Tom Clancy's Splinter Cell is my all-time favorite gaming series. I own the first two games on PC, and Chaos Theory, Double Agent, and Conviction on the X-Box 360. I personally love both Splinter Cell, and Chaos Theory the most out of all the games in the series.

The only game I don't like in the series is Double Agent. It' still a stealth game, but I found it to be way too hard, and I am a gamer of easy-to-medium experience. Conviction was a radical change of pace for the series, but I loved it, and I loved the ability to mark and execute the mercenaries you fought in the game. Splinter Cell: Blacklist looks to be an evolution of what was shown in Conviction, and I believe the developers at E3 were showing what it's like if you master Sam's abilities, which is why they did an action-oriented demo.

Regardless, @Angre_Leperkan439, I understand you're unhappy with the direction that Ubi Soft is taking with the Splinter Cell series, but I hope you can adapt to it. I know I did when I played Conviction, and I'm really looking forward to Blacklist. The only thing I'm not happy about is that Michael Ironside is no longer going to play Sam Fisher.

@JJRage said:

y paced stealth action that is sure to be present in the game as well. E3 isn't for fans, after all. It is first and foremost a show for buyers and investors, and sadly, 30 minutes of studying guard patterns and using your wits to avoid being spotted probably doesn't sell to well on the E3 stage.

This is why we can't have good E3 demos.

@JJRage said:

As far as Michael Ironside goes, there were reports Ubisoft was trying to cut ties with him going back as far as Double Agent. Every thing I've ever read or heard suggests that he's difficult to work with and not worth the price tag, and his voice work in Conviction was shoddy at best. I'm sure part of me will miss his presence, but I play Splinter Cell games for the gameplay, not the voice work. I'll get over it.

They got rid of Michael Ironside so they could take a page from Uncharted with with integrated motion capture acting and Ironside seems to be fully on board with that decision:

@Casey25 said:

I respect your opinion.

But I felt quite the opposite.

I've played all the splinter cells. The first, Pandora Tomorrow, Chaos Theory, Double Agent, Conviction. I didnt play the original xbox version of double agent though. Anyway, I've pretty much played them all.

Below is my verbose response/rant that probably isnt worth reading. TLDR is below the spoiler.

SPOILER WARNING: Click here to reveal hidden content.

To me, Splinter Cell games historically have had slow, shallow, and all around dull storylines. The main attraction was Sam Fisher who is a kinda-realistic version of solid snake or any other super-military-spy-type-dude that goes on insane covert missions for the government and is an all around badass. In terms of gameplay, they revolved around completing missions that could last an hour and a half or more. Parts of levels required trial and error, learning what gadgets might work where, and getting to grips with the clumsy interaction system and controls. You had to slow down, take your time, and make a plan almost every moment in those games, often times because the controls and ui dont allow for any sort of fluidity or natural movement. A lot of people seem to forget how touchy it could be simply to choose one of 3 options when you're approaching a door or like trying to grab an enemy and having to be directly behind them while they're walking and not having the grab option appear but DONT GET TOOO CLOSE or they'll detect you.

I see SCV or Conviction as a sort of reboot and simultaneously a conclusion of the old Sam Fisher's style and story, respectively. Ubisoft had experimented with more fluid and actiony controls with SC Chaos Theory and DA's spies vs mercs mode, where spies had a much easier time moving around and getting stuff done compared to the Single Player's "Okay, lets do this simple contextual action. K now activate it, wait, i moved too far to the right so i cant do this action. Wait,i just did something else, wtf, this is taking forever."

I like SCV and I like the look of Blacklist because, like how i remember ubi's PR talk went, it makes you feel like Sam is a Predator and not a clumsy, inept meter-maniac who cant handle himself when shit just needs to die. It did stealth combat and stealth tactics well enough and it was uncommon that i felt like i didnt have control. And it had excuses for sam to be more aggressive-stealth than passive-stealth because Sam wasn't just Fifth Freedom status, he was Fifth Freedom AND a furious renegade trying to kill his way to finding his daughter. The Coop in Conviction was REALLY GOOD too but i imagine people who didnt have friends to play coop wouldn't know.

To me, Blacklist looks like the game Ubisoft WANTED Conviction to be, but couldn't quite make it to be. It looks extremely fluid with gorgeous (gruesome) animations and a stronger cinematic intensity. I expect it to play much like Conviction while still capturing a taste of the multitudinous paths players can take in certain parts of the missions.

I'm not going to address every single point where i disagree with you because this is already too long and because opinions, yo. I personally agree with the direction Ubi has taken SC and the balance between fluidity and diversity.

Splinter Cell: Blacklist is looking great. And i'm very happy, because they took a game I've enjoyed for what it's worth since original xbox times, rebooted it with SC Conviction, and refined that to make a new, sexy looking, contemporary product. And finally, they'll likely gain many new fans, because what they showed today looked quite compelling. (seewutididthar?)

Man, if only they made the old school splinter cells in HD so people could go revisit those fond memori-OH WAIT THEY DID IT'S CALLED THE SPLINTER CELL HD COLLECTION GO PLAY IT NOW!

Ahem, so yeah this e3 demo of SCB got me super stoked for more details. I'll definitely be throwing my money at that. They also said Coop was back and bigger, so that'll be badass. AND...Spies vc Mercs is back! OMG!?!?!

I am looking forward to this game, if you couldn't tell.

EXACTLY how I feel about the series. I loved the original Splinter Cell games from last gen. I played all three start to finish multiple times. When the Chaos Theory demo was first released on an OXM disc, I played that one level probably 40 times just learning every minute detail, every possible way to pass it.

Double Agent was disappointing, but you could see the direction they wanted to go in. Conviction built on a few of those ideas, and I welcomed the change of pace.

I'm eager to see more of Blacklist. One of the dudes from Ubisoft stated during the Gamespot stage demo that they built the game to accommodate different play styles, which says to me that you could very easily play the level we've seen without nearly as much bloodshed and gunfire. Personally, I welcome the challenge of trying to stay invisible in broad daylight, rather than crawling around a darkened compound shooting out every light source.

Much like Hitman Absolution, I can almost guarantee that Ubisoft decided to show the "sizzle" demo for Blacklist, rather than the methodically paced stealth action that is sure to be present in the game as well. E3 isn't for fans, after all. It is first and foremost a show for buyers and investors, and sadly, 30 minutes of studying guard patterns and using your wits to avoid being spotted probably doesn't sell to well on the E3 stage.

As far as Michael Ironside goes, there were reports Ubisoft was trying to cut ties with him going back as far as Double Agent. Every thing I've ever read or heard suggests that he's difficult to work with and not worth the price tag, and his voice work in Conviction was shoddy at best. I'm sure part of me will miss his presence, but I play Splinter Cell games for the gameplay, not the voice work. I'll get over it.

I know people want to point at COD.. but I think it was MGS4 that made Splinter Cell step its game up. MGS was a steath/action shooter that took place in broad fucking day. You had tools to get past everyone, but you can still kill people and get by, which to me is what ended up making that game better, It was stealthy, but you were quicker, even as an old man, you can still wipe out an entire unit piece by piece.

And I think Conviction took that ball and ran with it. It made Sam more capable, if he got caught it wasn't"welp, I got caught, let's play that over' It was more, I fucked hat up, now I have to shoot my way out of this (and you couldn't take that much damage before dying) so there was still a risk reward, but you weren't completely fucked if guards got alerted. Also, it just felt in tone with the story, Sam was pissed and wanted answer and fuck EVERYONE who can't give him answers. For someone who was meh on the original SC games (I was more into MGS) to me Convictionhad a good pace and a good tone for this type of game. I want to see more of Blacklist before making judgement. At the end of the day it was an E3 demo and we all know those are crafted to created Maximum Hype and for the game that came after Halo 4, it needed to leave an impression.

@JackOhara said:

@Napalm said:

@JackOhara said:

@Napalm said:

This is literally the third fucking topic about Blacklisted with some fanboy crying his damn eyes out.

Thanks for your highly relevant and interesting comments on the subject matter

And you think numerous topics complaining about gameplay implications of an E3 vertical slice is really worth it? It's stupid. Stop whining.

Yea, people discussing what they think about something in an adult manner is really stupid. We're not trying to articulate our individual valid concerns with the direction the series is taking, we're just whining. Stop typing please.

It's really funny reading those comments. It shows how different the audience who favors conviction and blacklist are. They are guys who prefer speed and action rather then patience and tension. I know i'm imply this to those that are not being mean too and apologize for that. It good that you are being respectable. It is something I have noticed though. The fan-base has been completely divided into too separate and seemingly incompatible groups. To me, it feels like an invasive species that has stole one's home. Splinter cell isn't a series that I like anymore.

@CornBREDX said:

You're thinking about this too hard. I said the same thing to Jace earlier- they're no longer aimed at us. There is nothing you can do about it other then not play it.

I played all the originals too, and I rented Conviction, hated it, returned it. It's not for me, and it's clearly not being made for me. Just have to move on.

I am not surprised Michael Ironside isn't in the game, he almost wasn't in the last one (or something... his acting seemed like he didn't want to be). I agree they should've gone a different route, but its not my game to make. I just wont be buying it. My problem is solved- no need to get mad.

Things change, life goes on, other games are made.

Edit: Also, you don't remember the first Splinter Cell to well. It had a heavy reliance on action sequences. The stealth focus was more prevalent in PT and CT (little bit in Double Agent too, but meh that game has other problems)

This is kinda how you have to be in this day and age with regards to video game sequels. They are reviving a lot of beloved games and simply evolving ones that never went away, and for the most part they aren't aimed at original fans anymore. I am actually all for this new direction for the Splinter Cell series because I could never make it through the first level of any of the other ones. It sucks that this game isn't what you want it to be but this is something that everyone goes through with their entertainment at some point.

Also Michael Ironside sounded drunk as shit in Conviction constantly so even though I think he is a great voice actor I think it might be a good idea they changed voice actors.

@Napalm: Haha, what a joke. You think that people having criticism of the game is equivalent to "crying their eyes out"?

If that's the case, I hope you realize you're a massive hypocrite.

@Napalm said:

@JackOhara said:

@Napalm said:

This is literally the third fucking topic about Blacklisted with some fanboy crying his damn eyes out.

Thanks for your highly relevant and interesting comments on the subject matter

And you think numerous topics complaining about gameplay implications of an E3 vertical slice is really worth it? It's stupid. Stop whining.

Yea, people discussing what they think about something in an adult manner is really stupid. We're not trying to articulate our individual valid concerns with the direction the series is taking, we're just whining. Stop typing please.

Could've stopped at chaos theory, i didn't particularly care for double agent. The gameplay was fine in DA but it was just those long ass annoying bits in the terrorist base between the levels that was a pain in the fucking ass. They were so tedious and dull. Hmmm... Conviction really bored me too, I did enjoy it a little but it became so streamlined it felt dumbed down and like I was barely playing it. It was almost like playing a 3d sonic game; pretty much played itself. Well that's a complete exaggeration, especially since I didn't try the higher difficulties. I just didn't really like the feel of it. I loved how they wrapped up the story though that was great. They're just milking it too much now. Let Splinter Cell go and move on to something new, stop recycling cliches!

@Angre_Leperkan439

To be honest, I liked Conviction. I aslo played and love Splinter Cell, back in the days where it was considered a '' MGS '' contestant and was also applauded for inventing the ''over-the-shouler'' shooting mechanic perfected by RE:4. I remember purchasing Pandora Tomorrow, beating it within three days and being majorly disappointed by its stupidly brief campaign. I remember liking Sam's new suits and half-split jump. I remember liking the MP for it, and playing Merc vs Spies with my friend all the time. As for Chaos Theory, it was really cool. Then came along Double Agent, which I thought was brilliant at first ( first few levels at least ) and then quickly turned into something weird.

And then, Conviction. I must say, I liked the '' 24 '' vibe to it, but mostly a more open-ended nature on how to proceed in the levels. I could now bash open doors, using and unsilenced pistol and headshot three guys and not being discovered, because loud noise covered my ass anyways. I also liked the credible level design and its settings. I highly disliked the '' flashback '' mission though.

As for Blaclist, i'm on the fence. They obviously shown an action level and since they've brought Sam back in his suit, they're obviously going to add a lot of night-time action and, who knows, maybe the stealth element will still be as strong as its action counterpart. I doubt they'd put him in a stealth suit otherwise. Verdict? Wait and see.

@Napalm said:

@Angre_Leperkan439 said:

@Napalm: Nobody's making you be here to read this. Wanna defend the game's gameplay? Feel free to start your own post.

Alright, check this out: YO THAT SHIT LOOKS FUCKING AWESOME.

Boom.

@Napalm: /thread

@Angre_Leperkan439 said:

@Napalm: Nobody's making you be here to read this. Wanna defend the game's gameplay? Feel free to start your own post.

Alright, check this out: YO THAT SHIT LOOKS FUCKING AWESOME.

Boom.

@Napalm: Nobody's making you be here to read this. Wanna defend the game's gameplay? Feel free to start your own post.

@JackOhara said:

@Napalm said:

This is literally the third fucking topic about Blacklisted with some fanboy crying his damn eyes out.

Thanks for your highly relevant and interesting comments on the subject matter

And you think numerous topics complaining about gameplay implications of an E3 vertical slice is really worth it? It's stupid. Stop whining.

@Napalm said:

This is literally the third fucking topic about Blacklisted with some fanboy crying his damn eyes out.

Thanks for your highly relevant and interesting comments on the subject matter

@AlexanderSheen said:

This is like the third thread about Blacklist being bad.

Technically, it's a blog post.

Oh and@Napalm I think you're probably the third or fourth (or maybe even fifth) person to point that out.

@JackOhara: I see your point about tension. The games certainly express different tones in the gameplay. A thought out plan in progress and knowing one loud footstep could give you away in early SC games is exciting. Conviction still has its moments, they're just slightly different in tone i'd say. You still need to come up with a plan to deal with a scenario (shoot that explodey thing, then jump on that guy to get the execute ability, then pop the rest of the guys you marked earlier), but it's more of an intense rush of 5 seconds of action rather than 30 seconds of carefully dodging cameras and using your gadget just right. There are interrogations in both games, but Conviction holds them more central to the story i guess and they're more aggressive and violent compared to Sam's older "tell me what i need to know and i might not kill you, punk" interrogations.

And yeah it's strange how the biggest impacts these demos had are often the quietest.

I honestly didn't like the interrogations. They were completely scripted; it was either you smash their face in on the sink, or you kick them through a door. Oh wait, you end up doing everything every time no matter what. The only choice you had in the matter was the order in which you proceeded to mess that dude up.

This is literally the third fucking topic about Blacklisted with some fanboy crying his damn eyes out.

You can only make so many possible combinations of doors corridors and rooms, horizontal and vertical pipes and ladders before it all becomes rote unless you change something else. They chose to change up the whole formula instead of putting out some copy and pasted game with slightly improved graphics. They are going to do whatever they want to Splinter Cell games and whatever they do to them, whether you like them or not you can always go back to the first three.

Also, I have a sinking suspicion that Ironside will still be in the game somehow and they are saving it for a surprise. Based on the demo, it looks like it could be a flashback sort of thing. Or I'm totally off base and that just is the game. Either way, I'll play it...and if Conviction plays like that I should try that one too.

I have bought and finished every Splinter Cell (on its release) and I LOVE every single one of them, Conviction included. But for me the experience is more about story and character than gameplay. I must admit though, the loss of Ironside is seriously making me dislike the look of Blacklist. and is it just me? or does Sam look younger in Blacklist than he did in Conviction

This is like the third thread about Blacklist being bad.

Why are people bitching about losing Ironside? He mumbled and sounded drunk through the whole last game.

@TonicBH said:

I played Chaos Theory. I hated its trial-and-error gameplay, as well as its clunky control and gunplay. Conviction streamlined it for the best. Blacklist seems to be a successor to that formula, and that's okay.

I honestly don't see the "Third person COD" argument. You still have to sneak, you're just given more options. Nothing sucked than getting forced into a frustrating gunfight if you got spotted, at least in Conviction I could save my ass with a simple melee takedown and not get attention. If anything I'd love to see the older SC games with the mechanics of Conviction/Blacklist. I bet that'd make the games 10 times more enjoyable.

Ten times more enjoyable by who? People who want action games or people who want stealth games? You had a gun in Chaos Theory but it's not like you ever needed to use it. You had many ways of knocking dudes out in the shadows (hand to hand, sticky shocker, sticky cam, etc.) so the gun became superfluous, other than being used to launch gadgets.

I'm going to keep an open mind on it, I loved most of the splinter cells, didn't care for double agent. And I liked convection overall, the coop was the main draw for me. My biggest grip is the voice change, not that it's not Ironsides but that they didn't just stick in a new main character. They keep trying to rewrite fisher, he's old, he's not, his daughter is dead, maybe not. What's funny is the combat for blacklist looks like ac3

I played Chaos Theory. I hated its trial-and-error gameplay, as well as its clunky control and gunplay. Conviction streamlined it for the best. Blacklist seems to be a successor to that formula, and that's okay.

I honestly don't see the "Third person COD" argument. You still have to sneak, you're just given more options. Nothing sucked than getting forced into a frustrating gunfight if you got spotted, at least in Conviction I could save my ass with a simple melee takedown and not get attention. If anything I'd love to see the older SC games with the mechanics of Conviction/Blacklist. I bet that'd make the games 10 times more enjoyable.

Well...You can move bodies in Black List...

I love Conviction, it was an utterly brilliant game, and I don't like this Demo. What made it great was that the gameplay suited the tone - I loved the story and thought the more action-oriented, but still stealth based gameplay was exactly what it needed for the rogue sam storyline. This demo, however, seems to be putting the new gameplay with a tone of the old games, which had stories that could not be less interesting to me. Conviction had that edge, that personal touch, Sam was a man losing it - but this is just another "save the world" mission.

I personally would, however, have liked Conviction to be a tad more viable to be played stealth-silent, but overall, it was still a brilliant game. Blacklist, from everything I've seen, does not inspire that in me.

I think that this game looks undeniably cool and I totally want to play it. I just wish they wouldn't call it Splinter Cell.

I just found out that the new Sam Fisher voice (and mo-cap actor) is Whitney from Smallville. That kind of blew my mind a bit, so I'm going to give him a pass for now. As much as I love Michael Ironside, I can understand why they wanted to get a new guy in there and, to be honest, Michael Ironside's voice is starting to get slightly too old and gravelly to be entirely comprehensible. Plus, he's still around; they seem to be consulting the hell out of him for the character and whatnot.

As for the gameplay, I'll admit that it did seem a bit action-heavy in that demo, but I'll hold my judgment until I see more than one small segment of the game. Even so, what I did see seemed a whole lot like Conviction, and I really enjoyed that game. I actually liked the more action-oriented gameplay in Conviction; I found some of the later segments of the first two Splinter Cell games (I didn't play Chaos Theory or Double Agent) to be too frustratingly trial-and-error to be entirely enjoyable. I mean, I really like all of the Splinter Cell games that I've played, but I remember also getting really frustrated by some of Pandora Tomorrow in particular, so I'm open to a push toward more action-oriented gameplay like Conviction so long as they don't eliminate the stealth aspect entirely. They just really need to strike a good balance between stealth and action. I still want to sneak around in the shadows, but I don't want to have to die or restart every single time I get spotted.

Also, please bring back the split jump. I love that thing.

@Soapy86 said:

@RedRoach said:

And it's a fucking E3 demo, they have limited time to get as many people hyped as possible, that means show a big, action packed, explosion-y sequence.

Watch Dogs didn't need to stoop to that level. The Last of Us didn't either.

Both of those are new IP's which instantly get people excited. Watch dogs was setting up a world and introducing an entirely new and unfamiliar world. I think a myhodical stealth sequence would be harder to pace and show off.

And not to mention Ubisoft made that demo before Watch Dogs was announced. They were making a demo, and action heavy sequences have done a good job of getting people excited in the past .hey wanted people to get excited, action sequence is more likely to do that.

EDIT: I just want to make my opinions clear, The Last of Us and Watch Dogs are easily the games I'm most looking forward to in the future. The Last of Us has been my most anticipated game since it's reveal. And I've played and loved every Splinter Cell games (Conviction to a lesser extent) I love slow paced stealth. Old school Tom Clancy games are some of my favourite of all time. The way those series' are going really bums me out. But I understand that those are niche games. And no matter how much you keep your budget in check, AAA games are still hugely expensive. Of fucking course publishers want to make it a safe bet every time. They're developing a game for the modern market, not the niche market. And like I said before, it's an E3 demo, remember when no one believed DA:O was a hardcore rpg because of all the Marilyn Manson trailers at E3? All I'm saying is that they're showing parts of the game that have the most broad appeal possible.

@JackOhara: I see your point about tension. The games certainly express different tones in the gameplay. A thought out plan in progress and knowing one loud footstep could give you away in early SC games is exciting. Conviction still has its moments, they're just slightly different in tone i'd say. You still need to come up with a plan to deal with a scenario (shoot that explodey thing, then jump on that guy to get the execute ability, then pop the rest of the guys you marked earlier), but it's more of an intense rush of 5 seconds of action rather than 30 seconds of carefully dodging cameras and using your gadget just right. There are interrogations in both games, but Conviction holds them more central to the story i guess and they're more aggressive and violent compared to Sam's older "tell me what i need to know and i might not kill you, punk" interrogations.

And yeah it's strange how the biggest impacts these demos had are often the quietest.

@Casey25 said:

@RedRoach: Very well said

@Soapy86 said:

@RedRoach said:

And it's a fucking E3 demo, they have limited time to get as many people hyped as possible, that means show a big, action packed, explosion-y sequence.

Watch Dogs didn't need to stoop to that level. The Last Guardian didn't either.

If i recall Watch Dogs had a dozen cars collide, a gas station explode, multiple people shot to death, and a chase scene ending with a car ramping off a rising bridge. I'd call that action packed and explosion-y myself.

RedRoach is right. Think about how many action oriented games this E3 had some sort of aircraft shot down! Resident Evil, Call of Duty,Halo 4, Star Wars 1313, EVEN BEYOND:TWO SOULS HAD AN EXPLODED CHOPPER!

Note that the most intense parts of Watch Dogs and Beyond were the parts without explosions and gunfire.

@Casey25 said:

@JackOhara said:

I respect your opinion, but I have to ask. Why do you like it when games are more 'cinematic'? We're not in a cinema watching a film, we're playing a game at home. I don't understand why developers keep trying to make games more like films. It's only getting worse.

Why shouldn't a game have strong cinematic elements? Cutscenes have always been an important part of any story based game. The demo's end cutscene looked sharp, with decent facial animations and a somewhat surprising ending.

Developers are making games more "cinematic" i think because developers have so many more resources to work with. It always bugs me when a game will have a janky ten second cutscene just to signify you made some sort of progression (like there probably is in any old 3d puzzle platformer someone might have nostalgia for). But that doesn't make the existence of a cutscene bad.

If you mean you don't like how certain developers' Calling gives them a sense of Duty to prioritize spectacle over actually doing interesting stuff then I understand what you mean. But to me there's nothing wrong with a cool looking stealth kill animation or a smooth looking vault over a car hood. I guess i just have a problem with what Ryan would call jankiness. I HATE JANKINESS!

So yeah in my case i meant to say that I like how real the animations look. A game like Splinter Cell that focuses on you controlling an individual in an action-oriented environment in third person benefits from more life-like animation. A game like Tetris doesn't. And hey, Tetris is just fine without it.

*imagines gruesome death animations of 5 rows after a line piece falls impactfully in place*

How about taking advantage of the fact that someone can actually interact with your story and use that for your story exposition? I agree, not all cutscenes are bad, if done right they can help with pacing your game if you have a lot of action. A problem I have with the modern Splinter Cell games is that your character performs way too many actions with too little button presses/skill involved, to the point the game feels like it's playing itself. In Conviction you had the ability to sprint into a room and kill four people with a single button press. This does nothing but make everything you do feel cheaper and watered down. Taking your time to take down single enemies almost feels like a waste of time. Compare this to the previous games where you had to be conscious of every move you made and the position of every enemy. Grabbing and interrogating enemies (after you pulled them back into the darkness) was incredibly visceral and exciting. This is why people like the older Splinter Cell games, the tension in some of the (granted, slower paced) situations was literally palpable.

@Casey25 said:

@RedRoach: Very well said

@Soapy86 said:

@RedRoach said:

And it's a fucking E3 demo, they have limited time to get as many people hyped as possible, that means show a big, action packed, explosion-y sequence.

Watch Dogs didn't need to stoop to that level. The Last Guardian didn't either.

If i recall Watch Dogs had a dozen cars collide, a gas station explode, multiple people shot to death, and a chase scene ending with a car ramping off a rising bridge. I'd call that action packed and explosion-y myself.

But all the action came after... what? Like ten minutes of just walking around and talking to some dude? Also, I meant The Last of Us.

@RedRoach: Maybe developers and publishers should keep their budgets in check instead of dumbing their games down to appeal to any idiot that might pick up a controller.

@RedRoach: Very well said

@Soapy86 said:

@RedRoach said:

And it's a fucking E3 demo, they have limited time to get as many people hyped as possible, that means show a big, action packed, explosion-y sequence.

Watch Dogs didn't need to stoop to that level. The Last Guardian didn't either.

If i recall Watch Dogs had a dozen cars collide, a gas station explode, multiple people shot to death, and a chase scene ending with a car ramping off a rising bridge. I'd call that action packed and explosion-y myself.

RedRoach is right. Think about how many action oriented games this E3 had some sort of aircraft shot down! Resident Evil, Call of Duty,Halo 4, Star Wars 1313, EVEN BEYOND:TWO SOULS HAD AN EXPLODED CHOPPER!

@JackOhara said:

I respect your opinion, but I have to ask. Why do you like it when games are more 'cinematic'? We're not in a cinema watching a film, we're playing a game at home. I don't understand why developers keep trying to make games more like films. It's only getting worse.

Why shouldn't a game have strong cinematic elements? Cutscenes have always been an important part of any story based game. The demo's end cutscene looked sharp, with decent facial animations and a somewhat surprising ending.

Developers are making games more "cinematic" i think because developers have so many more resources to work with. It always bugs me when a game will have a janky ten second cutscene just to signify you made some sort of progression (like there probably is in any old 3d puzzle platformer someone might have nostalgia for). But that doesn't make the existence of a cutscene bad.

If you mean you don't like how certain developers' Calling gives them a sense of Duty to prioritize spectacle over actually doing interesting stuff then I understand what you mean. But to me there's nothing wrong with a cool looking stealth kill animation or a smooth looking vault over a car hood. I guess i just have a problem with what Ryan would call jankiness. I HATE JANKINESS!

So yeah in my case i meant to say that I like how real the animations look. A game like Splinter Cell that focuses on you controlling an individual in an action-oriented environment in third person benefits from more life-like animation. A game like Tetris doesn't. And hey, Tetris is just fine without it.

*imagines gruesome death animations of 5 rows after a line piece falls impactfully in place*

@RedRoach said:

And it's a fucking E3 demo, they have limited time to get as many people hyped as possible, that means show a big, action packed, explosion-y sequence.

Watch Dogs didn't need to stoop to that level. The Last of Us didn't either.

@JackOhara said:

@Soapy86 said:

We're a dying breed OP. No one wants stealth games these days. Or survival horror. Or tactical shooters. They just want they same over the shoulder cover based shooter with different skins on top.

If the games shown at E3 this year were any indication, I'm inclined to agree. Like I said on another thread, it's funny that with all the gunshots and explosions going off in these shooters they still manage to be boring. There's almost no tension in any of the gameplay from the demo of SC shown today.

I thought I was beginning to go crazy, but I totally agree. I was sitting there watching the Medal of Honor demo and thinking, "This is just as if not more boring that Microsoft's media bullshit at their presser."

series evolve, can;t change that. It sucks but niche games like the Tom Clancy games of old just don't play in todays market. A triple "A" game is so expensive to develop publishers need to make as likely to succeed as possible. Like or not, very slow paced stealth games are done, the industry has moved on because no one liked it )in a general sense) Stealth games now like batman, AC and Hitman are faster paced, it's just the way the genre developed from feedback. People like stealth games because they make you feel so badass when it clicks, but they hated the trial and effort it took to make that click.

And it's a fucking E3 demo, they have limited time to get as many people hyped as possible, that means show a big, action packed, explosion-y sequence.

@JackOhara said:

@Soapy86 said:

We're a dying breed OP. No one wants stealth games these days. Or survival horror. Or tactical shooters. They just want they same over the shoulder cover based shooter with different skins on top.

If the games shown at E3 this year were any indication, I'm inclined to agree. Like I said on another thread, it's funny that with all the gunshots and explosions going off in these shooters they still manage to be boring. There's almost no tension in any of the gameplay from the demo of SC shown today.

Lighten up. Jesus Christ.

@Soapy86 said:

We're a dying breed OP. No one wants stealth games these days. Or survival horror. Or tactical shooters. They just want they same over the shoulder cover based shooter with different skins on top.

If the games shown at E3 this year were any indication, I'm inclined to agree. Like I said on another thread, it's funny that with all the gunshots and explosions going off in these shooters they still manage to be boring. There's almost no tension in any of the gameplay from the demo of SC shown today.

@Casey25 said:

I respect your opinion.

But I felt quite the opposite.

I've played all the splinter cells. The first, Pandora Tomorrow, Chaos Theory, Double Agent, Conviction. I didnt play the original xbox version of double agent though. Anyway, I've pretty much played them all.

Below is my verbose response/rant that probably isnt worth reading. TLDR is below the spoiler.

SPOILER WARNING: Click here to reveal hidden content.

To me, Splinter Cell games historically have had slow, shallow, and all around dull storylines. The main attraction was Sam Fisher who is a kinda-realistic version of solid snake or any other super-military-spy-type-dude that goes on insane covert missions for the government and is an all around badass. In terms of gameplay, they revolved around completing missions that could last an hour and a half or more. Parts of levels required trial and error, learning what gadgets might work where, and getting to grips with the clumsy interaction system and controls. You had to slow down, take your time, and make a plan almost every moment in those games, often times because the controls and ui dont allow for any sort of fluidity or natural movement. A lot of people seem to forget how touchy it could be simply to choose one of 3 options when you're approaching a door or like trying to grab an enemy and having to be directly behind them while they're walking and not having the grab option appear but DONT GET TOOO CLOSE or they'll detect you.

I see SCV or Conviction as a sort of reboot and simultaneously a conclusion of the old Sam Fisher's style and story, respectively. Ubisoft had experimented with more fluid and actiony controls with SC Chaos Theory and DA's spies vs mercs mode, where spies had a much easier time moving around and getting stuff done compared to the Single Player's "Okay, lets do this simple contextual action. K now activate it, wait, i moved too far to the right so i cant do this action. Wait,i just did something else, wtf, this is taking forever."

I like SCV and I like the look of Blacklist because, like how i remember ubi's PR talk went, it makes you feel like Sam is a Predator and not a clumsy, inept meter-maniac who cant handle himself when shit just needs to die. It did stealth combat and stealth tactics well enough and it was uncommon that i felt like i didnt have control. And it had excuses for sam to be more aggressive-stealth than passive-stealth because Sam wasn't just Fifth Freedom status, he was Fifth Freedom AND a furious renegade trying to kill his way to finding his daughter. The Coop in Conviction was REALLY GOOD too but i imagine people who didnt have friends to play coop wouldn't know.

To me, Blacklist looks like the game Ubisoft WANTED Conviction to be, but couldn't quite make it to be. It looks extremely fluid with gorgeous (gruesome) animations and a stronger cinematic intensity. I expect it to play much like Conviction while still capturing a taste of the multitudinous paths players can take in certain parts of the missions.

I'm not going to address every single point where i disagree with you because this is already too long and because opinions, yo. I personally agree with the direction Ubi has taken SC and the balance between fluidity and diversity.

Splinter Cell: Blacklist is looking great. And i'm very happy, because they took a game I've enjoyed for what it's worth since original xbox times, rebooted it with SC Conviction, and refined that to make a new, sexy looking, contemporary product. And finally, they'll likely gain many new fans, because what they showed today looked quite compelling. (seewutididthar?)

Man, if only they made the old school splinter cells in HD so people could go revisit those fond memori-OH WAIT THEY DID IT'S CALLED THE SPLINTER CELL HD COLLECTION GO PLAY IT NOW!

Ahem, so yeah this e3 demo of SCB got me super stoked for more details. I'll definitely be throwing my money at that. They also said Coop was back and bigger, so that'll be badass. AND...Spies vc Mercs is back! OMG!?!?!

I am looking forward to this game, if you couldn't tell.

I respect your opinion, but I have to ask. Why do you like it when games are more 'cinematic'? We're not in a cinema watching a film, we're playing a game at home. I don't understand why developers keep trying to make games more like films. It's only getting worse.

We're a dying breed OP. No one wants stealth games these days. Or survival horror. Or tactical shooters. They just want they same over the shoulder cover based shooter with different skins on top.

Oh, well. This game isn't going to cause all of our copies of Chaos Theory to burst into flames. We'll still have that amazing game to play again and again and again.

I respect your opinion.

But I felt quite the opposite.

I've played all the splinter cells. The first, Pandora Tomorrow, Chaos Theory, Double Agent, Conviction. I didnt play the original xbox version of double agent though. Anyway, I've pretty much played them all.

Below is my verbose response/rant that probably isnt worth reading. TLDR is below the spoiler.

Splinter Cell: Blacklist is looking great. And i'm very happy, because they took a game I've enjoyed for what it's worth since original xbox times, rebooted it with SC Conviction, and refined that to make a new, sexy looking, contemporary product. And finally, they'll likely gain many new fans, because what they showed today looked quite compelling. (seewutididthar?)

Man, if only they made the old school splinter cells in HD so people could go revisit those fond memori-OH WAIT THEY DID IT'S CALLED THE SPLINTER CELL HD COLLECTION GO PLAY IT NOW!

Ahem, so yeah this e3 demo of SCB got me super stoked for more details. I'll definitely be throwing my money at that. They also said Coop was back and bigger, so that'll be badass. AND...Spies vc Mercs is back! OMG!?!?!

I am looking forward to this game, if you couldn't tell.

@CornBREDX: I know, Splinter Cell isn't the only thing that I've seen destroyed. I feel the same about Medal of Honor, Rainbow 6, Ghost Recon, Battlefield 3 (only partially) and the list goes on (I want SWAT 5 more than anything.)

But for me, Splinter Cell hit a little harder because I liked it so much. Chaos Theory is responsible for some of the best single/multiplayer experiences I've had in gaming. Ubisoft knew they were losing their original fan base with Conviction, and they went ahead with it. With Blacklist, they could've gone back to what made the series great. Instead, they chose to go even further into action.

I don't think I can change anything, but this is the community where I express my feelings on games, and I did so. You and I are in the same boat on this bud.

@Jace said:

@CornBREDX: I understand that they're trying to sell the game to more people. But there are ways to innovate and broaden your audience. See: AC3, Bioshock Infinite, Hitman: Absolution, Far Cry 3, etc.

I'm not a 100% sure that Hitman Absolution is innovation. The more linear design of levels, absence of Jasper Kyd and Baetson isn't filling me with confidence, guess I'll just have to play it and see. Anyway, more on topic, the creation of a good sequel requires one thing. Balance. Between the new and old, and it doesn't require simplification or making a game easier, it requires innovation while still staying true to the core gameplay mechanics.

I've played almost all Splinter Cell games, and they were great, but tbh Hitman was always my go-to stealth game, and the new one has me worried. In any case, there are quite a few stealth games and franchises out there, it's sad when a franchise you love changes beyond recognition. But you'll always have the older games of the series, as well as other stealth games.

In the end, there's nothing you can do to change it or influence it, so being sad or frustrated doesn't really help....and that argument never really worked for me.

@Jace said:

@CornBREDX: I understand that they're trying to sell the game to more people. But there are ways to innovate and broaden your audience. See: AC3, Bioshock Infinite, Hitman: Absolution, Far Cry 3, etc.

Instead, Ubi chose to just make a 3rd person CoD and call it a day.

I know man, and it sucks. Sometimes you can't win. You still have to know when to let it go. Conviction was what proved to me this was the direction they we're going in. I rented it because I wasn't sure based on everything around it (hype, videos, and whatnot). I played it, and it just wasn't Splinter Cell. You kind of realize at that point, or at some point, that it won't always be. So, vote with your wallet. Just don't buy it. This is the direction they're going in.

I'm not saying you don't have the right to be upset, but at some point you have no control.

Also you named several games with better developers then the guys who have been tasked with making modern day Splinter Cell. Just putting that out there =)

This will always be Splinter Cell to me. Fuck Conviction and Blacklist.