cooljammer00's forum posts

#1 Posted by cooljammer00 (1882 posts) -

@cooljammer00 said:

@patrickklepek said:

@kaptainkobe said:

When Wu says she "calls on" you guys to make a statement, do you find that it comes off as more of a plea, or a demand? I don't really know how to read it, and I'd be interested to see how you guys interpret it, being the ones "called" into action.

That was really a miscommunication. We had talked about what happened to Brianna on the morning show, ahead of her interviews, and an article had been planned all weekend. Once she was aware what was happening, she apologized. It's all good. We probably should have talked about this sooner, but we were very careful about how we approached this. We're on good terms with all parties now. :)

When you say "all parties", to whom are you referring? Do you mean the big three in terms of women in gaming who have been targeted like this (Quinn, Sarkeesian, Wu)? Because there are people who you have featured on GB before who have also been targeted by "gamers" (Myers, Alexander, Allen, Simins I guess?) and they are very vocal in their condemnation of Giant Bomb, its staffers (including yourself and @alex, to name a few), and its users. They're saying this letter was too little and far too late, and just another example of you guys not understanding the problem at all because of your biases and life privileges (i.e., you're straight white dudes, so you can't just say "hey everyone, stop being dicks" because it doesn't work and that's not taking the most advantage of your privileges).

It's all very frustrating, because I love Giant Bomb, and while I don't know these women very well, it upsets me that they hate GB (and that's hardly hyperbole. They have all but come out and said they hate almost everyone who comes here because we are fueling the problem that GB refuses to try and fix) And yet even furthermore, I get what they're saying and think they have good points: GB easily could have come out swinging far earlier against bullshit like GamerGate.

I meant specifically in the case of Wu, sorry if that seemed broader than it should have been.

You're right that those people have been (and will continue to be) critical of the site. I invite that, as we can always do better. I don't have a problem with that. I wish everyone loved the site or saw things from our perspective, but you know what? That's not how it works, and people are going to disagree with your approach, people are going to offer differing perspectives, and it's important to listen to them. You might learn something. Disagreement will probably still be there, but that doesn't mean there isn't something to be offered in deep criticism.

Agreed. I just wish "there will always be disagreements" didn't usually escalate into "the people with power disagree with me, I disagree with those with power, but because I'm not as strong/am not afforded the same privileges as they are, I'm just going to be ignored and/or pushed out"

I mean, eventually these people will stop with the whole "I like/respect Patrick and Alex, I just dislike/don't respect the publication they work for" and move to "I don't respect GB including Patrick and Alex". I understand that no workplace, including gaming publications like GB, is perfect. But it feels like in terms of cordial discussions between people who disagree, when does it eventually turn into "Well I just won't listen to anything you have to say anymore"?

I know you've always pushed for the idea of "Making mistakes pave the way towards not making mistakes/learning from your mistakes, and being better than when you went in" but eventually the disappointment of someone turns to distrust and it boils over and becomes an active "you're not even worth listening to anymore". I mean, you can only say "we're trying to be better" so many times, even if you mean it, before people won't believe you anymore.

I'm glad that the relationships you have cultivated with people like Wu, Quinn, Sarkeesian, and others, have not gotten to that point I mentioned earlier (though it does seem that Sarkeesian is not pleased with the GB letter, according to her tweet about silence being complicity. Though of course there are multitudes, and she could both be saying "Yeah, that GB letter was alright" and also be saying "By the way, you need to be better about this next time"). I just worry about those who will end up vilifying "the good ones"

Sorry for rambling.

#2 Posted by cooljammer00 (1882 posts) -

@kaptainkobe said:

When Wu says she "calls on" you guys to make a statement, do you find that it comes off as more of a plea, or a demand? I don't really know how to read it, and I'd be interested to see how you guys interpret it, being the ones "called" into action.

That was really a miscommunication. We had talked about what happened to Brianna on the morning show, ahead of her interviews, and an article had been planned all weekend. Once she was aware what was happening, she apologized. It's all good. We probably should have talked about this sooner, but we were very careful about how we approached this. We're on good terms with all parties now. :)

When you say "all parties", to whom are you referring? Do you mean the big three in terms of women in gaming who have been targeted like this (Quinn, Sarkeesian, Wu)? Because there are people who you have featured on GB before who have also been targeted by "gamers" (Myers, Alexander, Allen, Simins I guess?) and they are very vocal in their condemnation of Giant Bomb, its staffers (including yourself and @alex, to name a few), and its users. They're saying this letter was too little and far too late, and just another example of you guys not understanding the problem at all because of your biases and life privileges (i.e., you're straight white dudes, so you can't just say "hey everyone, stop being dicks" because it doesn't work and that's not taking the most advantage of your privileges).

It's all very frustrating, because I love Giant Bomb, and while I don't know these women very well, it upsets me that they hate GB (and that's hardly hyperbole. They have all but come out and said they hate almost everyone who comes here because we are fueling the problem that GB refuses to try and fix) And yet even furthermore, I get what they're saying and think they have good points: GB easily could have come out swinging far earlier against bullshit like GamerGate.

#3 Posted by cooljammer00 (1882 posts) -

I want @brad, I'm sorry, "J", to tell me more about the Kin.

Also, plenty of people feel like this letter was a half-measure, designed to deflect criticism of the site (I mean, just check Twitter) and basically a verbose "both sides have good points" statement. I won't name names, but it's some of the same people who felt that Luftrausers was anti-Semitic, and then when Vlambeer apologized, said it wasn't good enough of an apology. I guess I can't fault this person, or others who feel similarly, as I wouldn't have minded a bit more castigation of those engaged in a campaign of harassment in the Letter from the Editor. I mean, the crux of the argument is whether or not silence is complicity, but GB staff members were anything but silent. On Twitter, in GB content: they were very clearly against GG and other bullshit. Just because they didn't do a big thing on the site doesn't mean they were silent/complicit.

Still, I guess we can just say this was a resounding "good enough, I guess"

#4 Posted by cooljammer00 (1882 posts) -

@ssully: It was. I've never gone back.

#5 Edited by cooljammer00 (1882 posts) -

I remember watching Dead Snow at some S&M party I attended (as a friend's +1, natch) because it was the only non kink thing going on at the time. It was either watch the naked people or try to watch the movie (wasn't always easy, as someone was tied up in front of the screen and being whipped by women dressed as Nazis, naturally)

Good to see Dead Snow 2 is decent, though, and leans more towards comedy than horror.

#6 Posted by cooljammer00 (1882 posts) -

@patrickklepek, you and @alex spoke a bit about this on today's morning show, but do you ever get....I don't know if "bothered" is the right word, but there are certain games people who have taken it upon themselves to take Giant Bomb and other gaming sites to task for not publicly denouncing GamerGate, or this entire situation. I personally feel like anyone who consumes any amount of Giant Bomb content would know that the site and its staff are very clearly against harassment of any sort. Hell, at PAX Prime, one of the most quoted parts across the parts of the internet where I frequent was Jeff talking about his issues with people who get upset about obsessively labelling themselves as "gamers" when it's ultimately bullshit anyway. And Jeff would be the expert in people not obsessing over games, seeing as he clearly has devoted his adult life to games as a medium.

So I guess it all leads back to the idea of "What do you want me to do?". When people constantly drag GB and your own names through the mud because you guys "won't say anything", I get incredibly confused: I feel like you, Patrick and Alex, are probably some of the most vocal people when it comes to denouncing harassment. If not on here (though again, I feel like you do plenty of talk about it on the morning shows) then on Twitter.

Note: this is the same person who recently and repeatedly denounced GB for not having any women at their E3 show, but then admitted that they had only just watched a few seconds of a stream, saw no women, and turned it off so they could tweet about how angry and dismissive they were. I know, it's all about "trying harder and doing better" but that just struck me as generally misinformed. Shawn Alexander just RT'd a tweet about how everyone complains about Bayonetta but no one praises Amanda Ripley, and how everyone demands more inclusion but no one ever acknowledges when they get it.

#7 Posted by cooljammer00 (1882 posts) -

Also, regarding that last article posted....@patrickklepek, Hey Patrick.

Play Demon's Souls.

#8 Posted by cooljammer00 (1882 posts) -

I only caught slight wind of the shitstorm the Escapist brewed this past week, so I wonder how Jim Sterling feels about the same website he posts his videos to taking such an anti-woman stance.

#9 Edited by cooljammer00 (1882 posts) -

@gonmog: I think people are able to see who has played it by scraping for achievements or something.

#10 Posted by cooljammer00 (1882 posts) -

Yeah, even though there was that GAFfer giving away free money to get people to buy D4, people were still refusing to do it.