@humanity: I see where you're coming from on Thief 1 and 2. A lot of games from the era don't quite hold up that way (the levels feel big and directionless). I find Deus Ex holds up remarkably well though in that regard to this day.
And I agree on Hitman. Defended it up until it came out (took them at their word you could make the game harder) and I was right in a way but it was this super linear cover based stealth game, so I was let down like you probably were.
The multiple review idea is great to me but at the same time, this site is moving away from reviews over time it seems (besides Alex). Seems like we'll just have to make due with the podcast impressions and that kind of thing to get a few different views.
@humanity: I suppose I would agree with your sentiment as I see Deus Ex HR praised for how close it is to the original and all when I think the level design compared to the original is absolutely terrible (and that was the key to exploiting all the freedom and RPG elements of the game). So cramped and so little freedom.
The point of my post is just I've seen that criticism here on this game and think the studio has a history of doing that, even if reviews didn't call it out last time around how I thought they should have. I feel the same way about Thief as a series as Deus Ex, that the level design is the key.
Hey maybe I try it and love it down the road. Reviews certainly were way off base, to me, about HR in the positive direction. From the gameplay I've seen though, the environments look small and predictable how HR's were.
Anyways, for me, I do take reviews as a collective, between critics and fans and across the board. I love Jeff for example but when he says Red Dead is terrible I know we are never going to see eye to eye on it all.
The reviews are a good indication that it's probably not "art" enough and isn't a franchise reviewers feel obligated to ignore any flaws of.
Even the negative ones praise what they are trying to do with the world. Sounds like poor environment and mission design is the issue. I found this to be how I felt about Human Revolution so no surprise to me.
A top down dual joystick shooter/action RPG is something I've wanted for a long time though. There's been half steps (mainly the game has some progression or a skill tree) but I've always wanted even the missions to feel more like an RPG, have it be an open world.
Last time I checked they only screwed up Aliens: Colonial Marines.
Duke Nukem Forever doesn't count?
DNF was 99% 3D Realms and 1% Gearbox. They didn't make the game, they just finished it up and put it out.
You know, I keep hearing that, but it sounds too much like a scapegoat excuse. Gearbox had the game for a year and a half, and they paid millions of dollars for it. The idea that they didn't went through every level, every bug, every 90s reference done in the 00s, and every ripe bad joke, several times, even before they decided to buy it from 3DRealms is ludicrous. And in all that time, they never make it sound like it was anything less than the second coming. They knew what they had, almost a year before the public, and they either didn't care about ditching enough of it, or they honestly thought it was good enough.
Max Payne 2 with Max Payne 2's gameplay would be great.
FTFY, a cover system in a max payne game = the worst thing ever
I think using cover is realistic to how gunplay works in the kung fu action films Max Payne was always trying to be and 3 was made so you really don't have to use the cover. I see people say otherwise but I don't understand from my experience. I beat the game on almost the very hardest difficulty (painkillers on) using almost zero cover and playing just like Max Payne 2. Maybe on console that can't be done but it sure can on PC.
The reality is in Max Payne 2 there are times when you play where you might as well be in cover. Well you are, there just isn't a button press for it. You're positioned behind a wall or crate or whatever. I played Max Payne 2 again about a month ago and still found it fun to play.
I've played and enjoyed a lot of third person shooters and I think controls and mechanics wise MP3 is the best. The weight, subtly in the movement, ability and usefulness of staying prone after shootdodges, the way the weapon system works (and how that even animated correctly with the characters), the way enemies react to your shots. I could go on. Just so fun to play.