@Hef said:
@Kingyo said:
@BrockNRolla said:
Anna Kipnis says things well, but states in the same breath why there's little hope for change. So many people don't take the industry seriously, nor issues like sexism for that matter. The comments bear that out too.
People don't take things seriously, and don't want to. It's as though enjoying something and thinking about something have to be mutually exclusive. Any time someone asks them to stop and think about something, to really dig into the implications of their actions and views of the world, they get indignant about it. How dare someone question your world view? How dare someone suggest that you don't see something they do? How dare you talk about a topic they don't care about?
Disagreement and discussion are incredibly valuable, but dismissal, as is the most common comment around here, does nothing but hold this community and the discussed issues back. I applaud anyone willing to keep fighting the good fight to improve the games industry and fight back those who just can't be bothered to give a shit about how others see the world. Patrick Klepek, I can't imagine how exhausting this interaction must feel, but good on your for trying.
Here here.
Fighting the good fight? This is not solely a games industry issue. I think this whole uproar over something so stupid and juvenile is itself stupid and juvenile. Women do not need people to go out and "fight the good fight" for them. What we need to do is call this what it is. Tacky and distasteful. Is it sexist? Hell no. It is a bloody slab of meat with tits on it. Whoopdy-fucking-shit. Sure you can think boobs = sexist, but then you'd be an idiot.
This whole issue is blown way out of proportion and a bunch of niche website full of nerds talking about it on internet forums is not going to change ALL OF MARKETING. Sex sells. Old Spice uses sexy men because girlfriends and wives buy toiletries for their significant other. Just like axe surrounds guys with sexy women when they wear their cologne or body spray or whatever.
But I don't see bloggers and women in the deodorant industry writing blogs about how those commercials offend them. Do you know why? Because in the case of axe, they understand it's stupid and juvenile. And in the case of old spice, it's a guy so it's not sexist or a misrepresentation of the majority of men.
It is a much bigger issue than just the game industry. No doubt about that. As you say, this is "ALL OF MARKETING." In the same way, this article isn't just about the "stupid and juvenile" statue, it's a larger conversation. This is about a whole system which sells sex rather than an actual product. Some people find that highly offensive. I find marketing on the whole to be almost universally offensive, not for any one specific issue, but because it generally focusses on something entirely other than a product or its usage. Maybe people should be outraged in every industry. Maybe they are, I don't know. Video games are just the one product I feel truly invested in.
In this instance, just because you don't see sexism doesn't mean it isn't there. It certainly isn't the only issue to be found, and it may not register as your number one concern. However, you don't have to see it. I don't have to see it. If a population sees it as sexist or disgustingly violent and you don't agree, there is nothing wrong with hearing them out, and considering why they might have a different point of view.
I would hope though that we would hold game development and game marketing to a higher standard than we would our deodorant. I certainly care about video games a lot more than I care about Axe. But, as my original comment stated, a lot of people would prefer not to care at all.
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