I'll hold off my final decision till I get my hands on a helicopter or tank, but I'm not really impressed right now.  
 
Also the game just doesn't feel like it's finished. I wonder if EA rushing to release this before MW3 hits will end up biting them in the ass...

Posted by emergency

@zombie2011 said:

This game is messed up, and this isn't even a beta the game is out in couple weeks.

Yeah man, this isn't even a beta even though it's a month old build. Very clever.

Posted by AhmadMetallic
@natetodamax said:

I wouldn't call sniper glint or laser attachments innovations. The former was in Medal Of Honor Airborne and the latter was in Rainbow Six: Vegas.

It's not that they created those things, it's that they re-created them and implemented them in a way that radically changes gameplay and makes you think twice before turning on your flashlight in a dark subway or camping on a high hill with a sniper rifle.
 
 
@Mikemcn said:

"Who cares if the multiplayer is garbage, it's all about the singleplayer!!!!! We're the next COD!"- DICE and EA.

oh you.
 
 
@evilrazer:  The solution to BF2's overpowered rapist jets is not this, though. I'm all for balancing the jets and taking their supernatural power away, but gimping them in this way that they no longer have bombs to drop and ALSO giving engineers a one-shot-rocket that automatically seeks the jets and hit them, not to mention how they get disabled pretty quick.. that is too much. The jets are underpowered at this point
Posted by RandomInternetUser

Thank you for the new wallpaper. That is a fucking great image.

I agree with a lot of what you said. No in-game BC2/BF2 style squad management in game is fucking bananas. The insta-deaths/kills are really, really annoying and induce rage quickly. The squad leader is useless as of now, but that doesn't mean they can't put in way-point features around release (And honestly I don't care either way, BC2 didn't have squad leaders and I was totally fine with that). I was never convinced totally that battlelog would be better than an in-game browser and such. I think it's a great addition and having a social stats site that everyone will use is awesome and it works good enough as a server browser and shit. However, there are definitely problems like squad management being available only there, like you mentioned. Don't really care too much about the lack of a map as I hardly ever used the map in any BF game as I can usually learn a map pretty well after two to four rounds depending on size. K/D being the only stat displayed is true, but those who do a bunch of team work things can be noticed on the scoreboard by the fact that they have a ton more score (which is what ranks you overall) than someone with the same amount of kills as them. It would be good if they added in more specific team work stats to the end of game score board, but again, not something I'm terribly upset by.

Sorry for the rambly sort-of paragraph thing, I just woke up and kept scrolling up and addressing things you said and it sort of turned out like that. Anyways, my last thoughts are that there are problems (just like BF2 had problems) but overall the game is simply astonishing and I'll gladly wait for some patches to fix some of the messed up stuff. If the inconsistent bullet damage is the only thing fixed here, I'll be extremely happy honestly.

Posted by Spoonman671
@JP_Russell said:

@Spoonman671 said:

I think Bad Company 2 had the same system, but for whatever reason (75 tickets vs 100 in BF3?) it didn't bother me as much as it has in this beta.

Attackers started out with 100 tickets in BC2, but they only got up to an additional 50 tickets with each set of M-COM's they took out.

Really?  Maybe during one of the BC2 betas they would completely restock the tickets.  Or I could just be confused.
Posted by Pie
@Spoonman671 said:
@JP_Russell said:

@Spoonman671 said:

I think Bad Company 2 had the same system, but for whatever reason (75 tickets vs 100 in BF3?) it didn't bother me as much as it has in this beta.

Attackers started out with 100 tickets in BC2, but they only got up to an additional 50 tickets with each set of M-COM's they took out.

Really?  Maybe during one of the BC2 betas they would completely restock the tickets.  Or I could just be confused.
Maybe he's talking about the PC version (makes sense to give them 100 tickets due to increased player counts) because as I know it in BC2 you start with 75 tickets and every set of M-Coms you blow up completely restock that
Online
Posted by Azquelt

I liked your article but there are a few points I'd disagree on.

Squad Leaders

This game is going to primarily be played by two groups of people: those playing with friends in their own squad, and those playing with strangers. For the first group, the squad leadership is irrelevant since they'll be chatting to each other over voice chat and will direct themselves that way. For those playing with strangers, the less you have to rely on the squad leader to do their job, the better. I don't want my game ruined by having an idiot as squad leader who spends more time dead than he does alive. Allowing spawning on any squad member keeps the game playable when there are a couple of idiots in the positions of command.

The only other alternative would be to take a MAG-style approach where you have to have a certain amount of experience before you can be a squad/platoon/battle leader and then also have to opt-in as a potential leader in each game, ensuring you don't get apathetic squad leaders who just want to dash madly at the enemy.

Kill/Death

Although K/D now gets a mention on the scoreboard, overall score is what matters and teamwork is evidenced in the difference between them. When I go 1/9 and come second on the team, it's bloody obvious to anyone that my points came from healing, revives, suppression, assists, spotting and taking objectives. While having a "team action" column sounds positive, the difference between making an attack order(?), laying down suppressing fire (50), spotting an enemy (20), reviving a friendly (100) and having an squad member spawn on you (10) is so great that it would render the final number either meaningless or identical to your point score.

Battlelog

Battlelog is currently buggy and certain things only seem to work intermittently. There are some inherent problems, the web wasn't designed for real-time event notifications and I do wonder if party join will ever be completely reliable, but if it worked reliably and as intended, I think it would be acceptable. It's the first of it's kind (some hope it will also be the last) and it's definitely still teething but I'm still hopeful that they'll progressively address the issues it has, though I'm pretty certain it won't be anywhere near perfect on release.

Posted by AhmadMetallic
@Seppli said:

Battlelog: As for Squad-Management. True, it ain't all there yet. Not in Battlelog and not in-game. I don't fault Battlelog for that though and eventually, doing Squad management out of Battlelog will be superior, since you can easily see all your friends there - especially with XBL and PSN and Facebook synchronization. It just has to work when in-game. There's no difference between in-game squad management and alt-tabbing and doing squad management live in Battlelog, except for Battlelog being functionally superior (at least as soon as that works as it has to).

I see no problem in alt-tabbing to battlelog to manage my squad or join/leave one, since BF3 proved to be alt-tab-friendly, but do you really believe that the website will get to a point where these services are as solid as clicking 'join' or 'leave' on a squad in the BC2 squad menu? or as solid and efficient as opening your "invite players" squad window in BF2 was? Hey, here's hoping that it is, but let's get real. Some things just don't belong on a website, one that I have a feeling will remain somewhat clunky.

  • I love the general direction of the gunplay with low basic TTK and more damage drop-off and spray/deviation and bullet drop at range depending on weapon type. And no, it's not client-side hitscan. It is server-side and most issues are related to that increased-dmg-bug on running tangos and high-ping players.
The high damage bug on running enemies and high ping players isn't the only problem with gunplay. There's the part where the bullet keep reaching you after you take cover and you end up dying in cover. Or the one where you literally got shot through cover and start staring at t thinking there's holes in it. Are you saying all of these mishaps are caused to high ping players? Cause in that case, 90% of the player base is high ping players.. There's something beyond a bug here that makes the gunplay random and unfair, I dunno what it is, but it needs fixing. 
 

First time ever every gun type feels completely viable and yet retains a unique feel and flair. There's some balance issues though. Stuff like the completely overpowered Magnum HANDCANNON and the SVD and MK11 will get sorted out soon enough.

Agreed on both accounts


  • Agree about the Squadleader position being a token to BF2 fans to keep them quiet. Disagree about everything else. I don't want hardcoded 'special' people. It's enough of a hassle that key vehicular assets easily fall into the hands of dullards and cowards without drive to win. I don't need to create VIPs who have the power to ruin the spawnsystem or get other important responsibilities the regular pubbie will screw up; and hence screw me over with. If you play with friends, what's the point of it anyways, you'll already have all the tools for working together - camaraderie and communication. Common sense cannot be hardcoded into a game and commanded to the player. Common sense can only be designed into a game by circumstance.
What the hell are you talking about? This is one of your arguments that are based more on theory than on real time gameplay.. There's no one hardcore here, no VIPs and no one screwing anyone over. When people are running together on a map, and there's a leader who sets a waypoint for the rest of us to know what our current goal is, the gameplay becomes much more refined and clear and focused. You don't like this leader, you can create 8 other squads.. No one is limiting you or forcing you, so don't talk like a rape victim :P
About the leader being the only spawn, I feel we won't get anywhere discussing that, since IMO i cherish some form of hierarchy and objective pursuit whereas you.. Well, I don't even know how you play.
Posted by mosdl

The problem with that video is that lag could explain most of those issues - client thinks you got killed in one hit, but it could have been lag and you got shot several times.

Posted by JP_Russell

@Pie said:

@Spoonman671 said:
@JP_Russell said:

@Spoonman671 said:

I think Bad Company 2 had the same system, but for whatever reason (75 tickets vs 100 in BF3?) it didn't bother me as much as it has in this beta.

Attackers started out with 100 tickets in BC2, but they only got up to an additional 50 tickets with each set of M-COM's they took out.

Really? Maybe during one of the BC2 betas they would completely restock the tickets. Or I could just be confused.
Maybe he's talking about the PC version (makes sense to give them 100 tickets due to increased player counts) because as I know it in BC2 you start with 75 tickets and every set of M-Coms you blow up completely restock that

Oh, I see. I was not aware of that difference between the PC and console versions.

Edited by Seppli

@AhmadMetallic:

I just don't trust others to do the right thing. For example, in my comparatively limited BF2-playtime, I've not once had a positive experience with a good Commander. It just never did impact my gameplay. I hated the squadleader spawn though. Seldomly enough did I encounter decent squadplay on pub servers. Anyways - I make my own tactical decision. I am not a follower, so a hardcoded hierarchy is out of the question for me (I can live with it, by ignoring it - just like 90% of the community will). I can play with dominant high skilled players, no problem. If they've got the skills and the attitude to back it up, following comes naturally. Don't need any in-game tools for that. The chemistry is there or it's not.

I am a brute force frontline infantry player with a seasoning of ninja attitude. I am much more tactical playing vehicles. Always at the frontline and pushing, trying not to overstep what the asset can take. Going frequently flawless in both choppers and tanks whilst being a linchpin in the overall team strategy. It's a fine line between between being careful and cocky that makes a vehicle ace. In BF:BC 1 & 2 and Vietnam I was that. Looking forward to see what I can do in BF3. I'd say my strongest BF skill is situational awareness with a high grade in 'Where is Waldo'-spotting ability too.

Posted by spartanlolz92

they didnt take away bombs for jets its just an unlock. which is brilliant because to unlock it you have to be compentent in the jet. and im not going to complain about the stinger until i see how they work myself. because my god it was way to hard to kill aircraft in bf2. hopefully its balanced if its not then complain on the forums till they change it.

Posted by Seppli

@JP_Russell said:

@Pie said:

@Spoonman671 said:
@JP_Russell said:

@Spoonman671 said:

I think Bad Company 2 had the same system, but for whatever reason (75 tickets vs 100 in BF3?) it didn't bother me as much as it has in this beta.

Attackers started out with 100 tickets in BC2, but they only got up to an additional 50 tickets with each set of M-COM's they took out.

Really? Maybe during one of the BC2 betas they would completely restock the tickets. Or I could just be confused.
Maybe he's talking about the PC version (makes sense to give them 100 tickets due to increased player counts) because as I know it in BC2 you start with 75 tickets and every set of M-Coms you blow up completely restock that

Oh, I see. I was not aware of that difference between the PC and console versions.

BF:BC 1 did start-off with a 100 ticket pool and credited +50 for every won maptier to a maximum of 100 tickets.

From where I'm sitting BF:BC 1 was the best-designed Battlefield game, when it comes to maps and modes. It's just way more bare options-wise and a little clumsy in the infantry department.

Hope they'll go back to not refilling the whole ticket pool, that gave the whole Rush struggle more persistence and cohesion.

Posted by Infininja

Fix squads, some aspects of the netcode, and semi-auto snipers and I'll pretty much be happy.

Two Englishy things: Why are you capitalizing beta and why does the Operation Métro page spell métro wrong?

Posted by Sin4profit

The hit registration thing in that video is kind of a crock, i've seen dead bodies in the kill cam that said 100% on health so it doesnt mean they didn't take the damage, just means it didn't register on the kill cam.

As far as the "shoot through cover" i assume that's just the client side hit detection.

Posted by Skytylz

I tried to shootout some of the lights in the subway, i couldn't break them.

Posted by MooseyMcMan

Yup.

Moderator Online
Posted by RandomInternetUser

After playing now that they say the high damage bug is fixed - the damage actually feels fucking great. Whatever they did it worked for me. You don't seem to ever get insta-killed when moving anymore, I am enjoying the hell out of this. Now if they could just get rid of the fucking bug that keeps DCing me from servers and making me lose the XP I got in those matches...

Posted by Pinworm45

The squad thing just makes no sense. It's just so baffling and stupid that I can't believe it's true, even when it's been confirmed by dice. It will be changed. It just makes no fucking sense.

Great game though, Caspian is simply amazing.

Edited by Sooty

@zombie2011 said:

This game is messed up, and this isn't even a beta the game is out in couple weeks.

It's actually a month or so old build of a game that isn't out yet.

So no it's a beta.

and a game can be two weeks from release and be classed as a beta; it's called server testing.

Edited by DonPixel

It takes some time to get used to it, but for once I'm loving it just as it is. I like the direction DICE is taking that might be good or bad depending on your expectations and taste, I like evolution.

Posted by hoossy

@AhmadMetallic:

I appreciate this post.

Even though I'm not dealing with the battlelog stuff (I'm stuck on the 360), the gun play is the most glaring annoyance for me, but I'm happy to see that those are in fact bugs that will hopefully be ironed out by release.

I just need me some conquest because this rush stuff is not my cup of tea!

Edited by Pinworm45

@hoossy said:

@AhmadMetallic:

I appreciate this post.

Even though I'm not dealing with the battlelog stuff (I'm stuck on the 360), the gun play is the most glaring annoyance for me, but I'm happy to see that those are in fact bugs that will hopefully be ironed out by release.

I just need me some conquest because this rush stuff is not my cup of tea!

Speaking as someone who played on Caspian Border,

Metro Rush is the Canadian Army, Conquest with vehicles is the American army.

Honestly, anyone who has doubts and didn't play on Caspian, rest easy.

Except about the squad thing. That still makes no sense.

Posted by hoossy

@Pinworm45 said:

@hoossy said:

@AhmadMetallic:

I appreciate this post.

Even though I'm not dealing with the battlelog stuff (I'm stuck on the 360), the gun play is the most glaring annoyance for me, but I'm happy to see that those are in fact bugs that will hopefully be ironed out by release.

I just need me some conquest because this rush stuff is not my cup of tea!

Speaking as someone who played on Caspian Border,

Metro Rush is the Canadian Army, Conquest with vehicles is the American army.

Honestly, anyone who has doubts and didn't play on Caspian, rest easy.

Except about the squad thing. That still makes no sense.

sooo.... conquest is an army that spends far too much money on pointless wars based on lies and the search for oil? huh... didn't think I was into that sorta thing....

seriously though, I'm glad to hear it, even though I'll be playing on the much smaller 24 person servers

Posted by clstirens

@hoossy said:

@Pinworm45 said:

@hoossy said:

@AhmadMetallic:

I appreciate this post.

Even though I'm not dealing with the battlelog stuff (I'm stuck on the 360), the gun play is the most glaring annoyance for me, but I'm happy to see that those are in fact bugs that will hopefully be ironed out by release.

I just need me some conquest because this rush stuff is not my cup of tea!

Speaking as someone who played on Caspian Border,

Metro Rush is the Canadian Army, Conquest with vehicles is the American army.

Honestly, anyone who has doubts and didn't play on Caspian, rest easy.

Except about the squad thing. That still makes no sense.

sooo.... conquest is an army that spends far too much money on pointless wars based on lies and the search for oil? huh... didn't think I was into that sorta thing....

seriously though, I'm glad to hear it, even though I'll be playing on the much smaller 24 person servers

Considering the stupidly crazy style of warfare typical of a battlefield conquest map, yeah I'd say that's actually fairly accurate! (TONS of jets, and helos, and ammunitions... all to take this tower?)

Edited by AhmadMetallic
@Azquelt said:
This game is going to primarily be played by two groups of people: those playing with friends in their own squad, and those playing with strangers. For the first group, the squad leadership is irrelevant since they'll be chatting to each other over voice chat and will direct themselves that way. For those playing with strangers, the less you have to rely on the squad leader to do their job, the better. I don't want my game ruined by having an idiot as squad leader who spends more time dead than he does alive. Allowing spawning on any squad member keeps the game playable when there are a couple of idiots in the positions of command.

The only other alternative would be to take a MAG-style approach where you have to have a certain amount of experience before you can be a squad/platoon/battle leader and then also have to opt-in as a potential leader in each game, ensuring you don't get apathetic squad leaders who just want to dash madly at the enemy.

This theoretical thinking just doesn't make sense and is not practical. When I play with my friends, I'm always the squad leader setting waypoints for us to know where we want to go so we can play _together_ and they actually like the leadership. Same when I play BF2 with the GB guys. Same when I play with strangers, there's usually a leader setting a goal for the squad to know where to go.
If you don't want to use it, no problem. But there's no reason it shouldn't be implemented for those who might use it. The implementation of it is the first step towards teaching the inexperienced stranger to become an experienced game mate.
 

Although K/D now gets a mention on the scoreboard, overall score is what matters and teamwork is evidenced in the difference between them. When I go 1/9 and come second on the team, it's bloody obvious to anyone that my points came from healing, revives, suppression, assists, spotting and taking objectives. While having a "team action" column sounds positive, the difference between making an attack order(?), laying down suppressing fire (50), spotting an enemy (20), reviving a friendly (100) and having an squad member spawn on you (10) is so great that it would render the final number either meaningless or identical to your point score.

I know this, but most people do not care for math, not to mention that the concentration on the game makes them notice the obvious things more, which is why you see people praising each other for their Ks and Ds rather than teamwork points. No one ever goes "Hey, your score is much higher than just kills so good serving your team", but they go "ooh, 30-10, nice!". Adding a teamwork column makes players notice that teamwork exists and that it has its own appreciation on the scoreboard.
 

Battlelog is currently buggy and certain things only seem to work intermittently. There are some inherent problems, the web wasn't designed for real-time event notifications and I do wonder if party join will ever be completely reliable, but if it worked reliably and as intended, I think it would be acceptable. It's the first of it's kind (some hope it will also be the last) and it's definitely still teething but I'm still hopeful that they'll progressively address the issues it has, though I'm pretty certain it won't be anywhere near perfect on release.

Like I said, here's hoping Battlelog becomes solid and efficient enough that half my clicking doesn't go to waste, but I highly doubt it.
 

 
@spartanlolz92 said:

they didnt take away bombs for jets its just an unlock. which is brilliant because to unlock it you have to be compentent in the jet.

Pretty sure dummy bombs are gone
 
 

  @Infininja said:

Two Englishy things: Why are you capitalizing beta and why does the Operation Métro page spell métro wrong?

1- It feels cool    2-who cares about that french smudge on the E? lol.
Posted by mfpantst
@AhmadMetallic: So on further reflection I do think there is something to their scoring system vs prominently showing the K/D ratio.  In the stats page they breakout score between 'score' (which I think is the doing action points) and 'reward score' (which I feel like their 'ribbons' reward you for more team actions than anything).  Maybe to someone who just logs into the game a couple of times and doesn't really level up this might be a thing- but on the long run I find myself concerned with points scores and overall performance- not just K/D ratio.  
 
Also, I think with time the game's reward system will trump the k/d being displayed on the scoreboard.  Players who aren't very team friendly but just want a high K/D ratio might not level up as fast and not get better equipment as quickly which could disadvantage them, which I think will contrast to players who follow a more rounded approach and get more 'points' earlier, leveling up and getting better equip sooner.  That being said, for my playstyle, in the BETA progression I've gone through 4-5 ranks plus a few of my class' ranks without changing my kit for a while now.  The gun specific unlocks sorta left me feeling locked in to my main weapon, plus once the equipment that worked best for me came out early.  They could look to fix that, I guess.  
 
Another note- the top 'scoring' player on each team is highlighted in white, which pretty starkly sets out that K/D is not the end all be all in the game.  At least for me it does.
Edited by DonPixel

@zombie2011 said:

This game is messed up, and this isn't even a beta the game is out in couple weeks.

Black ops was unplayable for both PS3 and PC for about 6 months, that is quite lame if you about it (they been using the same engine with small tweaks for what 6 CODs by now?) and they still don't manage to get a clean launch? Hurra!

Anyway I'm whiling to wait a couple of months of fixing DICE it's good at supporting their games.

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