DevourerOfTime's forum posts

#1 Posted by DevourerOfTime (462 posts) -

Currently working on a big list of all the games I'm looking forward to like I do every year, but here's a spoiler.

#2 Posted by DevourerOfTime (462 posts) -

@zolroyce said:

@samfo said:

@devoureroftime said:

Ralph Baer will unfortunately pass, as we lose the father of video games.

Holy shitballs....

Woah, good catch, Jesus, I mean I suppose that it is easy to predict the death of someone who is up there in age, but that was really close to when it actually happened, crazy.

Not exactly something I'm proud that I predicted.... It was meant to be a sobering reminder that, hey, we're getting to the point where we are going to start losing the people who built this industry. Treasure them while they're still here. Obviously I was hoping that specific prediction wouldn't be true.

We are all sad for the loss of one of most important figures in the medium.

#3 Posted by DevourerOfTime (462 posts) -

@snail: I am chill. I'm not angry or sad or frustrated or anything.

Just bewildered.

His actions make no sense.

#4 Posted by DevourerOfTime (462 posts) -

This is some Dennis Dyack shit right here.

I didn't like the look of Jaffe's game. I never said anything bad about him. I never said anyone shouldn't buy it. I never insulted him. I said I didn't like it. Is he going to send Christmas cards to the bombcast crew telling them to go fuck themselves because they shat on it in the podcast?

Like, he's trying to win fans with shitting on message board posters. How is that actions an adult in charge of a studio takes and thinks "Yeah, this is good marketing for my game. This will really win people over. This is a good way to represent myself." If this was an off the cuff comment, then sure. Whatever. You don't like my game, then the "fuck off I don't care about you" stance is perfectly fine to keep your sanity when you're making a game, if a little blind.

But to put this in a video advertising your game? To link your game with being just a dick to people on message boards?

It's absurd, baffling behaviour that reminds me of a child.

I stand by my statement, by the way. Splatoon is a game that has an interesting cartoon art style, has new ideas within the genre, and generally looks like a fun game.

Drawn to Death looks like the same old shit with an art style that is hard to look at and has a premise that is somehow more juvenile, more childish than a game about squidkids jumping around in puddles with supersoakers.

#5 Posted by DevourerOfTime (462 posts) -

OH THANK GOD

I was worried this was going to interfere with school. This is PERFECT!

#6 Posted by DevourerOfTime (462 posts) -
#7 Edited by DevourerOfTime (462 posts) -

Considering how Unity ended up, I'm imagining this is the general reaction...

#8 Posted by DevourerOfTime (462 posts) -

@fminus said:

@devoureroftime said:

Spacebase, to me, was an experiment with a new business model in Double Fine's ever expanding search of ways of keeping afloat, which is what any good company should be doing instead of being complacent. They figured that the game would make X amount of dollars on Early Access, which would've successfully funded the game at their estimates. Then shit happened, as it always does in development. It probably wasn't a single thing that killed Spacebase, but a million cuts: higher than projected production costs, scope becoming too big, lower sales than expected from other games, lower sales in Early Access, misunderstanding of the extent of the game's completion within the consumer base leading to unfair negative buzz around the game (or, worse yet, no buzz), the wrong type of project to maintain interest on Early Access (which is clear now in our 20/20 hindsight), Broken Age taking up more of the company's resources than expected, etc. etc. etc.

If Spacebase had been developed in a traditional model, it would have just been a second game cancelled by Double Fine this year that no one got to see. It happens all the time.

I'm not saying people don't have the right to call them out for over-promising and under-performing, but I can understand 100% why Double Fine did everything they did with the project. it's unfortunate, but it happens.

Also on the "they should make a single project instead of multiple project" idea: Double Fine would be no more if they took that advice. Broken Age is already sucking more company resources than was expected. If they went all in on that game, for example, and it flopped, then they would be back where they were when Brutal Legend tanked.

Not putting all their eggs in one basket is how companies the size of Double Fine stay alive. Iron Galaxy, Capybara, Harmonix, TellTale, etc etc These once mid-size developers (or even AAA developers, in Harmonix's case) are surviving by making the most of their employees, by shifting them from team to team when each project is in different stages of production, by hitting a ton of different markets to see what sticks, by working with a wide variety of publishers on certain titles and developers as outsourcing work. This is the new face of the mid-size developer. You're never going to see Double Fine make a new Psychonauts or Harmonix make a new Rock Band unless some publisher gives them a massive budget that will cover the developer's ass if it doesn't sell well (for whatever reason).

Also, as an aside, Double Fine has been doing good work with their publishing side of their company. All the games they have been helping with have been fantastic and it's a great move to use their resource and fanbase to help much smaller indie devs (and themselves) find success. I don't know how much of a financial success it has been for them, but I think it's a great idea that will work out a lot better than Early Access for them.

A good question would be, why are they still taking money for Spacebase DF-9? I don't know in my eyes that's just stealing at this point, nowhere on Steam is it mentioned that it's put on hold (at least not on the first glance) and they are still having sales and what not. This all seems so wrong and sad it's beyond belief, it's like back in 90's people would be taking $20 bucks for shareware or demo version and never delivering the final product.

Also let's not cover our eyes, there's one or two man developer teams that deliver better, more polished games. It's time to size down for double fine if they can't sustain themselves and ride on peoples backs and their generosity for about 3 years now, or just disappear into obscurity, really, I wont shed tears, sad for the people who would need to look for jobs, but that's how the world works.

All that comes out of Tim are excuses over excuses.

Wow. Where to start with this one.

Well first off, the game is in a playable state from what I've seen of it, though not to the point where it was originally planned. I see no reason why it shouldn't be sold, though the asking price for what is there is far too high in my opinion and they should be more upfront about it's unfinished nature. Still doesn't prevent them from selling it though. I think it would actually be really cool if more companies would just say "Here's our failed projects. Check them out. Buy it for $5. See why we cancelled it and what potential it could have had." Would be an excellent teaching resource.

One or two developer teams would have got as far with this game in about 4+ years, 3 if they were booking it. Maybe. All depends on skill, experience, time, funds, etc. etc. I know quite a few developer duos who have been working on games of this similar scope and scale for 6+ years.

Kickstarter isn't about sustaining itself on the charity of others. It's about finding alternate ways of getting revenue to help fund a game (not completely fund a game, because making a game on most kickstarter budgets is laughable, even the ones Double Fine have run) that other means wouldn't allow (traditional publisher deal, angel investing, etc.). It's not even remotely charity. People are paying for the CHANCE for a product to exist and for you to own that product. The inherent risks of this as a consumer should be obvious, but it's pretty clear that people wrongly see it as either a store or as a donation service. When a project is canned, you aren't owed your money back. You took a risk when you put your money in and it didn't work out.

Early Access is similar. It's not charity or generosity to BUY a game in order to help fund it in the hopes that it would be completed. It's an alternate way of funding a game that, this time around, did not work out for them. It's similar to when a publisher recently backed out of one of their projects, except they A) didn't have to let people go B) the people involved in the Early Access are complaining that a risk they took didn't work out in their favour People who buy a game in Early Access aren't owed a full game in return. You are buying an early product, an unfinished product, a product that some day may never be finished. If you're not okay with that, then don't buy Early Access games.

I knew that someone was going to get a bunch of backlash from Kickstarter and Early Access from people who don't understand what they're getting into when they throw their money around. It's unfortunate that Double Fine got hit by both of these.

#9 Edited by DevourerOfTime (462 posts) -

@verysexypotato said:

@devoureroftime said:
@yothatlimp said:

@devoureroftime said:

Do not understand the hate for Double Fine in the comments. I'm happy with how the Kickstarter has gone (and how the Massive Chalice kickstarter has gone!) and have enjoyed their last few releases.

Don't really understand how the stick managed to wiggle up so many people's butts.

Yeah, these bitter comments are kind of nutty.

Yeah, you can really tell a lot of people on here don't understand how game development works. Double Fine in the past few years has shown a great deal of transparency in their development process, which has both educated a lot of people and also made some into armchair project leads who have no idea what they're talking about.

Yeah, all this hate is completely bizarre to me. I hope that Tim and the crew over there expected a number of consumers that would never understand the hurdles and insanity of development.

You'll notice that a lot of people compare DF to Telltale or any number of other devs who's development process are 100% behind the the curtain, and from seeing all this backlash, with good reason! DF may be late delivering a product, but for the price that I and many other KS backers paid, we are almost getting triple our return. This is INSANE. At any other company this project would have been greenlit, kept silent until a delivery date could be loosely confirmed, announced to the public (if a publisher felt it was worth not killing at this stage,) then either forced to release unfinished/buggy or delayed anyway.

I don't think that DF should be devoid of criticism, I think they totally botched it with SpaceBase. But the types of complaints I see being thrown at them tells me how very little some still understand the process. "They're bleeding money," every studio is always bleeding money. "Maybe they should only work on one project at a time." You take the jobs you have to so you can take the jobs you want to. You'll notice Telltale released Law & Order Legacies while they were working on Puzzle Agent, Walking Dead, and Back to the Future. Unless you're a AAA dev-house, you don't work on ONE project. It's not financially viable. And their smaller projects to keep the company afloat are all original IPs, whether coming internally or publishing someone elses small project. Not shovelware tied to a massive property (though I would LOVE to see a DF-made Guardians of the Galaxy...)

My main point is that DF is an imperfect wonderland where original content gets made by people who give a shit about making it, and they get it all on camera for us (though I don't know that's always the best idea.) Sometimes it totally fails, and that's the cost of being able to take as many independent risks as they do. I'm so glad they exist and I'm going to continue to support their insanity indefinitely because I think the industry is made better with a company like this.

Totally agree with you. In a world of yearly AAA releases (assassin's creed, CoD) that release completely broken even with budgets of hundreds of millions of dollars I applaud a small independent team tackling projects that they love and trying to create a market for them. They are definitely not above criticism, but like everyone else in the crowdfunding space they are figuring it out as they go along. For a fraction of what this years Call of Duty cost I have Part 1 of Broken Age, many polished hours of an honest look at the struggles of being a mid sized independent studio as well as Part 2 to look forward to.

Spacebase was a bummer, so much wasted potential there.

Spacebase, to me, was an experiment with a new business model in Double Fine's ever expanding search of ways of keeping afloat, which is what any good company should be doing instead of being complacent. They figured that the game would make X amount of dollars on Early Access, which would've successfully funded the game at their estimates. Then shit happened, as it always does in development. It probably wasn't a single thing that killed Spacebase, but a million cuts: higher than projected production costs, scope becoming too big, lower sales than expected from other games, lower sales in Early Access, misunderstanding of the extent of the game's completion within the consumer base leading to unfair negative buzz around the game (or, worse yet, no buzz), the wrong type of project to maintain interest on Early Access (which is clear now in our 20/20 hindsight), Broken Age taking up more of the company's resources than expected, etc. etc. etc.

If Spacebase had been developed in a traditional model, it would have just been a second game cancelled by Double Fine this year that no one got to see. It happens all the time.

I'm not saying people don't have the right to call them out for over-promising and under-performing, but I can understand 100% why Double Fine did everything they did with the project. it's unfortunate, but it happens.

Also on the "they should make a single project instead of multiple project" idea: Double Fine would be no more if they took that advice. Broken Age is already sucking more company resources than was expected. If they went all in on that game, for example, and it flopped, then they would be back where they were when Brutal Legend tanked.

Not putting all their eggs in one basket is how companies the size of Double Fine stay alive. Iron Galaxy, Capybara, Harmonix, TellTale, etc etc These once mid-size developers (or even AAA developers, in Harmonix's case) are surviving by making the most of their employees, by shifting them from team to team when each project is in different stages of production, by hitting a ton of different markets to see what sticks, by working with a wide variety of publishers on certain titles and developers as outsourcing work. This is the new face of the mid-size developer. You're never going to see Double Fine make a new Psychonauts or Harmonix make a new Rock Band unless some publisher gives them a massive budget that will cover the developer's ass if it doesn't sell well (for whatever reason).

Also, as an aside, Double Fine has been doing good work with their publishing side of their company. All the games they have been helping with have been fantastic and it's a great move to use their resource and fanbase to help much smaller indie devs (and themselves) find success. I don't know how much of a financial success it has been for them, but I think it's a great idea that will work out a lot better than Early Access for them.

#10 Posted by DevourerOfTime (462 posts) -

@devoureroftime said:

Do not understand the hate for Double Fine in the comments. I'm happy with how the Kickstarter has gone (and how the Massive Chalice kickstarter has gone!) and have enjoyed their last few releases.

Don't really understand how the stick managed to wiggle up so many people's butts.

Yeah, these bitter comments are kind of nutty.

Yeah, you can really tell a lot of people on here don't understand how game development works. Double Fine in the past few years has shown a great deal of transparency in their development process, which has both educated a lot of people and also made some into armchair project leads who have no idea what they're talking about.