@brodehouse: I just think it was all presented very well and unless you're looking, don't see how you see any of these supposed big issues as something that drags down the game for you as its happening.
ArtisanBreads's forum posts
That was a good one dude!
I don't think I could really pick one myself. Between the Endurance Run, Bombcasts, all the videos. There is too much.
@jasonr86: Obviously. That's going to happen and I acknowledge that of course. GTA V isn't even a top ten game for them and it's my GOTY. But I just don't get the logic. That's all I'm saying. Infinite is very good.
@jasonr86: I think the criticisms, which to me are minor. Stuff like the violence, the racism (again, how is showing the reality of history something to knock it for?), some of the cracks in the time travel. And on the GOTY podcast I just heard Brad seem to assume the game wasn't a top 10 game because that was said. I just feel like the discourse on Infinite is very negative for some reason and the game doesn't deserve it. Especially with how Bioshock 1 is so loved. I found this to be far better.
I'm not sure why you guys keep bringing up Last of Us. They are two different games going for different experiences. Even if they compare, one's quality or lack thereof shouldn't have any impact on the other. I mean don't you guys experience games in a vaccumm removed from one another? Which makes making lists really weird but that's another issue.
You answer it for yourself, not when making lists.
I liked Last of Us that's the thing, but I just had a better time with Bioshock. But that's not really as important to me. Just when we get to hear all the criticisms laid out on a game, I think Last of Us gets a pass on things Bioshock gets criticized for. Like I said, people often decry the violence in one and not in the other, or how the characters fit into that violence. Both games do that basically the same way, but I hear Bioshock criticized for that.
To me every game of a certain level will compare to others. That' how my mind work. I don't mean to say people can't like Last of Us more, I realize I'm in the minority on this one it seems. I just don't get the logic being used to be as critical of Bioshock Infinite as some are.
And to me they are more similar than I've heard people bring up. Troy Baker was both characters! And they were pretty much the same. The father daughter relationship. Both even were a long escort mission (done well). So a comparison, to me, makes sense. They do play very differently, obviously.
TLoU contextualizes the violence way better. Not only with its story/scenario but also through its presentation. In BI, the shift from story segments to shooting dozens of nameless dudes in the face is way more jarring. Just take the instance where you can play guitar in a bar's basement for example. Such a heartwarming scene with Elizabeth singing and handing an orphan an apple. And right the next minute, you head up into the bar room and shoot about a dozen people dead.
TLoU is still far from perfect though since the bodycount is still unbelievably high by the end of the game but it is a step into the right direction.
My take-away here is that it is good that these two games happened. Their reception and the discussions they sparked (along with Journey, Gone Home etc.) will make developers of future games think differently about merging story and gameplay.
That's the point of the violence in Bioshock, this idyllic world they are presenting is a facade.
To me it was in the first Bioshock (the world as it seemed to have originally existed, plus the Art Deco presentation, with Splicers and the violence going on in it) and even more so here because in Infinite the world was fleshed out to be very American and it showed specific issues with that. Unlike Bioshock 1, you get to see the world operating normally in Infinite. And then we get to see things like the racial issues in action. To see their ideal world and then come to be shown "oh, black people don't get to participate" subverts what you're seeing, as does the violence and the class issues that would cause people to rebel. You are realizing "hey, this aint Disney World, this is a pretty fucked up place".
Booker is a bad dude and they go out of their way to point this out. He is a Pinkerton too, practically just a mercenary for corporate interests. That's basically the entire point of the whole Little Big Horn sub plot and the museum. They went out of their way to earn that.
Last of Us did earn it too, by showing how much Joel lost at the start. So I don't think they're any different. I just don't get how you can criticize one and not the other.
Dude I couldn't agree more. I like how it was always "there are issues with the story" and then they never had anything specific to bring up, just kind of left that out there like it was a fact.
The thing I've heard that I acknowledge is the violence and killing... but is something like Last of Us any different? Both even acknowledge it the same way (your main character is a bad dude with a bad past). But Last of Us is okay and Infinite has issues? I don't get it. I think Last of Us has issues in its story but that doesn't get any criticism while people love to go to town on Infinite.
If I was in the room, I would have been asking what these assumed issues are. At least Jeff called out the haters on his GOTY list. For this kind of discussion to not dig into all these "issues" Brad in particular seemed to put at this game's feet as a fact was a bummer.
My main problem is that there was a substantial amount of talk about narrative issues that Infinite has but almost no talk about what that entails. I feel like over the year people have soured on Infinite in a weird way, focusing solely on the negatives, to the point where that is all anyone seems to think of when the game comes up. Last of Us, by comparison is looked at as this shining beacon of perfection where its negatives (which I think it has both narratively and gameplay wise in similar ways to Infinite) are completely glossed over.
I would like to hear what the team's thoughts about the specifics of their issues are (there certainly are issues with both games). I think a lot (not all) of the plot holes that people talk about are ones that took a bunch of people a couple of months to scour the game for. Some of these are kind of inherent to the genre and are about as silly as saying that magic doesn't/can't exist because of x and that's why Skyrim is bullshit. I agree that waving these things away and saying you just have to "go with it" is unproductive too, but a certain amount of leniency could be applied given the scope and ambition of the storytelling, especially as it takes a fair amount of digging before any truly glaring oversights become apparent. As you experience it, it fits together pretty damn well and reaches a conclusion that is consistent and emotionally resonant, succeeding where so many (even highly regarded) sci fi stories fall on their face.
Well put dude. I just simply bought into Infinite's world so much. It was presented so well... to me it's totally like Jeff puts it on his GOTY list. If you are really trying to tear down this story by finding cracks in the logic you are kind of a weirdo and probably no fun at all. I don't even understand doing that.
To me, just look at for a good example how Infinite was slighted for having any presentation of race or class issues in its narrative. Yes these weren't the focus and their importance to the plot was overblown by some press pre-release... but who cares? They fleshed out the world and almost no games even show class and race issues. So when a game puts them into its world appropriately and to show absolute realities of American history, it gets knocked? What? That was probably the most maddening one for me.
They sold me a great experience and I bought it from the start to the end and had a great time.
There is nothing wrong with Windows 8 you weirdos. Tired of reading this nonsense. Great OS.
So I installed this program called Modern Mix that lets me use the metro apps in desktop windows, metro apps are now not terrible on a desktop comp.
That would make me pay attention to apps. Without them, still think Windows 8 is great but I'll have to check that out.
@falserelic: I think I'm a good guy, but it's less that than just in reality having it in front of you... it isn't that appealing. But to be fair I haven't been to the nicest strip clubs... maybe that's better?
And I definitely appreciate women, the idea should be appealing (I thought it would be) but in reality, I didn't enjoy it. But hey man, people go, so obviously not everyone feels the same.
Spending money for something hollow also is very unappealing to me too.