ArtisanBreads's forum posts

#1 Edited by ArtisanBreads (3861 posts) -

@amyggen: I'm not sure where the sales were but I think the more that I look at this thread you're right about public perception. I remember being more in the minority when it came out, wondering how people were even invested in anything the game did because of how poor the story was all around right from the start. When I read reviews I wanted to like it too. I love how it branches and all.

@hatking: Destiny was a really positive sign. I think it's lessons learned from Diablo III, Sim City, and BF 4 launches. Lessons finally learned. As I said it's a tough problem to fix given reviews usefulness and how games progress. Frankly I just don't care much about reviews anymore and pay attention to a wide variety of sources. Those Heavy Rain reviews are a reminder I'm on the right track. I think it is inevitable for games criticism to adapt to become more like the criticism of film or literature. Deeper with a longer tail. It's not like the old days where the games media are the gatekeeper of all the info at release. They were playing Destiny basically when we were and we could see shared footage from the public if we wanted.

#2 Edited by ArtisanBreads (3861 posts) -

@gike987: Well I guess I didn't know the full extent. Proves the point further. Thanks for the info.

And yeah I like Divinity but the UI is not a strong point. But personally I really have found UI so rarely good among RPGs, even ones I love. I have low expectations. I go in with a blank slate and expect to adapt.

#3 Edited by ArtisanBreads (3861 posts) -

@pr1mus: Obviously this game has it's history but maybe my expectations are just off base with FF dev cycles. I really have fallen off being a FF fan for years now but Versus has always been on my radar.

I was expecting more 80% or so.

#4 Edited by ArtisanBreads (3861 posts) -

@pr1mus: well holy crap. 50 to 60 percent sounds like it is certainly way off. That's rather insane. A man who directed this project and only has it to that point should certainly step aside by this point.

This is without knowing what that percentage means. Who knows. But if we are talking a late 2016 to 2017 game that's pretty crazy.

#5 Edited by ArtisanBreads (3861 posts) -

@lackingsaint said:

Loved Heavy Rain. I think it sucks the extent that people will completely remove all sense of context to the game's release; I hear people say "Yeah Heavy Rain sucked... LA Noire and The Walking Dead Game did it way better" and it's like of course they did, they came out several years later when that style of game was becoming more popular. If you can appreciate a game that's deeply flawed but tries something new, Heavy Rain is a great experience. If you have the expectation that a studio is going to go out on a limb with an unsupported genre and get it completely right, not so much.

This doesn't fly at all for me because it's not that Heavy Rain's struggling in its form. It's gameplay, mechanics, and graphics are really fine. The story itself just sucked. LA Noire and Walking Dead didn't do everything better gameplay wise, as interactive pieces of fiction, they just had better stories with better acting.

If you like the story, so be it. But your argument doesn't make sense with a lot of other people's complaint that the story is bad. That isn't something that required iteration to achieve.

Of course the form affects the story. Which for me is funny because I actually think the form of Heavy Rain (and it's branching) is more interesting than the form of LA Noire or Walking Dead. It's just the story at the core is so poor that none of that makes the difference it should.

#6 Edited by ArtisanBreads (3861 posts) -

Only game that comes to mind: Spaceship Warlock. It was a Mac adventure game that was one of the very first games with voice and it's level of multimedia production (1991). Ported to PC years later but by then it's production style was common place.

I have a very soft spot for this game though. So much nostalgia.

#7 Edited by ArtisanBreads (3861 posts) -

@hatking said:

It really is terrible in such obvious ways that it's baffling to me how well it made out critically. It really exercises the point that critique in this industry needs to evolve into something else. Too few critics are willing to take an analytical, comprehensive approach to their work. Everything is judged on such a surface level, and I think that's why hot garbage is able to slip through the cracks acclaimed. This game is so adamantly about telling you a story, that it rewards you for falling in line with its massively reductive outlook on an entire medium. That "Thank you for supporting interactive drama" is so embarrassingly out of touch that it makes me wonder if this guy has ever actually played a video game, or if he was just too poor a writer to get a script sold and decided to start making video games because, well, nobody apparently gives a fuck about story or narrative here. And that story that it thinks is so precious, doesn't even make sense. It is told fucking terribly. It is filled with worthless, hollow garbage. Gaping plot holes. No grasp of subtlety or metaphor. It meanders with frivolous bullshit for simply the sake of it. It's a novelty. Flashy, unique, and ultimately meaningless.

A couple thoughts along these lines:

Rushing the reviews out. It doesn't work sometimes. There are some games that just need more time to ingest and then there are others where I think we should take a step back then look at it. The problem with games and this idea is that unlike other mediums where criticism has a longer shelf life, games keep moving forward quickly. I think we may get to a point where that issue slows down though.

I think game reviewers have big bias towards new experiences. Not that I don't like games that try new things, but I think game reviewers so often will latch onto them. And then that isn't backed up by public response. Look at something like SportsFriends, which I heard about tons and tons for YEARS and then it sold really poorly. Or how CoD or sports games are crapped on most of the time and then in public these are a few of the most popular games every year. And both even share the similarity that they don't change too much year to year.If I listened to critics I'd wonder how they keep making all these Dynasty Warriors games. Why would they be made if people weren't buying them?

It's just a disconnect. It isn't that something new or different is always popular among critics and not among the public (I think the Souls games are a good example of the opposite) but it's something I think is very evident with some of Cage's stuff. I don't know how else to explain comparing it favorably to Scorsese or Fincher. It requires such an appreciation for the game's form (where it is innovating) that you have to overlook how poor all the storytelling and delivery really is.

#8 Posted by ArtisanBreads (3861 posts) -

I share your criticisms of the story. I found it laughably bad. I know it reviewed well but I must have not read the reviews because wow, the comparisons to Fincher and Scorsese... yikes.

I don't understand the hype around Cage. He makes the games all about the story and the stories are awful. It'd be like hyping up a fighting game producer who sucks at making gameplay and balance. Like if we hyped up Itagaki and he never made Ninja Gaiden. Or id if they never made Doom.

I loved the beginning of Indigo Prophesy but otherwise it's all been very poor work.

#9 Edited by ArtisanBreads (3861 posts) -

@hailinel said:

Some new information that's come out:

Tabata originally joined the team as co-director in 2012, prior to its mechanical transition toward its present gameplay and the move to the PS4/Xbox One. He's also stated that he's familiar with Nomura's vision and knows what his intent for the game is, so for those of you hoping that this magically removes Nomura's touch from the game, tough noogies. But he's also stated that the various issues that plagued Versus XIII's development have long since been ironed out, and the development team is now more consolidated and organized, so it seems that whatever drama that existed years ago is no longer the present case.

The idea that this would even have that large of an effect on the game I find a little crazy. Obviously things could be changed but a game that's taken this long, is this big, and is this close to release has to have a lot of it set in stone by this point.

Unless I'm about to get blindsided by a 2016 release or further. I have to expect this is holiday 2015 or early 2016 release at latest. Even if it is late 2016 the game can't and won't be radically changed though.

#10 Edited by ArtisanBreads (3861 posts) -

@savage: Yeah I think the Divinity guys said the game would have been made without Kickstarter but it wouldn't have turned out like it did. I'd bet that it wouldn't have been the same level of turnbased hardcore RPG if it wasn't a successful Kickstarter. That showed there was interest and justified it.