Why doesn't God just destroy Satan? (Answer included)

So I was talking to one of my friends and we had an interesting discussion on Satan and God. I'll go ahead and share the whole thing. 
 
"Hey, I read somewhere that Lucifer being an angel was made out of fire, and all of the angels loved God and adored him, and when God made man, he made him out of clay, and commanded that the angels bow down to them and love them unconditionally as well, but Lucifer loved God so much that he couldn't bow down to anyone else, and he felt that man was inferior to him being made out of clay, so God cast him out of Heaven, away from his love, I'm sure there's more to it but what do you think?"

 
Me: "That's more of an embellishment on what the Biblical text actually states. The Bible does say that the Father made us out of "the earth" (which could be translated as "clay" I suppose) and it does say that Lucifer was essentially jealous OF GOD. It could therefore be interpreted by extension that he was also jealous of man because of man's privelaged position above the angels and all of God's creatures. Also, Lucifer didn't disobey God out of love. No matter how someone wants to twist it. And Lucifer wasn't made of fire, but the Bible states that he was the most beautiful of the angels, was a musical being and was covered in jewels that shone throughout the Heavens."
 
"What about him fighting God? He would have to know he wouldn't win."
 
Me: "Well, that's kind of like saying that Adolf Hitlar would have to know that he couldn't conquer the entire world. But he sure thought he could and was damn well confident enough that he nearly succeeded. Likewise, it says that a third of the angels were deceived by and followed Lucifer. Thus they too were also cast out of Heaven along with Lucifer for their treachery. Therefore Satan was able to convince a third of God's angels that HE was right and God was wrong. Could be he defeat God? No. But he damn well tried. And he knew that angels aren't God, and therefore could be deceived. And they were"
 
"Surely Satan must listen to people talk, he would have to ponder the thought that he isn't gonna win."

 
Me:  "At this point it isn't so much about Satan winning, it's about how much he can corrupt before his time is up. God couldn't be defeated but those that love God can be lead astray from God due to Satan's deception and lies which he uses to sow "seeds of doubt and discord". 
 
"Well no I mean like he can't be stupid enough not to listen in to me or you talk verbally, or see what we're typing."
  
Me: "Satan is a (fallen)angel. Therefore SATAN IS NOT omnipresent or omniscient like God is. That means that Satan cannot be in more than one place at any one time and Satan's knowledge IS limited. He can't read minds. Satan is immortal but God ultimately has power over him. So Satan is immortal but he's no god. Satan cannot create another being and give it life. In fact Satan is the opposite. While God commands us to build up others and not tear them down (love your neighbor as you love yourself), Satan is the polar opposite. He comes to 'steal, kill and destroy" and roams over the Earth "seeking whom he may devour." Satan is not ultimately concerned about WHAT he pollutes your mind with, it's what knowledge he can keep out of your mind (that of God) by keeping you distracted or deceived into believing otherwise the truth and knowledge of God that is his goal. And he does a damn good job of it. "Enter ye the narrow gate: for wide is the path, and broad is the way that leadeth to destruction." 
 
"Why wouldn't God just like, jail him so to speak to cause him from doing all this?"
 
Me: "Because Satan's "life" and the consequences of his choices are still being "played out" as our's are. It is because of the sin that Satan wrought that true love is created. Because true love is a choice and comes from free will. Forced love is not love at all, therefore we have to choose between God's path and the "path that leads to destruction". You can't have light without darkness and you can't have good without evil. It's as simple as that."
 
Now for the best song about Satan from my favorite Christian band. 
Let's all sing together now, "My hands have taught me terrible things/HIS HANDS HAVE SET ME FREE!"
 
 
 

183 Comments
184 Comments
  • 184 results
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
Posted by astrotriforce

So I was talking to one of my friends and we had an interesting discussion on Satan and God. I'll go ahead and share the whole thing. 
 
"Hey, I read somewhere that Lucifer being an angel was made out of fire, and all of the angels loved God and adored him, and when God made man, he made him out of clay, and commanded that the angels bow down to them and love them unconditionally as well, but Lucifer loved God so much that he couldn't bow down to anyone else, and he felt that man was inferior to him being made out of clay, so God cast him out of Heaven, away from his love, I'm sure there's more to it but what do you think?"

 
Me: "That's more of an embellishment on what the Biblical text actually states. The Bible does say that the Father made us out of "the earth" (which could be translated as "clay" I suppose) and it does say that Lucifer was essentially jealous OF GOD. It could therefore be interpreted by extension that he was also jealous of man because of man's privelaged position above the angels and all of God's creatures. Also, Lucifer didn't disobey God out of love. No matter how someone wants to twist it. And Lucifer wasn't made of fire, but the Bible states that he was the most beautiful of the angels, was a musical being and was covered in jewels that shone throughout the Heavens."
 
"What about him fighting God? He would have to know he wouldn't win."
 
Me: "Well, that's kind of like saying that Adolf Hitlar would have to know that he couldn't conquer the entire world. But he sure thought he could and was damn well confident enough that he nearly succeeded. Likewise, it says that a third of the angels were deceived by and followed Lucifer. Thus they too were also cast out of Heaven along with Lucifer for their treachery. Therefore Satan was able to convince a third of God's angels that HE was right and God was wrong. Could be he defeat God? No. But he damn well tried. And he knew that angels aren't God, and therefore could be deceived. And they were"
 
"Surely Satan must listen to people talk, he would have to ponder the thought that he isn't gonna win."

 
Me:  "At this point it isn't so much about Satan winning, it's about how much he can corrupt before his time is up. God couldn't be defeated but those that love God can be lead astray from God due to Satan's deception and lies which he uses to sow "seeds of doubt and discord". 
 
"Well no I mean like he can't be stupid enough not to listen in to me or you talk verbally, or see what we're typing."
  
Me: "Satan is a (fallen)angel. Therefore SATAN IS NOT omnipresent or omniscient like God is. That means that Satan cannot be in more than one place at any one time and Satan's knowledge IS limited. He can't read minds. Satan is immortal but God ultimately has power over him. So Satan is immortal but he's no god. Satan cannot create another being and give it life. In fact Satan is the opposite. While God commands us to build up others and not tear them down (love your neighbor as you love yourself), Satan is the polar opposite. He comes to 'steal, kill and destroy" and roams over the Earth "seeking whom he may devour." Satan is not ultimately concerned about WHAT he pollutes your mind with, it's what knowledge he can keep out of your mind (that of God) by keeping you distracted or deceived into believing otherwise the truth and knowledge of God that is his goal. And he does a damn good job of it. "Enter ye the narrow gate: for wide is the path, and broad is the way that leadeth to destruction." 
 
"Why wouldn't God just like, jail him so to speak to cause him from doing all this?"
 
Me: "Because Satan's "life" and the consequences of his choices are still being "played out" as our's are. It is because of the sin that Satan wrought that true love is created. Because true love is a choice and comes from free will. Forced love is not love at all, therefore we have to choose between God's path and the "path that leads to destruction". You can't have light without darkness and you can't have good without evil. It's as simple as that."
 
Now for the best song about Satan from my favorite Christian band. 
Let's all sing together now, "My hands have taught me terrible things/HIS HANDS HAVE SET ME FREE!"
 
 
 

Posted by Akeldama
 Cool story bro
Posted by ThePhantomnaut

Mr. Satan.
 

Posted by Lemoncookie01

Edited by TwoLines

What they said.
Also, he meant Why Doesn't God just destroy Miroslav Satan- The NHL player.
Why doesn't he?

Posted by Oldirtybearon

I don't know if you know, OP, but religion and politics are usually not a good source of quality discussion on message boards. The primary reason for that is because most people go to sites like GiantBomb to talk/read about video games, not God (Joe Pesci) and (mr) Satan.

Posted by Emilio

Please stop mixing up Lucifer with Satan.

Posted by Sanj
@Lemoncookie01 said:
"
 
"

That is excellent.
Posted by makari

God has plot armour.

Posted by astrotriforce
@KingWilly said:
" I don't know if you know, OP, but religion and politics are usually not a good source of quality discussion on message boards. The primary reason for that is because most people go to sites like GiantBomb to talk/read about video games, not God (Joe Pesci) and (mr) Satan. "
Well there's a first time for everything. The more people out there like me who try and actually discuss things intelligently, the better things will be. You always get people who leave shallow answers or say whatever the crap they want, and people who answer intellegently and leave a few good, thought out comments. In this case I thought it'd be fun to post this and have people get whatever they want out of it. I wasn't going to come back and comment as I'm sure it'll turn into one of "those" religion threads. But whatever. 
 
 At least with everything I've posted so far I've been surprised to see some generally intelligent answers, but not always. But thanks for the tip I appreciate it. :)
 
PS: First time adding a video to a post and the width is a little too huge but I don't know GB's width. Any help on that so I can resize it or is it fine?
Posted by astrotriforce
@Emilio said:
" Please stop mixing up Lucifer with Satan. "
Yes Emilio, please forgive me for my sins.
Posted by onarum

because neither one of the two exists maybe?

Posted by Aarny91
@Sanj said:
" @Lemoncookie01 said:
"
"
That is excellent. "
Agreed. :D
Posted by Emilio
@astrotriforce said:
" @Emilio said:
" Please stop mixing up Lucifer with Satan. "
Yes Emilio, please forgive me for my sins. "
Don't worry, it ain't no sin. Just a common mistake.
Posted by teh_pwnzorer

  

Posted by Red12b

 Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste

Posted by phrosnite

Did anyone actually read it? I didn't...

Posted by Red12b

If you meet me, have some courtesy, have some sympathy, and some taste, use all your well-learned politeness, or I'll lay your soul to waste.    
Posted by teh_pwnzorer
@Red12b said:

" If you meet me, have some courtesy, have some sympathy, and some taste, use all your well-learned politeness, or I'll lay your soul to waste.     "

  mmm yeah 
(woo woo, woo woo)     
Posted by GunnBjorn

Yep, you treatise pretty much sums up the 'Universal Impugnment'. 
I've been (in)doctrinated in that matter since the cradle by my mom who is a JW. 
Metallica's 'Dyers Eve' has been my anthem ever since I realized how I've been brainwashed all these years. 

'Undying spite I feel for you, living out this hell you always knew!'
Posted by zudthespud

I read about the first 5 paragraphs before I burned out. I've never been good with fairy tales.

Posted by Red12b

I watched with glee, while your kings and queens, fought for ten decades, for the gods they made    
Posted by Drakhir

If God exists and is omnipotent, he can simply destroy or imprision Satan.
Plus, Lucifer had his own beliefs and he just followed them. God creates humans and states that they are the new black. How could Lucifer just accept that forced inferiority and forced love for humans instead of his father's?

Posted by WoodenPlatypus

Im lost, I dont actually think the answer was included, unless the answer includes an explosion and a slow motion fist fight it isn't an answer. Sorry.
Posted by Red12b

I hope you guess my name
Posted by dudeglove
Posted by GunnBjorn
@Red12b said:

"I hope you guess my name "


You 'go by many names'...?
Beelzebub?    
Posted by Jadeskye
@Lemoncookie01 said:
"
"
i have been made obsolete. Damn now i need to spend some time in photoshop for a new CSB photo XD 
 
Well done sir.
Posted by Cwaff
@phrosnite said:
" Did anyone actually read it? I didn't... "
I did.
Posted by CRAzYKiLL3R93

I have a religious question 
 
Adam + eve = Cain and Able.  Kid wise, what the fuck happened next?! 

Posted by Castiel

Because... Chaos reigns! 
 
  

Posted by Lucifer

what is this i dont even

Edited by PenguinDust

I read it and while it is true that religion on forum boards doesn't usually go over well (unless you are condemning it) I didn't find this is particular post as anything controversial.  It was an interesting conversation with a viewpoint set within its format.  If you've seen the movie Waking Life, that's how most of the story is told.  People just talking about big big subjects as comfortably as many of us discuss levels and game play.  And, I would agree with the OT's summation that for free will to exist we must have choice.  As a person journeys through their life, challenges and decisions face them, and what path they choose along the way will ultimately lead to a destination.  Followers of the faith believe humankind will stand before God's judgment one day and account for his sins.  Temptation to stray from God's path is formed by our weaknesses and exploited by the Devil.  And, so he exists to provide that promise.  But, as was impressed in the recent Brink video here on Giant Bomb, no one sets out knowingly on a path towards evil.  The road to damnation can be subtle built from seemingly small pebbles of selfishness, arrogance and desire.  There is a great line at the end of 1995's The Usual Suspects, "The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist."   A lot of people prefer the idea of being unaccountable for their misdeeds.  It's called getting away with it.  

Posted by c1337us

Because its all a childrens story.

Posted by sodiumCyclops

Santa Clause is more believable. Christmas presents FTW.

Posted by TMThomsen
@astrotriforce said:
[...Well there's a first time for everything. The more people out there like me who try and actually discuss things intelligently...]
Sorry, but when you start defending a religion "intelligently", you've already lost.
Posted by luce

"Bible states that Lucifer was the most beautiful of the angels, was a musical being and was covered in jewels that shone throughout the Heavens."
 
So Lucifer was a fruitcake

Posted by SuperSecretAgenda

See, this probably would have been a better idea to post on a religious forum. Not a gaming forum.
 
No one takes religious topics seriously here.

Posted by Stilblad
@astrotriforce: So you are still into those ancient fairy tales?
Posted by NekuSakuraba

Wow, I actually read all that!  
 
Great work! :D

Posted by Sadisticham

If supernatural has taught me anything it's that gods retired. Lucifer is awesome. Angels are real dicks and death? Well death is top dog.
 
He'll reap god himself one day. ;O
 
..What? My show>the bible. It tells a better story that's all. Demons, angels and humans fighting it out for rule over the world is way better than some dude coming back to life with no explaination that's just cheap. Bad writing you don't bring someone back and not explain it.

Posted by Red12b
@astrotriforce:  
The video will be too big for people who have small resolution, like me, The site is meant to be viewed 1280 but I view it in 1024 so it's a bit massive.  
Posted by DragonBloodthirsty

I skimmed it briefly.  I got enough to get the gist of representing Satan as a being opposed to the will of God in a futile struggle to screw up whatever he can before "his time is up".

As I recall, the original idea of "Satan" wasn't in opposition to God at all, but was a servant who tested the will and character of the faithful followers and was never called by that name (Satan) in the written documents.  This role appears in particular in Job and in the temptation of Jesus.  In Job, Satan claims that Job remains his faithfulness only because he has such a darned nice life.  Satan then suggests that if all these nice things were taken away, Job would curse God's name, and then spends his time making Job miserable in an attempt to prove his point.  With Jesus (iirc) he tries to get Jesus to abuse his godly powers, and Jesus puts him in his place (forgive the lack of detail -- you can look it up yourself if you really care to know).  In both of these situations, the goal was to assess whether the seemingly good men were actually good, or just put into circumstances that caused them to appear good without having good character.

I seem to remember that Satan as the embodiment of evil is an influence from Zoroastrianism, which has distinct beings of good and evil.  I'm less familiar with the original Jewish teachings, but it never seemed to be implied that anything was in opposition to God.

Posted by Oldirtybearon
@astrotriforce said:
" @KingWilly said:
" I don't know if you know, OP, but religion and politics are usually not a good source of quality discussion on message boards. The primary reason for that is because most people go to sites like GiantBomb to talk/read about video games, not God (Joe Pesci) and (mr) Satan. "
Well there's a first time for everything. The more people out there like me who try and actually discuss things intelligently, the better things will be. You always get people who leave shallow answers or say whatever the crap they want, and people who answer intellegently and leave a few good, thought out comments. In this case I thought it'd be fun to post this and have people get whatever they want out of it. I wasn't going to come back and comment as I'm sure it'll turn into one of "those" religion threads. But whatever.    At least with everything I've posted so far I've been surprised to see some generally intelligent answers, but not always. But thanks for the tip I appreciate it. :)  PS: First time adding a video to a post and the width is a little too huge but I don't know GB's width. Any help on that so I can resize it or is it fine? "
Video's fine. 
 
Also, I wasn't trying to be an ass (unlike most in this thread), and if you want a serious discussion on this then you should have it. I just wanted to warn you of the potential backlash that is usually common when religion and politics are brought into a message board about something else. 
 
That being said, I can't say one way or the other on your OP. I'm not a religious person (much less a Christian), and I've never read the Bible all the way through. I hit a certain point and  something about it felt flimsy to me. 
 
Although that could be the incredibly cheap paper.
Posted by BraveToaster

I was raised going to church, but I don't go anymore. The thing that gets me is that we're told that God knows everything before it even happens. If this were the case, why did he go through with creating something that would eventually turn on him? I ask, but I'm sure no one has the answer (and someone will try to come up with a bullshit reason). 
 
The world is all sorts of fucked up and it's hard for me to believe that an all knowing force saw this coming, even before man walked the earth. If Satan was banned for heaven, why was he given access to walk the earth and corrupt Adam and Eve? What were the dinosaurs created for?
 
I have a very hard time believing in God, but he should not have created Lucifer to begin with.

Posted by Arbie

One cannot destroy that which does not exist!

Posted by Tennmuerti
@CRAzYKiLL3R93 said:
" I have a religious question  Adam + eve = Cain and Able.  Kid wise, what the fuck happened next?!  "
Some sexy incest three ways.
Posted by gosukiller
@Erzs said:

" One cannot destroy that which does not exist! "

 
Posted by dbz1995
@CRAzYKiLL3R93 said:
" I have a religious question  Adam + eve = Cain and Able.  Kid wise, what the fuck happened next?!  "
A lot of shit, actually. It is well known that Cain kills Abel, but then Adam has another son called Seth. He lives for another 800 years, giving birth to sons and daughters before dying. But we don't care about them because they didn't have an awesome storyline.
Edited by CitizenKane
@astrotriforce:  If you like that sort of stuff, read Paradise Lost.  Really amazing story on the battle between, Lucifer, God, and Man in the beginning.  It portrays Lucifer as a somewhat sympathetic anti-hero.  A man aware of his own faults, but realizing that he can not change so he comes to grips with himself and his purpose(God made him so he would rebel against his throne later) and carries it out as so.  You can read an awesome monologue by Lucifer in my See mini bio section.  It takes place after the war and he traversing the abyss past Earth and Man towards his own throne in Hell.
  • 184 results
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4