Deiterbomber

@CylonAndrew said:

Paradox Interactive also has a problem with Steam. I mean, it blocks the multiplayer for Darkest Hour because it is set up so you can only do Direct IP so it somehow blocks it.

What?

I'm pretty much with @Shotaro on this. There are a lot of proprietary things out there that have been installed with games, so many that have sold pretty well, that I doubt the average PC gamer is really going to care unless it really makes a huge system footprint. Backends are just that: in the back end of the system, in the background. You can tell it not to start up unless you're playing the game in question, and it'll just take up another tiny chunk of hard drive space. It's hardly worth fretting over, and there isn't much competition between Steam and Origin, if any. The only issue that Valve is having is with Origin taking over the updates and DLC management, because it would make their support have to deal with and reroute any issues that users would have with the Origin service in addition to actual Steam-related issues. Not only that, but it would be inconvenient to the user.

@GrandHarrier: The only reason this is 'different' is because it's installing a second backend behind an existing backend. As I said before, D2D and other web-based services work differently than Steam and Origin do, and therefore you're not installing Steam behind something that D2D requires, you're just installing Steam because it's the DRM for that particular game. It's not because Valve published the game and they are requiring you to install Steam, it's because the publisher/developer of the game likes Steam's friend list and achievement backend, and chose that as the way to unify their game's multiplayer/stats/save cloud. Except in the case of Valve's own games, but it would be silly for a company to not use a backend if they've spent time developing and refining it. The exact same thing can be said for Origin, except they're trying to get Valve to distribute Origin via Steam, and then take any content control away from Steam for that game after it's on that machine. Valve isn't paying off companies to use their backend, and outside of distribution fees and such, Steamworks as an API is free to use, so Valve isn't getting loadsamoney from them unless their game sells.

Sorry for the links, it's just easier to illustrate on some of that stuff (and, well, that music video is great). I won't deny I've used Steam as a platform on PC longer and more frequently than any other, and you can call me a fanboy all day, but it's no different from a lot of unifying software. Until Android came out, iOS was the same type of thing, a platform for phones that was "the" thing to use, and perhaps Origin will be the Android to Steam's iOS, but given EA's well-known track history with forcefully-installed download platforms, the skepticism runs deep.

@GrandHarrier: While Steam was pretty awful years ago, nowadays it's either a great community system and game management system, or simply a layer of DRM that isn't completely useless otherwise. Years ago, it was an inconvenience because PCs weren't as powerful, and Steam wasn't as well optimized as it is now. Nowadays, with nearly every PC market shifting towards digital downloads, it's one of the more appealing and convenient ways of content distribution. I had used it off and on a little before HL2 had released, and I was just as frustrated at it as everyone else was. But that's how software works. Just about everything back then was pretty damn buggy until it was updated, and Steam was one of the first services that updated itself automatically (when it worked). That's saying something.

Without sounding too smartass, compare Steam to other (full-install) DRM methods you've experienced in the past. Which would you rather use? And how likely would it be to have those DRM methods effectively connect you with other friends playing that game you purchased?

@GrandHarrier said:

Steam forces you to install Steam. So complaining that a game forces you to install something (like Origin) is a null arguement.

I don't quite understand this argument. There is a lot of stuff that requires Steam because it is only available on Steam, but usually you willingly install Steam, knowing that Steam is the service you will be using to purchase that game, download it, and acquire any updates and/or downloadable content through. What EA was doing (or attempting/proposing) that Valve is refusing to accept is installing their complete backend, completely separate from the Steam service, through the normal install process. The reason for this is because that backend isn't simply an engine (like DirectX or .NET Framework), or a friends list backend (like Games for Windows Live or UPlay, though I'm sure these services are beginning to skirt the line), it is a complete storefront engine that forces content through a pipeline that is completely seperate from the Steam servers. The reasons I stated are two major ones, but if you need a third, despite EA and DICE being big and "trusted", having no control or information regarding the information pipeline involved with a game's updates and DLC means EA could suddenly pull, change, or add content, and Steam servers would be none the wiser.

Imagine downloading 10GB worth of a video game (it's likely), having the download finish only to download the 5-100MB EA Origin backend, have it install, then have to download an additional 5GB of updated files and/or DLC. It doesn't affect any other download service the same way, since most other download services like Direct2Drive and such sell either the initial game and DLC codes to download from other services, or you simply download the game as an installer, and download updates as seperate files or downloaders. Since Steam is an inherently different type of service, it needs these barriers in place to keep companies from effectively screwing over its customers.

Generally, the problem as it stands has been with the way that EA handles its content distribution. Steam (And therefore Valve) runs a content distribution service. When a product is distributed on that service, if another content distribution is installed on top of that, it tends to piss off both the original content distribution owner (Valve) and generally screw the customer, as it forces them to install the second content distributor (Origin), despite acquiring it from the first. This breaks a lot of rules regarding a company offering content on Steam, and they have those in place for good reason. From a business perspective, it effectively forces content purchases to be made on the secondary pipeline (again, Origin), nullifying any further revenue made from that download. From a customer service perspective, it effectively forces the consumer to install proprietary software in addition to Steam, and multiplies the sources from which they are downloading content, complicating their purchase unnecessarily. A lot of the blame lies on EA for suddenly changing their policy, not on Steam for upholding their existing one. While it could be argued that it's unfair that Valve is monopolizing the downloads on their service, it ends up being moot since Steam is their service.

I'm almost glad that they didn't go through with this. I think the worst thing they could have done was all the 'fan suggestion' stuff, because hardcore fans of a series rarely know what it is they actually like about a series, and usually when suggestions are taken, it's usually pretty bad. As much as I'd like to see a MML3, I'd rather not see one than see a horrible MML3.

@csoup said:

Please do not be free-to-play. I want a true support for this game where the games updates are not based on whether or not they were able to sell enough during the quarter. SOE, people WILL pay for this, just let them.

Not to mention, the idea of the possibility of purchasable make me cringe. Unless they are pure cosmetic, I cant stand behind that concept.

"Please do not be free-to-play." is the only thing I will say about Planetside 2. Everything else could be crap, but I'll probably play it as long as it's not F2P.

I was going to make a joke about "Curling each other's hair" but realized Alex wrote this article, not Patrick.

Oh well.

Demon's Souls, Shadow Complex, RUSH, about half of the stuff that I got when I bought the Square Enix collection on Steam last holiday season (most notably Yosumin), Alien Breed, Darksiders, and Puzzle Agent. There are loads more, but that's all I can remember right now.