When winning matters more than fun (then no one has fun)

I enjoy a good multiplayer game from time to time. Granted I'm not always that great at a lot of games but I play video games for recreation. After all that's what video games were created for. To have fun and enjoy yourself. Even if I lose I still have a good time. I believe in being a good sport and having fun so that everyone can have a good time. That's what matters to me the most in every game I play. Halo: Reach, Mass Effect 3, League of Legends, TF2, etc. Yeah I put in as much effort to win as anyone would but I don't freak out at all in the middle of a game, or shun people because they aren't as experienced as I would be play the game.

However often times recently I keep running into people online that only care about winning and they don't care who's having a good time or not. For example last night (at the time of this writing) I was playing some Super Monday Night Combat (which is a fun game btw). Halfway into the match our defenses start going down and things aren't looking so good for our team. One fellow in particular happens to have a head set on and is barking orders at people and constantly yelling at us to protect the lanes, spawn bots, get on the anihilator ,etc.

Needless to say the dude was getting on my nerves to where I finally just typed into the game chat saying "Dude, chill out it's just a game" and that merely opened the flood gates for him to start spouting off how I'm such a noob and that I'm not playing the game right. Okay if there's one thing I really can't stand is when someone tells me I'm playing the game wrong. I think I speak for a lot of folks that when you have a game that's online only and you're just figuring things out, yeah you're gonna make mistakes and you shouldn't get on someone's case because they don't know as much as an expert would. Lighten the fuck up.

But how about when you can't even get into a game at all? Couple nights ago I wanted to play some Mass Effect 3 multiplayer. I had a level 5 Vangaurd that I wanted to get some XP for so I decided to use him. Since none of my friends were online I had no choice but to use quick match to find a group. Not once, not twice, but three times in a row I was voted out of groups. I even set my quick match settings down to Bronze level challenges thinking maybe I'll find a more accepting group of people who don't mind playing with a low level character. Nope, same friggen result. I mean I couldn't belive it. People cared that much about winning that they won't allow anyone below max level to play with them? It's like what crime against video game multiplayer did I commit? Basically I said screw it and went back to playing ME3 Single Player

Finally last week, I wanted to play some League of Legends. Now I've been kinda out of touch with the game since I hadn't loaded it up in a while but I wanted to jump back into it to play a few games for fun. To make a long story short it was something similar to what happened in SMNC, but with my whole team bitching at me instead of just one person. With constant game chat messages in all caps saying "STOP FEEDING" or "WHY DON'T YOU HAVE THE RIGHT GEAR" I mean jesus christ, I'm sorry if I bought the "recommended" equipment from the store and that I don't play the game like I'm trying out for the friggen MLG or something. I stayed in the game until we finally lost to which I was kicked from the game lobby very quickly. I mean... damn.

Stuff like this needs to stop and I know not everyone online acts like this but I wish there was a way to tell these folks that winning isn't everything and a game is supposed to be about having fun. That's why it is called a "game" not life and fucking death.

But that's my two cents folks. Play to have fun, not just to win because as long as there's competition there's always going to be a loser but it doesn't mean you have to be a sore loser.

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Posted by Atary77

I enjoy a good multiplayer game from time to time. Granted I'm not always that great at a lot of games but I play video games for recreation. After all that's what video games were created for. To have fun and enjoy yourself. Even if I lose I still have a good time. I believe in being a good sport and having fun so that everyone can have a good time. That's what matters to me the most in every game I play. Halo: Reach, Mass Effect 3, League of Legends, TF2, etc. Yeah I put in as much effort to win as anyone would but I don't freak out at all in the middle of a game, or shun people because they aren't as experienced as I would be play the game.

However often times recently I keep running into people online that only care about winning and they don't care who's having a good time or not. For example last night (at the time of this writing) I was playing some Super Monday Night Combat (which is a fun game btw). Halfway into the match our defenses start going down and things aren't looking so good for our team. One fellow in particular happens to have a head set on and is barking orders at people and constantly yelling at us to protect the lanes, spawn bots, get on the anihilator ,etc.

Needless to say the dude was getting on my nerves to where I finally just typed into the game chat saying "Dude, chill out it's just a game" and that merely opened the flood gates for him to start spouting off how I'm such a noob and that I'm not playing the game right. Okay if there's one thing I really can't stand is when someone tells me I'm playing the game wrong. I think I speak for a lot of folks that when you have a game that's online only and you're just figuring things out, yeah you're gonna make mistakes and you shouldn't get on someone's case because they don't know as much as an expert would. Lighten the fuck up.

But how about when you can't even get into a game at all? Couple nights ago I wanted to play some Mass Effect 3 multiplayer. I had a level 5 Vangaurd that I wanted to get some XP for so I decided to use him. Since none of my friends were online I had no choice but to use quick match to find a group. Not once, not twice, but three times in a row I was voted out of groups. I even set my quick match settings down to Bronze level challenges thinking maybe I'll find a more accepting group of people who don't mind playing with a low level character. Nope, same friggen result. I mean I couldn't belive it. People cared that much about winning that they won't allow anyone below max level to play with them? It's like what crime against video game multiplayer did I commit? Basically I said screw it and went back to playing ME3 Single Player

Finally last week, I wanted to play some League of Legends. Now I've been kinda out of touch with the game since I hadn't loaded it up in a while but I wanted to jump back into it to play a few games for fun. To make a long story short it was something similar to what happened in SMNC, but with my whole team bitching at me instead of just one person. With constant game chat messages in all caps saying "STOP FEEDING" or "WHY DON'T YOU HAVE THE RIGHT GEAR" I mean jesus christ, I'm sorry if I bought the "recommended" equipment from the store and that I don't play the game like I'm trying out for the friggen MLG or something. I stayed in the game until we finally lost to which I was kicked from the game lobby very quickly. I mean... damn.

Stuff like this needs to stop and I know not everyone online acts like this but I wish there was a way to tell these folks that winning isn't everything and a game is supposed to be about having fun. That's why it is called a "game" not life and fucking death.

But that's my two cents folks. Play to have fun, not just to win because as long as there's competition there's always going to be a loser but it doesn't mean you have to be a sore loser.

Edited by Flawed_System

Man, you should play some Counterstrike:Source. People on there are insane sometimes...and you have the occasional shemale voice (12 or under little kid). I have a turtle beach headset. I turn the volume and the bass up so I can hear footsteps. I can't tell you how many times I've been accused of having "wall hacks".

League of Legends looked fun...but I keep hearing tales like the one you just told so I figured it wasn't for me. I'm competitive and all, but people have to realize it doesn't matter if you lose...what really matters is your K/D.

Posted by Atary77

@Flawed_System said:

Man, you should play some Counterstrike:Source. People on there are insane sometimes...and you have the occasional shemale voice (12 or under little kid). I have a turtle beach headset. I turn the volume and the bass up so I can hear footsteps. I can't tell you how many times I've been accused of having "wall hacks".

League of Legends looked fun...but I keep hearing tales like the one you just told so I figured it wasn't for me. I'm competitive and all, but people have to realize it doesn't matter if you lose...what really matters is your K/D.

Been ages since I touched Counterstrike but I should defiantly load it up sometime. I've certainly heard a number of folks being accused of using Wall Hacks and the like though. And very true about the K/D ratio hehe but still, it's all about fun and being a good sport.

Edited by TheDudeOfGaming

When i used to play Dota it wasn't so much about winning, but rather it was about not losing. Winning was okay, but when my team lost and then some asshole on the other team started talking shit, i used to rage so much, kind of scared myself. So, I'm really not made for competitive multiplayer, I'll go play some Fallout.

Posted by Atary77

@TheDudeOfGaming: I'll admit, there was a time when I used to let people who would talk shit ,smack talk ,and just gloat over their wins and I'd turn my system off or start sending all kinds of negative messages just reducing myself to their levels. I learned that you gotta be better than that though and that people will talk all kinds of smack to get in your head and try to mess with you. I feel it's best not to say anything at all. If the guy on the other end wants to be a jackass let them. And after all, at the end it's just a game.

Posted by 1337W422102

I played one round of Heroes of Newearth and had no desire at all go back for another.  A friend of mine gave me a copy of Dota 2 on Steam and I haven' been able to join a game yet (servers were down when I wanted to play, or undergoing maintenance or something).  I'm not sure if that upsets me, though.

Posted by MikkaQ

Yeah I agree, competitive gaming is in a fucked up place right now and it's really not as fun as it used to be. I play a lot more co-op now than I do head-to-head. People just take it far too seriously, it's all just a bunch of those silly "360 MLG 420 Headshottz" losers on youtube mucking it up for normal people who don't have the time, nor the desire to invest hours and hours into one multiplayer game.

Edited by ZeForgotten

I like the people who get really angry when your team just lost a game. 
They start going on and on about how they're so amazing and all that junk (especially gamesl ike Dota or LoL) and how you're the one who sucks and stuff like that. 
Then you start asking them what professional team they play for and how much money they've won so far, then they go "uh, I don't play for any pro-gaming team, why?" .. Well then, little Jonny IdiotMcFuckNugget, guess you aren't that good after all, huh?  
 
Then of course the rest of the guys on the team and the other team start laughing and the angry people leave because they don't actually have anything to say worth listening too. 
Also, lord help new players when it comes to the "MOBA" games. You're not allowed to have just made an account in any of those games because everyone will hate you because they're not smart enough to teach you how to play the game. 

Posted by zombie2011

The only games i cared about winning in were Halo 2 and Halo 3.

The way the ranking was in those games is that if you lost too many games in a row you would lose rank. Now the way games are is that you can lose every game you ever play but you still rank up just for participating which made me lose my competitive edge.

Edited by DJ_EuroGhost

The whole point of competition is winning, right?

If you are not playing to win, at least in my opinion, you're doing it wrong.

That's not to say that winning is always fun, In SMNC in particular, there are some pretty wild swings game to game, where you will have a feeder or two on the opposing team one game, making the eventual victory trivial and unfulfilling, and other games you will have to heroically defend while your useless Captain Spark heroically charges in head first against three pros every opportunity he gets until the game ends.

Games that are competitive all the way through can be fun even if you don't win, but they are still better and more fun if you eventually win them.

I also think people take winning against random people on the internet way too seriously sometimes, but if you're just playing to have fun (as in, you're generally fucking around not doing what is required to win the game) then you are wasting the time of everyone on your team, which in my opinion is pretty rude. And not knowing how to properly play the game is not really an excuse either (again most often the case in SMNC), games are played over the internet, that thing has google.

Also, have we learned nothing from Norman "The Shoebreaker" Chan?

Edited by Sanryd

This is why I play support in LoL now. Before I took a 1.5 month break from the game I played almost exclusively AD. Being in a role hoping to carry the game like this meant that when you had those people on your team who were responsible for screwing your team over, I was left disappointed. Now I get to enjoy the strategy of the game from a sort of "back seat" role. It's fun even when we lose most of the time for me.

Posted by SamStrife

it's been said before and no doubt it will be said again but LoL has the single worst online community ever.

Posted by Atary77

@DudeOlav: You raise some good points. I guess when I mean "playing to have fun" I mean playing the game the best that you know how and not simply screwing about or trolling. Because yes, that can be a huge waste of everyone's time regardless if you win or lose. So when I say "I play to win" to me that means I'm going to play the game and give a good effort with whatever knowledge I have of the game and how it works. And depending on how much experience I have with the game my knowledge of it may be limited and I may not know enough to make a better effort. But I'm always willing to learn and always open to advice from other players who know more than I do.

And true with online games you obviously have internet access so you should have no problem finding advice or guides on how to play any given game. But out of all the guides, tips, tricks and the like to me nothing is better than playing the game itself and learning the ins and outs as you play and this can be done online or even better if you have an offline practice mode. But "playing to win" shouldn't mean doing whatever it takes to win the match no matter who you scare off from the game, but it should mean playing the game fairly and giving a good effort and when you lose you take it graciously and have a good time.

Posted by frankfartmouth

It definitely takes away from the enjoyment a bit. I miss what multiplayer was when I was growing up, 8 or 9 friends getting together in the same room, face to face, and fucking each other up in Mortal Kombat or Street Fighter. Sure people would talk shit, but it's different when you're right there next to someone. You're going to make sure it's not as malicious. With the anonymity the Internet provides and the absence of the threat of personal beatdowns for being an asshole removed, some people are going to inevitably exercise their pent up, otherwise unusable talent for being a loudmouth, confrontational douchebag. It's just the way it is. You just have to ignore it and not take it personally.

Posted by Atary77

@frankfartmouth: Those certainly were the days. And of course there was still a sense of only wanting to play with friends and not random strangers like you would in arcades. Oh lord the humiliation when I wanted to play Killer Instinct for the first time only to have the floor wiped with me in a few seconds and having some teenager add insult to injury with a friggen forty hit combo. Yeah I don't miss the arcades, but I do miss getting together with people you know in the same room and facing one another in person rather than at a distance.

Posted by DJ_EuroGhost

@Atary77: I guess we are pretty much in agreement then, although "just" playing the game can lead you to picking up some bad habits that will hurt you in the long run, and for SMNC, the uberent forums focuses the information you need like a laser beam, and let's you instantly pick up good habits through knowledge that might take you hours to pick up on your own. Be it information on how jungle bots spawn, what a fuji-bot drops when you kill it, or tips on how to best use a specific skill.

Anyway, even though your post isn't SMNC specific, if SMNC is ever treating you bad, join the Giant Bomb SMNC Group , hit me up on steam and we can collectively kick some butt :)

Edited by MordeaniisChaos

@Flawed_System said:

Man, you should play some Counterstrike:Source. People on there are insane sometimes...and you have the occasional shemale voice (12 or under little kid). I have a turtle beach headset. I turn the volume and the bass up so I can hear footsteps. I can't tell you how many times I've been accused of having "wall hacks".

League of Legends looked fun...but I keep hearing tales like the one you just told so I figured it wasn't for me. I'm competitive and all, but people have to realize it doesn't matter if you lose...what really matters is your K/D.

Some would argue that manipulating your audio setup to hear things in ways you aren't intended to hear them is on the same basis.

Winning is for losers. The best multiplayer matches are the contentious drawn out back and forth ones that make it clear that either of the teams could just as easily win. I've been getting into Super MNC lately, after avoiding it like the plague because things like grappling just never worked for me, and because I was tired of people not owning up to it's clear and obvious influences (It's not a particularly original game, and thats ok as long as it's admitted), and just plain not liking MNC. But they seem to have ironed out a lot of the networking issues, added more classes, and generally done a good job of making the game a little more enjoyable for my tastes. But I wasn't having a lot of great matches. They were fun enough, but it was a lot of my with way more kills than anyone else for the longest time, and then once our team started pushing up against the moneyball the other team started to get some kills and kinda catch up to me, but we still won; or it was the other way around were I got stomped because an assassin had 25 kills and everyone else had like 3, and our team was pushed down quicker than quicker. Then the other day, I had the longest and most contested match I'd had in the game, and it was awesome. I still lead my team, but there were people keeping up with me, the guy leading on the other side was always within like 50 points of me whenever I looked. There was even a point early on when they did a good job pushing and it started to look like we were going to lose, but I pushed ahead to apply pressure to their moneyball, and that managed to pull them off of their push long enough for us to gain the upper hand. It was an awesome match, and my team did eventually win but that was just the icing on the cake. It was fun because no one person in the match was really doing all that poorly. Scores were relatively even, and there wasn't one person miles ahead of everyone else making the game frustrating for others.

I also juiced like three times within a span of 5 minutes because they spawned and I killed a million fuji-bots in a row. That was awesome :3

I've had plenty of matches in TF2 where my team lost, but we did a good job of holding on as long as possible and making the match a close one, and those are always enjoyable. It isn't fun to win, it's fun to perform well and end a game where both teams have a healthy respect for the skills of the other.

@DudeOlav said:

The whole point of competition is winning, right?

If you are not playing to win, at least in my opinion, you're doing it wrong.

That's not to say that winning is always fun, In SMNC in particular, there are some pretty wild swings game to game, where you will have a feeder or two on the opposing team one game, making the eventual victory trivial and unfulfilling, and other games you will have to heroically defend while your useless Captain Spark heroically charges in head first against three pros every opportunity he gets until the game ends.

Games that are competitive all the way through can be fun even if you don't win, but they are still better and more fun if you eventually win them.

I also think people take winning against random people on the internet way too seriously sometimes, but if you're just playing to have fun (as in, you're generally fucking around not doing what is required to win the game) then you are wasting the time of everyone on your team, which in my opinion is pretty rude. And not knowing how to properly play the game is not really an excuse either (again most often the case in SMNC), games are played over the internet, that thing has google.

Also, have we learned nothing from Norman "The Shoebreaker" Chan?

I disagree. As long as I go up against duders of similar skill, I usually have fun in games I enjoy. I don't need to place crazy high on the scoreboard or anything, I just want to play the game and have fun. In Halo 3 I had a pretty piss poor win/lose ratio, but I loved the MP in that game for a good long time. I eventually got ok at it, but as soon as that happened I started playing BTB which threw all that out the window in favor of chaos and good clean fun. I rarely got in a game in Halo and went up against some asshole who was clearly a mile and a half better than everyone else, or even me, there was usually some good competition for me to enjoy playing against, and often the wins were less fun because it meant there was less to go up against. The way I see it, losing slightly means you got to do more, fight harder, and in my case, have more fun than winning will give you.

Plus usually when I win it's a steamroll because matchmaking is bad in games these days. Er, I mean because I'm amazing at video games.

Posted by Bocam

One thing I don't like about DOTA 2 is there's still no tutorial.

Posted by Atary77

@MordeaniisChaos: I agree, the best games are the ones where you feel evenly matched where it feels like a battle for each side both trying their best. That to me is part of having fun in any online game where you give a good effort. It doesn't matter if you know all the ins and outs of how the game is supposed to be played, what matters is that you tried and gave it your best shot.

Posted by Vodun

@Flawed_System said:

it doesn't matter if you lose...what really matters is your K/D.

Why are you playing team based games?

Posted by Godlyawesomeguy

The title of this thread sounds like the name of a song.

My insightful contributions to this site are numerous.

Posted by Demoskinos
@Atary77 In MOBA games there IS a definitive "right" way to play. Everything you do affects your entire team and you have to be willing to learn what you need to be doing or your gonna get bitched at. If you want something more casual man you shouldn't be playing MOBA games.
Posted by ZeForgotten
@Demoskinos said:
@Atary77 In MOBA games there IS a definitive "right" way to play. Everything you do affects your entire team and you have to be willing to learn what you need to be doing or your gonna get bitched at. If you want something more casual man you shouldn't be playing MOBA games.
But the ones that could teach you how to play "MOBA" games "right" are the assholes bitching and whining right when you have created your account.  
So other than those useless pricks who else could teach you how to play? Certainly not some .txt file on some website
Posted by Demoskinos
@ZeForgotten Plenty of resources online to figure that stuff out. Dunno about LoL but SMNC has both practice skirmish match and practice arena modes as well as tons of guides on the uberent forums.
Posted by Atary77

@Demoskinos said:

@Atary77 In MOBA games there IS a definitive "right" way to play. Everything you do affects your entire team and you have to be willing to learn what you need to be doing or your gonna get bitched at. If you want something more casual man you shouldn't be playing MOBA games.

Yeah I've learned that you can't play MOBA games the way you would like a team based FPS where you do what you can till you get killed. In a MOBA you have to keep the other teams from getting kills because that will make them stronger and give them an edge the "Feeding" affect that's mentioned a lot. But it's kinda stupid when you're trying your best NOT to be killed only to get owned on by some expert and your whole team turns on you and accuses you of feeding the other team even when you're trying not to.

It's like what Jeff had mentioned during the quick look vid for AwesomeNauts. We've been kinda trained to play online games a certain way of playing till we die and simply respawn. But a MOBA can't be played like that. It's a useful lesson though and it's cool when a game dose something different and makes you change your tactics accodringly, but you can't rag on people who are trying to learn the ropes. They're gonna make mistakes but hopefully they learn from those mistakes. I know I did but I'm still no expert and don't plan to be.

Bottom line, a MOBA dosen't have to be for casual players, but you shouldn't HAVE to be an expert either.

Posted by Flawed_System

@Vodun said:

@Flawed_System said:

it doesn't matter if you lose...what really matters is your K/D.

Why are you playing team based games?

I was being sarcastic.

Posted by ZeForgotten
@Demoskinos: The last thing most people wanna do is sit around and read forums posts about a game when it would be just as easy to get into a game and have one of these so called "expert" players of the game actually tell you how to play it. 
You learn nothing about how a character controls or how to best use their powers by watching videos or reading a forum thread about it.  
I'm not talking about SMNC here, that game was easy to get into and play a ton of good games in. I'm talking about games like Dota, HoN or LoL. One out of a trillion (maybe exaggerated a little :P)  might be a good guy and say "sure, I'll show you the ropes and figure out what would suit you best to play as" while the rest are like "OMG! You're new? I'm the best around these parts, don't get in my way. My farts smells better than yours!" :P
Edited by Flawed_System

@MordeaniisChaos said:

Some would argue that manipulating your audio setup to hear things in ways you aren't intended to hear them is on the same basis.

The headset is great...you can also determine the direction the footsteps are coming from and how far away they are. If you cut the chatter and gun sounds you can hear footsteps on pretty much any headset though (just not depth).

Posted by Commisar123

At least to me I have fun if my personal performance was acceptable. That being said winning is obviously always a goal, otherwise that would be like admitting that video games are meaningless and no one wants that

Edited by Godlyawesomeguy

To add to this thread in a somewhat meaningful way, I think the most you can do is to just ignore the people that are too serious for your level of play. Don't let overzealous players ruin your good time by yelling at you in the chat. As far as the Mass Effect 3 issue is concerned, I've never played Mass Effect 3, but it's hard to imagine that happening in a mainstream console-based multiplayer game. I'd be interested in seeing if other players are having similar issues.

Posted by Demoskinos
@ZeForgotten If your not willing to learn then your not willing to learn. Learning takes effort. If you dont wanna put in that effort that's your prerogative but your going to also have to deal with the flack you get for being the clueless new guy.
Posted by Jimbo

Ideally, competitive multiplayer should seperate people that just want to fuck about from those that are trying to win.  I don't mind people sucking, but I do mind playing with people that don't care that they suck or who aren't even trying to win.  If you have 12 people taking it seriously on one team and only 10 people taking it seriously on the other then two people have effectively ruined the whole game for everybody apart from themselves.
 
"But it's my game, I can play it how I wanna!!"  No it isn't your game; it's a shared competitive experience which you have bought access to. That doesn't give you the right to deliberately ruin it for everybody else.  Try that shit in real life with a game which is being taken seriously by a majority of players and you would -at best- get told to fuck off.

Posted by ZeForgotten
@Demoskinos: So learning it from an actual player of the game makes the guy wanting to learn "not willing to learn" 
Sure, that makes sense
Posted by Flawed_System

@Anwar said:

@Flawed_System said:

@Vodun said:

@Flawed_System said:

it doesn't matter if you lose...what really matters is your K/D.

Why are you playing team based games?

I was being sarcastic.

OP was agreeing with you about the K/D thing though...

"And very true about the K/D ratio hehe"

Yes, he realized it was sarcasm. All people care about is their K/D in team based games (i.e. Battlefield 3 and Monday Night Combat).

Posted by MordeaniisChaos

@Demoskinos said:

@ZeForgotten If your not willing to learn then your not willing to learn. Learning takes effort. If you dont wanna put in that effort that's your prerogative but your going to also have to deal with the flack you get for being the clueless new guy.

That's bullshit. If you're playing with randoms online, you shouldn't give two fucks about how good the folks you are playing with are, that is YOUR choice to play with randoms instead of in a truly competitive environment. You can't expect randoms to live up to your competitive standards, because they are randoms, they will almost never all be at your level, knowledgeably, or skilled, and it's almost never their fault. It's not like the instant you put effort into learning a game, you suddenly game all skills and knowledge needed to succeed at said game.

The simple fact that you always assume that it's the other player's fault shows how out of touch and unreasonable your perspective is.

@Jimbo said:

Ideally, competitive multiplayer should seperate people that just want to fuck about from those that are trying to win. I don't mind people sucking, but I do mind playing with people that don't care that they suck or who aren't even trying to win. If you have 12 people taking it seriously on one team and only 10 people taking it seriously on the other then two people have effectively ruined the whole game for everybody apart from themselves.

"But it's my game, I can play it how I wanna!!" No it isn't your game; it's a shared competitive experience which you have bought access to. That doesn't give you the right to deliberately ruin it for everybody else. Try that shit in real life with a game which is being taken seriously by a majority of players and you would -at best- get told to fuck off.

Then find a better place to game, and don't blame the other players just because they aren't good and there is no good way to separate things out. I agree that games should do a good job of allowing A) dedicated servers that let you find like minded people and similarly skilled players and avoid new and unskilled players, and I like the way Halo handles even matchmaking (social vs ranked), but the fact is that if you are in an open or matchmaking game, the other players aren't responsible for being bad. The first thing you should examine is the game. SMNC is a great example. It does a good job showing the player all of the simple, often self explanatory things (Regenitol? What could that possibly do?) But I was never told A) what it meant when a turret was shielded, how to know, that it could even happen, or what made it happen. And right now all I know about that is what it looks like and what it means when you try to damage said turret. Things like that aren't explained in the game, but rather require you to go outside of the game to figure out. That is absolutely the game's fault. The game doesn't have a single basic tutorial on basic progression, it doesn't have a system to inform the player when they experience a new thing (for example the first time they try to fire on a shielded turret, when that isn't explained at all in game), and as a result a lot of people aren't well versed in the core mechanics, let alone the strategies that are important. On top of that, it's a bit of a tricky game to get into even when you want to make the effort, so your first stint in the game is bound to be filled with struggling with the shitty default key bindings or understanding how to actually deal with the numerous classes in the game. The only thing the training mode or whatever in SMNC taught me about was the chicken, everything else I had figured out pretty much on my own in the previous game. But there are plenty of things I don't know yet, some which should probably be contained in the game, and some which require either reading up or just getting more time and experience. I prefer the latter because it lets me find my own way to deal with things effectively, and you know what? I don't give a shit if I am feeding the team you're up against. It's matchmaking, and if you're so much better than me you shouldn't be playing in my game, and if you are so much more competitive, it's easy to get a team together in that game so you can't complain about randoms feeding the other team. The idea that everyone instantly has to be just as knowledgeable and as skilled as you in a game is silly. And assuming that no one cares is also silly, because chances are, it's because the game expects you to leave the game, read a fucking wiki, and then come back to be able to stand against the likes of you.

Posted by Jimbo
@MordeaniisChaos: Format that if you want me to read it.
Posted by MordeaniisChaos

@Jimbo: How about no? :D It's a paragraph bro, never read one of those before? Would you like me to spoon feed you every word, perhaps? If you're too lazy to read, I'll be too lazy to format, thank you very much :)

Posted by Example1013

@MordeaniisChaos: No, that's an entire half page of gibberish, except without line spacing to make it look even the least bit readable because the GB forums are single-spaced. Try again.

Posted by ZeForgotten
@Example1013: Wouldn't call it "gibberish". 
I didn't have any trouble reading what he wrote
Posted by Jimbo
@MordeaniisChaos said:

@Jimbo: How about no?

Works for me!
Posted by Example1013

@ZeForgotten: It's half a page long and single-spaced. I mean, obviously you can read it, but it's still a mess.

Posted by Demoskinos
@MordeaniisChaos I dont need to be super competitive but if your too lazy to learn how to play your role on a basic level then your being rude and trollish. There's a vast difference between someone who is doing badly and at least aware and attempting to do what they need be and jackasses who try to lone wolf the entire match ignoring callouts that their teamates make.
Posted by jakob187

I think everyone only looks at it as "the guy yelling is a dick, fuck him". Look at it another way:

OP, you said that people tell you to "stop feeding" and "build the right gear", then go on to say that you are sorry for building the recommended items or that you may or may not have the time to do a little bit of research, then you are destroying enjoyment and fun just as much as anyone you claim to be doing the same.

If you are on the same skill level and play level, you will find that people will respect you if you are playing like a team and you still lose. If you know what the hell you are doing, you will find way more fun and enjoyment.

Otherwise, get ready to hear way more verbal berating from the community on a regular basis because you are the problem. = / Sorry if that sounds dickish, but it's the truth.

Posted by bobafettjm

I can't stand playing a game and hearing people just yelling at someone who isn't doing something right, especially if that person is clearly not doing it on purpose. Seems to me like if you are that serious about these games there are plenty of options like Gamebattles to get serious games going.

Or if you think someone is doing something wrong maybe just try explaining why they are doing it wrong rather than just berating them. It's people like this that have made me avoid playing certain games, because I know the community is filled with pompous people who will just be jerks about everything.

I consider myself a pretty good player of Call of Duty games, but not one time have I ever gotten on my headset and berated the bad players on my team for being bad. I also will always try and help people out if they seem to be having a hard time. Hell I don't even get on people who are purposely messing around and not trying, I simply avoid them and find a new lobby to play.

Posted by Jay444111

People who don't use mics in team based games are scum IMO anyway. Sure, I could understand if you are mute and all that, and if it had a dailouge wheel to help with orders and such. But in a team game? Yeah... that does not fly in my ballcourt. Get a mic and help or run off like a lone wolf and die, leaving us to our doom. No mics... they are all terrible.

Posted by Atary77

@jakob187: I get what you're saying ,but I think there's a difference between giving constructive criticism and just barking orders at someone especially when someone is repeatedly throwing text into the game chat in all caps. And I'm always open to take advice from others and try to look for good items based on stats etc. But I still don't think it's my fault if I don't do every single thing one hundred percent right. Things happen in games that you just have little to no control over and I think it's BS to get blamed for stuff like that.

But I'm willing to learn from mistakes and I try to learn from experience in a game as well. And how else can one gain experience in a game if they aren't given a chance to try because snobbish and obnoxious pro players wanna make new comers feel like a piece of shit. Again I'm not saying that every pro player is like that, but there are too many of them that are and just get frustrated way too easily with people who ARE trying to learn and are willing to learn and put effort into winning the game. You can't blame them if there are guys on the other side ten times better than they are that take advantage of their little experience.

You can't simply berate people for a lack of skill when they honestly try.

Edited by onan

@Atary77 said:

But how about when you can't even get into a game at all? Couple nights ago I wanted to play some Mass Effect 3 multiplayer. I had a level 5 Vangaurd that I wanted to get some XP for so I decided to use him. Since none of my friends were online I had no choice but to use quick match to find a group. Not once, not twice, but three times in a row I was voted out of groups. I even set my quick match settings down to Bronze level challenges thinking maybe I'll find a more accepting group of people who don't mind playing with a low level character. Nope, same friggen result. I mean I couldn't belive it. People cared that much about winning that they won't allow anyone below max level to play with them? It's like what crime against video game multiplayer did I commit? Basically I said screw it and went back to playing ME3 Single Player

Seeing how no one has addressed this bit yet, I'll go ahead and point out that Vanguard in Mass Effect 3 multiplayer is broken. You weren't getting kicked because they didn't want to play with a "noob," I'm fairly sure they would have kicked a level 20 Vanguard just as quickly. It's not really fair to blame the people who value winning over fun for this particular perceived injustice.

There are currently 791 videos of Vanguard glitching on youtube, but here's one:

So yeah, they don't want to waste their time with a Vanguard when it means three things - First, they'll be playing through the majority of the match with only 3 people (once the Vanguard glitches out), making things unnecessarily harder for everyone else, assuming they're good enough to even make it to the end at all (It also takes way longer: On average, it takes about 20 minutes to complete a round with 4 competent players. With only 3, it's can take anywhere from 25-30 minutes). Second, even if they finished, at most they'll only get credit for a partial extraction and objectives will take longer so they make less money, plus they're statistically going to have to use more consumables to get by - rockets and medpacks, especially. Third, and probably the most damning, people hate the idea of having to carry a glitching Vanguard to the finish line and let them reap all of the rewards. Before this became common knowledge, they'd also waste time trying to revive Vanguards every minute or so because they kept dying, and it left them vulnerable.

I'm not entirely innocent here. I tried to power through the Vanguard thing a few times, but ultimately I'd just keep glitching out. I'm not too proud to say one time I actually did leave during the match to go make myself a sandwich. I was pretty hungry, though, and the glitch wasn't about to fix itself. I've since taken Vanguard out of my rotation, which is a shame because it's probably my favorite character class (SO much fun to play.)

If you want to play Vanguard, you need to host. It's the only way to avoid the glitch right now.

Posted by Tim_the_Corsair
@Jay444111

People who don't use mics in team based games are scum IMO anyway. Sure, I could understand if you are mute and all that, and if it had a dailouge wheel to help with orders and such. But in a team game? Yeah... that does not fly in my ballcourt. Get a mic and help or run off like a lone wolf and die, leaving us to our doom. No mics... they are all terrible.

We aren't all in a situation where we can use mics all the time; for example, I spent the last two years having my PC in the bedroom where my shift-working fiancée was sleeping.

By your post, I should be keeping her awake so can, what, about "OMFG WATCH OUT THAT ENGINEER IS A SPY!" ?

Fuck that. I type where appropriate, and I play my part in any multiplayer game, mic or not. Hell, I used to war in CS all the time without a mic when mine broke and I was an impoverished student, and we still found ways to make it work.

Microphones help, no question, but they aren't the be all and end all, and they are less important than actually just working alongside your teammates.
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