Devilb0y's forum posts

#1 Posted by Devilb0y (131 posts) -

I know, I know, it's not out yet. But I thought I'd see if watching all the videos and playing the demo has gotten anyone else thinking about all the cool stuff they've missed out that they can put into future installations of this series (so long as it's a financial success).
 
First thing that springs to mind is the gear: it doesn't look like we're going to get power swords or power fists in this game, and I doubt we'll have a chance to don terminator armour any time soon. I'd love to see them put that stuff in, maybe even take a few notes from Mech Warrior and allow a truly customised load out.
 
What about you guys? Anything in particular you really wanted them to include that doesn't seem to have made it in?

#2 Posted by Devilb0y (131 posts) -

Boner-inspiringly awesome. I don't even play 40k anymore, I just still love the universe but I really, really, really enjoyed the demo. So much so that it convinced me to pre-order.
 
My one gripe is that getting to grips with the execute to heal mechanic is quite tough and I found myself dying a lot at first. It seems like the trick is to use all of the weapons at your desposal to avoid either protracted fire fights with ranged enemies or getting swamped in melee.

#3 Posted by Devilb0y (131 posts) -

Key to the Kingdom! If you can find it then play it!  It's kind of a fantasy epic, a bit like Talisman but less shit.

#4 Posted by Devilb0y (131 posts) -

I was a PC gamer until I got my N64 in 1998 so most of my nostalgic games are either arcade or PC based.
 
Commander Keen 1,2 & 3 - the Dopefish still scares the shit out of me.
Raptor: Flight Combat (think that was the subtitle at least).
Captain Commando - hasn't aged well, let me tell you, but I have a lot of time for Ginzu The Ninja.
 Metal Slug 2 - still great.
 WWE No Mercy - best wrestling game ever apart from...
Royal Rumble - SNES classic. Sometimes I miss Acclaim .
Lylat Wars - That's Star Fox 64 to most of you. Still love it.

#5 Edited by Devilb0y (131 posts) -

I'd be down with it. Although I haven't really played any games were a characters sexuality is important and I think shoe-horning it in the same way that J K Rowling seemed to do with Dumbledore (not read the books, just calling it as I see it) can actually cause more harm than good, because you get the negative backlash from the ignorant without any of the positive representation of what it is to be gay. Now if you place it in a game where relationships matter then you make it relevant and therefore have great context to do some good.
 
I think the sales would be dogshit though, because people are idiots.

#6 Edited by Devilb0y (131 posts) -
@allworkandlowpay said:

How is Jill Valentine sexualised? Did she run around moaning when killing zombies? Was she running around in an oiled bikini? Either you a) have never played the game, or b) have no idea what sexualised characters actually look and act like.

I'll concede in RE:1 she wasn't sexualised, although by the time she got around to number 3 she'd gone from wearing combat armour to a tube top and a miniskirt. And the heavy focus on sexual attractiveness of female leads in the Resident Evil series (hell, Capcom games in general) still stands. In the case of Jill in RE:1 I was more driving at her being timid and weak; she ran back to Barry screaming for help alarmingly often for an accomplished member of a special forces unit. By comparison Barry just deals with things because he's a MAN GODAMMIT. That doesn't make sense and it's sexism through lazy characterisation.
 

@allworkandlowpay

said:

. It's not being sensationalist to say that games developers still frequently fall back on 'Make her hot' character design. Ok, we've established that they do the something similar for male leads a lot of the time but at least they don't get pigeon-holed into a fairly offensive stereotype.

Yes, because male protagonists are not pigeon-holed into a fairly offensive stereotype either. I'd like to see a male character who runs from danger, who is afraid of things, who doesn't have twelve pack abs and zero fat. Also, do you have any evidence that game developers frequently fall back on the "make her hot" character design, outside of say kitschy fighting games? Besides Bayonetta, I can't think of any in recent years.

And speaking as a connoisseur, a shower scene is very rarely character-building. They didn't need to show her naked if they wanted to build tension or reference Hitchcock - they certainly didn't with Beardy McBearderson when he takes one in the tutorial (can't remember the protagonist in Heavy Rain's name now). I'm not complaining, I'm just saying that that scene was at least partially designed to titilate.

A little titilation does not discount the character as a sex object. You are applying a double standard, and poorly. Is "Beardy Mc Bearderson" now disqualified as a character because he had a titilating scene? No, so why does one artfully shot partial nudity scene somehow invalidate her and turn her into a sex object. Want to talk about straw man objects, re-read your post.

I think you may have misunderstood me here. I'm saying that the rough, tough, ready for action male stereotype is not overtly offensive to men. It paints them as hard as nails (if insufferably stupid) badasses who fear nothing. This is not a stereotype which all designers conform to, but enough of them do that it has become the norm. Compare that to the female equivalent which is to make them explicitly sexually attractive at the expense of a worthwhile character. I'm not saying that making a character (male or female) sexually attractive is an inherently bad thing, I'm just saying that in the case of female protagonists it is often used in lue of any actual, you know, character. And come on man, do you really need me to list them? Sheva in RE:5, Lara Croft (whichever way you look at what they're trying to do with that character now, she's still most famous for her appearance which is a label they welcomed back in the day. And they're only attempting to characterise her now because they can no longer dine off of the games industries most famous rack), Samus in Other M, every female character in Street Fighter and Mortal Kombat, every female character (including NPCs!) in Dragon Age II with the exception of Merrill. The list is long and if you can't acknowledge that then I'd just repeat what @9cupsoftea said in her last post.
 
And in regards to Heavy Rain, again I think we may have misunderstood each other? I'm saying the main guy (is his name Ethan? Haven't played that game for ages) isn't turned into a sex object because he isn't immediately reduced to a pair of boobs (or balls, or whatever it is girls like about us) the moment we meet him. Yes, he showers. And when he does so he does it in the most efficient way possible because he's cleaning himself, not performing for a horde of slavering gamers. By contrast Madison sensually gyrates in an overlong shower sequence which adds nothing to the story, her character or the tension.
 
Ok, I'm being hyperbolic. As @pixieface said, it's not the worst example of sticking some sexuality into a character I've ever seen, but for a game that was championed as 'the future' of gaming it was kind of disappointing to see a female character pop up and then instantly get stuck in a shower scene. And this is the pinnacle (supposedly at least).
 
Once again, I'm with @9cupsoftea on this one. This is an issue. OK, it's gotten better, but it's not fixed. Just look around and ask yourself why only 20% of gamers are female. There's more of them on this planet than us, so why aren't they playing our games and posting on our forums? It's certainly not because they don't like games. I'd submit it's because they are just that: OUR games. Made by men, for men. Sure, some will do a great job of welcoming women in, but most wont. And most can't see that they're alienating 50% of their audience by insisting that things are fine the way they are.
#7 Edited by Devilb0y (131 posts) -

I actually think in some instances games are too reluctant to use cutscenes.
 
The reasons I initially got excited about Dragon Age II was because it was introducing a named and only marginally customisable character which (I thought) would lead to hugely cinematic and hugely awesome cutscenes like the ones we see in Mass Effect. The original Dragon Age could have been improved significantly in my oppinion if I'd have actually felt like my character meant something to the world and it's really hard to achieve that if you're unable to include the occasional cinematic.
 
That said, I think over use of them is a terrible thing and just makes me look for something else to do. Case in point: I've just finished the new Medal of Honour and have decided that I am getting really tired of the: 'BOOM - screen blacks out - high pitched humming - muffled voices - colleagues standing above you - dragged to safety - YOU'RE BACK IN THE FIGHT' kind of micro-cutscene that FPS's have been using for the last 4 years ad nauseum. They worked fantastically when they were first introduced (and before anyone says anything I appreciate that MOH isn't a great game) but it felt like in MOH and also in Black Ops these kind of events were happening twice a mission, and they lost impact accordingly. You can only be stuck in a last stand with no hope of rescue only to get saved by some helicopters at the last moment so many times before last stands cease to mean anything. 
 
Side note: best cutscene in any game ever for me is where Shepard takes command of the Normandy for the first time and you get to give the interactive speech. Kick. Ass.

#8 Edited by Devilb0y (131 posts) -
@allworkandlowpay said:

@Devilb0y said:

@allworkandlowpay: Dude, come on. Don't build up a straw man argument so you can ignore the actual point of the post. Yes, there are decent female protagonists in gaming but they are few in comparison to terrible ones and even fewer in comparison to their male counterparts. I'm not having a go mate, but it's clear that this is a big problem in the games industry and on the internet as a whole and acting like it isn't because the argument hasn't been put eloquently enough just exacerbates things. Personally I cannot wait for the internet to grow the fuck up. Having played as a female character I can say from experience that the reaction to them is normally something along the lines of 'BOOBS!', and although single player games are better they still have a long, long way to go.

I just picked a double bakers dozen worth of main game protagonists. Yes there aren't as many as say male protagonists, but the audience is 80 percent male, what do you expect? What I'm trying to say is that there are PLENTY of strong female leads that don't conform to those stereotypes, and in fact, I'd say despite your sensationalist mindset, if you look out there objectively, beyond some fighting games and stupid games of the late 90s, you'd rarely find those stereotypes in games as profoundly today as you would 5 years ago.

Its a sensationalist claim without substance, and the fact that I scrolled through 8 pages of people responding to the topic with examples of the many strong female protagonists, only to have them picked apart without merit by the TC, just shows how shallow the argument really is.

EDIT: Also, non-obscene nudity is not the same as sexualized. There is a major difference between an artful scene that ends up building tension and/or character and pornography of grindhouse obscenity. Dead or Alive girls are sexualized, Madison is not.

I'm not going to say that the argument has been made well because, as you've said, I don't really need to read through 8 pages of people saying 'Samus is great' to know that this discussion has been rather one sided. But, to use your logic, what do you expect when it's 5 to 1 against?
 
I do find some of the examples given strange though. Jill Valentine was most definitely sexualised when it wasn't really necessary, as was every following female lead in the RE series (with the possible exception of Claire in RE:2). OK most of their male leads are pretty simplistic as well so at least Capcom are consistant, but Jill's portrayal (particularly in RE:1) is actually pretty offensive given she's supposed to be some special forces bad-ass.
 
I'm not going to go through the lists provided saying which protagonists I agree with and which I don't, and I acknowledge that gaming has gotten a LOT better since the 90s in this respect, but we're not there yet and it's naive to think we are. It's not being sensationalist to say that games developers still frequently fall back on 'Make her hot' character design. Ok, we've established that they do the something similar for male leads a lot of the time but at least they don't get pigeon-holed into a fairly offensive stereotype.
 
And speaking as a connoisseur, a shower scene is very rarely character-building. They didn't need to show her naked if they wanted to build tension or reference Hitchcock - they certainly didn't with Beardy McBearderson when he takes one in the tutorial (can't remember the protagonist in Heavy Rain's name now). I'm not complaining, I'm just saying that that scene was at least partially designed to titilate.
#9 Edited by Devilb0y (131 posts) -
@allworkandlowpay: Dude, come on. Don't build up a straw man argument so you can ignore the actual point of the post. Yes, there are decent female protagonists in gaming but they are few in comparison to terrible ones and even fewer in comparison to their male counterparts.
 
I'm not having a go mate, but it's clear that this is a big problem in the games industry and on the internet as a whole and acting like it isn't because the argument hasn't been put eloquently enough just exacerbates things.
 
Personally I cannot wait for the internet to grow the fuck up. Having played as a female character I can say from experience that the reaction to them is normally something along the lines of 'BOOBS!', and although single player games are better they still have a long, long way to go.
 
EDIT: Also, Madison Paige from Heavy Rain not sexualised? Quick question: what's the first thing you do with that character? (Hint: it involves boobs).
#10 Posted by Devilb0y (131 posts) -

Uplink 2. It'll never happen, but a man can dream.