Props to Vinny on Oct 19, 2011 Bombcast

In the process of listening to this week's bombcast and just thought Vinny is really cleaning it up this week. First he repeats the fact that he likes Morrowind more than Oblivion which puts anyone in my good books.

But then he goes into the used games sales online pass business and does some great work. I collect video games; I don't buy used games that are currently in print or reasonably available new and will never ever sell a game. I have been nothing but an ideal consumer to publishers/retailers. These online passes aim to wreck the cohesiveness of the video game package. This is their designed intent so that people buy it new. When you tell me I have to choke this shit down to help the industry deal with used games sales fine I'll accept that begrudgingly. When Gamestop the #1 cause for these online passes bypasses this system by giving cash to publishers while I still get screwed I just get pissed off. And I'm glad Vinny got pissed off and made them talk about it.

As said it is a 3 ring circus and how I deal with it is to buy new and pretend/assume all preorder bonuses are worthless/irrelevant. I'm sure tons of people may comment that it's just a mild inconvenience but I don't see it that way and I won't really respond to such comments.

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Posted by BirdkeeperDan

In the process of listening to this week's bombcast and just thought Vinny is really cleaning it up this week. First he repeats the fact that he likes Morrowind more than Oblivion which puts anyone in my good books.

But then he goes into the used games sales online pass business and does some great work. I collect video games; I don't buy used games that are currently in print or reasonably available new and will never ever sell a game. I have been nothing but an ideal consumer to publishers/retailers. These online passes aim to wreck the cohesiveness of the video game package. This is their designed intent so that people buy it new. When you tell me I have to choke this shit down to help the industry deal with used games sales fine I'll accept that begrudgingly. When Gamestop the #1 cause for these online passes bypasses this system by giving cash to publishers while I still get screwed I just get pissed off. And I'm glad Vinny got pissed off and made them talk about it.

As said it is a 3 ring circus and how I deal with it is to buy new and pretend/assume all preorder bonuses are worthless/irrelevant. I'm sure tons of people may comment that it's just a mild inconvenience but I don't see it that way and I won't really respond to such comments.

Posted by BirdkeeperDan

And Vinny went into the Gamestop and he overturned the tables of the sellers of preorder bonuses and online passes. And he would let no fake online passes be carried through the store. And Vinny began to teach and said to them "Is it not written that my store shall be a place of entertainment for all gamers? But you have made it a den of robbers." And the Gamestop executives and publishers heard this and were seeking a way to destroy him, for they feared him, because all gamers were astonished at his teaching.

I thought of this after I wrote the post and thought it was too funny not to add it. It's all in jest so don't take it too seriously.

Posted by CheapPoison

Agreed!

We salute you sweet prince!

Edited by MikkaQ

I dunno, it kinda depends on stuff. I mean yeah it's bullshit, but at the same time, if you buy everything new, it won't bother you. And if you buy older games used it still won't bother you because they don't have any of that pass stuff.

Still getting kickbacks or whatever is just plain shitty,

Posted by SmilingPig

Vinny is my # one.

Posted by Paulus

We ARE the 99% !

Posted by altairre

As I already posted below the podcast, I totally agree.

Posted by MooseyMcMan

Vinny is a man of infinite wisdom.

Online
Posted by Superfriend

Vinny rules, but to be honest it seemed like he didn´t remember anything about Morrowind- he was talking about it being third person for a while. Good thing he played Morrowind though. The others seem to be absolutely ignorant when it comes to TES.

The whole gamestop/preorderbonus/onlinepass rant was spot on. My thoughts exactly. Ryan came across as a bit of a selfish dick though.. Then again, it´s a podcast and a lot of things are said in the heat of the moment.

Online
Posted by rawrsair

We love Vinny

Posted by End_Boss

@Superfriend said:

Ryan came across as a bit of a selfish dick though.. Then again, it´s a podcast and a lot of things are said in the heat of the moment.

No no, it's okay. You don't have to be polite for the sake of Davis' feelings. He knows he's a selfish dick.

Posted by BirdkeeperDan

@Superfriend: I often play Morrowind in third person when I'm just cruising around but obviously first person when I have a quest or something specific I'm doing. So being 10 years ago I don't think it really means much he didn't remember it's primarily first person.

Yeah everyone will say stuff in the heat of the moment but what I liked about Vinny's piece was that is is the opposite of manufactured opinion. It really sounded like it just struck his heart and he spoke out about it; it makes it seem more honest.

Posted by Jolt92

Agree with you OP, Vinny's talk about the online passes was great.

Posted by 9cupsoftea

@BirdkeeperDan said:

And Vinny went into the Gamestop and he overturned the tables of the sellers of preorder bonuses and online passes. And he would let no fake online passes be carried through the store. And Vinny began to teach and said to them "Is it not written that my store shall be a place of entertainment for all gamers? But you have made it a den of robbers." And the Gamestop executives and publishers heard this and were seeking a way to destroy him, for they feared him, because all gamers were astonished at his teaching.

I thought of this after I wrote the post and thought it was too funny not to add it. It's all in jest so don't take it too seriously.

Brilliant.

And yeah, Ryan Davis unsurprisingly in the 'publishers' word is gospel/I'm ok and that's all that matters' camp.

Posted by mfpantst

Ya vinny was on point on this one.  I'm willing to be a 'good' customer just don't make me fucking jump through hoops to be your ideal.

Posted by ervonymous

I'm glad he didn't back down after Ryan tried to belittle his point.

Posted by BirdkeeperDan

@9cupsoftea: I don't know, I don't ussually like being negative to a person whereas I have reduced sympathy for organizations/corporations. But as I said it's all in jest so maybe I could change it if everyone thinks it's more appropriate. I'm not currently convinced though.

Posted by BirdkeeperDan

@9cupsoftea: Oh I forgot to say thanks; the internet leads to bad manners.

Posted by MasturbatingestBear

I don't know man. I fucking hate the idea of online passes. So I was kind of glad to hear that Gamestop was giving away the codes for a game like Batman anyways.

Posted by DeF

All these online requirements are a PEST. I'm glad Vinny kicked up some dust :)
 
just imagine you wanna play something like Arkham City on your console of choice in say 15-20 years (like many of us do with SNES games and the like) ...you throw the game in (assuming those fragile ass consoles still run) and you expect to be able to play as Catwoman and since you probably have to re-install the game the game asks you to download the content again .......which you cannot do because there is no PSN/XBL anymore or the license has moved to another company which means there is no Catwoman floating around in the marketplace cloud. 
 
THIS is what pisses me off about all this code/download crap.

Posted by Arker101

When he started to get heated up, I thought "AHHH, SHIT! Vinny just got real."

Posted by megalowho

OP (and Vinny) hit the nail on the head. It's one thing to bemoan and try to combat used game sales with an online pass system. But then to go and cut a deal with the biggest reseller of used games in the industry (Gamestop), thus ensuring that people can still buy Batman used there and remain unaffected, while the rest of us have to jump through hoops or pony up $$$, is just crazy. It's crazy talk!

Posted by ShaggE

Yeah, Vinny laid it down and laid it down well. I was honestly surprised that nobody agreed. (and Ryan's "stop acting like a child", while certainly in jest, seemed to have an actual bite behind it that REALLY threw me)

The guys tend to be very like-minded, so heated debates like that are a rare treat. I'd love to hear more of those.

Edited by Mexican_Brownie

My love for Vinny only increases with each Bombcast, and him laying it down on the online pass/ used games bullshit was my favorite part of this week's Bombcast.

Vinny <3

Posted by BirdkeeperDan

@MasturbatingestBear said:

I don't know man. I fucking hate the idea of online passes. So I was kind of glad to hear that Gamestop was giving away the codes for a game like Batman anyways.

If you hate online passes join with us. Consumers shouldn't have to deal with this crap. And the fact that Gamestop is bypassing the system this way shows it a temporary solution and lets all hope it's phased out and a better measure that is fair to consumers is introduced.

@DeF said:

All these online requirements are a PEST. I'm glad Vinny kicked up some dust :) just imagine you wanna play something like Arkham City on your console of choice in say 15-20 years (like many of us do with SNES games and the like) ...you throw the game in (assuming those fragile ass consoles still run) and you expect to be able to play as Catwoman and since you probably have to re-install the game the game asks you to download the content again .......which you cannot do because there is no PSN/XBL anymore or the license has moved to another company which means there is no Catwoman floating around in the marketplace cloud. THIS is what pisses me off about all this code/download crap.

This is one of the many terrible long term implications of these online passes and preorder bonuses.

Also,

Vinny is a man of the people.

Posted by OllyOxenFree

There is no October 19, 2011 Bombcast. Just sayin'.

Posted by BirdkeeperDan

@OllyOxenFree: Oh crap sorry I guess I wrote this after midnight.

To be clear the title should read "Props to Vinny on Oct 18, 2011 Bombcast"

Posted by Soffish

I really love Vinny, but I really don't know why he was so upset. Isn't it better that Gamestop pony up for this this kind of thing rather than the consumer? It seems like Vinny would rather not have a used-game market simply so he wouldn't have to take the ten seconds to punch in a code. I don't know, it just seems sort of childish and selfish on Vinny's part to me. I just don't get how someone like Vinny can have such an anti-consumer attitude.

Posted by BirdkeeperDan

@Soffish: I think you are missing the point. These online passes shouldn't exist. They exist primarily because of Gamestop. If Gamestop bypasses this then nothing has changed except that now people that buy games new are saddled with these online passes. And people who buy games new deserve the most consideration by the publishers. But clearly EA and many others don't care and will stick it to us whenever their naive financial analysis tells them it's profitable.

As a side note I am conflicted saying this as a collector but Steam is awesome. And Valve's their dedication to their customer will make them succeed when hundreds of others will fail.

Posted by Brodehouse

Vinny won't play a PC game unless it's on Steam. Licenses bought over Steam are CD keys. An online pass is a (limited) CD key for console games. Digital distribution is going to make the entire game be an 'online pass' situation.

There are certain sacred cows that don't seem to have the rules applied to them, while everyone else gets excoriated. Steam appears to be one of them.

Posted by Soffish

What do mean nothing's changed? The publisher is now making money off used games sales but the people who buy used games aren't being punished, the only entity that loses is gamestop in this situation. I really don't see what's wrong with this situation, the publisher gets their money and the gamer gets the full experience, everybody wins! The only actual negative is that you have to punch in a code...that's it, I really don't see how that's such a big deal.

Posted by McGhee

Vinny Caravella, a true man of the people.

Posted by BirdkeeperDan

@Brodehouse: I understand the comparison you draw with Steam. However what is difference is Valve's dedication to their customer. It really makes losing rights a valid proposition. If you listen to some interviews with Gabe Newell you see that he really gets the importance of treating your customer with respect.

@Soffish: I think my original post is well reasoned. I find in trying to respond to you I am just rewording my original post so please refer to that.

Posted by Brodehouse
@BirdkeeperDan There is no difference. Most people love Steam on the sole account of them having crazy sales. It doesn't change the reality of the situation just because Valve has better PR.
Posted by kingzetta

I love vinny but I thought this rage was a little over the top and went on for a little long.

Posted by uniform

Vinny is my favorite, and I'm not saying he's wrong, but I kind of wanted to hear them talk about y'know..Batman, not this nonsense surrounding the Catwoman code. Hopefully that was the last of it and they talk about the actual game next week.

Posted by Soffish

I just really can't comprehend why people want to do away with the used game market, simply because it's a minor inconvenience to them. Seriously, a lot of people depend on gamestop/blockbuster/redbox/gamefly for their games, hell doesn't Vinny have a gamefly subscription? How can Vinny condemn gamestop...but continue to give gamefly his financial support?

Posted by august

I just bought Batman at a local place because they're basically they only people really getting screwed over in this whole deal, I was kinda dissapointed that wasn't brought up during discussion.

Edited by HarlequinRiot

@BirdkeeperDan: Awesome, just awesome. I can't believe no else noticed.

One thing I'd like to ask/put forward: Is it really any better to buy games long after release than it is to just get them used? Retailers have ordered their copies and will most likely not be refilling stock way after release. So in that case, the publishers/developer has already made their money and won't be profiting anymore right? So is it essentially a "used game" sale?

EDIT: Got my answer. @BirdkeeperDan: Thanks! Interesting. I never realized how long out retailers would/could keep up stock.

Posted by Winsord

@XII_Sniper said:

I dunno, it kinda depends on stuff. I mean yeah it's bullshit, but at the same time, if you buy everything new, it won't bother you. And if you buy older games used it still won't bother you because they don't have any of that pass stuff.

Still getting kickbacks or whatever is just plain shitty,

Well, the thing now though is that if 95% of used game sales are going to include these passes anyways, why have them at all? (from the point of the consumer) The issue comes in with the customer having to enter the key and then spend both the bandwidth and time to download the "extra" content. Obviously it's not the end of the world if you're inconvenienced a bit and have to wait 30 minutes longer before you get to play your game, but it's coming down more towards the pointless jumping through loops at this point, and the publishers who partake in the online passes in the first place belittling themselves. It does bother me.

Posted by PillClinton

Agreed. I was pleased to hear Vinny just come out and be real and honest, not tiptoe around the issue, or be "polite" or "professional". It's huge corporations taking advantage of, and straight-up exploiting consumers, and it's wrong. So thanks, Vinny, for saying what most of us are hopefully thinking.

Posted by Tylea002

Amen to Vinny. He said what was on his mind, and got genuinely emotionally invested in his argument, and was saying the right thing!

Posted by Javes

@uniform said:

Vinny is my favorite, and I'm not saying he's wrong, but I kind of wanted to hear them talk about y'know..Batman, not this nonsense surrounding the Catwoman code. Hopefully that was the last of it and they talk about the actual game next week.

Like Jeff said in the podcast, there is a text review, video review, and quick look on the site. They've already expressed how great the game is and I imagine any more in depth discussion of it would find the group in spoiler territory.

Posted by Soffish

"We'll dry up the need for brick and mortar stores"- Vinny Caravella, a true man of the people.

Edited by ProfessorEss
@Tylea002 said:

Amen to Vinny. He said what was on his mind, and got genuinely emotionally invested in his argument, and was saying the right thing!

Not just what's on his mind but something (one of many things) that nobody else will.
 
It's a shame that the publishers have so many journalists on hand to help push their agendas while there are so few with any degree of Joe Consumer's interests in mind.
 
...but whatever, s'just videagames.
Edited by BirdkeeperDan

@Brodehouse: I don't want to derail the topic just because you dislike Steam. I will let Steam's success speak for me.

And this topic is getting a little too serious. I call for some photoshops of Vinny with the Tetrix axis tower added.

@HarlequinRiot: After a game is out of print & their stock is all shipped to retailers the publisher will never receive more money for a game from retailers. It's not easy to tell when this is or if your purchase made outside of the release window is causing retailers to place new orders for a game. But I'd say for games released in the last 3 years that aren't in the bargain bin there is reasonably chance a publisher will realize additional revenue from your purchase.

Also in some cases their may be arrangements were publishers get paid when the game is sold not shipped. I'm no expert on game sales just using general business knowledge here.

Posted by RenMcKormack

@BirdkeeperDan said:

And Vinny went into the Gamestop and he overturned the tables of the sellers of preorder bonuses and online passes. And he would let no fake online passes be carried through the store. And Vinny began to teach and said to them "Is it not written that my store shall be a place of entertainment for all gamers? But you have made it a den of robbers." And the Gamestop executives and publishers heard this and were seeking a way to destroy him, for they feared him, because all gamers were astonished at his teaching.

I thought of this after I wrote the post and thought it was too funny not to add it. It's all in jest so don't take it too seriously.

And who here among you doubt that on the third day Vinny rose! WHO.

Props to vinny, it is BS and I come here for opinion. But cant hurt them any other way than with wallet. So if people buy into these bonuses, and they do. then it (A) Works (B) is Good business. Still seems lame, but games are still products. like a car or a fridge.

Posted by phantomzxro

@Soffish:

Forgive me as i have a lack of information (did not hear the bombcast ) but i can understand the point of being a little upset. Its seems very backwards to slap this online pass Catwoman DLC to combat used sales but then let gamestop ( Number one company of used game sales) a pass on this. So if you buy this used anywhere else then you are just out of luck. With that logic this does work for gamestop because it confirms to people that gamestop is the place to go for used game sales. which makes this online pass very pointless if it won't stop or discourage used game sales.

I don't have a problem with used games or people who buy them but if the plan is to courage buying new then there has to be a better system to reward new buyers and entice used buyers without hurting loyal buyers.

Posted by Brodehouse
@BirdkeeperDan I love Steam, I've purchased basically all my PC games through it. But it doesn't change the fact that it sells game licenses online, which is exactly what these online passes are leading up to. It's an obvious double standard.

And there's no 'risk' in taking a populist stance. The easiest thing to convince anyone is that they should have more, and that someone is keeping them from having more.
Posted by LeetBalla

I'm a fan of consumer rights, not corporations exerting more control over us. So, fuck you.

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